2014 Offensive Line Thread

[elkabong82]

One more thing. Gruden is having the line bulk up and the blocking schemes won't be the exact same as last season so that means 1 of 2 possibilities for the OL and for Chester and Polumbus. Either they still perform poorly or they improve. But that change to the OL could be a big help, not to mention the change to the offense and RG3 being 100%. I point this out because getting overpowered was one of the weak points for the OL last season. Obviously still hope the right side is different week 1 than right now.

[TSO]

I honestly can't take anything out of what Gruden said. I don't think he's going to "bench" Chester, or Polumbus for that matter, before any practices and before anyone else beats him. How many coaches at this time of year are foolish enough to name starters that weren't starting the year before, especially when the incumbent is still on the team? That would essentially be telling Gettis/Rib/Compton/Hurt that they don't have to work for the right to start. 

 

I'll start worrying when I see both Polumbus and Chester starting every preseason game. Unless they just dominate in them, lol. 

[HuhWHATdefense]

I would be willing to bet that isn't our starting lineup. I think we will sign a few guys and draft a guy or two and then you have the udfa's.

I don't think Polumbus remains our starter, at least I hope not. I like him for depth but not as our starting RT

[HuhWHATdefense]

I forgot about Chester. I think we will have better starters on the right side of the line this season. We need a good,mean Oline.

[RemoveSnyder]

Gruden confirmed earlier that Lauvao would be our LG, Lich C and Chester RG.

 

Still doesn't make sense when you look at all the factors.

 

Why bring in a free agent, who most recently played (started) at RG, to not play RG?

Why say that our worst o-line player last year, Chester (RG), is slated as the #1 depth chart RG?

Why state that LG is plugged as well as RG plugged, prior to the Draft, other than misdirection?

 

Why try to minimize LG, specifically concerning the Draft, when most of the guys people are really looking at already play LG or will slide one spot over to play LG?

 

These guys be playing LG:

Z. Martin

Bitonio

Su'a-Filo

 

- And based upon the fact that Lauvao came from cleveland's Zone scheme, had a farily good Agility Score coming out of Arizona State, both Bitonio and Su'a-Filo are definately top "fits," for us.

 

Not to mention that both guys hit with pop, can pull and blast, aren't limited to just screening guys like shanny's zone stretch. Both would have to be priority guys for us, 2nd round selections, if we wanted them, if they were even available. 

 

Bitonio probably lasts a little bit longer than Su'a-Filo come draft day.

...

Even when folks talk about the less than athletic type guys:

C. Richardson

G. Jackson

B. Thomas

 

- They be playing LG as well.

...

Even the later round guys who fit the more athletic Zone mold:

C. Leno

 

- For his size he's likely to slide one spot over from LT to LG, just like Bitonio.

...

I mean, when people actually mention these players names, do they realize what position they already play?

 

- For example, C. Rich already plays LG, people understand that right?

...

 

In the draft, the number of draftable, legit Day 1 guys, as well as the total bulk number of LGs, outnumbers RGs heavily. To try and indicate that LG is being plugged by the new free agent and that last year's worst o-line guy is still set at RG sounds like diversionary stuff.

 

Even if the statement was totally true and some element of the personnel group said: "hey we want to see Lauvao back at LG, like he was at Arizona State," then why wouldn’t that same sentimentality apply to this crop of guards in the draft?

 

Why (potentially) draft a guy who already plays LG (or LT) to just switch him over to RG?

Especially if you're talking about an early selection like Bitonio.

 

You have to draft Bitonio in the 2nd round, I believe. IF the org actually did draft him, his natural fit would be LG, mostly do to his size and likewise the obvious reason, the guy already at LT for us.

 

Bitonio (just an example) would slide one spot over from LT to LG, an easier transition than switching to the right side where his stance would be staggered differently, his weight would be shifted opposite, his hands opposite alignment, introducing a new biomechanical element, etc.

 

That's where already having a guy who has played RG in the NFL (Lauvao) comes in handy of you are trying to plug the vapid hole at RG (chester).

