Schottenheimer: No NFL coach better than Shanahan

[Laron Burgundy]

I don't like that people here blast shanny for keeping rg3 in the meaningful playoff seattle game and then blast him for benching him in 3 meaningless games.  RG3 has probably taken more big hits than any other qb in the league this year.  If Shanahan rethought the benching and rg3 did get injured in the last 3 games this year, what then?  What would these fans say then?

 

Yes, plenty of other players are at risk of injury too.  No, we didn't trade 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder for every other player on our roster.  RG3's confidence and health are the most important things going in to next season.  He is our franchise qb, Shanahan SHOULD be in the business of protecting him, physically and mentally.  The last thing I want is him to be David Carr'd by this offensive line.

[Epochalypse]

Griffin's talent goes beyond being simply a read option QB, and regardless of that, it's pretty evident that the current defensive, and special teams scheme is simply not working. Again, are players blameless? No, but coaching matters. Schemes matter. Philosophies matter. Development matters. Thats not happening.... Across the board.

 

 

And I'm glad that you are a fan, and not someone who heads an organization, who doesn't make decisions (that are fair) based on present and past performance. I'm glad that you don't understand the meaning of structure, true accountability, and performance

I agree Griffin's talent goes beyond read option QB.  But Griffin's talent is not where Griffin's talent will eventually be.  He was not playing well and I assume that Shanahan felt the best way to develop him is to sit him down and prepare for the offseason and I agree.  I never said coaching or schemes didn't matter.  I did say development is necessary.  You just disagree with Mike Shanahan on the best way to develop a QB.

 

As for my position in life, I've said before I'm military.  I have supervised up to 90 people.  I make decisions on a daily basis that have far more impact than whether a team wearing one color of spandex has outplayed a team wearing a different color of spandex.  What I recognize is that facts and thorough analysis are important to the decision making process and information operations relies on the ability to assess what the facts are.

 

But by all means, lecture me on my understanding of structure, true accountability and performance.

[Mr. Sinister]

And no one believes that Shanahan benched RG3 PURELY for health reasons, but it's not a complete lie.

 

It doesn't really matter what anyone actually believes... Its about what Mike said, which directly contradicts one of his mottos that he was preaching when he took the podium back in 2010.

 

 

 I love the hypocrisy as if NO OTHER PERSON in the world lies except Mike Shanahan.  Head coaching requires deception just like the military, and yet we have reporters imbedded with invading forces because dammit the public has the right to know what's going on, even if it jeopardizes the mission.

 

 

It would actually be hypocrisy if you could actually find where I said that coaches had to be cherry tree chopping goody two shoes who cannot tell a lie. Now, should there be a general amount of transparency? Sure. Beyond that, the rest is optional as far as I'm concerned. If it were up to me, very little would get out. I don't need a coach to be Dr. Phil. But there is a problem. There is no invasion when someone willingly feeds the media scraps of info (fact or fiction... doesn't matter).

 

There are all kinds of different lies. The ones I detest are lies that either cover your own ass, ones that involve other people instead of yourself, and lies that contradict certain standards that you hold others to, that have a profound impact.

 

And you say football is a team game.  Well that team is more than RG3.

 

 

Not when you bench him, and allow others who aren't performing to keep their jobs. I thought I said that already. If it's health, limit snaps, or deactivate other guys... If it's performance, demote others and see what talent you may have behind them. It's not a difficult concept. Its also not really something that I'd advocate, but when you bench the QB in a lost season of Murphy's Law, that is the corner you  back yourself into (and that is if it wasn't part of an ulterior motive/agenda).

 

 

If the TEAM plays better taking out a struggling RG3, especially a team that can't look forward to a playoff spot but is concerned about showing how they would operate in a given system with possibly a more system-savvy QB, then I'm sure the team appreciates that move. 

 

 

They lost to a 3-10 team, with a ****ty defense starting 5 rookies, and a ****ty o-line, while commiting 7 turnovers. I didn't see a better team last week. So... Maybe more people need to be benched, right?

