alexey Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 http://www.amazon.com/Caught-The-Pulpit-Leaving-Belief-ebook/dp/B00GYGF5B8 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19013078-caught-in-the-pulpit What is it like to be a preacher who can no longer believe the creed? In confidential interviews, clergy reveal how their lives of service are overshadowed by hypocrisy, as they contemplate taking a leap from their faith. As religious leaders struggle to adapt to the new transparency of the information age, the phenomenon of non-believing clergy portends surprising developments in the future of religious belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 is this as new to you as the existence of the Christian Left? throughout history religious leaders have struggled with faith and doubts....it tends to happen the more you affirm or proclaim.(or when life throws hard fast ones at ya head) those that believe in ,or affirm, little have less room for doubt or hypocrisy. there are also those that view it as a job rather than a calling,which is starting on the wrong foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 He loves to grasp at straws. "Here's the end of Christianity!" The stories of people leaving chosen careers is legion. Investment bankers leaving their careers to open a bakery. Lawyers leaving to become writers. Heck, even atheists find God once in à while. The premise of the book is facile: person realizes what he have his life to, he no longer believes in. And let it not be missed that, as one of the reviewers points out, that the authors want to point out that due to the small sample size that there is no scientific validity to what they write. A collection of anecdotes as best? My sister in law put her kids on a special diet to cure him of ADHD, it's based on a sample size of one child. I'm not even joking. Anyway, its silly to try to bash religion, with your usual I implement of science, when the source itself admits to not even being scientific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 is this as new to you as the existence of the Christian Left? LoL! It's like he's found a new toy. Almost as cute as when the world discovered the secret Gnostic gospels that have been hidden for 2,000 years that unbelievably had been know and written about the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Five pages later this will be a thread of alexey and PeterMP arguing about the existence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Five pages later this will be a thread of alexey and PeterMP arguing about the existence of God. Actually they'll be arguing about the definition of yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 This is a book about a research project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Actually they'll be arguing about the definition of yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 There is a reason that there is an old saying like this: "if you can be content with doing any other profession besides pastoral ministry, DO IT!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 There is a reason that there is an old saying like this: "if you can be content with doing any other profession besides pastoral ministry, DO IT!" They said the same basic thing about both of the professions I've been in, and it appears to be a sentiment applicable to anyone who deals with talking to a lot of people as part of their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 They said the same basic thing about both of the professions I've been in, and it appears to be a sentiment applicable to anyone who deals with talking to a lot of people as part of their work. Or putting up with a ton of petty BS on a continual basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Or putting up with a ton of petty BS on a continual basis. I have the ultimate respect for those that do, and prayed fervently never to be called. Church people be crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 It's hard work and it's even harder when people expect you to continue believing things that you no longer believe. I've heard some interviews, and some of the stories are heart breaking. People coming out as non-believers and their communities turning on them, their spouses leaving them, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I have the ultimate respect for those that do, and prayed fervently never to be called. Church people be crazy After 12 years serving as a pastor I can tell you in all seriousness that is not for everyone. I read an article recently that listed the seven of the biggest stress factors in the life of a pastor, my wife and I recognized very clearly six of the seven in our own lives in ministry. It has a powerful effect over the long term. The one thing that I noticed about my time as a pastor is that the church culture changed me more than I ever changed it. A fact that is both frustrating and drepeessing at the same time.That said, my faith is fully in tact and I am more firmly committed to my calling serve Christ in ministry through missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I read an article recently that listed the seven of the biggest stress factors in the life of a pastor, my wife and I recognized very clearly six of the seven in our own lives in ministry. It has a powerful effect over the long term. Funny, in reading those they are the same issues I have in running a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Funny, in reading those they are the same issues I have in running a business. I had the same thought. Every job worth doing is tough, the priesthood is far from unique in this regard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I had the same thought. Every job worth doing is tough, the priesthood is far from unique in this regard Business owners and managers certainly share a lot,but the hired help tend to clock out It's hard work and it's even harder when people expect you to continue believing things that you no longer believe. I've heard some interviews, and some of the stories are heart breaking. People coming out as non-believers and their communities turning on them, their spouses leaving them, etc. expectations are inherent in leadership positions,especially from ministers.,,,as they should be are these examples guilty of deception?.....honesty is rather important in both spiritual leaders and marriages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Business owners and managers certainly share a lot,but the hired help tend to clock out I think the thing that bothered me the most about being a pastor was the way that the church has turned into a business in an industry, specifically an entertainment and recreation industry. I honestly felt more like a cruise ship director than someone in ministry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 that does seem a trend nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 are these examples guilty of deception?.....honesty is rather important in both spiritual leaders and marriagesHonesty only works with acceptance. It is a rather tragic dilemma if being honest about your faith in the creeds means having your loved ones turn away from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Honesty only works with acceptance. It is a rather tragic dilemma if being honest about your faith in the creeds means having your loved ones turn away from you. are they turning away from you or your lies? requiring acceptance of something counter to creeds/doctrines is foolishness in the same manner requiring acceptance of infidelity in a marriage would be. lying,deceit and expectation of acceptance in spite of them is asking a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 requiring acceptance of something counter to creeds/doctrines is foolishness in the same manner requiring acceptance of infidelity in a marriage would be. lying,deceit and expectation of acceptance in spite of them is asking a bit much. So the person behind the pulpit has to continuously inform everybody of whatever thoughts and doubts they may have, this way they will be accepted if/when they realize they no longer believe the creed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 So the person behind the pulpit has to continuously inform everybody of whatever thoughts and doubts they may have, this way they will be accepted if/when they realize they no longer believe the creed? That seems excessive ...... where would you say the line between entertaining doubt and active deceit lies? if you realize you no longer believe something that must be affirmed in your position are you not culpable if you continue? speaking for myself, once I realized I could not longer affirm completely abstaining from alcohol I removed myself from positions in the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 As you said earlier, for many it's a job as much as a calling. If your pastor is doing a good job of fulfilling his/her duties does it really matter what s/he believes as long as the flock doesn't know? After all, I doubt RGIII really likes Subway all that much even though he's selling it. Besides, if your reaction is any indication of the sort of love and understanding one could expect, that's all the more reason to stay in the closet so to speak. Losing your job is bad enough. Losing many of your friends and family on top of it would really suck. Try looking around you next Sunday. I'm sure there are plenty of your fellow parishioners who don't really buy into it all that much, just doing the dance to avoid the social stigma and preserve relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 One of the biggest trends we're seeing in the church is the ability to struggle rather than feigning certainty, however Gen-Xers are about the youngest generation that can handle pastors who themselves struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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