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The Official ES Redskins Name Change Thread---All Things Related to Changing the Team's Name Go Here

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You're joking right? You cannot really be that ignorant in regards to US history and the native Americans.

Terms like "red man" have been used to describe them for centuries. You can't just ignore that

Obviously you have not read my previous posts.  The "Red" has to do with the red war paint.

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Footballs fans opinions clearly don't matter in this discussion.

All it takes is for a big sponsor like Pepsi or GMC to boycott and we're screwed. The debate is everywhere. It's even gone international if I remember correctly.

 

I'm gonna guess that the amount of $$$ generated by associating with an NFL team--especially one like the Skins, Cowboys or Packers--eases the guilty consciouses of those in charge at Pepsi and GMC lol. 80% of the country has zero problem with the team being called Redskins. That's a HUGE customer base to snub your nose at.

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I'm gonna guess that the amount of $$$ generated by associating with an NFL team--especially one like the Skins, Cowboys or Packers--eases the guilty consciouses of those in charge at Pepsi and GMC lol. 80% of the country has zero problem with the team being called Redskins. That's a HUGE customer base to snub your nose at.

Are those 80% not gonna buy Pepsi or not drive GMC because they boycott the Skins tho? I doubt it. Just because they have no problem with it doesn't mean they care. Hell, I would still buy my daily Pepsi even if they did.

I could see a scenario where Pepsi (or another sponsor) tries to get brownie points with the media and the like by taking that first step.

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It is about were the name is derived from, the history of the name, and its original meaning.  The war paint influenced the name redskins.  That is a fact.  You must be one of those people who don't like facts. Well that was fun!

 

Yes I am one of those people that don't like facts.  I also have negative feelings towards sunshine and true love.  

 

Influenced is one of those words that can mean a little or a lot.  I am not inclined to believe that red war paint, that does indeed look cool, was a major reason for the name and somehow never made it onto the logo at all.  

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Yes I am one of those people that don't like facts.  I also have negative feelings towards sunshine and true love.  

 

Influenced is one of those words that can mean a little or a lot.  I am not inclined to believe that red war paint, that does indeed look cool, was a major reason for the name and somehow never made it onto the logo at all.  

So what do you want to believe??  Do you believe that native american skin is red??

Where did the term RED come from??

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See that is hilarious to me!  There skin is not red, yet you say that is a touchy thing to say.  Lets use the same scenario with you.  I would be willing to bet that your skin is not the color blue.  So if I said you were the color blue would you be offended?? 

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Reading the comments on youtube for the commercial was actually pretty reassuring that more on our side. Media can be as loud as they want, but they don't have the majority support of the public, we do. So long as we fans stand strong too, the name isn't changing.

 

Can't believe they ran an ad saying they don't call themselves Redskins when that is the origin of the name and several NA high schools use it. This is coming from a group that does support the removal of ALL NA imagery from sports so if that radicalism gets brought up it won't favor them at all.

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Terms like "red man" have been used to describe them for centuries. You can't just ignore that

 

That is true.

 

                                                    sitting-bull-red-man.jpg?w=247&h=300

Edited by Spearfeather
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I don't want the name changed.

 

I will still rock my Redskins gear, regardless.  I'll probably have a LOT more of it if it changes and the prices are slashed to get rid of it.

 

I'll support the Washington Pink Unicorns if that is what they become.  The name is a sense of pride for me (Blackfoot and Cherokee in my family), but my love of the team isn't rooted to the name.

 

HTTR or HTTPU

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You can't be serious lol...

 

Completely.  I don't believe the team was named after red war paint.  Did Bruce Allen argue that the team name comes from red paint in his response to senators?  Did Ives Goddard find that the origin of the term redskin comes from red paint?  Did most of the redskin historians in this thread remember to note that it comes from red war paint in their versions pointing to GPM wanting to honor his coach or simply because of the baseball team?  

 

Now suddenly the team name is entirely innocent reference to red face paint?  If this was so it would be the main thrust of the teams defense against it's critics  This would be the silver bullet against claims that the team name references skin color.    

