thebluefood Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 You know what's weird? This team was defined by stellar special teams play for nearly 20 years, through three head coaches. What the hell happened?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I guess it will take a long time for Bang to accept that the reason that special teams has sucked is because the bottom half of this roster has sucked for years, and a simple change of coaches wasn't going to change that. Some people seem to expect miracles from NFL coaches, when the reality is that talent and desire matter. If you don't have it, you won't be a good special teamer. Yeah, it is a no brainer why we haven't had good special teams: we've been a mediocre to bad team for the past decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 So what's Pittsburgh's excuse? Buffalo's? Philly's? Everywhere he's been the results are the same. He ALWAYS has the worst guys in the league? Maybe we currently have some bad players because we had a bad special teams coach for seven years. We're hardly in a position to change much of the roster. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 So what's Pittsburgh's excuse? You mean the team that just got its first win last week? Edit: Oh yeah, and Suisham was a big part of that victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yes, the team that just got it's first win last week, a veteran team with veterans playing special teams. What,, Danny can't fix the trash he was handed in five games? But Burns can? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzfever2010 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yes, the team that just got it's first win last week, a veteran team with veterans playing special teams. What,, Danny can't fix the trash he was handed in five games? But Burns can? ~Bang I feel for you right now Bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Bang, I love ya buddy but I think you are wrong on this one. The redskins biggest problem for years has been lack of quality talent and depth due to the failure of the snyderato era. Now with the salary cap penalty things have only gotten worse. Danny Smith may or may not be a good ST coordinator, but he sure wasn't the root cause of our problem which right now is an unfair salary cap penalty tying one hand behind our backs. Coaches cant "fix trash", all they can do is help players play the best that they can. Players can play or they cant. And sometimes veterans are just old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yes, the team that just got it's first win last week, a veteran team with veterans playing special teams. What,, Danny can't fix the trash he was handed in five games? But Burns can? ~Bang Actually, it looks like ST has improved a lot for Pittsburgh since preseason. Also, in my research, it sounds like ST for the Steelers hasn't been good for a few years. Also, I'm not one of those out for Burns' head right now. It is hard to say from a small sample size whether Burns is any good as a coach. All I know is that this team has issues rosterwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The team does have issues, and hopefully the last thing i ever have to say about danny smith is his teams stunk regardless of the roster changes or regime, or even team he was with.right now the Steelers STs are marginally better than ours in practically every statistical category. If Burns isn't getting it done, that's not a reason to think Danny was either. I don't think many people would be actively wanting Burns fired, although Sheehan thought so today on his radio show.. most folks realize he's new. I hate bad special teams play.. because so much of it is simply discipline. I grew up in the Allen era.. we have always been browbeaten on how important special teams are, and Sunday night was a prime example. It's got to get better. I'm sure we all agree. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 John Keim @john_keim Niles Paul says some players haven't yet bought into Keith burns system and scheme. Says more result of coaching change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 John Keim @john_keim Niles Paul says some players haven't yet bought into Keith burns system and scheme. Says more result of coaching change That's damning of Burns. That is not praising of Danny Smith. I think that's what Bang has been saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadams5214 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 So his excuse in Philly was...? And now in Pittsburgh is..? He was here with playoff teams, same results. He now has a vet team.. same results. The excuses don't cut it when the result is the same no matter what. All this respect, all this time to create a better result, and it never gets better. not even average.. Danny's special teams are eternal bottom dwellers, regardless of where he's been, who he's had, or how long he's had to work on it. That fact just simply won't go away. All the respect in the world doesn't change it. ~Bang Agree with the thoughts on Danny Smith. A scary thought comes to mind though when detailing Danny Smith's poor special teams at each of his stops, yet getting hired, keeping a job and being respected by other coaches --- His "resume'" looks an awful lot like ANOTHER coach on the Skins in Jim Haslett. Haslett has historically fielded mediocre to poor defensive units throughout his career yet he has been hired by multiple coaches, keeps a job in the NFL and even got hired as head coach. Doesn't reflect well on Shanahan to keep on/hire TWO coaches of the 3 main units of a team who have been in the league as coaches for years yet consistently produced poor results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 That's damning of Burns. That is not praising of Danny Smith. I think that's what Bang has been saying. I think you read too much into what I posted. It is just a datapoint without any inference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 John Keim @john_keim Niles Paul says some players haven't yet bought into Keith burns system and scheme. Says more result of coaching change I always hate reading things like this. Players: It's your JOB to buy into what the coach is trying to teach you, that is what they pay you to do. Especially on special teams when so many of them are only collecting a check because they need guys to cover kicks. You could probably count on one hand the number of special teams specialists(excluding K and P) with the talent level to go demanding trades to teams with coaches that they buy into. hell, maybe on three fingers... or one. (Hey Burnsie! that ONE is coming to town this week. Best be ready!) This is an indictment of the coach, but it is also an indictment of some players who need to grow up and get it in their heads to act like professionals. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I think you read too much into what I posted. It is just a datapoint without any inference. the quote from Niles was something to the effect of "there are trust issues and guys aren't necissarily buying in". It was an inference by Keim to suggest that it was due to a coaching change. It's LIKELY due to a coaching change, but it could be that Burns wears Ranger Pannies in the special teams meetings and makes everyone uncomfortable and making it hard to concentrate. Keep in mind, also, the media here LOVED Danny Smith. They won't hold punches right now (especially Russell) to paint it like we don't know our ass from our elbows now that he's gone. When simply put, we've gone from bad to worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 This is an indictment of the coach, but it is also an indictment of some players who need to grow up and get it in their heads to act like professionals. ~Bang QFT They are paid a lot of money to play a child's game. If not "buying in" is part of the problem, some of them need to put their big boy pants on and do their job. While they are not "buying in" the whole country is laughing at how bad they were Sunday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadams5214 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Quotes like this from Niles could offer some insight to his own struggles. Maybe if he bought in to what the coaches are saying he would be a better player right now. A guy that supposedly has all the tools and who Shanahan said reminded him of Shannon Sharpe yet still hasn't developed anywhere close to his supposed potential might need to pay more attention to his coaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Danny Smith special teams had great coverage scheme. He was never able to find a KR, PR and Kicker and that was his downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You know, people should follow up with Keim's actual article, which kinda explains itself. http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/1691/redskins-havent-fully-bought-into-special-teams Basically, he's saying that he's asking players to play differently than under Smith and a different coaching style, which given how long Smith was here was an adjustment. Also, the loss of vets on ST has hurt coverage. My ultimate point is as it always has been: it is about the players. You can teach them all you want, but if theyu don't have the will or desire to play how you want them to play, there isn't much to do. Course, Shanahan's response? Of course Burns needs to prove himself. All young coaches do. http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/1709/mike-shanahan-says-coaches-must-earn-trust Sorry for the brief shot, but I was on my way out the door and couldn't follow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 That's damning of Burns. That is not praising of Danny Smith. I think that's what Bang has been saying. He's also trying to get some people in here to stop pining away for Danny Smith, which is his MAIN point. I mean, our STs sucked with Danny Smith and it really hasn't gotten any worse. Redskin fans are the worst at looking at the past and not moving forward. We look and talk way too much about three SBs won by players who are now in their 60s and 50s. I don't know how many times over the past 10 years I've seen people want to run "Riggo Drill" not to mention the incessant "nickname" thing because of all the nicknames from the 80s teams. Maybe Burns is not the answer. But Danny Smith sure as hell isn't something we need to go back to. Please for the love of god, if any of you want to make a valid point against what Bang is saying, at least come up with a solution going FORWARD and not looking back. Sorry DC9, not directed at you, just building off what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Even if it has gotten worse and folks lament that "we went from bad to worse" they forget the last part was BAD.And danny's teams gave up kicks. One thing I've never had stats to prove is how many times they gave up long returns in really clutch situations.. a game against the Texans a few years ago comes to mind.. we really needed it pinned in, and they gave Jacoby Jones something like a 45 yd return that set up that epic battle of Reed Doughty vs Andre johnson in the closing seconds.. Danny's teams had good coverages, but occasionally returns happen to the best of them. (Which we're clearly not.) And sometimes, the shove that Paul got in the photo above is all it takes. lets strive for good for a change. We as a fan base are too used to failure. Since LeCharls McDaniel our special teams have been bad. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sorry DC9, not directed at you, just building off what you said. Oh no worries, I touched on much of the same in another thread, PJ. To summarize, we've simply gone from "Bad Special Teams" to "Really Bad Special Teams". But I totally agree with the fanbase. Don't get me started on the guys who want to run coutner-trey stil, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Anecdotally, the last time we faced Dallas last year (with Smith) and the first time we faced them this year (with Burns) were pretty similar. Because we won last December, many seem to forget that Harris returned the first punt down the right sideline deep into our territory. The D bailed us out by intercepting Romo sits to pee on third down. Late in the game, with a 21-10 lead, we let Harris come down the left sideline and only prevented a TD return when Rocco tackled him by his facemask. Dallas went on to score and convert the 2-pointer to pull within 3. That and our ensuing punt is what set up Romo sits to pee's classic choke. Had Romo sits to pee driven the Cowboys down the field for a TD or FG there, a primary failure would have been our poor coverage against Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never4Get21 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 How can you say Steelers Special Teams are only marginally better than the Redskins right now. Redskins 32 in Punt Coverage, Steelers 19th (Which I'm not saying is good but still a big difference) Redskins 29 in Kickoff Coverage, Steelers 4th. I also believe the Steelers special teams coach hasn't gotten any unsportsmanlike conduct penalties throughout his 19 years in the NFL but it only took Burns 5 games. I thought the numbers were the focus here? The numerous amounts of Super Bowl winning head coaches supporting him doesn't matter to you. The players that no longer play for him still supporting him mean nothing. I'm just looking at numbers here. I can't wait til after this week to compare numbers against the Bears because Devin Hester will rip these special teams apart when the Steelers shut him down a few weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.