 

 

 Now I am not one of these people saying RG3 is a bust, is a head case, is a coach killer, etc.  What I am saying is that RG3 can use some development, and that wanting to sit him does not mean I don't want him to become the QB he has the potential to become. 

 

 

Now this I can agree with. Only problem is you have a dictatorship heirarchy, two coaches (the Shanahans) with differing philosophies, and a system that relies on running the ball,and throwing off of PA, with an O-line incapable of pass protecting at an adequate clip. That doesn't sound like  a situation where a QB can develop properly... Oh, that is unless his HC makes the necessary changes to improve the situation... Which Mike wont do. That is also a fact...Because he still hasn't done it.

 

So... no matter how you look at this, all roads lead to Mike Shanahan. Every exit door, every closet door, every crawlspace, every desk... Mike Shanahan. And firing him for this is unwarranted? Giving him an extension is necessary? Keep the status quo going? Enable further ineptitude? 

 

I don't think so.

[IrepDC]

Projecting myself as an NFL head coach: if there are continuous leaks coming out that are a distraction to my team, I am going to "leak" a story that I am going to find the leak, and remove that person(s) from the organization. I'd make it clear that my team was here for football, and anything else that was a distraction from football would not be tolerated. And when I say "leak" a story, I mean that I'm going to say it right in front of a camera so that everyone knows I mean business.

[Epochalypse]

It doesn't really matter what anyone actually believes... Its about what Mike said, which directly contradicts one of his mottos that he was preaching when he took the podium back in 2010.

 

 

 

It would actually be hypocrisy if you could actually find where I said that coaches had to be cherry tree chopping goody two shoes who cannot tell a lie. Now, should there be a general amount of transparency? Sure. Beyond that, the rest is optional as far as I'm concerned. If it were up to me, very little would get out. I don't need a coach to be Dr. Phil. But there is a problem. There is no invasion when someone willingly feeds the media scraps of info (fact or fiction... doesn't matter).

 

There are all kinds of different lies. The ones I detest are lies that either cover your own ass, ones that involve other people instead of yourself, and lies that contradict certain standards that you hold others to, that have a profound impact.

 

 

Not when you bench him, and allow others who aren't performing to keep their jobs. I thought I said that already. If it's health, limit snaps, or deactivate other guys... If it's performance, demote others and see what talent you may have behind them. It's not a difficult concept. Its also not really something that I'd advocate, but when you bench the QB in a lost season of Murphy's Law, that is the corner you  back yourself into (and that is if it wasn't part of an ulterior motive/agenda).

 

 

 

They lost to a 3-10 team, with a ****ty defense starting 5 rookies, and a ****ty o-line, while commiting 7 turnovers. I didn't see a better team last week. So... Maybe more people need to be benched, right?

 

 

 

Now this I can agree with. Only problem is you have a dictatorship heirarchy, two coaches (the Shanahans) with differing philosophies, and a system that relies on running the ball,and throwing off of PA, with an O-line incapable of pass protecting at an adequate clip. That doesn't sound like  a situation where a QB can develop properly... Oh, that is unless his HC makes the necessary changes to improve the situation... Which Mike wont do. That is also a fact...Because he still hasn't done it.

 

So... no matter how you look at this, all roads lead to Mike Shanahan. Every exit door, every closet door, every crawlspace, every desk... Mike Shanahan. And firing him for this is unwarranted? Giving him an extension is necessary? Keep the status quo going? Enable further ineptitude? 

 

I don't think so.

I can't comment to what Shanahan said at the podium in 2010.  If ou can provide that to me, I'd appreciate it.

 

And it appears you recognize that coaches lie and are fine with that.  You go on to list those lies you find reproachable.  By all means, if you have never committed any of those lies yourself more power to you.  If you have, then my comment on hypcorisy, while not directly attributed to you, would then apply.  If Shanahan has it certainly provides more justification to fire him.  But again, just because you and some others have already condemned Shanahan for doing these things without anyone being able to prove he did, doesn't mean I have to subscribe to it.

