'American Sniper' author Chris Kyle fatally shot at Texas gun range

[KDawg]

But then again, he liked killing.

Would it be fair, then, to note that you must have liked killing as well? Seeing how you joined the military?

Or is that an unfair idea, and perhaps you just wanted to serve your country, or the military offered you the best future. Did you perform your job in the military to the best of your ability?

[skinsmarydu]

Would it be fair, then, to note that you must have liked killing as well? Seeing how you joined the military?

Or is that an unfair idea, and perhaps you just wanted to serve your country, or the military offered you the best future. Did you perform your job in the military to the best of your ability?

First of all, I joined because the military offered me the best future. I joined the Navy, not well-known at the time for "killing". And if you call painting a submarine tender and getting it out to sea to avoid hurricanes, I did that extremely well. I'm very small and light, so I was very easy to maneuver in a boatswain's chair over the side. I was pummeled by water and winds, but I managed to get the lines off so we could leave port and not be crashed into the pier. Three different times.

USS Canopus.

[KDawg]

First of all, I joined because the military offered me the best future. I joined the Navy, not well-known at the time for "killing". And if you call painting a submarine tender and getting it out to sea to avoid hurricanes, I did that extremely well. I'm very small and light, so I was very easy to maneuver in a boatswain's chair over the side. I was pummeled by water and winds, but I managed to get the lines off so we could leave port and not be crashed into the pier. Three different times.

USS Canopus.

First, thank you for serving our country.

And thank you for doing your job.

The same respect I have for you, I have for Chris Kyle. Unfortunately, in this world we live in, someone is needed to kill or others will be killed.

I didn't join the military, in any capacity, because despite my fondness of a good sanctioned fight, or contact sports, I could never kill another human being. And no matter what the job, it's always a possibility.

He did his job. So perhaps you shouldn't be so hard on him, or say things like "he enjoyed killing".

[visionary]

Ron Paul appears to be getting a lot of heat for his comments on this....

https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/298477312876355585

Chris Kyle's death seems to confirm that "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword." Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn't make sense

12:05 PM 4 Feb 13

[mjah]

He made a lot of money in the military?

I have no clue how much Seals get paid, but I know from my enlisted friends they do not make "a lot of money".

You do realize that the imminent danger and hazardous duty pay adds up to a grand total of about $375 per month, don't you? I certainly wouldn't call that making a lot of money.

While I have mixed feelings about the rest of what mboyd said, he said the guy killed a lot of people and did it for the purpose of making some money -- not that he made a lot of money in the military, an interpretation that is showing up multiple times in here.

Always interesting to see what people will put in quotes, as if they're ... quoting something the other guy said. Gotta be careful with that.

Normally I'd see this as a minor point, but seeing what is being made of it, clearly it is not a minor point in everybody's eyes. If mboyd offended your sensibilities, let's at least ding him for what he actually said. He certainly didn't accuse the sniper of gaining any inordinate amount of wealth by serving in the Navy.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth: Ron Paul has a point about the specific decision to take a PTSD sufferer to the gun range, and there's clearly a strong message in here about the prospect of heading off shootings by surrounding would-be killers with armed and trained people. Those conversations inevitably will be colored by this incident and that's to be expected.

[nuposse87]

1. Grow up with a strong desire to kill people for money

2. Enlist in unjust occupation of third-world country and kill lots of people for money.

3. Return home and write a book about how great you are at killing people...for money.

4. In an attempt to "give back", start taking mentally disturbed men, who also enjoy the idea of killing people, to gun ranges as a form of "therapy".

5. Receive bullet to the head from one of said men in event of startling predictability.

Early contender for a 2013 Darwin award, IMO. RIP.

I guess its ironic how he died...But I wouldn't say its a Darwin award type thing. He was taking a risk in helping people who needed help, that much of his career was commendable I'd say.

Even if certain people need to be killed, I'm not sure that's a profession that ought to be glorified by society, however big the "need" may be.

I feel bad for his family though, think he had some young kids left behind.

[DisplacedRedskinsFan]

While I have mixed feelings about the rest of what mboyd said, he said the guy killed a lot of people and did it for the purpose of making some money -- not that he made a lot of money in the military, an interpretation that is showing up multiple times in here.

Always interesting to see what people will put in quotes, as if they're ... quoting something the other guy said. Gotta be careful with that.

