***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[tshile]

Lebron is a giant douche bag and the antithesis of an ultra competitor. He also whines incessantly 

 

he’s clearly the one of the most talented/best players of all time. 
 

I don’t see how those ideas conflict. And many people, like me, root against him because of the first part. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

46 minutes ago, purbeast said:

The hating on Lebron today is pretty sad and pathetic. 

 

I mean the dude has been in the league for 20 years playing well more than 22 seasons with all the playoff games he has played in and put up a 40 piece and nearly had a triple double in an elimination game and they lost by 2 points and people are still hating on him.

 

I guess it makes them feel good about themselves though.

 

I respect LeBron for being an all time great.  He's a fantastic basketball player.  I don't think you'd find anyone to deny that.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with making me feel good about myself...I feel just fine about myself with or without LeBron.  It has to do with everything that @tshile wrote below.

 

Sure, he had 40 last night but he had 31 of those in the first half, IIRC. And I am bringing this back to Jordan because by his own admission, Jordan is the guy LeBron wants to chase and be compared to...Jordan never would have let his foot off the gas pedal after dropping 31 in the first half in any playoff game.

 

But like I said, he's a great, great player.  However, I'd rather tell my kids about Kobe and Steph...Kobe because he was the closest you could get to a Jordan clone, Steph because he started to change the way we thought about how you could shoot a basketball and ushered in the 3 point era we're sitting squarely in right now.  And the Warriors, when they were on, they played a beautiful brand of basketball.

 

LeBron?  A freight train playing some kind of point/forward position, played a long time, won a lot of games, made a lot of finals appearances and craved everyone's respect and adoration.  

 

37 minutes ago, tshile said:

Lebron is a giant douche bag and the antithesis of an ultra competitor. He also whines incessantly 

 

he’s clearly the one of the most talented/best players of all time. 
 

I don’t see how those ideas conflict. And many people, like me, root against him because of the first part. 

 

I absolutely root against him.  That said, to my point above and yours, you can root against him, think he's a giant crybaby AND also recognize that he's one of the best of all time.  A lot of people can't seem to understand this for some reason.

[purbeast]

Yeah because Lebron is the only NBA player that whines. 

 

Basically every NBA player in the past decade believes they have never committed a foul.  It's just part of the NBA now. 

 

I'm curious, why is he a "giant douche bag" as you claim?  And why is he the antithesis of an "ultra competitor", whatever that even is?

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I respect LeBron for being an all time great.  He's a fantastic basketball player.  I don't think you'd find anyone to deny that.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with making me feel good about myself...I feel just fine about myself with or without LeBron.  It has to do with everything that @tshile wrote below.

 

Sure, he had 40 last night but he had 31 of those in the first half, IIRC. And I am bringing this back to Jordan because by his own admission, Jordan is the guy LeBron wants to chase and be compared to...Jordan never would have let his foot off the gas pedal after dropping 31 in the first half in any playoff game.

 

But like I said, he's a great, great player.  However, I'd rather tell my kids about Kobe and Steph...Kobe because he was the closest you could get to a Jordan clone, Steph because he started to change the way we thought about how you could shoot a basketball and ushered in the 3 point era we're sitting squarely in right now.  And the Warriors, when they were on, they played a beautiful brand of basketball.

 

LeBron?  A freight train playing some kind of point/forward position, played a long time, won a lot of games, made a lot of finals appearances and craved everyone's respect and adoration.  

 

 

I absolutely root against him.  That said, to my point above and yours, you can root against him, think he's a giant crybaby AND also recognize that he's one of the best of all time.  A lot of people can't seem to understand this for some reason.

Jordan also wouldn't have been in a WCF game at the age of 38 putting up 31 points so he would never be in the same position as Lebron was last night.  

 

Jordan also had less mileage on him at that point.

 

I mean it's clear father time is catching up with Lebron.  He was clearly gassed in the 4th quarter so it makes sense why he let his foot off the gas pedal - he had no gas left.

 

I get that people want to compare him to Jordan, and it's going to happen because they were both the GOAT of their eras, but comparing players across eras just doesn't work.  It's the same in any sport really.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Yeah because Lebron is the only NBA player that whines. 

 

Basically every NBA player in the past decade believes they have never committed a foul.  It's just part of the NBA now. 