 

It makes no sense to bench someone if you don't have an adequate replacement.  Shanahan has shown he will bench people if he has a better alternative.  Right now he believes he has a more effective QB than RG3 in Cousins.  He obviously does not believe he has better players at whatever position you are referring to when you ask him to do it at other positions.  Or it's possible that in order to properly assess RG3's performance to date, it's necessary to change as little of the personnel around the QB position as possible in order to more accurately reflect how much blame falls on the QB.

 

I never said the Atlanta game reflected the team playing better.  I said that the team may appreciate a move at QB if they play better as a result.  Only the team knows that.  But you'll read into what I type what you want.

 

You state that we have a dictatorship hierarchy with two coaches, which by definition is not a dictatorship hierarchy.  you claim they have differing philosophies though I'm not sure anything I've seen suggests that is the case.  And then you say the HC won't make changes to improve the situation, except he has.  He changed QBs.

 

And because you didn't do your research, you claim I believe firing Shanahan is unwarranted and it's necessary to give him an extension.  I can't wait to see what I'll say next.

[Mr. Sinister]

I agree Griffin's talent goes beyond read option QB.  But Griffin's talent is not where Griffin's talent will eventually be.  He was not playing well and I assume that Shanahan felt the best way to develop him is to sit him down and prepare for the offseason and I agree.  I never said coaching or schemes didn't matter.  I did say development is necessary.  You just disagree with Mike Shanahan on the best way to develop a QB.

 

 

You develop him by allowing him to gain as much experience as possible, and not putting him in bubble wrap (not that it matter sin the long run, since he'll play for another coach next year.. But we're strictly talking about development) You develop him by scrapping the RO when he had a sprained LCL in'12, instead of running him in to oblivion to save your own ass. You develop him by taking him out in a playoff game when its clear he is hurt (and I'm talking about his knee, not his feelings). You develop him by addressing the O-line, knowing that he won't be the player that could leave everyone in the dust on any run. You develop him by incorporating different schemes into the offense to get better production out of everyone (and not trying to run the same exact **** as last year).

 

You develop your QB by fixing the defense, so when he makes natural 2nd year mistakes (worsened by the recovering ACl) he isn't automatically down by 30 points. You fix the special teams so every damn drive doesn't start at the 10-20 yd line. All of this could've been done when it was clear that Shanahan still had a vision for this team. But now that he appears to be on the way out, he wants to do the right thing... The sensible thing. all of a sudden he cares about Griffin long term. Now he wants him to get healthy. Again, I don't buy that. Your development is only as good as your coaching. Despite past credentials, I don't think there is very good coaching here. I don't think there is a clear philosophy.

 

As for my position in life, I've said before I'm military.  I have supervised up to 90 people.  I make decisions on a daily basis that have far more impact than whether a team wearing one color of spandex has outplayed a team wearing a different color of spandex.  What I recognize is that facts and thorough analysis are important to the decision making process and information operations relies on the ability to assess what the facts are.

 

But by all means, lecture me on my understanding of structure, true accountability and performance.

 

 

Hey, I can appreciate that. I was raised military. (my dad moved us here from Florida back when he was stationed at Homestead AFB) I may have had a career in the AF as well, but I was disqualified for medical reasons. 

 

At any rate, it's a two way street. I won't pretend to lecture if you don't assume that I haven't considered any and all possibilities, and that I am basically raging on Shanahan for no reason, when my posts suggest otherwise. There are enough facts to **** can him. Rumors only serve to expedite the process.

[Laron Burgundy]

You develop him by allowing him to gain as much experience as possible, and not putting him in bubble wrap (not that it matter sin the long run, since he'll play for another coach next year.. But we're strictly talking about development) You develop him by scrapping the RO when he had a sprained LCL in'12, instead of running him in to oblivion to save your own ass. You develop him by taking him out in a playoff game when its clear he is hurt (and I'm talking about his knee, not his feelings). You develop him by addressing the O-line, knowing that he won't be the player that could leave everyone in the dust on any run. You develop him by incorporating different schemes into the offense to get better production out of everyone (and not trying to run the same exact **** as last year).

 

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/

 

Please explain to me how we fix all these problems with the lowest spending and yet 2nd lowest cap space in the nfl.  Exactly what upgrades on OL were we going to get for $809,813 this year?  That could afford, what, 2 more special teamers?  Which we probably would have needed seeing as how 6 of our special teamers are hurt for the year.  How were we going to fix our offensive line, special teams, AND defense with $809,813?

