Grantland: What Really Went Wrong with Robert Griffin III

[Koolblue13]

Maybe one of the most talented players to come out of the draft in the last 20 years, just lost all of that talent, because his Dad and HC got into an argument once. That seems believable.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

A lot of guys that aren't any good.  It was not a good year by any stretch.  

 

I agree with you. But it does show that we need to give the kid more time to develop when you consider that two QB who have won three combined Super Bowls have authored similar or worse seasons:

 

And it's only rubbing salt in the wound for Ravens and Giants fans to note that, at least statistically, Griffin's 2013 season rates out better than all but two of Joe Flacco's six seasons, and that it took Eli Manning until his fifth season to have a better passer rating than the one Griffin managed this year — a year pretty much everyone declared "awful."

 

[RandyHolt]

RG3's numbers through 13 games were extremely similar to Luck, Wilson, Kap this year and Cam last year.

 

RG3: 60.1/3,203/16/12

Luck: 58.6/3,119/19/8

Wilson: 64.5/2,871/23/7

Kap: 57.2/2,487/16/8

Newton: 57.7/3869/19/12 (full-season)

 

So if RG3's numbers aren't good, then what about these guys?

 

It boggles my mind that he is deactivated and sorry to everyone if I sound like a broken record.

 

If Mike wants to see Cousins, great. Just tell us, and let RG3 be the backup.

 

He would be no more a distraction to Cousins as Cousins is to him day in and day out.

 

It is almost unthinkable to deactivate him "for his own good."  Is there a comparable QB heck any starter that has been deactivated like this?

 

But hey, according to our former coach, Mike is the best coach.

[MattFancy]

I saw INTs, but fumbles weren't included.   I don't know this for certain, but I'd be willing to guess RG3 leads the league in fumbles.  I know he at least leads that group.  He's got 11, I think Wilson has 10, but then he's also got 23 TDs and fewer INTs. 

 

I'm sure you mean "nuances" rather than "nuisances".  lol

 

Well I'm sure he does have more fumbles than all 3. When you're a running QB, that tends to happen.

 

Looking at the fumble stats (includes all fumbles lost and recovered):

RG3 - 11

Wilson - 10

Luck - 5

Kap - 6

Newton (2012) - 10

 

So yeah 11 fumbles aren't good, but Wilson has 1 less and Cam was right there wih him last season. Again, all his numbers are comparable with the other young QBs.

 

Let's look at sacks too:

RG3 - 38

Wilson - 36

Kap - 34

Luck - 30

Tannehill - 51

Newton (2012) - 36

Newton (2013) -38

[justice98]

I agree with you. But it does show that we need to give the kid more time to develop when you consider that two QB who have won three combined Super Bowls have authored similar or worse seasons:

 

I doesn't disagree, I haven't written RG3 off, but whatever the reasons were, he just wasn't good.  I don't think missing the offseason explains everything.  It explains some.

[mojo]

I think it's clearly both.  For me though, the tie goes to the coach because the coach can pull the player.  If Griffin was really struggling in a way that it was killing the team then you take the PR hit and bench him before the team implodes and before the season is lost.

 

I agree.  And I think Shanny's biggest mistake was not being able to stand up to all the "All in for week 1" hype that surrounded the team in the preseason.  There's no way that RG3 was performing well enough in practice to warrant him to start against the Eagles.  I wonder how much Cousins preseason injury affected his thinking?

[frommd]

I think it is both. But, how could the coaches see this in practice and still play him.  

 

Regardless, the struggles this season are not all on the quarterback.  The defense and special teams are historically bad.  That falls on the person picking the personnel.

 

The Grantland article is great though and definitely sums things up nicely on RGIII.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I doesn't disagree, I haven't written RG3 off, but whatever the reasons were, he just wasn't good.  I don't think missing the offseason explains everything.  It explains some.

 

Sure, we won't really know if he'll bounce back until he does (or doesn't) and we won't probably ever know what factored into this season's performance. I'm guessing it was a combination of things, mostly on his end: recovery from injury (both physically and mentally), missing the off-season football-related activities while rehabbing, and some overconfidence or arrogance that he just needs to "be out there" to succeed. But, I don't know anything!

[justice98]

Well I'm sure he does have more fumbles than all 3. When you're a running QB, that tends to happen.

 

Looking at the fumble stats (includes all fumbles lost and recovered):

RG3 - 11

Wilson - 10

Luck - 5

Kap - 6

Newton (2012) - 10

 

So yeah 11 fumbles aren't good, but Wilson has 1 less and Cam was right there wih him last season. Again, all his numbers are comparable with the other young QBs.

