CBS Sports: Snyder, RG3 made mistakes, but this Redskins disaster is all Shanahan(s)

[grego]

epoch- leaking that it was dan who wanted griff while shanny wanted someone else says dan is meddling again. once you convince anyone dan is meddling, you not only have your exit, but you have an explanation for your overall poor record.

[Garcon More Wine]

the first leak about him quitting reeked of "woe is me" crap.  he couldnt handle the relationship between griff/snyder anymore and was ready to quit, and then he left griffin in and felt compelled to see it through?  i mean F'ing spare me, what a crock of ****.  that is a blatant martyr leak if ive ever seen one.

[Skinsinparadise]

Epoch, given the price we paid the report that he didn't want Griffin absolutely paints him in a positive light. That trade looks horrible for the Redskins right now. They could have Tannehill, Wilson, Cousins, etc. plus 4 other starters (after this coming draft) for the price they paid to have a QB who doesn't deserve to be playing right now.

 

If Cousins runs this offense well over the final 3 games, Shanahan will pretty much show that we would be in a much better spot (team wise) with Cousins + 2 additional starters + a first-round pick this April than we are right now.

 

Laconfora said its BS that Shanny didn't want Rg3, Adam Schefter who is supposedly the closest to Shanny also said BS and Shanny was all in.

 

But lets play along, it means 2 things:

 

1.  Shanny's one accomplishment with this team is winning the division, well, he shouldn't get credit for it then, since RG3 carried that team.  His defense that year was as awful as any of the horrible defenses Shanny has put together here and in Denver.

 

2.  this dude isn't much of a leader and is pretty weak.  He has total control over the team based on his contract but Danny is calling the shots for the most important transaction the team makes?

 

Now, at the moment I am no Shanny fan.  But I don't think he is a weak personality. If anything I think the dude would stand up to anybody to get his way. 

[Epochalypse]

Epoch, given the price we paid the report that he didn't want Griffin absolutely paints him in a positive light. That trade looks horrible for the Redskins right now. They could have Tannehill, Wilson, Cousins, etc. plus 4 other starters (after this coming draft) for the price they paid to have a QB who doesn't deserve to be playing right now.

 

If Cousins runs this offense well over the final 3 games, Shanahan will pretty much show that we would be in a much better spot (team wise) with Cousins + 2 additional starters + a first-round pick this April than we are right now.

It only paints him in a positive light with anyone who thought we shouldn't have made the trade.

 

Even after this year, I would still say we should ahve made the trade.  Tannehill has nowhere near the upside that RG3 has.  RG3 after a full offseason I fully expect will be much improved.  Tannehill will still be Tannehill.

 

Everyone on the team has already said, no matter how Kirk plays, next year it is still RG3's team.

epoch- leaking that it was dan who wanted griff while shanny wanted someone else says dan is meddling again. once you convince anyone dan is meddling, you not only have your exit, but you have an explanation for your overall poor record.

Does Dan then get credit for last year?  Because last year doesn't happen without RG3.

 

If only Dan's meddling always gave us division championships.

the first leak about him quitting reeked of "woe is me" crap.  he couldnt handle the relationship between griff/snyder anymore and was ready to quit, and then he left griffin in and felt compelled to see it through?  i mean F'ing spare me, what a crock of ****.  that is a blatant martyr leak if ive ever seen one.

Again, a leak of "woe is me" is pathetic and embarassing for a head coach, especially one who supposedly has such an oversized ego.  A head coach who couldn't control his player.  A head coach who butted heads with the owner.  None of these strike me as garnering Shanahan any sympathy.  Look at the media.  No one is giving him any.  Because "woe is me" is not the message any self-respecting head coach wants to send.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I was happy about the trade when it happened, but can anyone argue that Griffin alone is better than Wilson + all the picks we shipped to St. Louis? There's no guarantee we would have drafted Tannehill if we didn't trade up for Griffin.

 

Anyway, I was simply answering one of your questions (how would not wanting Griffin make Mike look good?).

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I was happy about the trade when it happened, but can anyone argue that Griffin alone is better than Wilson + all the picks we shipped to St. Louis? .....

 

Not right here, right now. 

 

But give me a coaching staff that will work with him instead of against him and I'll get back to you on that. 

 

Hail. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I still think the odds are against him being so much better than Wilson that we couldn't use 3 other solid starters on the team. This is purely hindsight...I loved the trade when it happened.

[Garcon More Wine]

I still think the odds are against him being so much better than Wilson that we couldn't use 3 other solid starters on the team. This is purely hindsight...I loved the trade when it happened.

