Destino Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 23 minutes ago, Predicto said: Actually, Z-Bo is every bit as good a low post scorer as any of the old timers. He is a dinosaur in that way. But you are correct, Memphis has had an old style slow it down post dominant game for a long time. But they've "simply never had the scoring punch to get over the hump." Do you know WHY they have never had the scoring punch to get over the hump? Because they rely on an old style slow it down post dominant offensive game. It stagnates their offense, and leads to many fewer open threes or cuts to the rim. It's not just a coincidence Memphis has scored like poo for years. It's the inevitable result of running a 1992 offense in 2016. Z-Bo can't jump over a nickel and his FG% has been over .500 twice in 15 years. He's not every bit as good a scorer as the old timers. Also I have to take issue with the Grizzlies only lacking scoring punch because their offense is slow. Who are the great scorers they've had? I think in the last decade the only 20ppg player they've had is Z-Bo. Other than him they've had Rudy Gay, who might be the best argument for advanced stats. Talent is a major reason they've struggled to score. 23 minutes ago, Predicto said: and yes Shaq would be great today, of course. He would be outstanding in any era. But there aren't very many Shaqs. No player ever has combined his level of skill and sheer power. On the offensive end he would have dominated Kareem, Russell, even Wilt if he got to go one-on-one. But no team today would leave a PF alone on him, including Draymond. They would front him, deny him the ball, go for strips when he did get it, and send him to the line a lot. I know you're aware of this but I still have to poke fun at your including that teams would send Shaq to the line, as if teams didn't go to ridiculous extremes to do exactly that. I agree the new defensive rules would have made the old Iso plays harder to pull off, but Shaq was a master at setting up quickly. He'd get the ball. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Spurs over Kings and take the points on the other games. If you lose money, then it's your fault for listening to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Destino said: Z-Bo can't jump over a nickel and his FG% has been over .500 twice in 15 years. He's not every bit as good a scorer as the old timers. Also I have to take issue with the Grizzlies only lacking scoring punch because their offense is slow. Who are the great scorers they've had? I think in the last decade the only 20ppg player they've had is Z-Bo. Other than him they've had Rudy Gay, who might be the best argument for advanced stats. Talent is a major reason they've struggled to score. Moses Malone couldn't jump over a piece of paper. His career FG% was .490, and it was easier to post up back then because you only got one on one defense or immediate hard doubles. Nevertheless, he was an all time great, right? I find it pretty incredible how well Z-Bo does down low given that he plays in this era - it's harder to score that way now. The greatest low post scorer I ever saw was Kevin McHale, followed closely by Hakeem and Shaq. I admit, Z-Bo is not as good down low as those three, but he is just about as good as anyone else I've seen over the years, and I've been watching a long, long time. The Grizzlies lack scoring punch because they have a dump it in to the post offense that doesn't let any outside scorers or slashers thrive and develop. It's always clogged up near the basket and no one gets easy shots. So of course they don't have 20 ppg scorers. They score 80 points a game, have fewer offensive possessions than any other team. Mike Bibby couldn't score for Memphis but he scored just fine as soon as he left for Sacramento. Kyle Lowry couldn't score for Memphis but he's a scoring machine now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Bibby?! Good lord man that was 16 years ago. I have no memory of what the Vancouver Grizzlies offense looked like but i know it didnt run through Z-Bo and Marc Gasol as neither player was there. Lowry couldn't score in Houston either and he's still only had one 20+ppg season in 10 tries, not exactly a scoring machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Yeah, probably shouldn't have used Bibby. But the Grizz have been doing the "Grit-N-Grind my way to 83 points and hope we get the last possession" thing for so many years, it all starts to run together. Scoring doesn't just happen because you have some talent. It also happens because you run an offense that is designed to get scoring opportunities. Memphis runs an offense that is designed to run down the shot clock, reduce the number of possessions in the game, and protect against fast breaks by the other team. And they haven't been able to get over the hump with it, despite having a great center, a great low post scorer (now getting old), an excellent and seriously underrated point guard, and a bevy of defensive stoppers at every position. Edited October 28, 2016 by Predicto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 17 hours ago, Predicto said: And that is because post play is slow and easy to guard against with modern defenses. Teams can front, and switch and cut through passing lanes in a way they could not do in the past. An offense can't be slow and predictable anymore. Without the illegal defense rules of the past to prop them up, post players must take contested shots against double teams, and that doesn't provide a good bang for the buck. Post skills are still useful, of course. They are useful for punishing a team that switches on every pass - but only if your offense moves quickly and your post man is a skillful passer. Otherwise, you can't build a great team primarily around post play without relying on the archaic illegal defense rules that no longer exist. A guy like Patrick Ewing wouldn't score ten points a game in today's NBA. Deandre Jordan wouldnt be a laughing stock of a big man if this were true. IMO, the pace and space movement will make it easier for a complete good big man. The Magic made it to the finals with Dwight Howard because of it. We are just seeing a resurgence of good big men who are skilled, athletic, and can play both ends. Embiid is the leader of it, along with KAT. Patrick Ewing would be great in this era because he could stretch the floor and also bang down low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Yeah the pace and space in the