 

Let's look at sacks too:

RG3 - 38

Wilson - 36

Kap - 34

Luck - 30

Tannehill - 51

Newton (2012) - 36

Newton (2013) -38

 

But like I said, Wilson has fewer INTs and more TDs, while he only has one less fumble, he makes up for it.  But RG3 is mostly fumbling it in the pocket, not when he's running, so the running QB argument doesn't wash.  And all those guys run around, for the most part.  Luck, Wilson, Newton, Kap don't run around?  They still put it on the ground less.  Newton only has 2 fumbles this year, BTW.

 

Tannehill's an outlier in terms of sacks.  Every other guy has fewer sacks in more games.  

 

But I'm not projecting or saying RG3 can't get better and next season won't be different, I'm talking about the here and now and what we just saw.  I'm not making any grand proclamation about what RG3 will do relative to those other guys, only what he has done this year in a snapshot.  And in that snapshot, I just don't think he's been as good.

[darrelgreenie]

It's funny how some people read the article and think it supports benching Griffin.

[RandyHolt]

I agree.  And I think Shanny's biggest mistake was not being able to stand up to all the "All in for week 1" hype that surrounded the team in the preseason.  There's no way that RG3 was performing well enough in practice to warrant him to start against the Eagles.  I wonder how much Cousins preseason injury affected his thinking?

Good post

 

But I think the Cousins injury was not in play. From all indications, Cousins was only limited a week or so. Even if Cousins could not go, we had Rex. Rex has been insurance all along. We even had Pat White, who may have struggled like mad in practice but held his own in preseason games, able to be the backup on game day. 

 

You would think Mike had learned after the Seattle game.  It became very clear to fans in game 1, 2 at the latest, that Robert could not even outrun the slowest players on defenses. If he keeps caving to Robert and his dads words, whose fault is that? 

 

Ask any player that is ailing if they want to give it a go, and they will all say yes. Across all sports.

 

Mike and RG3 just seem to be a bad fit.

[darrelgreenie]

Or read the article and ignore the points made.

It's like the article isn't even there and this thread is just a continuation of all the other threads...

[MattFancy]

But like I said, Wilson has fewer INTs and more TDs, while he only has one less fumble, he makes up for it.  But RG3 is mostly fumbling it in the pocket, not when he's running, so the running QB argument doesn't wash.  And all those guys run around, for the most part.  Luck, Wilson, Newton, Kap don't run around?  They still put it on the ground less.  Newton only has 2 fumbles this year, BTW.

 

Tannehill's an outlier in terms of sacks.  Every other guy has fewer sacks in more games.  

 

But I'm not projecting or saying RG3 can't get better and next season won't be different, I'm talking about the here and now and what we just saw.  I'm not making any grand proclamation about what RG3 will do relative to those other guys, only what he has done this year in a snapshot.  

 

And with the Newton only has  2 fumbles, who's to say RG3 can't get better at protecting the football? He has the least amonut of INTs of the bunch last year, so we know he can protect the football.

 

My whole point has been that his numbers are about what you'd expect from a 2nd year QB. They're not earth shattering like last season, but they're not awful. RG3 has a better QB rating than Flacco.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I saw INTs, but fumbles weren't included.   I don't know this for certain, but I'd be willing to guess RG3 leads the league in fumbles.  I know he at least leads that group.  He's got 11, I think Wilson has 10, but then he's also got 23 TDs and fewer INTs. 

 

I'm sure you mean "nuances" rather than "nuisances".  lol

Thank you for that

[StephenDavis]

As it pertains to the offseason program and training camp, what was he not able to do?  I know the article mentioned footwork.  But he was out there running sprints in the spring and doing all kinds of things, it's not like he wasn't able to do ANYTHING as his recovery progressed, particularly once OTA season hit.  I would think he'd have at least been able to work in footwork drills on the side.  He wasn't just standing around.

 

And the OTAs and minicamp consists of only a total of two weeks of organized activity, in separate 2-3 day chunks beginning in late May.  What specifically goes on in these OTAs that was so critical that he couldn't overcome it? 

 

Indeed.  We thought we had that last year, but it all went south.  

"What was he not able to do?" may not be the correct question to ask.  Even if he was able to drill footwork, the fact is the main thing on his mind was getting back to being 100% healthy.  No matter what work he put in, he had the cloud of coming back from injury over his head, which is not the same as being healthy and getting prepared for the season with no distractions.

[Bishop Hammer]

I dig the George Constanza refference. SERENITY NOW!

[darrelgreenie]

As it pertains to the offseason program and training camp, what was he not able to do?  I know the article mentioned footwork.  But he was out there running sprints in the spring and doing all kinds of things, it's not like he wasn't able to do ANYTHING as his recovery progressed, particularly once OTA season hit.  I would think he'd have at least been able to work in footwork drills on the side.  He wasn't just standing around.