Edited by Destino

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Completely.  I don't believe the team was named after red war paint.  Did Bruce Allen argue that the team name comes from red paint in his response to senators?  Did Ives Goddard find that the origin of the term redskin comes from red paint?  Did most of the redskin historians in this thread remember to note that it comes from red war paint in their versions pointing to GPM wanting to honor his coach or simply because of the baseball team?  

 

Now suddenly the team name is entirely innocent reference to red face paint?  If this was so it would be the main thrust of the teams defense against it's critics  This would be the silver bullet against claims that the team name references skin color.    

Please enlighten us all as to where the term "Red" in redskins is derived from.  

You say you don't believe it has to do with the red war paint.  There color of native american skin is clearly not red.  You tell me where is the red coming from???

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Please enlighten us all as to where the term "Red" in redskins is derived from.  

You say you don't believe it has to do with the red war paint.  There color of native american skin is clearly not red.  You tell me where is the red coming from???

 

 

Ives Goddard "I am a Red-skin" reads as follows:

 

Eighteenth-century records do,

however, attest the emergence of the

use of the color terms red and white

by Native Americans as racial designations,

and the adoption of these

terms by Europeans in eastern North

America. The first uses of the term red

as a racial label that Shoemaker

(1997: 627) found are from 1725. In

that year a Taensa chief talking to a

French Capuchin priest in Mobile recounted

an origin story about a “white

man,” a “red man,” and a “black man”

(Rowland and Sanders 1927–1932, 2:

485–486), and a Chickasaw chief

meeting with the English Commissioner

for Indian Affairs at Savanna

Town referred to “White people” and

“red people” (George Chicken in

Mereness 1916: 169). As Shoemaker

(1997: 628) documents, this use of

“red” was soon adopted in both

French and English and was conventional

by the 1750s.

 

Here is a link to "How Indians Got to Be Red" by Nancy Shoemaker that Goddard references above.  She immediately addresses the red face paint origin and calls it a misconception.

 

So to answer your question, Goddard and Shoemaker believe that native americans were the first to describe themselves as red.  

Edited by Destino
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Congratulations, you found a liberal who made a theory and wrote about it.  Anyone can write such things and put them on the internet to push there agenda.  But in the end, native american skin is still not the color red.  Wasn't then, and it isn't now.  Today the name represents a football organization that proudly represents native american warriors.  Most native american's approve of the name, and claim that it keeps there history alive.  There are other sources on the internet if you do more research that do say the name is derived from red war paint, or the word you diss like "influenced".  Looks like there will continue to be "misconceptions".

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Congratulations, you found a liberal who made a theory and wrote about it.  Anyone can write such things and put them on the internet to push there agenda.  But in the end, native american skin is still not the color red.  Wasn't then, and it isn't now.  Today the name represents a football organization that proudly represents native american warriors.  Most native american's approve of the name, and claim that it keeps there history alive.  There are other sources on the internet if you do more research that do say the name is derived from red war paint, or the word you diss like "influenced".  Looks like there will continue to be "misconceptions".

 

No, their skin tone isn't literally red, nor are white people literally white, or black people literally black. They're generalized terms we learn in elementary school. As for the "liberal theory", it's a piece for the Smithsonian by a man with a Harvard PhD based on primary historical sources. 

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Congratulations, you found a liberal who made a theory and wrote about it. Anyone can write such things and put them on the internet to push there agenda. But in the end, native american skin is still not the color red. Wasn't then, and it isn't now. Today the name represents a football organization that proudly represents native american warriors. Most native american's approve of the name, and claim that it keeps there history alive. There are other sources on the internet if you do more research that do say the name is derived from red war paint, or the word you diss like "influenced". Looks like there will continue to be "misconceptions".

The quote that you wrote off as a "liberal who made a theory and wrote about it" is from the same work that the Bruce Allen referenced in his response letter to Harry Reid. Do you think the Redskins GM is also "one of those people who don't like facts"?

Edited by Destino
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^  Yeah I'm sure you were pouting like Harry Reid and the rest of his liberal cronies 5 years ago for the name change too right? 

