Gizmodo: The NSA Forced Verizon to Share Every US Customer's Phone Records

[Larry]

Aside:

Has anyone mastered the new quote button yet?

Assuming you're using the full (as opposed to mobile) version:

The first icon in the top line above your text entry box (which, I've been told, is supposed to look like a light awitch) changes your view to a view which displays all of the old, familiar (to some of us) UBB codes. (It also disables all of the other buttons.)

Click it, and now you can see all of the "quote" tags on all of the quotes that you're quoting. And get rid of a bunch of them, while still retaining the one you want.

[Larry]

It's surprising, to me, how it seems like, every time this subject comes up, ("Government demands records on all electronic communications for everybody, worldwide"), how people recite "the government isn't listening to your phone calls", as if that's some kind of defense.

Well, gee. If they're keeping track of every person I communicate with, and my location, 24-7, but they aren't actually recording the words that I speak, then I guess that's OK.

[Larry]

Yahoo article that's really basic, and freely admits that it's writing about things that are only vaguely specified. But I think it's good for a lot of basics. (Which is probably all I'm good for, anyway.)

Yahoo/AP: But wait, there's more: A domestic spying Q&A

 

Wait, there's more?

 

Yes, this was the week that America's intelligence secrets spilled out: Classified court orders. Top secret Power Point slides. Something called PRISM.

It's pretty important stuff, once you've made sense of it.

Here's what you need to know.

___

Q: The past two days have been packed with coverage about domestic surveillance. I have no idea what I'm hearing.

A: That's not a question. So let's start from the beginning, which in the national security world these days means going back to 9/11.

 

It's a really long article.  (Although, admittedly, it CAN'T be real specific.) 

[visionary]

http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/08/obama-administration-declassifies-details-on-prism-blasts-reckless-media-and-leakers/

Obama Administration Declassifies Details On “PRISM,” Blasts “Reckless” Media And Leakers

 

Facing a firestorm from liberals and conservatives over controversial counterterrorism surveillance programs, the Obama administration moved Saturday to declassify some details about a program to monitor foreign Internet traffic.

 

Following near-simultaneous reports from the Guardian and the Washington Post this week, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said that contrary to press reports, “PRISM is not an undisclosed collection or data mining program.” He maintained that the government computer system is authorized by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and is overseen by all three branches of the federal government. He said that the program does not target US citizens or anyone known to be in the United States, and pushed back on reports that the government has continuous access to Internet companies’ systems.

 

“Service providers supply information to the Government when they are lawfully required to do so,” he said.

 

[Larry]

Again with the "does not TARGET American citizens" defense.

Guess what? "Record all traffic on the Internet" does not TARGET American citizens. It DOES record every single thing they do. But the government can honestly say that it doesn't TARGET them.

----------

I will also point out the pesky detail that there's nothing in the constitution that implies one set of rules for citizens, and different rules for everybody else.

Monitoring all communications EXCEPT citizens isn't the government's job, either.

[GoSkins561]

Who would have thought the crazy Tea Party was on to something years ago?

 

Firsthand experience with these systems, and horror at their

capabilities, is what drove a career intelligence officer to provide

PowerPoint slides about PRISM and supporting materials to The Washington

Post in order to expose what he believes to be a gross intrusion on

privacy. “They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type,”

the officer said.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_print.html

And then they lost all credibility by voting for people like Mitt Romney Rubio and 75 percent of the rest of the Republican party.

[ixcuincle]

They found the guy who leaked all the documents. 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-why

 

 

Q: Does your family know you are planning this?

 

A: "No. My family does not know what is happening … My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with …

 

I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I am not going to be able to communicate with them. They [the authorities] will act aggressively against anyone who has known me. That keeps me up at night."

 

Q: When did you decide to leak the documents?

 

A: "You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realise that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.

 

"A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor."

 

Q: What is your reaction to Obama denouncing the leaks on Friday while welcoming a debate on the balance between security and openness?

 

A: "My immediate reaction was he was having difficulty in defending it himself. He was trying to defend the unjustifiable and he knew it."

 

Q: What about the response in general to the disclosures?

 

A: "I have been surprised and pleased to see the public has reacted so strongly in defence of these rights that are being suppressed in the name of security. It is not like Occupy Wall Street but there is a grassroots movement to take to the streets on July 4 in defence of the Fourth Amendment called Restore The Fourth Amendment and it grew out of Reddit. The response over the internet has been huge and supportive."

[zoony]

Every time we drill down into the specifics on this, it just isn't a big deal.