Normally I'd see this as a minor point, but seeing what is being made of it, clearly it is not a minor point in everybody's eyes. If mboyd offended your sensibilities, let's at least ding him for what he actually said. He certainly didn't accuse the sniper of gaining any inordinate amount of wealth by serving in the Navy.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth: Ron Paul has a point about the specific decision to take a PTSD sufferer to the gun range, and there's clearly a strong message in here about the prospect of heading off shootings by surrounding would-be killers with armed and trained people. Those conversations inevitably will be colored by this incident and that's to be expected.

Good catch. I mis-read, and mis-spoke based off of that. My apologies.

I still think the post was.......well I will just leave it at I disagree and think it was in poor taste.

[twa]

I guess its ironic how he died...But I wouldn't say its a Darwin award type thing. He was taking a risk in helping people who needed help, that much of his career was commendable I'd say.

Even if certain people need to be killed, I'm not sure that's a profession that ought to be glorified by society, however big the "need" may be.

I feel bad for his family though, think he had some young kids left behind.

I can see irony, especially with a price on his head

I don't see where we(as a whole) really glorify shooters(with the possible exception of air force aces)

we don't even give them bonuses....should at least be a bounty paid (since we put them on other heads)

[Special K]

My opinion, for whatever it's worth: Ron Paul has a point about the specific decision to take a PTSD sufferer to the gun range, and there's clearly a strong message in here about the prospect of heading off shootings by surrounding would-be killers with armed and trained people. Those conversations inevitably will be colored by this incident and that's to be expected.

Well, my opinion, for what it's worth, is that Ron Paul is a jackass. My opinion has been reaffirmed by the comments he made regarding this tragedy.

Maybe when he becomes a psychiatrist or psychologist who specializes in war vet PTSD therapy, I'll listen to what comes out of his mouth.

What a jack. Seriously.

[Hitman21ST]

1. Grow up with a strong desire to kill people for money

2. Enlist in unjust occupation of third-world country and kill lots of people for money.

3. Return home and write a book about how great you are at killing people...for money.

4. In an attempt to "give back", start taking mentally disturbed men, who also enjoy the idea of killing people, to gun ranges as a form of "therapy".

5. Receive bullet to the head from one of said men in event of startling predictability.

Early contender for a 2013 Darwin award, IMO. RIP.

Way to be a complete jackass. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

[Dan T.]

I strongly disagree with mboyd's post but fail to see the rule breaking nature of it. I'm professing my continued ignorance in that regard.

[Predicto]

I don't agree with mboyd, but I can see how a pacifist might feel that way, and might express himself that way.

Nevertheless, the mods are the best judges of how to keep the peace around here, and nothing we do is done in a vacuum. :whoknows:

[nuposse87]

I can see irony, especially with a price on his head

I don't see where we(as a whole) really glorify shooters(with the possible exception of air force aces)

we don't even give them bonuses....should at least be a bounty paid (since we put them on other heads)

Are people not lauding him for his superior marksmanship? He's an elite sniper, I know plenty who have described being as one of those as "awesome." It seems kind of primal to me, to glorify someone for a superior ability to kill others. Although I think you're more admiring his service in the military than his ability to kill, no?

[twa]

My opinion, for whatever it's worth: Ron Paul has a point about the specific decision to take a PTSD sufferer to the gun range, and there's clearly a strong message in here about the prospect of heading off shootings by surrounding would-be killers with armed and trained people. Those conversations inevitably will be colored by this incident and that's to be expected.

It is a common activity and shared experiences, bonding and group cohesion seem to help them(but I'll leave that to the experts)

as far as the heading off shootings bit, this incident has no bearing imo

the fact someone you trust can shoot you whether armed or not does not compare to reacting defensively to known danger (which is the purpose behind armed guards/teachers ect)....reactive vs proactive

[mjah]

Well, my opinion, for what it's worth, is that Ron Paul is a jackass. My opinion has been reaffirmed by the comments he made regarding this tragedy.

Maybe when he becomes a psychiatrist or psychologist who specializes in war vet PTSD therapy, I'll listen to what comes out of his mouth.

What a jack. Seriously.

