Per Dan Hellie Twitter: (Bang you finally got your wish) Danny Smith leaving for Pittsburgh

[PorkSkins]

I never had a problem with Danny Smith. His replacement is a joke. He literally can't get out of his own way (see flag). Does anyone have Rusty Tillman's cell number?

[@DCGoldPants]

They want Smith gone in Pittsburgh already. I wouldn't be shocked if he's not their ST Coach next year. 

 

Accountability in coaching seems to be a major weakness under Shanny. Never have been impressed with Haslett. Smith was awful, But  they did a poor job replacing him. That's on the Org.

[Bang]

They want Smith gone in Pittsburgh already. I wouldn't be shocked if he's not their ST Coach next year. 

 

Accountability in coaching seems to be a major weakness under Shanny. Never have been impressed with Haslett. Smith was awful, But  they did a poor job replacing him. That's on the Org.

 

Oh, but once he's gone, they'll know what they missed.

 

 

Burns is new. I'm willing to allow for growing pains, especially given the truth behind Collinsworth's comment last night.

BUT he's got to get them better.. more disciplined. Last night had a few positives.. but they were totally wiped out by the MASSIVE negatives.

And  I have NEVER seen a coach called for unsportsmanlike for the way he did last night. Get off the stripe, dopey. (Stay in your LANE.)

 

~Bang

[bowhunter]

Bang was (and is) correct. Danny Smith was a bad special teams coach who could not see or predict the weaknesses in his playcalling and formations. Regardless of talent, no ST player was ever developed in being truly special. Lorenzo possibly being the sole exception based upon his motor. For 7 years, our ST sucked. The fact that his replacement was not an upgrade doesn't detract from the facts anymore than does saying that Spurrier must have been a good NFL coach because Zorn was no better. I'm sure that Bang would be ecstatic if we were looking for Burns replacement as we speak.

[Bang]

Sorry bang, I usually appreciate your opinion but I'll take more than one professional coach's opinion over yours on Danny Smith's capabilities.

As if I actuially can do anything to affect change... Honestly, i think some folks here really DO think my opinion had something to do with Smith's leaving.

Opinions are opinions, facts are facts.

Numbers do not lie.

~Bang

[Commander PK]

Keith Burns struggling hardly proves that Smith should not have been fired.  It was definitely time to go in a new direction.  The problem right now is the new direction has been no better thus far than the old one.  

 

So you keep looking.  Maybe Burns is not the long-term answer.

 

Edit: and yes I know Smith left of his own accord...but he should have been fired.  

[#98QBKiller]

I would take Danny Smith back in a heartbeat right now over the turd that we have coaching special teams. We looked like a high school football team trying to cover kickoffs and punts last night, completely embarrassing. 

[TD Riggo]

 

... but Smith was no where near this bad ever and in fact if people would have looked around the league and seen what other teams special teams units were like we might not have been so keen to give him a shove out the door.

 

 

Well, to be fair .. Smith WAS (even at least in part) responsible for the "swinging gate" play that we all know and love.

[MustangSteve]

Only the Redskins would hire a ST coach worse than Danny Smith

This is the final answer! Danny Smith was not a good ST coach and just because we hired someone worse doesn't make him. It simply means we hired the wrong ST coach.

[skins island connection]

 Burns.  Is that Jerry Burns? The 148 year-old Jerry Burns?

Nah, couldn't be; even an OLD MAN knows to stay off the line.

 

He actually looked like he was more of a spectator than a coach.  Smith is better than Burns, but only by a hair. There has to be a search for a better ST coach; when a new coach comes in, in most cases the results are good, at least at first. Burns has done just that; burn Danny boy's money...

 

Bring on BMitch for ST coach !

[mikemac9]

Guys, Danny Smith was allowed to leave specifically for Pittsburgh because he and his family is from there and his parents are super ill. This allowed him to be closer to them and his family while dealing with that. It was actually a gentlemen's move/classy move by our organization to allow it to happen. 

[Never4Get21]

Sorry bang, I usually appreciate your opinion but I'll take more than one professional coach's opinion over yours on Danny Smith's capabilities.