 

It just makes sense to keep a guy on the side he's familiar with, not to mention, if you use a priority draft pick on this guy (like an early 2nd) you obviously expect the guy the start - at least for this team.

 

To try and jack that up by making the early round selection switch position isn't the ideal set-up.

 

^That stuff right there is just basic, doesn’t need to be said, type stuff. So, again, I'm at a loss for why folks think shifting guys around is somehow an answer.

 

Like I said, LG outnumbers RG in the Draft, extremely. Lauvao played RG in cleveland. Our liability on the o-line was Chester at RG.

 

Whenever someone in here says hey let's get this guy ...... for guard, more often than not that guy played LG in college or LT and can easily slide one spot over.

 

I mean, even if what Grudes said was totally the lock-step mindset of the org, totally transparent, why even say it now?

 

Obviously it's to get people wondering about their targets.

 

You either accept it as truth and therefore you don't think that LG has any priority in the Draft for the Skins. You either accept that it's a lie, diversionary, and they do have LG targeted.

 

The idea is get other teams wondering about who the Skins might target.

 

If you believe that the team really won't look at a priority LG then you basically have to look at who would be a fit for RG, and that pool of players is less abundant. You either think they still want to target LG and are feigning the importance, then that pool gets a lot bigger.

 

And in general you can earmark many more guys in the 3rd or 4th round.

 

A 4th round guy for me is M. Schofield. But, I actually like him at RT, or that's to say I'd like to keep him there at his natural position.

 

While I know he could slide over to RG, the fact that he held his own in pass protection while at Michigan as well as reaffirmed it at the Senior Bowl, that's the kind-of guy I'd like to come in and compete at RT. He's got familiarity with the position. I like to keep a guy at his position if he can handle the step up.

 

Or, just the simple fact that so much over analysis goes into trying to figure out what the Skins are planning for with offensive line that you overlook the fact that they still have plenty of need in the WR department.

 

Whatever ... Daniel Jeremiah (sp) always reiterates that this time of year is lying season. To say anything to the media, to actively come out and say anything specific, is just to twist tails.

 

It could be the truth, but the truth will have the high-level espionage folks of other organizations running down 10 different tangents and 10 different extrapolations based upon those simple little words.

 

But as I said, the simplest explanation is probably the most likely.

[knighthonor]

I still not liking the support behind the line for offense. I feel more focus should be done on both lines actually.

[markmills67]

Can we make the June cuts at any time or do we have to wait until June?. Maybe the Skins a waiting to see how Polumbus and Chester do at mini camp, and if not designate them as June cuts saving us at least 7m cap space.

[RandyHolt]

How much will Chesters hurries count drop if RG3 gets rid of the ball sooner, taking the extreme example, like Peyton. 50%? 

 

Dare I think he will be get rid of the ball sooner this year. QBs don't always have to hold the ball longer on deep patterns either, RG3 can loft the ball.

 

Our offense was a complete disaster last year to start games, so everything the coaches were preaching and teaching, failed. Their approach to how defenses would attack us, was a disaster. Every facet of the team was a disaster. 

 

Allen may not have had reason to can Chester yet but he found a reason to can his neighbor, for less cap room IIRC. Yet we seem much deeper at G, and added a RG. 

 

If Chester is truly the worst the entire NFL knows it including Gruden and Brown, and the entire smoke and mirror of early spring talk is then laughable.

 

Yet still, he remains on the roster. He was fine just 2 seasons ago. Maybe he was injured all year, like Kerrigan who gets a free pass. Oh, oh he was injured.  All forgotten with the like of a post. 

 

These guys are injured much of the year IMO, its all to varying degrees. Look at how Mike handled RG3s injuries. It was a complete circus. 

 

Let me be the first to say if he can play like he did in 2012 in camp and preseason, he will be starting. 

 

A new look

 

Trent | Lauvao | Gettis | Chest | Compton

[KDawg]

Okay, so, I've watched bits and pieces of the season, and I'll continue to do so...

 

But so far some trends I've noticed:

 

-Chester doesn't get beat as often as I perceived him to. But when he does, he gets beat badly. (This could change with more film).