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I just had a flash of J. Jonah Jameson.  I can picture him bursting in the newsroom screaming that we need to sell more papers.  Spider-Man sells papers, durn it, let's create a Spider-Man controversy.  Let's make him a villain!  That'll sell more papers.

 

Do I think that UnWise Mike and some of the media who are pushing this are that cynical.  It actually wouldn't surprise me.  Afterall, when did the name controversy re-emerge.  It was pretty dead for years and years, then RGIII's jersey becomes the top seller and the Redskins make the playoffs.  Spider-Man, I tell you!  Bash the hero to sell papers or drive ratings.

Most of the country cheers for the hero, but there are a few who hate that web slinging creep or believe what Jonah is pushing. The Redskins keep foiling bank robberies because they were trying to rob the bank themselves!

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Congratulations, you found a liberal who made a theory and wrote about it.  Anyone can write such things and put them on the internet to push there agenda.  But in the end, native american skin is still not the color red.  Wasn't then, and it isn't now.  Today the name represents a football organization that proudly represents native american warriors.  Most native american's approve of the name, and claim that it keeps there history alive.  There are other sources on the internet if you do more research that do say the name is derived from red war paint, or the word you diss like "influenced".  Looks like there will continue to be "misconceptions".

 

Um, if you're describing Goddard there, you're WAAAAAAY off.

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So you're saying I'm tough? So you're okay with the Redskins name living on even if it means that future players won't sign with us and every player will be distracted by off-the-field BS? I'm ready to win again and can let go of a name. We're still the same team and we're still in DC. That's all that should matter. Does the name mean that much to you?

Tough does not roll over when self serving media blowhards are trying to make a mockery out of our team.

 

Can you name one person who refused to sign with the Redskins because of our name?

 

Seriously, just name one?

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Are those 80% not gonna buy Pepsi or not drive GMC because they boycott the Skins tho? I doubt it. Just because they have no problem with it doesn't mean they care. Hell, I would still buy my daily Pepsi even if they did.

I could see a scenario where Pepsi (or another sponsor) tries to get brownie points with the media and the like by taking that first step.

 

The point is, when you're running a multi-million/billion dollar corporation, you don't try to deliberately do things that might make that happen. I guarantee you that nobody is gonna START drinking Pepsi because they took a stand against something the overwhelming majority of the US public doesn't feel is an issue.

 

There's nothing to be gained by these corporations by boycotting. And "gain" is what drives damn near every decision they make.

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Completely.  I don't believe the team was named after red war paint.

 

Well, I didn't mean that part lol...I got what you meant there.

 

What I was referring to was the idea that since the Skins' helmet emblem didn't show war paint on the profile it negated the theory that "Redskin" was rooted in the practice of NA's applying red war paint before battle.

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Please do not associate all liberals / progressives with wanting to change the name.  I'm pretty darn liberal / progressive, I hate the tea party / fox news crap and most everything they spew, but I am also in favor of keeping the name.

 

To me and every single person I know, the only thing Redskins means is a football team.  No one I've ever met has thought otherwise or used the word in a derogatory way (unless talking **** about the team).

 

Having said that, I can't help but feel that the name will eventually change.  If it does, I've only heard three options I like:  Natives, Braves (original name), or nothing (just Washington).  Everything else is stupid.

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The point is, when you're running a multi-million/billion dollar corporation, you don't try to deliberately do things that might make that happen. I guarantee you that nobody is gonna START drinking Pepsi because they took a stand against something the overwhelming majority of the US public doesn't feel is an issue.

 

There's nothing to be gained by these corporations by boycotting. And "gain" is what drives damn near every decision they make.

I think the important point here is about branding.  Now, it's probably less important in sports because of the branding of the league itself, but what would happen to Pepsi if they decided to call it something else.  Same recipe, same can or bottle, same serving size?  It would lose huge marketshare.  Name recognition and branding equals big money.

 

To your point, the question is will people boycott drinking Pepsi over the name.  So far, that whisper hasn't happened.  With the Sterling mess the sponsors began pulling out because there was real fear about money.  To date, no sponsors are fleeing.  That makes me think that this smoke is dry ice versus fire.

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