This is right on. Regarded as one of the best at his job for a reason. Unfortunately bad teams will always have bad special teams because they have no depth

Comments attached from former great special teams players Mike Sellers and Leigh Torrence

[skinsfan1523]

I don't know if Smith would be the answer but damn are special teams suck. Constant penalties, no return yardage, returning kicks when they should let them go, and it all came to a head sunday night when they cost us any chance of winning the game. It's so frustrating because we can never get all three phases working together at the same time, so frustrating.

[Bang]

This is right on. Regarded as one of the best at his job for a reason. Unfortunately bad teams will always have bad special teams because they have no depth

Comments attached from former great special teams players Mike Sellers and Leigh Torrence

 

Special teams players always love their coach.

Know why?

Because he is who keeps them on the team.

Veterans who play nothing but special teams know that he is the only guy between them and the street. 

 

Results.

Quotes and comments are nice, but results are what matters.

If you can't produce them,  i don't care how much players love you or how much respect you get.

 

 

Currently the Steelers are 27th in net punting, 25th in net kickoffs, 25th in kickoff returns, and 20th in punt returns (WITH one that went 40 yards for a score. They have had 8 punt returns so far, and 56 yards. Without the 40 yarder they are averaging less than 2 yards per return.)

Oh, and hey ,, here is something we're all used to out of Danny's special teams,, the Steelers are 2nd in fair catches.

So here's a guy with a veteran team,. all this experience, all this respect, and he can't produce.

 

Cry for him all you want.

 

What's his excuse in Pittsburgh now?

 

~Bang

[techboy]

Three of the last four people to hire/retain him have been Super Bowl winning coaches (Gibbs, Shanahan, Tomlin). And Jim Zorn. Moreover, I don't want to dig it up again, but in the past I cited news articles where interest was expressed by well-respected coaches such as John Fox and Andy Reid. I think there were more, but the archives are no longer accessible due to the changeover, and I'm not going to take the time to research it again.

I could accept that one, or maybe two, of those made a poor judgement. Shanahan in particular seems to have a stubborn loyalty to people that might not be hired anywhere else in some cases.

I have a very difficult time, however, accepting the idea that this many excellent coaches, who have access to information and film we simply don't, are wrong and the fans sitting on their couch are correct. Just can't go there.

What I can tell you that all of Smith's most recent teams seem to have in common is poor depth/success.

The Steelers seem to be getting old fast and falling off a cliff this year.

Shanahan has been criticized for years for his player acquisitions, and the Redskins seem to lack depth this year as well.

Zorn had Cerrato. 'Nuff said.

Gibbs was a fantastic coach, but again, as a GM... questionable. And he was assisted by Cerrato.

Special Teams players are drawn from depth, and it would appear that Danny Smith has been working with subpar depth for years.

I find it far more plausible that this is the reason that his special teams have not been what we all hoped, rather than the idea that multiple highly qualified coaches with much better information just don't know as much as people watching on FOX.

[Bang]

So his excuse in Philly was...?

And now in Pittsburgh is..?

He was here with playoff teams, same results.

He now has a vet team.. same results.

The excuses don't cut it when the result is the same no matter what.

All this respect, all this time to create a better result, and it never gets better.

not even average.. Danny's special teams are eternal bottom dwellers, regardless of where he's been, who he's had, or how long he's had to work on it.

That fact just simply won't go away.

All the respect in the world doesn't change it.

~Bang

[Skins Wingman]

i watched a little of the steelers game this weekend and saw a kickoff go out of bounds.. looks like some things never change.

[Bang]

i watched a little of the steelers game this weekend and saw a kickoff go out of bounds.. looks like some things never change.

5 teams have managed this awesome feat so far.

That means 27 other teams are WAY behind in the strategic advantage of giving the opponent the ball on the 40.

Last year the steelers kicked zero kicks out of bounds, so they're already showing improvement there

Also, kudos to the Steelers for being one of two teams who have single-digit touchbacks.. coming in with 6 whole touchbacks out of 23 kicks.