What I don't like, however, is that it was kept secret

[skinfan2k]

Nothing illegal was done.  The courts approved what the agency was doing.  The american public doesn't need to know everything.  It's a need to know business. 

[Larry]

Every time we drill down into the specifics on this, it just isn't a big deal.

Kinda curious as to how we get from "records on all enectronic communications, by everybody in the world" to "no big deal".

[Corcaigh]

Nothing illegal? The DNI lying to Congress in sworn testimony?

And just because FISA issued a warrant doesn't mean it's legal. This needs to be examined whether the 4th amendment and others have been violated.

The rationale to gather data on everyone on this scale is not to identify who is talking to the bad guys as that would involve just traffic connected to the bad guys. It's treating every single citizen as a possible enemy of the state and looking for patterns of behavior through social network analysis that auggest it is worthwhile directly targeting those people.

[visionary]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/10/the-nsa-files-edward-snowden?CMP=twt_gu

Republicans call for Snowden to be extradited

 

The NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden was condemned by US politicians and threatened with prosecution by the country's intelligence chief on Sunday after revealing himself as the Guardian's source for a series of explosive leaks on cyber surveillance.

 

A spokesman for the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said Snowden's case had been referred to the justice department and US intelligence was assessing the damage caused by the disclosures.

 

"Any person who has a security clearance knows that he or she has an obligation to protect classified information and abide by the law," the spokesman, Shawn Turner, said.

The Republican head of the House intelligence committee, Mike Rogers, said Snowden had "released just enough information to literally be dangerous".

 

But Snowden drew support from civil liberty activists and organisations. Jesselyn Radack, a former justice department attorney who represents whistleblowers, told Reuters: "As a whistleblower myself, this is one of the most significant leakers in my lifetime and in US history."

 

Radack said she hoped the case could become "a watershed moment that could change the war on whistleblowers and the broader war on information in our country".

 

Thomas Drake, a former NSA executive who famously leaked information about what he considered a wasteful datamining program at the agency, said of Snowden: "He's extraordinarily brave and courageous."

 

[twa]

Nothing illegal was done.  The courts approved what the agency was doing.  The american public doesn't need to know everything.  It's a need to know business. 

the secret court has also ruled against them, but since it is classified.........

 

How do you know ?

[ixcuincle]

Swonden a snitch

 

Bring him back to the US and take him in. No reason for him to be leaking secrets of utmost national security. Also, this busts conspiracy theories about how the government was behind 9/11. If the government really is that malicious, wouldn't someone have leaked it before 9/11 happened? 

[Larry]

And just because FISA issued a warrant doesn't mean it's legal. This needs to be examined whether the 4th amendment and others have been violated.

Now, the fact of a warrant does mean that a judge has looked at the reasons, and the laws (including the Constitution), and has said that it IS legal.

Means we have some judges that are wrong, too.

[SnyderShrugged]

Swonden a snitch

 

Bring him back to the US and take him in. No reason for him to be leaking secrets of utmost national security. Also, this busts conspiracy theories about how the government was behind 9/11. If the government really is that malicious, wouldn't someone have leaked it before 9/11 happened? 

If you think for even a moment that this doesnt significantly increase the credibility of some with a conspiracy theorist bent,  you are living a fantasy.

[CrabR]

my hats of the whistle blowers. When are gvt is wrong it is our duty to tell the public.

 

 

the Patriotic act is the biggest slap at freedom in the US. We do not need to be spied on by our gvt unless they have a warrant. People seem to think without gvt tapping our phones and reading our mail we will have all these terrorist  attacks. Well it will no happen.

 

911 was found out before it happened, we did not stop it simple because the FBI and CIA will not talk to each other. So we spend a trillion dollars and start a new Dept to spy on its citizens and guess what teh FBI and cai still do not talk to each other

 

The Patriotic act the is the American version of the 1933 Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State.

[ixcuincle]

Swonden a snitch

 

Bring him back to the US and take him in. No reason for him to be leaking secrets of utmost national security. Also, this busts conspiracy theories about how the government was behind 9/11. If the government really is that malicious, wouldn't someone have leaked it before 9/11 happened? 

If you think for even a moment that this doesnt significantly increase the credibility of some with a conspiracy theorist bent,  you are living a fantasy.

 

So again how does this disprove the conspiracy theorists that think that 9/11 was a government job? If it was a government job, wouldn't someone leak it? How come no one said anything? The government is allegedly going to kill its own people, and someone with morals didn't step up? 

 

Keep in mind I'm solely talking about that case and not conspiracy theorists for this case. 

 

I still think he a snitch. Anyway, he was making 200k as an infrastructure analyst. 