 

Also tell me what schemes we can use that put up huge numbers even when a qb is 2 yards off on a throw.  What schemes allow a qb to miss seeing open men regularly and yet maintain drives?  Don't get me wrong, RG3 didn't have time to throw (which goes back to paragraph 1) and our receivers won't remind you of Denver's any time soon (again, paragraph 1), but RG3 isn't completely blameless in his play this year.  A coach doesn't read defenses or make the throws, and there were plenty of times that RG3 was just off on his throws.

[Mr. Sinister]

it appears you recognize that coaches lie and are fine with that.  You go on to list those lies you find reproachable.  By all means, if you have never committed any of those lies yourself more power to you.

 

Once again, you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. There is no black/white issue when it comes to lying at a press conference as an NFL head coach. Its not a place where you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god. Thats not how it works. Saying "I'm staking my reputation on John Beck and Rex Grossman," or "We had a good week of practice" is not the same as saying "I don't talk to any of you off the record" when discussing media leaks, when everyone knows that is a lie ( which serves to attempt to shun suspicion of issues that are of a greater magnitude, somewhere else.)

 

When you are lying to protect a player from media scrutiny, or taking blame for decisions that may not have had anything to do with you, it may/may not be right from a morality standpoint, but it is necessary for the sake of your team. You are taking the fall for your players. That lessens the amount of attention that would've been paid otherwise, if they "Told the truth." That is NECESSARY.

 

When you lie to shift blame, or when you contradict the very standards that you set for others (leadership, accountability, loyalty, respect) that is what I have a problem with.

 

It makes no sense to bench someone if you don't have an adequate replacement.  Shanahan has shown he will bench people if he has a better alternative. 

 

And if he doesn't have a better alternative, who's fault is that? Is Logan Paulsen a better alternative than Fred Davis? Is Aldrick Robinson a better alternative than Josh Morgan? Shanahan has shown that he will replace anyone who doesn't perform (in every aspect that a player can perform) up to his standards. That doesn't mean that the new player is somehow better than the other. What about the health factor? If Griffin gets benched for health reasons doesn't that mean that other important players should get time off too?

 

 Right now he believes he has a more effective QB than RG3 in Cousins.  He obviously does not believe he has better players at whatever position you are referring to when you ask him to do it at other positions.  Or it's possible that in order to properly assess RG3's performance to date, it's necessary to change as little of the personnel around the QB position as possible in order to more accurately reflect how much blame falls on the QB.

 

I never said the Atlanta game reflected the team playing better.  I said that the team may appreciate a move at QB if they play better as a result.  Only the team knows that.  But you'll read into what I type what you want.

 

 

The point I was making is that if a suposedly more savvy QB change can help a team play better, yet they play as badly as the week prior, then more change should be explored. You appear to be content with just Griffin getting benched. Can't more be done to help them play better, if Griffin obviously isn't the main reason why they are playing poorly? Can o-lineman be benched? Can running backs be benched? Can Playcallers be relieved of their duties? If Shanahan isnt confident in any other alternatives, when his current assembly is bad, then shouldn't he be the one to take the majority of the blame since he's the personnel guy?

 

You state that we have a dictatorship hierarchy with two coaches, which by definition is not a dictatorship hierarchy.  you claim they have differing philosophies though I'm not sure anything I've seen suggests that is the case.  And then you say the HC won't make changes to improve the situation, except he has.  He changed QBs.

 

 

 

Well as long as we're splitting hairs, Webster.... It's one coach, with full power, who can hire/fire, promote, or give more authority to anyone he chooses. It's his running game, and it's Kyle's passing game.Mike wants to run, and Kyle loves to throw.

 

And besides QB, Shanahan has changed very little. Same supporting cast, same coaching staff. Same defense that has been bad since he's been here, and was bad when he was in charge in Denver... Nothings changed.