Hot dang. rolling in with a hot 26% touchback average. Last year they were at 38% touchbacks, so again, marked change happening.

the whole league changes to allow for the majority of kicks to be touchbacks, and somehow Danny's teams get worse and worse at it.

Give it up on this clown.

~Bang

[techboy]

Well, giving up on the topic is a good idea, because he won't be coming back, whether one wants him to or not. Both "sides" need to get over it, and focus on our problems now.

On the other hand, repeating all those "facts" just isn't convincing me because what is not included are things we don't (and can't, without access to practice, coaches' film, in-depth analysis of talent, etc.) know, which coaches would.

There is no plausible explanation I am aware of that can reconcile the respect of top-notch experts with the idea that he is not a good coach, and so I trust the experts, more so because it's not just a matter of those experts offering an opinion.

They put their own jobs and success on the line by hiring him (or trying to). They wouldn't do that if they didn't know something we don't.

Unless and until you can provide a plausible explanation of how a bad coach has fooled that many excellent coaches to the point that they jeopordize their own success, you're just not going to convince me that you're correct.

To this point, you have not done so, and I suspect that's because you can't.

[Bang]

I don't need to.

All i have to do is point to the numbers and the results. the constant, continuing, steadily dismal results stretching back through nearly ten years, staff after staff after staff.

I have no idea why they keep him.

based on his results why do you think they keep him?

Based on his entire track record of results, what is it that you think makes him so respectable?

It sure isn't what he produces on the field. There is no debate for that.

~Bang

[No_Pressure]

I stand corrected, Smith was allowed to leave .. despite years of stopping teams talking to him ... he was essentially told to look elsewhere.

 

Richard Crawford our KR/PR? Really - I mean he was a solid pair of hands but loosing him was not a loosing Brian Mitchell kind of impact - next man up .. especially on special teams and it is not about the returner ... Crawford would have mininmal impact on this unit oustide what he could do on coverage .... I think our returners are fine  what is consistent is our guys do not seem to be even aware of when to  field a kick or let it go ... they do not seem to know when not to run the ball 9 yards deep in the endzone ... and that is bad  coaching or discipline  .. and that is killing us on offense ...

 

Just a quick comment on the link - Burns was not responsible for the special teams excellence in Denver, he was not the special teams coachs,  of the Broncos but he was an assistant on that that staff ... just saying ..

 

we have already had blocked punts under Burns and botched kicks in 5 games ...and I am not calling for Burns head but I am pointing out that some fans were dancing on his grave when Smith went  ... but Smith was no where near this bad ever and in fact if people would have looked around the league and seen what other teams special teams units were like we might not have been so keen to give him a shove out the door.

 

To me a special teams unit has to win the field position war and that is it - and we are not doing that - it hurts us   ... but all people are concerned about is "Waaah we never get punt returns .... Waaah we never get kick returns" ..

 

And Collinsworth is talking out of his ass when he talks about the cap penalty killing us on special teams .. if anything our special teams should be the proving ground for young and hungry players - not exactly somewhere where the lack of $$$ is a huge issue ...

 

Crawford didn't take stupid risks like Josh Morgan does. As a coach, you can tell a player 15 times in a row "hey, don't field a punt under these circumstances" or "don't bring the kick out if you're 9 yards deep" and the player can still catch the ball and do something stupid about it, especially when they're not even supposed to be out there to begin with. Hell, maybe Morgan will be benched next week and we'll see Niles Paul back there again.

 

As for Burns, he was a very good coach for a very good ST unit. He was a very good special teams player in his playing days, and he did coach on those good ST units in Denver, which whether he was the coordinator or not we shouldn't just ignore and dismiss. I'm also not convinced that he's going to turn into a great ST coach for us, but he should still be given some leeway for a bit, seeing as these are the first 5 games he's ever directly coordinated. Danny Smith had problems every year which we're conveniently ignoring, as if he were some sort of a god of special teams when he wasn't.