 

i think wilson is insanely overrated.  i think he just happens to be surrounded by talent every which way.  not to say that wilson isnt good, but i think you could put plenty of QBs in that seattle offense and youd see similar numbers.  hell, his stadium alone is worth 8 wins a season and that doesnt even take up a roster spot lol.

[Epochalypse]

Epochalypse, aside from saying pot, kettle, black; I honestly don't think you now know what your trying to defend or dispel. 

 

But it's quite entertaining regardless so don't let me stop you. 

 

Hail. 

I suppose it would be too much to ask you to explain how your pot and kettle reference fits.

 

So instead I'll pose two simple questions:

 

How do you decide which reports are real and which are fake?

 

When you decide to attribute leaks to one unnamed source or another what's your rationale?

 

All I've been arguing during this is that I am not going to buy in to everything the media (or the mob-think) feeds me.  I've already stated numerous times that I would probably fire Shanahan, but because of doing a poor job coaching.  I would be firing him based on fact.  He is not doing a good job coaching.  My proof of that is our record, the level of effort the players are exhibiting and the failure to adjust effectively.  I am a big fan of basing decisions on proven facts.

 

My issue is that others need to attribute some form of emotion-based narrative that paints the picture that Kyle is deliberately calling the wrong plays to make RG3 look bad, or Mike never wanted RG3, or Mike is trying to get fired, etc. that I still haven't seen any hard evidence other than media spin against a decision they disagree with.  I would hope that Snyder also sticks to facts when he makes any change (if he does since that is still up in the air) because I want the next hire to be based on what we need in order to fix all the problems we have.  I've said it in another post, by making Shanahan out ot be 100% at fault for this season, it blinds us to all the other problems this team needs to fix.  As others have mentioned, what about the defense?  What about the special teams?  As Mike himself mentioned, when RG3 is getting hit, is it the line?  the receivers?  Is RG3 not reading the defense correctly?  Because if we don't properly analyze that, we may be getting rid of the wrong people.  We may then be bringing the wrong people in.

 

Emotions cloud judgment.  I want Snyder's to be crystal clear (or as close to it as he can manage) and it's less likely to be so if the vast majority of fans are in his ear chanting how Shanahan turned them into a newt.

[Epochalypse]

I was happy about the trade when it happened, but can anyone argue that Griffin alone is better than Wilson + all the picks we shipped to St. Louis? There's no guarantee we would have drafted Tannehill if we didn't trade up for Griffin.

 

Anyway, I was simply answering one of your questions (how would not wanting Griffin make Mike look good?).

Griffin led us to a division championship.

 

As far as I can tell the picks the Rams made with our traded draft picks have not done helped them do that.  They haven't even finished above .500 the past two years (yes they may reach .500 this year but they would need to win out).  Obviously they still get one more pick and there are still a few years of analysis necessary to say who made out here but as of right now, I'll take the division championship over a sub .500 record.

 

Wilson is a bit of an anomaly, no one expected him to be this good; otherwise he wouldn't have lasted until the 3rd round.  Would we be better with Wilson and all those picks?  Possibly.  There's also no guarantee we would have drafted Wilson either.  Why are we not bemoaning the fact we could have drafted Tom Brady the year he came out?  Imagine all those draft picks we threw away trying to draft a QB when we could have had him all these years.  Fact is this team drafted RG3, who by almost all accounts has tremendous upside and was already a good QB, and really with a draft that is about all you can hope for coming out of it.

Not right here, right now. 

 

But give me a coaching staff that will work with him instead of against him and I'll get back to you on that. 

 

Hail. 

And again, you make it obvious that your opinion is that all of the issues between QB and HC were entirely on the HC and RG3 had no part in his troubles this year.

 

It's that blindness that I hope Snyder doesn't succumb to.

[Skinsinparadise]

i think wilson is insanely overrated.  i think he just happens to be surrounded by talent every which way.  not to say that wilson isnt good, but i think you could put plenty of QBs in that seattle offense and youd see similar numbers.  hell, his stadium alone is worth 8 wins a season and that doesnt even take up a roster spot lol.

 

Wilson has had some putrid games this year, where he barely passed over 100 yards, with 50% or less completion rate.  The difference, Wilson doesn't have to carry the team on his back like Rg3 has to.  John Schneider has put together a balanced team, great defense, good special teams, and Wilson has more weapons.  

 

Wilson can win at times even if he just puts up 14 points.  Redskins put up just 14 points, we likely lose in a blow out. Outside of the running game, Shanny has put together a roster with weak spot after weak spot. 

[darrelgreenie]

i think wilson is insanely overrated.  i think he just happens to be surrounded by talent every which way.  not to say that wilson isnt good, but i think you could put plenty of QBs in that seattle offense and youd see similar numbers.  hell, his stadium alone is worth 8 wins a season and that doesnt even take up a roster spot lol.