[Spearfeather]

Shanahan said this:

 

 

“I talked to Dan Snyder about a week ago, talked to him about the amount of hits Robert has had. Any time you’ve been hit as many times as he’s been hit, I thought it was in his best interests, and the organization, to talk about whether we should continue playing Robert if he’s been hit as much as he’s been hit.”

 

But, did he really want to say this?:

 

I talked to Dan about a week ago, and he and I felt that a combination of poor protection along the O - Line, combined with Robert developing a tendency to hold on to the ball too long, and not recognizing open receivers, and at times just simply not looking comfortable in the pocket ..... we felt the combination of these things were leaving Robert more prone to injury, beyond a level that we were comfortable with. It's because of these reasons that we've decided that what is best for Robert and the organization is for Robert to sit out these last three meaningless games. Basically, we did not feel the risk reward ratio, was in Roberts' or the organizations' favor.

[skinfan2k]

Why did we resign trash like Fletcher, Moss, Fred Davis.  Give a extension to Kory.  This team is full of excuses why the line can't develop

[darrelgreenie]

Projecting myself as an NFL head coach: if there are continuous leaks coming out that are a distraction to my team, I am going to "leak" a story that I am going to find the leak, and remove that person(s) from the organization. I'd make it clear that my team was here for football, and anything else that was a distraction from football would not be tolerated. And when I say "leak" a story, I mean that I'm going to say it right in front of a camera so that everyone knows I mean business.

If I was a owner/HC/GM.

Anyone team member that leaked damaging information is DONE period.

Football is a game played by men.

Teammates don't go behind each others backs and run to the press.

You stand up and address the problem like a man and we move forward as a team.

No grudges. Find a problem address it. Move on.

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

 

If I was an owner I would be livid that MY fuggin HC may be the source of some damaging leaks.

L I V I D. Skull drag angry.

[Mr. Sinister]

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/

 

Please explain to me how we fix all these problems with the lowest spending and yet 2nd lowest cap space in the nfl.  Exactly what upgrades on OL were we going to get for $809,813 this year?  That could afford, what, 2 more special teamers?  Which we probably would have needed seeing as how 6 of our special teamers are hurt for the year.  How were we going to fix our offensive line, special teams, AND defense with $809,813?

 

 

 

You're right... The cap penalty was horrible. What I would like to know is how, knowing all of this, most conversations evolve around Griffin, his relationship with Snyder, and his daddy meddling in affairs involving the team, and not the entire team collectively. I want to know how Jim Haslett still has a job after 4 years, with a scheme that does not suit his players.... which predates the cap penalty. I want to know how a special teams unit led by a new coach can play as badly as it has this year, after last year being all Danny Smiths fault.

 

I want to know why from year one on, the OL has been bad. I want to know why o-lineman drafted have not panned out. You can point to the cap penalty, and you can point to the players. Nothing wrong with that. But this team clearly has coaching issues, across the board. No amount of cap money in the world can hide that.

 

Also tell me what schemes we can use that put up huge numbers even when a qb is 2 yards off on a throw.  What schemes allow a qb to miss seeing open men regularly and yet maintain drives?  Don't get me wrong, RG3 didn't have time to throw (which goes back to paragraph 1) and our receivers won't remind you of Denver's any time soon (again, paragraph 1), but RG3 isn't completely blameless in his play this year.  A coach doesn't read defenses or make the throws, and there were plenty of times that RG3 was just off on his throws.

 

 

I never said he was blameless. He deserves plenty of blame for his play. So do the coaches, so does the cap penalty, so does everything else that you can realistically point to. Coaches coach their guys up, or change their approach to get better results. How do they do that? I don't know, you'd have to ask them. But even under these circumstances, everyone is capable of playing and coaching better... And when its not happening, the head coach has to answer for it.

[Mr. Sinister]

Why did we resign trash like Fletcher, Moss, Fred Davis.  Give a extension to Kory.  This team is full of excuses why the line can't develop

 

Desperation.

[grego]

Why would shanny go to Dallas where Jerrah insists on being the gm?

I doubt he'd like that.

[MumboSauce]

Unfortunately the 10-6 season compared to the other 10+ loss seasons feels like the aberration of the 4...won't take that from him though, good one season.