 

I'm curious, why is he a "giant douche bag" as you claim?  And why is he the antithesis of an "ultra competitor", whatever that even is?

 

Fine, other players complain.  I can't help it if LeBron's face is extra punchable when he whines.

 

When he won his championship in the bubble and he had this little moment:

 

 

"I want my damn respect," lol, like dude who doesn't give it to you?  Who denies you this ****ing "respect" that you're so thirsty for?  The dude's been getting respect since he was on a Sports Illustrated cover at 17.

 

Jordan, even though it was on his mind, wouldn't say that, he'd know winning was enough to get the respect.  Same with Kobe and Steph, too, I believe.

 

Let me summarize it this way:  I don't think Jordan, Kobe or Steph would give a **** if you told them you didn't like them.  LeBron would want to know why you don't like him.  And even if he didn't ask you why, he'd go home at night wondering why he wasn't universally adored by everyone.  Outside of Alex Rodriguez, I've never seen a pro athlete who wants to be liked so bad and it's obnoxious.  

4 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Jordan also wouldn't have been in a WCF game at the age of 38 putting up 31 points so he would never be in the same position as Lebron was last night 

 

 

[PeterMP]

34 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Sure, he had 40 last night but he had 31 of those in the first half, IIRC. And I am bringing this back to Jordan because by his own admission, Jordan is the guy LeBron wants to chase and be compared to...Jordan never would have let his foot off the gas pedal after dropping 31 in the first half in any playoff game.

 

Are you saying that Jordan never had a playoff game with a bad 2nd half?

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Are you saying that Jordan never had a playoff game with a bad 2nd half?

 

No, I'm saying after a few years in the league he never lost an elimination game.  

[tshile]

34 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Yeah because Lebron is the only NBA player that whines. 

 

Basically every NBA player in the past decade believes they have never committed a foul.  It's just part of the NBA now. 

 

I'm curious, why is he a "giant douche bag" as you claim?  And why is he the antithesis of an "ultra competitor", whatever that even is?

these are things some people get, or that make sense to them, and others don’t. 
 

you obviously don’t. Based on not even understanding what it means to be an ultra competitor when you’re at the top of professional sports. Or, if you can’t understand why he’s a giant douchebag - you don’t have to agree, or you could agree but say you don’t care.  
 

but you don’t see it. At all. And that’s fine. Some of us do. 
 

if I was assembling a team od all time greats - he’s not on it. Not because he doesn’t have the talent or statistics, but because he’s a whinny douchebag and anti-clutch. 
 

if I was picking a player to invest money in at the start of their career, looking for the biggest ROI on them turning into a star, he’d be at the top of my list. Although, without looking, I’m willing to think Jordan, tiger, and magic have him best there too. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I also know that if I had to pay to watch one of the two...I know exactly who I'd want to watch play in their prime.  

 

If anyone says they'd rather watch LeBron in his prime over Jordan, they're lying.

Me and @tshile against the LeWhine stans

 

 

 

[PeterMP]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

No, I'm saying after a few years in the league he never lost an elimination game.  

 

Ok.  Because it sure read like you were saying he never had a bad 2nd half to a playoff game. 

 

I will point out that at 38 Jordan's team was 37-45, didn't make the playoffs, and wasn't close to sniffing a CF.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Ok.  Because it sure read like you were saying he never had a bad 2nd half to a playoff game. 

 

I will point out that at 38 Jordan's team was 37-45, didn't make the playoffs, and wasn't close to sniffing a CF.

 

I will point out that at 38 Jordan was playing with Kwame Brown instead of someone like Anthony Davis.  But I'm sure you knew that.

[tshile]

I think @purbeastis spot in about the issue with comparing people from different eras

 

and it’s coming up right now. Comparing people in their late 30’s in this day and age of sports medicine, training, and dietary discoveries to someone from previous eras is absurd. Professional sports is a 365 thing now, and it starts when they’re in grade school. Kids don’t even do other sports not and there’s research in sports medicine to suggest this actually leads to more injuries at all stages of life. 
 