 

Also, Collinsworth isn't talking out of his ass. We wanted to re-sign ST Pro Bowler Lorenzo Alexander, but we didn't have the money to do that and...you know...field a secondary. We had to make some difficult decisions. Crawford was an important ST player for us, Kai Forbath has been battling injury and doesn't seem right just yet, Sav Rocca isn't hitting his punts very well (watch the lack of hangtime in his punt that got returned for a TD. He hit a line drive and gave the Cowboys about 15-20 yards to start running before having to dodge a tackle) and it might have to do with him being 39, I'm not sure.

 

It isn't exactly like we've been able to maintain the greatest ST unit ever. Now our long snapper is out for the season, our #1 returner is out for the season, we lost a pro bowler/team captain in the off-season, our kicker has been injured, and I'm sure that Burns runs a different system which they're adjusting to.

 

Danny Smith got away with murder and even has some defenders, but nobody waits 5 games to give a new ST Coordinator in a difficult situation time to prove himself before coming out of the woodwork to say I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! DANNY SMITH WAS A GODSEND AND WE'RE STUPID FOR BEING GLAD HE LEFT!!!

[skins island connection]

 After seeing Morgan just half ass run directly into the enormous pile of players in the center of the field,  that told me either he just doesn't care about putting in the effort, or he's ****ing stupid.

I rank him on my "GTFO" just under Haslett's position, which I doubt will ever be trumped.

 

ST designs are not complicated like offenses are, there are a limited amount of designs in ST, it mostly falls upon the individual player, a.k.a. LoAl to be a playmaker.

 

Look around the league, and one example is Hester; he's a speedy guy, and in alot of cases, ST defense against him over-think their angle, or just flat out under-estimate the guy.  

Morgan has no business being on the team period, and they should try to trade him or cut him.

[techboy]

Based on his results why do you think they keep him?

I don't know, but then I haven't had the chance to sit down with one of those excellent coaches and ask. I'm pretty sure they could articulate a reason, and it wouldn't be "he sucks but..."

What I do know is that there are a lot of areas, especially in more obscure and esoteric fields, where an answer (to a layman) is easy, obvious, and ultimately wrong due to factors that can't immediately be seen.

Football is not quantum mechanics, but I simply can't ignore the fact that multiple experts with more information than me continue to not just say that he is a good coach (which would be easy), but put their own livelihoods on the line by hiring/retaining him. A couple of times, he was the only holdover. Joe Gibbs is a sweet man, but I doubt he intentionally hired people he didn't think could do the job just to be a nice guy.

Maybe you can decide that you are better able to make an evaluation, with less information, than multiple Super Bowl winning coaches, and if so, that's fine.

I just can't do it.

Also, for the record, I think the new guy deserves more than 5 games before we attempt to judge his performance (since some seem to want to go there as well).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I don't need to.

All i have to do is point to the numbers and the results. the constant, continuing, steadily dismal results stretching back through nearly ten years, staff after staff after staff.

I have no idea why they keep him.

based on his results why do you think they keep him?

Based on his entire track record of results, what is it that you think makes him so respectable?

It sure isn't what he produces on the field. There is no debate for that.

~Bang

 

Because I like to try to understand things, I wonder if he wasn't kept around in part because he seemed great with the game/clock management aspect of the game. More than a couple times, he seemed to be telling Gibbs/Zorn/Shanahan when to take timeouts, etc.

 

It's possible that those strengths appeared to play into the decision-making somewhat.

[Bang]

Frankly, if he was kept just to help manage the clock ,that is a terrible indictment of everyone else.

 

And again,, i don't care what his reputation IS.

All i know is what his results ARE.

Look him up.

1995-98 with the eagles. .  2001-2003 with the Bills, and then with us for 7, and now in Pittsburgh for five games.

NFL.com will allow you to look at all the stats you'd need to see about his special teams and the times that those teams are out of the bottom 20 in every special teams category are so few and far between they barely register.

 

Look at his numbers everywhere he's been.

And then you'll be as mystified as me as to why he's so respected because his body of work does NOT bear it out.

Those are facts.

I can't change them or try to look beyond them.

 

~Bang