Dan T. Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Since we're probably going to be hearing a lot about the Seattle Seahawks' "12th Man" in the days ahead, here's an interesting bit of background on the term... To settle a dispute, in 2006 the Seattle Seahawks made a $100,000 lump sum payment to Texas A&M University in order to continue using "12th Man," which the school trademarked in 1990. Since then, they've paid the school $5,000 per year to continue to use the term. The original agreement was for 5 years. In 2011, the Seahawks opted to renew the agreement for another 5 years. The link below provides a bit more background, along with language of the original agreement between the school and the Seattle Plagiarizers ... er, Seahawks. http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2014/1/19/5271954/12th-man-trademark-licensing-agreement-texas-am-aggies-seattle-seahawks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Well, we had to let Dallas in the league in order to keep using our fight song, so I guess you do what you have to do to keep the fans happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You mean to tell me the term "12 Man" is trademarked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 So, will Seattle unretire number 12 after 2016? A&M should've asked for more than 5K per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetAlfred Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 So, will Seattle unretire number 12 after 2016? A&M should've asked for more than 5K per year. LMAO yeah, who wears their #12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You mean to tell me the term "12 Man" is trademarked? you've heard the story of how 12th man came about from A&M right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 So, will Seattle unretire number 12 after 2016? A&M should've asked for more than 5K per year. When the old agreement expires in 2016, they should ask for a percentage of merchandising proceeds as a condition of any renewal agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 In 2016 they'll rename the '12th Man' to the '2 Overhangs.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHeyHey Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 5k? That's it? Dan T. is right, go after a portion of 12th Man merchandise sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Stadium design should get more credit than the fans, especially since they pump noise in as well. Every time 12th man gets bragged about there it comes across like a roided up baseball player bragging about hitting more HRs. Most know without the edge they'd just be average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Stadium design should get more credit than the fans, especially since they pump noise in as well. Every time 12th man gets bragged about there it comes across like a roided up baseball player bragging about hitting more HRs. Most know without the edge they'd just be average. Unless they figured in the being-a-douchebag-factor....then they're definitely #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclops Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I hate how they claim it as their own even though A&M started this back in the 20s... Moronic Seattle fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So, will Seattle unretire number 12 after 2016? A&M should've asked for more than 5K per year. LMAO yeah, who wears their #12 The fans wear it. In 1983, the Seahawks retired the number 12 in honor of the fans (several years before A&M bothered to trademark it). That settlement with A&M represents a huge legal win for the Seahawks. During the lead-up to the Super Bowl, A&M filed an injunction with an Aggie judge to stop using the term entirely. Aggies everywhere didn't want Seattle to use the term at all. Unfortunately for them, their position was indefensible, so they took a settlement for peanuts. The only reason the Seahawks agreed to it in the first place, rather than fighting it, was so they could use "12th Man" again without any delay. Now, it's much cheaper to pay $5K per year than to A&M than to do anything else about it in court. It won't be long before another team takes A&M to court over the right to use the term "12th Man" in an NFL context, and when they do, A&M will lose. Before any panties get too knotted up, I will note that "12th Man" is something that Redskins fans have used, as have Broncos fans, Bears fans, Bills fans, etc. It isn't something the Seahawks "stole" from A&M, it's something that originated with A&M that grew to have a generic meaning long before A&M did anything to trademark it. Do we make a huge deal out of it? Absolutely. We have for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poman Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Before any panties get too knotted up, I will note that "12th Man" is something that Redskins fans have used, as have Broncos fans, Bears fans, Bills fans, etc. The fans using it, as compared to a team using it for marketing purposes, is vastly different. To counter your next argument: The term has been used by various American football teams including the NFL's Seattle Seahawks, Green Bay Packers, Buffalo Bills, Denver Broncos,Washington Redskins, Indianapolis Colts, and Chicago Bears in marketing practices in reference to their supporters, though many stopped using the term "12th man" at the request of Texas A&M. Other teams stopped using the term at the request of A&M. The seahawks did not, and now they pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 The point I was trying to make was that the term "12th Man" in common use hasn't been exclusively in reference to A&M's home crowd for a very long time. It is a term that has come to mean any team's home crowd, as evidenced by the fact that so many other fan bases use it about themselves. Since that is the case, it is silly to feign moral outrage about the Seahawks "plagiarizing" the term. It is also silly as a Redskins fan to draw a distinction between fans & fan organizations using the term for themselves, and teams using the term, and then implying it's somehow worse for a team to use it as a means to put down the Seahawks and not the Redskins. Unless you think the Redskins 12th Man touchdown flags were done without the team's knowledge or consent... Regarding your other point -- yes, other teams were asked to stop using "12th Man" before the Seahawks' licensing agreement, and they did indeed stop using it. However, in my opinion, that will change within the next few years. Other teams are going to want to use it, and so one (or more) of them will end up taking on A&M in court. And when that happens, I believe A&M will lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poman Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 It is also silly as a Redskins fan to draw a distinction between fans & fan organizations using the term for themselves, and teams using the term, and then implying it's somehow worse for a team to use it as a means to put down the Seahawks and not the Redskins. Unless you think the Redskins 12th Man touchdown flags were done without the team's knowledge or consent... I wasn't implying anything. Simply responding to you posting pictures of the Redskins using 12th man symbols in their marketing. The Redskins did it, but stopped when A&M asked them to. The seahawks wished to keep using it, and now pay for what is basically a license. That's fine. The seahawks believe that is part of who they are, so they pay the fee. I couldn't care less. If the seahawks want to use it, then use it. It doesn't change the fact that the seahawks are paying to use a term trademarked by Texas A&M, and other NFL teams do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 you've heard the story of how 12th man came about from A&M right? What's the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 A&M was playing a game and players were getting injured and dropping like flies. They were down to 11 players -- one more injury and they'd have had to forfeit the game. A guy in the announcers booth had been on the team, so he went and suited up, just in case. He never actually played in the game, but he was forever immortalized as the "12th Man." (A slight misnomer, since he was actually the "Roster+1 Man", but that isn't as catchy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanoker Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 BT - Very interesting origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Here's a source article telling the story: http://www.hornsports.com/docs/aggy/DMN_Jul_16_1942.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.