 

-Trent Williams can be lazy as hell. There's plays where he's barely in a stance. And other plays where he's late off the ball. As good as he is (and he is good) his laziness hurts him sometimes. He seems to play better against better players (and by play better, I mean less lazy).

[Boss_Hogg]

 

-Trent Williams can be lazy as hell. There's plays where he's barely in a stance. And other plays where he's late off the ball. As good as he is (and he is good) his laziness hurts him sometimes. He seems to play better against better players (and by play better, I mean less lazy).

 

Hopefully this will change with the new regime. Trent couldn't have been the only nonchalant player on the 2013 squad. 

[pjfootballer]

Wasn't it mentioned that part of the reason Monty was let go was because is line calls weren't great? That could be part of the reason Chester regressed. As far as we know, he wasn't hurt.

[KingGibbs]

Okay, so, I've watched bits and pieces of the season, and I'll continue to do so...

 

But so far some trends I've noticed:

 

-Chester doesn't get beat as often as I perceived him to. But when he does, he gets beat badly. (This could change with more film).

 

-Trent Williams can be lazy as hell. There's plays where he's barely in a stance. And other plays where he's late off the ball. As good as he is (and he is good) his laziness hurts him sometimes. He seems to play better against better players (and by play better, I mean less lazy).

Thanks Dawg. Curious to know how Monty truly fared. I'm guessing he fared well in straight up zone, but graded poorly otherwise????

[KDawg]

Thanks Dawg. Curious to know how Monty truly fared. I'm guessing he fared well in straight up zone, but graded poorly otherwise????

 

Haven't watched enough to get a true feel, to be honest.

 

One thing I did see a few times though was that Monty would get driven so far back at times that it opened two way goes for the guys the guards were blocking. If that's not just a rare occurrence and it's more of a trend, it explains the release of Monty and keeping Chester penciled in for now.

 

But again, I haven't watched enough to give a TRUE opinion on anything.

[KingGibbs]

Haven't watched enough to get a true feel, to be honest.

 

One thing I did see a few times though was that Monty would get driven so far back at times that it opened two way goes for the guys the guards were blocking. If that's not just a rare occurrence and it's more of a trend, it explains the release of Monty and keeping Chester penciled in for now.

 

But again, I haven't watched enough to give a TRUE opinion on anything.

The possibility of Monty being horrendous is what led to my suspicion as to why Chester wasn't released.

[RandyHolt]

My half hearted defense of Chester is to stimulate discussion and try to rationalize why he is listed on our roster.

 

One thing that recent posts just opened my eyes to, are presnap responsibilities.

 

Chester had the displeasure of having to be the eyes for the center, looking awkwardly back at RG3 over his left shoulder, as the defense does their last second adjustments.

 

I am no expert, but i watch a lot of games, and rarely see other guards doing that.

 

I feel safe in assuming looking away from your man / responsibility makes the job just that much harder, if even just a little.

 

Is that... Tuck? HIKE <whiff> 

[SonnyandSam]

Polumbus was not as bad as so many fans think he was last season. He was only average compared to other right tackles in the league but far better than his 2012 season. I suspect Gruden is anticipating more improvement this season. If not, Compton could push him for playing time, and there is always the possibility of finding a RT in the draft. Not much left in FA for any improvement.

 

Chester had a very poor year after a fairly decent 2012, especially in pass protection. Some of the blame could rest on the poor play of Montgomery. As others mentioned, Montgomery apparently did a very poor job with recognizing blitzes and calling out the blocking assignments. Chris Cooley mentioned this several times on his radio show. Guards are the first to look bad if they are told to go in one direction and the correct line call was to go in another. Can make a player look real bad. Which might also explain someone's observation (KDawg?) that he looked OK but when he looked bad, he really looked bad. Also, Skins have a lot of money tied up in Chester and his contract. May be a year or two before he gets dumped.

 

I thought Montgomery was a major part of the problem in pass pro last year. So much of the problem for Robert was the collapsing of the pocket from the interior. Chester and Steiger share blame here. But it looks like Gruden agreed since Monty is now gone.