 

@AlecMacGillis 8:37 AM

#Snowden offers window into the post-9/11 Beltway boom: an "infrastructure analyst" making $200K. Northern VA is full of Snowdens.

 

Not bad. Get me one of those jobs, I'll look over all your phone data and I won't say ****. My lips are sealed.  

[gbear]

I have a hard time getting too worked up about our data being collected.  I saw a presentation by Paul Ohm, an Associate Professor at the University of Colorado Law School. He specializes in information privacy, computer crime law, and intellectual property.  He recently worked with the FTC as well.

 

After the presentation, I tried to write up some of his main points: http://thelifewelllived.blogspot.com/2013/06/nana-your-business-my-perception-of.html

 

Quite simply, our perception of privacy is an illusion.  The real question should be how to regulate the use of private information.

[Corcaigh]

Anyway, he was making 200k as an infrastructure analyst. 

 

@AlecMacGillis 8:37 AM

#Snowden offers window into the post-9/11 Beltway boom: an "infrastructure analyst" making $200K. Northern VA is full of Snowdens.

 

Not bad. Get me one of those jobs, I'll look over all your phone data and I won't say ****. My lips are sealed.

 

I'm struggling to believe a 29 year old with no track record and a GED is making $200k as an analyst. If true, apparently Booz Allen has no standards.

[SkinsHokieFan]

 

Anyway, he was making 200k as an infrastructure analyst. 

 

@AlecMacGillis 8:37 AM

#Snowden offers window into the post-9/11 Beltway boom: an "infrastructure analyst" making $200K. Northern VA is full of Snowdens.

 

Not bad. Get me one of those jobs, I'll look over all your phone data and I won't say ****. My lips are sealed.

 

I'm struggling to believe a 29 year old with no track record and a GED is making $200k as an analyst. If true, apparently Booz Allen has no standards.

 

Same here

 

Or that BAH is winning any work paying a 29 year old 200k. 

 

Lets say BAH has a 1.6 wrap and a 10 percent fee on top of that, you are talking about charging the gov't 160+ an hour 

[chipwhich]

SHF if he was working at a field site, odds are he was working more than 40 hour weeks.

 

Plus he probably gets some kind of living expense/per diem for being in Hawaii.

 

We don't know what the 200K consists of.

[Corcaigh]

 

 

Anyway, he was making 200k as an infrastructure analyst. 

 

@AlecMacGillis 8:37 AM

#Snowden offers window into the post-9/11 Beltway boom: an "infrastructure analyst" making $200K. Northern VA is full of Snowdens.

 

Not bad. Get me one of those jobs, I'll look over all your phone data and I won't say ****. My lips are sealed.

 

I'm struggling to believe a 29 year old with no track record and a GED is making $200k as an analyst. If true, apparently Booz Allen has no standards.

 

Same here

 

Or that BAH is winning any work paying a 29 year old 200k. 

 

Lets say BAH has a 1.6 wrap and a 10 percent fee on top of that, you are talking about charging the gov't 160+ an hour 

 

It's possible that BAH are billing $200k, so his salary is a fraction of that. But if the reporting is close to being correct, I bet BAH are pissed because if his background experience is accurate, he should not be employed in an analyst position.

[wantarace17]

HE could also be counting for bonuses, Healthcare and so on

[SkinsHokieFan]

SHF if he was working at a field site, odds are he was working more than 40 hour weeks.

 

Plus he probably gets some kind of living expense/per diem for being in Hawaii.

 

We don't know what the 200K consists of.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, he was making 200k as an infrastructure analyst. 

 

@AlecMacGillis 8:37 AM

#Snowden offers window into the post-9/11 Beltway boom: an "infrastructure analyst" making $200K. Northern VA is full of Snowdens.

 

Not bad. Get me one of those jobs, I'll look over all your phone data and I won't say ****. My lips are sealed.

 

I'm struggling to believe a 29 year old with no track record and a GED is making $200k as an analyst. If true, apparently Booz Allen has no standards.

 

Same here

 

Or that BAH is winning any work paying a 29 year old 200k. 

 

Lets say BAH has a 1.6 wrap and a 10 percent fee on top of that, you are talking about charging the gov't 160+ an hour 

 

It's possible that BAH are billing $200k, so his salary is a fraction of that. But if the reporting is close to being correct, I bet BAH are pissed because if his background experience is accurate, he should not be employed in an analyst position.

 

 

I agree that we do not know what the salary consists of. If he is in Hawaai he could be getting COLA/HOLA allowance and that could be included in there.

 

However the phrase was 200k salary. Which to me translates to base pay before uplifts.