Before this era it was common for these guys to actually take significant time off in the off-season. To do things like smoke cigars regularly, etc. it’s really not a shock we have QB’s playing into their 40’s or world class athletes like James doing well in their late 30’s. 
 

and none of that is to take away from what any of them are doing. It’s a lot of effort and the results are clear. But asking why Jordan couldn’t do this when he was 38 is ridiculous. Who knows what Jordan would have been if he had the same access to resources from high school James did (Jordan couldn’t even make his high school team…) maybe he wouldn’t have put in the work. Maybe he would have. He didn’t have the choice at the time. The understanding and capabilities of sports medicine were nothing like they have been for the last 15 years. 

[PeterMP]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

Jordan couldn’t even make his high school team…

 

This isn't really true.  He couldn't make the varsity team as a sophomore in an era where it was rare for sophomores to make the varsity team just because coaches enforced a hierarchy.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1020151-michael-jordans-high-school-coach-exposes-another-mj-myth

 

He was the star of the JV team.

Edited May 23, 2023 by PeterMP

[tshile]

@purbeasti get you’re laughing at that post as if it was some sort of shot at you but it really wasn’t. 
 

some people care about, and recognize, these things and others don’t. And I think either way is fine. There isn’t a right answer - it’s very subjective what you choose to care about. It’s just sports…
 

It’s part of the reason I love Jimmy butler so much right now. When the lights are brightest he kicked it up 2 gears. *that* is what I like most about sports - the competitor standpoint. 
 

I also generally find him hilarious

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

8 minutes ago, tshile said:

I think @purbeastis spot in about the issue with comparing people from different eras

 

and it’s coming up right now. Comparing people in their late 30’s in this day and age of sports medicine, training, and dietary discoveries to someone from previous eras is absurd. Professional sports is a 365 thing now, and it starts when they’re in grade school. Kids don’t even do other sports not and there’s research in sports medicine to suggest this actually leads to more injuries at all stages of life. 
 

Before this era it was common for these guys to actually take significant time off in the off-season. To do things like smoke cigars regularly, etc. it’s really not a shock we have QB’s playing into their 40’s or world class athletes like James doing well in their late 30’s. 
 

and none of that is to take away from what any of them are doing. It’s a lot of effort and the results are clear. But asking why Jordan couldn’t do this when he was 38 is ridiculous. Who knows what Jordan would have been if he had the same access to resources from high school James did (Jordan couldn’t even make his high school team…) maybe he wouldn’t have put in the work. Maybe he would have. He didn’t have the choice at the time. The understanding and capabilities of sports medicine were nothing like they have been for the last 15 years. 

 

Not to mention all the time off current players take during the regular season with load management.  

[tshile]

Just now, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Not to mention all the time off current players take during the regular season with load management.  

And Jordan did the whole baseball thing. 
And he finished his career with the wizards 😂 and he didn’t have the benefit of creating his own super teams (I get the bulls were a well constructed team but it wasn’t like it has been since James left Cleveland the first time)

 

just very different eras. 
 

One thing I think is comparable across eras is competitiveness and leadership. 
 

nothings really changed about either of those things. Both show up in a variety of ways. But like porn, you know it when you see it (or when you don’t) 

[PeterMP]

Lebron was playing full NBA seasons and CF finals when Jordan was playing about 20 games a year in college.

 

And it isn't like people didn't play late in their career when Jordan was in the league.  Stockton played was a key part of a playoff team at 40.   Karl Malone played 82 games on a playoff team at 39.

 

The two QBs that have played late in their career didn't play much early, had a year off, and played on very good teams pretty much their whole career.

 

Even now, Lebron is the exception and not the rule and nobody really has comparable NBA minutes to him in todays.  NBA.  Lebron is 3rd in minutes in regular season minutes behind only Malone and Kareem and first in playoff minutes.

 

Even if you say that things are better and people are playing longer, Lebron is an exception.

 

And if playing that much for that long and doing what you have to do to be able to do that doesn't make you an ultra competitor then I don't know what doe.

Edited May 23, 2023 by PeterMP

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

And if playing that much for that long and doing what you have to do to be able to do that doesn't make you an ultra competitor then I don't know what doe.

Which, as I’ve said, is fine

 

i would put more emphasis on hiding in the corner in the finals when you’re losing, over a gym and dietary routine, when the question is whether someone is ultra competitive at the highest level of sports. But that’s just how I see things. 
 

And it’s ok if you don’t agree with me. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by tshile

[PeterMP]

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

Which, as I’ve said, is fine

 

i would put more emphasis on hiding in the corner in the finals when you’re losing, over a gym and dietary routine, when the question is whether someone is ultra competitive at the highest level of sports. But that’s just how I see things. 
 