 

Steiger at center. He started out as a center in college before playing guard. In the 2008 draft, he was generally considered the #4 center available when he was drafted by Denver in the 4th round (I think that's the right round). So that was what NFL scouts thought he was best suited for. Anchoring the center of the line is critical this year and pass pro is not something Lichtensteiger does particularly well. I have not seen him at center so I hope he does OK. Gettis joined RG3 in Arizona to snap the ball so maybe Gettis is being groomed for competition. He is small but anchors well according to John Keim. I would be happy if they sign de la Puente. He did a fine job in front of Drew Brees for the last couple years. Not a stud, but pretty good.

 

Shawn Lauvao at left guard. Gruden confirmed he was penciled in as the starter. But I get the sense from Gruden that there will be competition at every position. His contract certainly makes it look like he is set as the starter. Way too much money for a mediocre guard for my tastes. But all I know is what I have read on the internet. So we'll have to wait and see. Clearly, Gruden and the O line coach are not comfortable with LeRibeus after all the weight he put on last year before camp. We all saw his potential in 2012. Question is whether McDonalds is more important to him than starting in the NFL.

 

Trent Williams at Left Tackle. Lazy???? KDawg, I respect your opinion but.....when NFL coaches and scouts consider our LT to be one of the best in the NFL....I think calling him "lazy" is a little much. Can he improve and be more consistent? Sure. Every player can. But few in the league can dominate at the line of scrimmage and then get down the field to block LBers and CBs like he can.

 

And finally, Robert needs to own a lot of the breakdowns in the pass protection. He often held the ball too long or failed to throw the ball quickly or away. Just look at the difference in pass protection between the first 13 games and the last three games of the year. The ONLY difference was Kirk Cousins was your QB.....OK....yes the last three teams did not have exactly a fierce pass rush. But we played teams early in the year and they were often harassing Robert into sacks and bad interceptions also.

 

And we have not even mentioned the tight ends or some of the play calling by Kyle that also contributed to pass pro breakdowns.

 

I would bet Jay Gruden is going to place a premium of better protecting Robert and giving him better opportunities to get rid of the ball sooner. Of course, the receiving corp has to be improved to give him more reliable targets that Robert has confidence in.

 

That's my 2 cents.

My half hearted defense of Chester is to stimulate discussion and try to rationalize why he is listed on our roster.

 

One thing that recent posts just opened my eyes to, are presnap responsibilities.

 

Chester had the displeasure of having to be the eyes for the center, looking awkwardly back at RG3 over his left shoulder, as the defense does their last second adjustments.

 

I am no expert, but i watch a lot of games, and rarely see other guards doing that.

 

I feel safe in assuming looking away from your man / responsibility makes the job just that much harder, if even just a little.

 

Is that... Tuck? HIKE <whiff> 

 

Happens all the time for other teams. The guard is often the one signaling to the center when to snap the ball. Montgomery has to have his eyes on the DL and linebackers to call offensive line blocking. He can't do that and watch RG3 signal for the snap especially in loud stadiums. Hell, even at FedEx Field sometimes! LOL

[KDawg]

 

 

Trent Williams at Left Tackle. Lazy???? KDawg, I respect your opinion but.....when NFL coaches and scouts consider our LT to be one of the best in the NFL....I think calling him "lazy" is a little much. Can he improve and be more consistent? Sure. Every player can. But few in the league can dominate at the line of scrimmage and then get down the field to block LBers and CBs like he can.

 

 

Read what I said instead of reading into what I said.

 

He gets lazy in his stance, and he's not always the quickest off the ball. Against the Lions, for instance, he was tasked with taking a zone step to his left. The entire line had already taken their first step and had their second step in the air before Trent moved. Lichtensteiger then stepped on Trent, Trent went down in a heap, and TW's assignment made the tackle in the backfield.

 

Keep in mind the key there... I didn't say he was a bad player. Nor did I say I don't like him. Trent Williams is an absolute stud. That doesn't absolve him from error or protect him from criticism.

 

I'd take him on my team ten out of ten times. Doesn't mean he's perfect.

[Thekyle1591]

Interesting, thanks for posting

I am curious if there is conversation factor, such as 1 sack = 3 hurries, or 2 knockdowns type of thing.