 

And the OTAs and minicamp consists of only a total of two weeks of organized activity, in separate 2-3 day chunks beginning in late May.  What specifically goes on in these OTAs that was so critical that he couldn't overcome it? 

I agree 100%. I've said before the whole 'lost offseason' mantra is over stated. People forget that in May:

 

In August:

 

So I agree with you.

But I'm guessing you assign blame to Griffin?

 

I really don't assign 'blame' to anyone, because Griffin's play is a non-issue to me. Its a red herring.

Griffin's play imo does not warrant benching.

But being that Griffin has essentially been benched for performance health. Its a topic.

 

However; if a reason for Griffin's 'poor' performance is lack of development in the drop back passing game then I,like you, believe the lack of an offseason is a poor excuse because he did actually have an offseason.

As seen above Griffin was physically capable of working on that aspect of his game.

I question what were the coaches working on with Griffin during this time period?

How did they evolve the offense? Why wasn't Griffin working on 3-5-7 step drops IF that was the goal?

And I don't mean this as a grand indictment of Kyle, (So for those people out there don't create tag your narrative about Kyle to this post)

 

But the excuse about a 'lost offseason' cuts both ways because in as much as Griffin is unprepared or lacks development its on the coaches to have used the offseason for Griffin's development.

 

SUM:  Imho the 'lack of offseason' excuse is a blameshift for a situation that doesn't even warrant blame. And at the very least the blame is shared by the offensive coaching staff.

But I guess when you bench your QB for no real reason for performance for spite  for health there has to be a reason for the lack of performance that doesn't cast blame upon the coaching staff..... hence 'the lost offseason'

[War Paint]

I agree.  And I think Shanny's biggest mistake was not being able to stand up to all the "All in for week 1" hype that surrounded the team in the preseason.  There's no way that RG3 was performing well enough in practice to warrant him to start against the Eagles.  I wonder how much Cousins preseason injury affected his thinking?

I'm sure Cousins injury was factored in.  Cousins wasn't ready either, so it was either start Grossman or go with Robert, who was hellbent on starting.

[grego]

 

 

 

 

A REALLY, REALLY good read. I agree with pretty much everything he has to say about RG3. I belive all hope is not lost and he will come back better next season.

 

 

that was a good read. i feel like my football IQ jumped 10 points having read it. 

[Brokenstriker]

If only I could get some enjoyment out of reading and listening to people's opinions about "the single reason" the Redskins suck ... maybe I could fill some of the emptiness caused by the reality that my Skins suck.  Its amazing to me that anyone would think that the complete and comprehensive awfulness of the 2013 Redskins is because of a single factor.  I only give partial credit for this to those folks that aim at factors that could effect large portions or even all of the Redskins organization ... the GM/Coach and the Owner.  A football team is a complex organism ... machine ... or whatever your favorate imagery is.  There isn't one thing that is wrong ... there are many things that are wrong with the Redskins.  Fixing one of them doesn't fix the suck.

 

- Shanahan didn't destroy Griffin's knee, but he might have destroyed Griffin's ability to work with him ... or Griffin might not be able to work with a coach who doesn't do what Griffin wants to do ...

- 100% recovered doesn't mean Griffin will ever be as mobile, fast, quick, agile, rugged as he was before blowing his knee out ... for the second time.

- Griffin succeeded outside the pocket and struggled inside the pocket ... and he still does except he's not back to form re: playing outside the pocket either.

- The O'Line has weakness and strengths.  They zone block well but the zone runs need a passing threat to be effective.  They pass protect up to a point and suffer greatly if the QB holds the ball too long

- The D plays the run well and the pass OK as long as it can over-compensate and anticipate the play ... if not its not so good

- The Special Teams don't have the personnel to support any expectation of acceptable performance.  Period.

- The OC wants to run a scheme that has proven to work that the #1 QB isn't that good at.  Instead runs a scheme that the #1 QB was good at but hasn't returned to form (options), and seems to be pressured into running a scheme (drop back pocket) that the #1 QB hasn't yet learned how to do at an NFL level ... or doesn't have the receiver talent accross the board to succeed with ... or doesn't have enough time to execute ... or some/all of these

- The DC doesn't have the personnel to play it straight and has to gamble to have an effect.  When he guesses wrong its very bad.  As the game goes on the opposition discovers the personnel weakness in our D that best fits their strengths and they blow through the D for the rest of the game if they have any ability at all

- Old stars are past their prime and some are a couple games past their Use By date

- like most teams ... too many injuries except the skins don't have near starting quality back-ups in many positions

 

you could go on and on, I could too but why bother?

 

could the individuals getting the blame act, be or play better ... absolutely ... but seriously who does that not apply to?