I can't defend his timing, nor the first sentence of his tweet, nor the fact that he took to the juvenile and hopelessly stultifying medium of Twitter to make his point in the first place. But one need not be a PTSD-expert psychologist to agree with the notion that "Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn't make sense."

as far as the heading off shootings bit, this incident has no bearing imo

the fact someone you trust can shoot you whether armed or not does not compare to reacting defensively to known danger (which is the purpose behind armed guards/teachers ect)....reactive vs proactive

The nature of mass shootings is not so easily subdivided. Fellow student, fellow faculty, fellow serviceman, fellow gun enthusiast, etc... these shootings are often (though not always) accomplished by abusing an established bond of trust within a defined and segmented group of people who share a common interest of some kind. There is often trust well beforehand, always an immediate defensive reaction of some kind once the bullets fly, and rarely any acutely identified, "known" and actionable danger in between. Just a lot of would/could/should after the fact.

It's an incredibly expensive way to learn.

[twa]

Are people not lauding him for his superior marksmanship? He's an elite sniper, I know plenty who have described being as one of those as "awesome." It seems kind of primal to me, to glorify someone for a superior ability to kill others. Although I think you're more admiring his service in the military than his ability to kill, no?

Some laud them,others fear or even hate them.

I admire ability and proficiency in most all things........we sent him to kill,and he stayed within our rules.....any stain is on our hands

I can no more fault him than my own....nor do I wish them incompetent

[nuposse87]

Some laud them,others fear or even hate them.

I admire ability and proficiency in most all things........we sent him to kill,and he stayed within our rules.....any stain is on our hands

I can no more fault him than my own....nor do I wish them incompetent

Well I don't fear or hate him, maybe I'm aiming (no pun intended) for indifference.

You are right though, it is the government that ends up being responsible for fostering wars to showcase this sort of ability. I am glad he was protecting other troops rather he be born into the opposition.

BTW I'm not prithee to this, but could the murderer get the death penalty in Texas...even though he was dealing with a disorder.

[TheGoodBits]

Some laud them,others fear or even hate them.

I admire ability and proficiency in most all things........we sent him to kill,and he stayed within our rules.....any stain is on our hands

I can no more fault him than my own....nor do I wish them incompetent

Well said. He served admirably in an impossibly hard job and operated with amazing proficiency. For that reason he should be respected and deserves the “glory” he has received. Morality is out of the question when he’s doing what he’s been sent there to do.

[twa]

BTW I'm not prithee to this, but could the murderer get the death penalty in Texas...even though he was dealing with a disorder.

Yes, a disorder does not automatically rule it out

If he is active military they will likely handle it though

add

he is out of the service and has been charged with 2 counts of capital murder....the death penalty is certainly in play

[visionary]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21331016

Chris Kyle murder: Suspect Eddie Ray Routh subdued in jail

An Iraq war veteran charged with murdering an ex-US Navy Seal sniper has been restrained in his cell after becoming aggressive, say officials.

Texas jail guards said they used a stun gun on Eddie Ray Routh, 25, after he became belligerent and refused to hand back his food tray.

He is accused of shooting Chris Kyle, author of 2012 bestseller American Sniper, and another man at a gun range.

Mr Routh was reportedly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Kyle, 38, is said to have been helping him deal with the condition.

Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant said guards had used the stun gun after Mr Routh appeared ready to attack them.

[Special K]

I can't defend his timing, nor the first sentence of his tweet, nor the fact that he took to the juvenile and hopelessly stultifying medium of Twitter to make his point in the first place. But one need not be a PTSD-expert psychologist to agree with the notion that "Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn't make sense."

You may be right. I've heard differently though.

I'm not a mental health expert, but I have heard that going to a gun range may help some PTSD patients. It's an activity that is familiar to the individual and can actually help them cope. It may not make sense to us, but I've heard army vets say this.

[Hitman21ST]

Yes, a disorder does not automatically rule it out

If he is active military they will likely handle it though

add

he is out of the service and has been charged with 2 counts of capital murder....the death penalty is certainly in play

I'm pretty sure that Texas "fast-tracks" multiple murderers on death row. As famed philosopher Ron "Tater Salad" White said:

"Some states are working to abolish the death penalty; Texas is putting in an express lane"

[Prosperity]

So should folks w/ PTSD be allowed to have weapons? Seems like most people agreed that the mentally ill shouldn't have access to firearms back in the school shooting discussions

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Paul's statement implies a life of violence for the sake of violence and self service. Chris Kyle's life was anything but.

[@DCGoldPants]

Over the past few days I've read that shooting can have a positive OR negative impact on somebody suffering from PTSD. If that's the case and its good for some while bad for others, what can you do? Common sense says look for something different all together that works for more while not doing the firing range thing anymore. This is a mental state thing you're dealing with here. Play it safe and avoid a repeat of this situation as much as you can.