We often hear and judge most players offense and defense by sacks / allowed. Sacks appear weighed more heavily.

The methods of allowing these stats is taken into consideration in their overall pass protection grade. So for example, if griffin holds the ball for 5 seconds and then Williams guy gets a sack, they wouldn't give him much of if any penalty. Their overall grades are:

Trent Williams- 23 overall, 2nd among tackles in pass pro and first in overall grade (run blocking+pass blocking+penalty)

Tyler Polumbus- 15.5 overall, 7th among tackles in pass pro and 19 in overall grade

Kory- 1.8 overall, 27 among guards and 33 in overall grade

Chester- -10 overall, 66 among guards and 49 in overall grade

So that sorta gives you an idea of how they ranked compared to their peers.

[Master Blaster]

As of now for me

Williams

Leribus

Gettis

Lauvao

Polumbus

 

 

I think OL will be

 

LT: Williams

LG: Lauvao

OC: FA/Draft pick

RG:  Gettis/Draft pick

RT:  Draft pick

 

 

 

I am elated neither of you has any say on this in the real world.

"Gruden analyzes Redskins' offensive line"

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/6509/gruden-analyzes-redskins-o-line

[SonnyandSam]

 

Read what I said instead of reading into what I said.

 

He gets lazy in his stance, and he's not always the quickest off the ball. Against the Lions, for instance, he was tasked with taking a zone step to his left. The entire line had already taken their first step and had their second step in the air before Trent moved. Lichtensteiger then stepped on Trent, Trent went down in a heap, and TW's assignment made the tackle in the backfield.

 

Keep in mind the key there... I didn't say he was a bad player. Nor did I say I don't like him. Trent Williams is an absolute stud. That doesn't absolve him from error or protect him from criticism.

 

I'd take him on my team ten out of ten times. Doesn't mean he's perfect.

I read what you said. Did you? Here is what you wrote:

 

 

-Trent Williams can be lazy as hell. There's plays where he's barely in a stance. And other plays where he's late off the ball. As good as he is (and he is good) his laziness hurts him sometimes. He seems to play better against better players (and by play better, I mean less lazy)

 

You didn't say he was "lazy" once in a while or he gets "lazy" from time to time. The "lazy as hell" and "less lazy" against better players  pretty clearly implies a significant trait. I read what you wrote. If what you wrote is unclear, perhaps you should have been more careful with your words?

 

I would not characterize his slowness to move on the example you share as a sign of being lazy. He may have not heard the snap call; he may have forgotten the snap call; he may have forgotten what the hell to do momentarily; he may have been hurt on the prior play(s) which affected his ability to move quickly. I have no idea. But being slow off the ball is not "lazy" in my mind. Lazy is not putting forth much effort to accomplish is job. Nor would I use a handful of plays to characterize ANY player as lazy. That is a harsh judgement to make about a player.

 

If you were trying to convey he is far from perfect, I agree. But "lazy" is the wrong way to characterize what he needs to work on. I think a better word is he needs to work on his consistency....consistency to be great on every play; not just say 90 percent of the time (choose your own percentage.)

 

Having said all this, I think we are both on the same page about Trent. He is a excellent LT who can improve. But who can't?

[KDawg]

No. You didn't read what I what. You quote me as saying "lazy as hell". What I said was, "CAN be lazy as hell". It's clear and there.

[KingGibbs]

Clearly Dawg was saying he occasionally has the tendency to be lazy. Nothing more and nothing less.

[NIKKI8]

1. For what it's worth, last year when free agency first started, one of the insiders (JSteelz I think) tweeted a few times that Chris Chester was in danger of being released because BOTH his knees were shot. If that is true another season of wear and tear couldn't have made them any better.  

[Brokenstriker]

How much will Chesters hurries count drop if RG3 gets rid of the ball sooner, taking the extreme example, like Peyton. 50%? 

 

 

Probably not as much as Polumbus's and William's hurries do.  Interior rush tends to have the shortest/fastest path to the QB if they beat the G/C

[Est.1974]

Need to add McGlynn to the list now, a few teams were chasing him so he must be in the frame for a look at C/G