era has really opened up the middle of the court for a low post scorer. You don't have a PF on the low block or on the elbow like you used to. That PF has drifted out to the perimeter in the corners and the FT line extended or he's out there setting high ball screens and setting up at the top of the key. You've got the entire inside of the floor you can isolate for your big man. Benning is right, those SVG Magic teams were pioneers of the style and used four three ball shooter line ups to open the court up for Dwight. He had his most effective seasons as a result. He was not a natural back to basket scorer either, he basically only had one move, that little spin to the baseline where he either stepped back and shot the jump hook over his shoulder or drove the baseline for a dunk or layup. He was a PnR player and a terror on the offensive glass who could not be consistently boxed out by one body. With all of the other bodies out on the perimeter, there is no one to clean up the glass. Now imagine if you had four good three ball shooters on the perimeter and you had someone with a versatile skill set and a legitimately diverse back to basket game? Someone like Cousins or Towns or Embiid. They could approach 30 PPG and be the first option for a championship caliber offense. Frankly, the reason a recent champion hasn't been built around a dominant low post scorer is because we haven't had a dominant low post scorer in the league since Duncan was in his prime. Dirk was the closest thing to it, but he was more of a high post scorer and a perimeter shooter. Same for LaMarcus Aldridge. Brook Lopez had a good season or two but he was not a complete player such that he could be the franchise, and injuries caused him to fall off the map. The first one to come along since TD has been DeMarcus Cousins, and he hasn't been on a good enough team to contend yet. Maybe if Oden and Brandon Roy hadn't gotten injured we would have seen a champion built around a low post player, but they did get injured, and c'est la vie. Styles evolve to fit the available personnel and the best personnel the league for the past ten years have been perimeter players. We're entering a generation where Davis, Cousins, Towns, Porzingis, and (hopefully) Embiid are going to be the dominant players in the league, so you'll see a shift back to interior scoring. Edited October 28, 2016 by stevemcqueen1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) I will say that I thought the non foul call on Dragic and then the foul call on Dragic at the end on the one sequence was bad. But the non-call on Whiteside for basket interference a few plays before that, was bad also. Close game, I'll take the W on the road. Edited October 29, 2016 by Dont Taze Me Bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 AD has 21 and 7 at the half.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 AD is ridiculous. I like Van Gundy's idea, win or lose the Pelicans fans should storm the floor just to celebrate what Davis has done through two games. Crazy numbers. Sadly, he has zero help. Warriors win but they still don't look right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Westbrook with the triple double: 51 points, 13 rebounds, 10 assists......third highest point total ever in a triple double effort. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: Westbrook with the triple double: 51 points, 13 rebounds, 10 assists......third highest point total ever in a triple double effort. Crazy. he worked out with Kobe in the offseason and it shows, 50pts on 44 shots his arm may fall off before the all-star break Edited October 29, 2016 by StillUnknown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Davis has a 47.29 PER right now. lol. 95 points and 32 rebounds in two games. God damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 And no wins Only 80 more games in a row. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 My Westbrook for MVP prediction is on track. He's going to come really close to averaging a triple double and topping Oscar Robertson's big season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 This pass by Lebron, tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, RonArtest15 said: This pass by Lebron, tho... Dude is special. He and Jordan stand alone at the pinnacle IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That looks like a Ricky Rubio pass. I'm not a big Rubio fan but he has a ton of those one handed bounce passes to moving players that look so pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Destino said: That looks like a Ricky Rubio pass. I'm not a big Rubio fan but he has a ton of those one handed bounce passes to moving players that look so pretty. Rubio would be a perennial all-star if he could throw the ball into the hoop once in a while. His passing and ball handling are top tier, and he's actually an above average defender. Unfortunately he is a putrid shooter. And because he isn't a threat to score from anywhere, the defense never has to leave their man to help on him. That's why all of his assists are so beautiful - they have to be amazing passes because the target is rarely open at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Noah fell off a cliff last year. It's a shame, he was one of my favorite players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The demise of the Warriors may be overstated. Last night they went into halftime in Portland with a seven point lead, but came out in the third quarter and dominated at both ends. Took it to a forty point lead before Portland threw in the towel and garbage time began. Portland is a very good team but they were shell-shocked. On the other hand, Klay Thompson still looks terrible. He's 3-23 on threes this season and just looks lost out there as the third option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 There was someone who thought the Warriors demised? You know exactly where that is coming from: somebody who is reaching to push the notion that there is any suspense about who will win this year's championship. There isn't. San Antonio and Cleveland are good teams and all, but there is absolutely zero question about whether or not the Warriors will win this year's ring. They're going to win it next year too. And the year after that. They're the most loaded team ever relative to their competition. There is no one in position to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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