 

The problem is the number of and range of problems ... large and small.  Good teams have carried these problems individually and in smaller numbers and overcome the impact.  There's just too many for the Skins to recover from with a single fix, or even 2 or 3.  Fact is they could probably be successful without fixing the ones everyone is talking about (Griffin, Shanahan, other Shanahan, Haslett) if they get the right solutions to the other problems.  The Hogs sent Rypien to Hawaii ... he was mediocre once he left them.  Gibbs I walked on water with ... how many hall of fame players?  I forgot.  Gibbs II was in over his head.  How many coaches have won with average to bad players in many starting positions?  I doubt there are many if any.  How many teams have won with QBs and OCs who weren't on friendly terms ... plenty I'm sure.

 

all this "it's Shanahan" ... "it's Griffin" crap is making me sick

[Koolblue13]

I wonder if all the people who liked my post earlier in this thread knew I was talking about Shanny. If not, ZING! Gotcha. ols

[PorkSkins]

The decision to put Griffin in at the beginning of this season will have long term effects.  You don't play yourself into shape with a knee injury.  Call it the Patrick Ramsey syndrome. I hope some of these posts are right but frankly I think the other side of the story is that defenses have exploited his weaknesses.  I still say that if he remains a running QB, he will be lucky to be a starter for more than six years.  Another running QB whose name I won't mention, has completed just one full season in his career without missing a game.  It's been a long time since we had stability at the QB position.  Right now we have two candidates and I hope we keep them both. 

[texasthunder]

Great article, and some really good follow up posts.

The stats are interesting, and also the stat where RGIII has more passing yards this year in 13 games, vs what he had last year in 15 games is interesting.

But the clear indicator is the kind of passes he didnt complete, and I am not referring to receiver drops.

I have watched Robert for 5 years now, and I cannot remember him ever missing receivers as bad as he has this year.

The fact that he is over throwing open receivers by a huge amount is disturbing. And I think it all comes back to what was said in the 

article, its bout footwork and body position.

I have no doubt that with the full off season he will bounce back and be the RGIII we need.

[justice98]

I agree 100%. I've said before the whole 'lost offseason' mantra is over stated. People forget that in May:

 

In August:

 

So I agree with you.

But I'm guessing you assign blame to Griffin?

 

I really don't assign 'blame' to anyone, because Griffin's play is a non-issue to me. Its a red herring.

Griffin's play imo does not warrant benching.

But being that Griffin has essentially been benched for performance health. Its a topic.

 

However; if a reason for Griffin's 'poor' performance is lack of development in the drop back passing game then I,like you, believe the lack of an offseason is a poor excuse because he did actually have an offseason.

As seen above Griffin was physically capable of working on that aspect of his game.

I question what were the coaches working on with Griffin during this time period?

How did they evolve the offense? Why wasn't Griffin working on 3-5-7 step drops IF that was the goal?

And I don't mean this as a grand indictment of Kyle, (So for those people out there don't create tag your narrative about Kyle to this post)

 

But the excuse about a 'lost offseason' cuts both ways because in as much as Griffin is unprepared or lacks development its on the coaches to have used the offseason for Griffin's development.

 

SUM:  Imho the 'lack of offseason' excuse is a blameshift for a situation that doesn't even warrant blame. And at the very least the blame is shared by the offensive coaching staff.

But I guess when you bench your QB for no real reason for performance for spite  for health there has to be a reason for the lack of performance that doesn't cast blame upon the coaching staff..... hence 'the lost offseason'

 

I can get with that.  I don't mean to look like I'm blaming RG3 totally, cuz there's plenty to go around.  I could go with a 34-33-33 % blame game between Mike, Kyle, Robert.  They all have their hands in this mess, but that's neither here nor there.  I just think this Shanahan offseason program has become stuff of legend.  And didn't Shanahan say RG3 was taking more reps in camp this year than the year before?  But missing two weeks of OTAs caused the whole season to go to hell?   There were certain things he couldn't work on, I respect that, but it's not like there weren't things he could work on.  And things that manifested as a problem during the season.  

[justice98]

Great article, and some really good follow up posts.

The stats are interesting, and also the stat where RGIII has more passing yards this year in 13 games, vs what he had last year in 15 games is interesting.

But the clear indicator is the kind of passes he didnt complete, and I am not referring to receiver drops.

I have watched Robert for 5 years now, and I cannot remember him ever missing receivers as bad as he has this year.

The fact that he is over throwing open receivers by a huge amount is disturbing. And I think it all comes back to what was said in the 

article, its bout footwork and body position.

I have no doubt that with the full off season he will bounce back and be the RGIII we need.

 

He's got 3 more yards on 63 more attempts, so I don't think that yardage stat is all that interesting.  But I think yards is one of the more overrated QB stats to begin with.

 

But I agree about the missed receivers.  If RG3 hit the open people that he just flat out missed on these throws, he'd probably still be playing right now.  And these are throws he probably hits 8 out of 10 times last year.