And it’s ok if you don’t agree with me. 

 

But that's back to acting like Jordan never had a bad playoff game or a bad 2nd half to a playoff game.

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-06-01-sp-1414-story.html

 

"--Chicago’s Michael Jordan would take only eight shots in 46 minutes?

--Craig Hodges would lead Chicago in shots and points?"

 

A very good team was created that allowed Jordan to win (with same changing parts).  When it became clear that team was going to be broken up, Jordan went home.  Rather than go to another team and try to compete, he retired.

 

And when he did come back, he played on bad team that even in a bad conference wasn't even able to make the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong.  Jordan was a great player.  Maybe the greatest ever.  In his prime, he was the greatest of that era.  But there's too much mythology associated with him today.

Edited May 23, 2023 by PeterMP

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

But that's back to acting like Jordan never had a bad playoff game or a bad 2nd half to a playoff game.

I didn’t say that. 
 

and I would never hold it against James for having a bad playoff game or second half of a playoff game. 
 

I don’t really know what else to say here. There are a segment of sports fans that see and care about this sort of thing, and a segment that don’t. Some see it and don’t care, some just don’t even see it. 
 

and unfortunately - this isn’t a numbers or statistics thing. It’s not measurable. It’s an eye test thing. It’s a mental makeup thing. 
 

🤷‍♂️ 

 

 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, purbeast said:

The hating on Lebron today is pretty sad and pathetic. 

 

I mean the dude has been in the league for 20 years playing well more than 22 seasons with all the playoff games he has played in and put up a 40 piece and nearly had a triple double in an elimination game and they lost by 2 points and people are still hating on him.

 

I guess it makes them feel good about themselves though.

 

Woof...

 

LeBron averaged 29 ppg this season.  Incredible for someone his age.

 

He didn't those first three games of this series...the whole time watching game 4 it jus felt like him not wanting the season to end like that versus not wanting the season to end.

 

It was recommended he get season ending surgery on his foot and he refused until someone told he didn't need to.  He's doing stuff at 38 many players could never do...I wish he DNP and immediately focused on rehabbing for professional basketball at age 39.

 

Right now he's making it incredibly difficult to gage how he'll age out.  I believe he can make it 40, but up until last night it was starting to look like a possible hard crash with injuries in wrong places making deep post-season runs seem even longer.  Damn...think about how many damn near extra season he's played because of how many playoff series he's been in...

 

The right thing to do is have convo on how to protect LeBron, but last night looked like Ham had no say in how much James wanted to play, he went out his way.  It's a shame he doesn't seem to like playing for coaches that can match him and gun check him, but he needs that at this point in his career to protect him from himself. He ain't superman anymore.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Oh the sweet, sweet suffering…

[Hersh]

7 hours ago, tshile said:

Lebron is a giant douche bag and the antithesis of an ultra competitor. He also whines incessantly 

 

he’s clearly the one of the most talented/best players of all time. 
 

I don’t see how those ideas conflict. And many people, like me, root against him because of the first part. 

 

Antithesis of an ultra competitor?? 

 

Whatever one thinks of Lebron, he is definitely not the antithesis of an ultra competitor. Dude has worked his ass off like crazy and carried crap rosters to the finals. He would be in the gym within days of a season ending, whether as a champion or not, spending countless millions on keeping himself in the best health/shape possible.

[Cool Hwhip]

Younger fans are convinced that James is the best and nothing will every change their mind. I bet right now you could do a poll and the fair majority of people who think he is the GOAT are less than 30 years old. Yes, makes you sound stupid when you say he is overrated or whatnot; clearly he is one of the best to ever play the game, but MJ is the best and always will be. I would put Kobe in front of James, Wilt, probably one or two more.

 

Dude does not have class, however his cult of fans want to say that he does. I appreciate what he has done for kids and the less fortunate, fair play. However, when it comes to his basketball persona if you will, he has always left a lot to be desired.

 

And lastly, who's number did he decide to wear?😉

[Hersh]

7 hours ago, tshile said:

 

because he’s a whinny douchebag and anti-clutch. 

Anti-clutch?? You must be trolling or you aren’t really an NBA fan.