Russell Wilson is one of the more underrated QB by this board. Very few give him the respect he deserves for whatever reason (insecurity about Griffin?).

I love Griffin and think Griff will eventually surpass Russ. But right now, this far in their careers Wilson is better.

Better then Griffin and better then Luck.

[Red420skins]

People talk crap on Snyder for being a crappy business man. I do not really agree. The skins are the 3rd most valuable NFL franchise....worth 1.7 billion or something. He is making $$ regardless if we win or lose....and lots of it.

 

How much money had Danny made off RG3's name....jersey sales ect.... ? All that free media coverage of 3's name being in the news every day for the last 2 years ? He is a household name, don't think it doesn't reflect on the redskins brand sales wise.

 

Basically being a winning owner , and a good business man don't have to go hand in hand. Although it would make being a fan of this team much better if that was the case.

 

holy ****....did I just defend Dan Snyder ? .....  this season has made me lose my mind.

[chipwhich]

People talk crap on Snyder for being a crappy business man. I do not really agree. The skins are the 3rd most valuable NFL franchise....worth 1.7 billion or something. He is making $$ regardless if we win or lose....and lots of it.

 

How much money had Danny made off RG3's name....jersey sales ect.... ? All that free media coverage of 3's name being in the news every day for the last 2 years ? He is a household name, don't think it doesn't reflect on the redskins brand sales wise.

 

Basically being a winning owner , and a good business man don't have to go hand in hand. Although it would make being a fan of this team much better if that was the case.

 

holy ****....did I just defend Dan Snyder ? .....  this season has made me lose my mind.

 

Not sure anyone gave Danny crap about being a bad businessman.

 

 

Your post is a fail.

[Red420skins]

To the previous poster :

 

Actually it was earlier in the thread, a poster made a comment and I was responding to it. Although he did not say the exact words Danny Boy is a bad business man...his description of Dan was not how you would describe a good business man. not sure if you have read the whole thread, or just decided to jump on me for posting my opinion. I would use the quote feature, but I am not looking to waste time debating back and forth. I am surprised I even took the 2 minutes to respond to you just now.

 

This is a prime example of why I never post on this board. Whole lotta attitude up in here.

[coloradokid7]

Whats that got to do with this article. Its pretty much saying Mike is the problem. There are other threads on this site for your post.

It has everything to do with the Synder. Was the Shanahan contract a unilateral deal. Come on I don't think any decent owner would give Shanny the keys to the car did Pat Bowlen

[Burgold]

The bottom line for me is where do we see any sign that things will improve at all under Shanny in 2014?

Is it that the team has been very disciplined earning few penalties?

Is it that you are seeing the development of young players who are about to burst onto stardom?

Is it that the units are now congealing and playing much better?

Is it because he has demonstrated a gift for the draft and free agency such that you believe he can pick up the right players and the right fit immediately?

Is it that the team has been rallying around him?

 

Even outside of leaks and rumors of discontent.  The product on the field is terrible and getting worse.  The cap penalty is an excuse for some of it.  Griffin's inability to snap back to form is an excuse for some of it.  The bottom line is the bottom line.  If it was Griffin, he should have been pulled out while the games were still meaningful.  Shanahan is head coach and gm with the authority to do that.  If that's the failure it's on his head.  Should we have replaced Rocca during the season?  Should we have tried different line combos?

 

There's no reason why a coach on his fourth year should be fielding the worst team in the NFL.  With the extenuating circumstances I can see the team being poor.  6-10, 7-9, etc. but worse than the Jaguars?  Worse than the Texans?  It's proudest moment was going toe to toe and ultimately losing to another 3-10 team?

 

Come on?  That can't be excusable.

[Skinsinparadise]

The bottom line for me is where do we see any sign that things will improve at all under Shanny in 2014?

Is it that the team has been very disciplined earning few penalties?

Is it that you are seeing the development of young players who are about to burst onto stardom?

Is it that the units are now congealing and playing much better?

Is it because he has demonstrated a gift for the draft and free agency such that you believe he can pick up the right players and the right fit immediately?

Is it that the team has been rallying around him?

 

 

 

I'd add does this look and sound like a well coached team?   Shanny's clock management's is beyond bad, it gets mocked even by his biggest fan in the media, Kevin Sheehan.  Multiple times they have had a combination of timeouts coupled with a delay of game penalty.  They strangely rarely go hurry up or have a sense of urgency late in the game when they get behind.  You got 5 different players, current and ex who have criticized the team for being outcoached for not properly making in game adjustments, counter the opponent's counter moves, etc.   As you mentioned not only are they heavily penalized, the penalties seem to happen in the most inopportune moments.  The kicker though is Shanny's culture of excuses and scapegoating for problems.