 

With a Good GM and Shanahan not having autonomy he may have still been a good-great coach. He is a good offensive mind, especially in the run game.  That and it doesn't seem like the coach and the probable franchise QB's relationship can be fixed. I think it's long gone. Too much negative surrounding the franchise for it all to just go away under the current regime. Eh...who knows. Just hope things get turned around sooner than later.

[Laron Burgundy]

Why did we resign trash like Fletcher, Moss, Fred Davis. Give a extension to Kory. This team is full of excuses why the line can't develop

Fletcher and moss signed their contracts years ago when they were actually pretty vital to us. Davis was signed to give us an option at tight end if needed. Cutting them would have saved us like 6 mil this year and then opened up 3 holes that we would fill with who? They haven't been great, but I don't think we're going to fix the o line AND fill their roster spots with less than 7 mil cap room.

[KCClybun]

With my luck, Shanny will be here four more years. And in 2017, when were still losing and not getting better, I'll have to endure more dumbass talk about how the roster was so bad in 2009.

The roster was bad in 2009. It's bad now. In four seasons, we've only added, what, ten players who might turn out to be in the long term future of this team? In FOUR YEARS.

That's not an indication of how bad we were in 2009. It's a indication of poorly spent free agency money and piss pour development of draft picks.

We're still dealing these injuries where if one or two players at a position group get hurt, the team is royally ****ed and hurting for even average depth, that's not about 2009. It's about now.

The cap penalty was Shanny's fault. It was illegal and petty and biased and driven by Mara, but he was warned that if he messed with the bull, he'd get the horns. And the dumb **** painted himself bright red, looked at the NFL and said "come in, gore me, I dare you!" It's not a one time thing. He was fined a few times in Denver for manipulating the cap.

No one forced Mike to trade draft picks away for Jammal Brown and McNabb.

So this crap about how he has no cap space and no draft picks is bull.

Every player that is here is here because Mike. You want more cap space, how about not paying Josh Morgan 4 mil a year, or having a 38 year old player on the decline be one of the highest paid players on the team. How about that?

[chipwhich]

Every player that is here is here because Mike. You want more cap space, how about not paying Josh Morgan 4 mil a year, or having a 38 year old player on the decline be one of the highest paid players on the team. How about that?

 

Dude relax, Shanny is gone.

[MusicCitySkin]

"Gee whiz, this cap penalty sure sucks. I guess I'll give Josh Morgan 5.7 million dollars a year and call it a day."

[TD Riggo]

How would everyone feel if Snyder fired Shanahan after the season and he gets hired to be the Dallas Cowboys HC?

We could be looking at being knocked out of the playoffs for the next 8 years. Let alone have any chance of winning our division.

Don't be surprised since Jerry coveted Shanahan for years and would take him in a heart beat.

Shanahan could then hire Kubiak to be OC.

Then we could also watch Kyle go back to Houston and run a number one offense like he did before he came here

Be careful what you wish for because you could end up getting it

 

 

This is my concern. A lot of the knuckleheads with pitchforks and torches around here haven't thought this through. Jerruh would LOVE to have Shanahan, and Mike will take the playbook and full knowledge of our franchise QB with him. But yeah .. let's send 'im out on a rail!

[s0crates]

Face it guys, we're cursed. Mike Shanahan is a hall of fame coach and he is highly respected around the league but EVERYTHING we touch turns in to stone. With our luck Mike will be fired picked up by another franchise and win a superbowl in 3-5 years. We had the hottest rookie the league has seen and now he looks TERRIBLE!

Change the name to something else because it's obvious someone has cursed us with some voodoo.

I'm not prone to magical thinking, but I feel this way sometimes too.

[SicEm10]

Does anyone think this could, by chance, be yet another move instigated by Shanahan's camp?

[blueskin]

In dictatorships, isn't the ringing endorsement usually heard right before the subject in question is shot in the head?

[1972FAN]

A lot of questions will be answered the 30th. Not interested in all the gossip

and what the UNNAMED source said, lol

[truskinsfan18]

Schotty is a legendary coach, so this compliment coming from him means a lot.

 

NFL Network did a football life special about Schottenheimer.