Art Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 If anything should be obvious by now, teams do not avoid throwing at Champ Bailey. Champ is a remarkably solid cover guy, but teams aren't afraid of him. Because he is covering what is generally considered the opposition's best receiver the majority of the time he does get tested. Substantially more than Smoot does. Last week against the Eagles only three balls went to the man Smoot was guarding in man coverage. One was intercepted. One was nearly intercepted. One went for a short gain. Bailey, on the other hand, gave up a half dozen pass completions. The value Smoot gives this team is that he doesn't allow teams the easy choice of going at him because Bailey is on the other side. Teams are afraid of Smoot. New England went into the game against us wanting to test Smoot. And he just murdered them by allowing only a couple of passes to even be tried his way. That alters game plans. It alters games. Teams are testing Bailey at a MUCH higher rate than they are going at Smoot because teams are discovering that Smoot is better than the guy he's guarding and while Champ is better than most of the guy's he's guarding, at least that guy is usually the "top" receiver so you take chances. Champ had a number of balls caught on him where he was in beautiful coverage. You have to live with those types of things. But if we didn't have Smoot on the other side, we'd be in serious trouble. His struggle early last year with learning his assignments in the Lewis scheme and late last year while playing through injury should be forgotten given how strong he's been this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I'd agree w/ you, but what about the Giants game? Ike Hilliard made Smooty his b!tch in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poidog22 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 The pick that Smoot had last week was poetry on motion....I'd like to get a pic of that for my sig line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 RT, as I recall Hilliard made both our corners look bad that day. Let me just say that if either of our corners go down for a significant amount of time, we are in a significant amount of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posse81 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Smoot is having a MUCH better year this year than last. The pick in Philly was ubelieveable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEastNCFan Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Through the 1st three games this year, I thought Smoot was just as bad as last year. It seemed like there was little or no improvement from the previous season. These last two games, it looks like he has come around. He could wind up having a pretty solid season this year. Hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Let me ask, which is better, having an overpowering D Line or having 2 great corners? Just curious... Seems like Philly's D line made up for their missing secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Smoot's pick last weekend was great. However, Smoot was beaten on the play. James Thrash had him by at least 2-3 steps, but the ball was underthrown. James Thrash had to reach back for it, while Smoot simply had to leap because it was underthrown. Had the ball been placed a little better, the play would have been for a huge gain or a TD. I like Smoot a great deal, but nobody's afraid of him. I know for sure that Antonio Bryant and Quincy Carter lick their chops when they see Smoot out there. As far as Champ goes. He's a great CB, but he doesn't strike that much fear into other teams. The phrase "shut down corner" was coined after Deion Sanders. There will probably never be another like him. That term nowadays is used too loosely. There really isn't a CB out there today that's a threat to pick your pass off and go the distance on any given play. Teams don't fear these so-called "Shutdown CB's" today, like they feared Deion. We need to stop using that term to describe any great CB. A pass rush may help Champ and Smoot immensly, but Deion never needed a pass rush, whether it be in Atlanta, or SF or Dallas. Champ has other strenghts that Deion didn't have, such as his instinctiveness and desire in playing the run. Smoot, as small as he is (168 lbs.) also seems as if he has a great desire to make tackles in the run game. If we ever get a consistant pass rush in DC, we'll be extremely dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Actually, I think shutdown corner was coined after King Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by riggo-toni Actually, I think shutdown corner was coined after King Darrell Actually not. Only after Deion arrived was "shudown corner" used. After Sanders came into the league and performed impressively shutting down the best WR's in the league, GM's started looking for "shutdown corners" in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Yeah, Smoot was beaten on that play (not by that much), but he made the play. He made the other team pay for its mistake - a less than perfect throw. That's what a good CB does. There's a small window in any coverage through which the offense can "beat" the CB. It's hard to make the perfect throw or run the perfect route, or make the perfect adjustment consistently, though. If the CB makes the other team be perfect to beat him, he's doing a good job. I know for sure that Antonio Bryant and Quincy Carter lick their chops when they see Smoot out there. Do you know them or someone in the Cowboys organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Actually, Smoot wasn't beaten at all on the play. He simply moved himself into position to make a play on the ball. He was side by side with Thrash and then moved himself down so he had the inside angle. It was a classic corner play. Last year he'd often play side by side with the receiver and the receiver could make a play on the ball before he could. Smoot's clearly adjusted his play now. He gets in the hip pocket and that gives him FIRST chance at balls going his way. RT, Smoot had just had a concussion a couple of days earlier. There was some suggestion he wouldn't even play. As it was, Hilliard had 7 catches for 58 yards with two TDs. Neither of the touchdowns was on Smoot. One was on Bailey. One was against a zone and probably on Trotter. Of the other five catches, Smoot gave up four of them I believe. Bailey gave up three catches to Toomer, including the long touchdown and one to Hilliard directly. Looking back, you can't say Smoot was the corner that was beaten a lot in the Giants game. Champ was. And, again, that's the point. Smoot is scaring teams away from him. Rellim points to Carter and Bryant as proof that no one is afraid of him and as we all know, Smoot was injured in that game, AND, he was in very solid cover position on most of the plays but he couldn't make a play on the ball due to the injury taking away a bit of his burst. Teams are scared to death of Smoot because he IS dangerous. He DOES make the interception that hits him in the hands most of the time. He is a great deal better than most team's second receiver so he's usually stifling that player. I agree with Rellim here that neither guy is a "shut down" corner in the mold of Sanders. Sanders though had a different style. Sanders played face up with a receiver a lot so he could jump passes. This left him suseptible to crossing routes which he gave up all the time. But, because of his style, teams were scared to death to try the out on him and the slant was iffy. Bailey and Smoot play more in your hip coverage where they don't have the same opportunity to intercept, but they not weak against any particular route. Code, It wasn't the Eagles front four that made up for the secondary. Only Walker had any pressure at all among the front four and that pressure was really just on two plays. The Eagles blitz made up for their secondary. For YEARS I've begged the Redskins to play like the Eagles or even the Dolphins. Go man up on the outside and bring pressure everywhere else. The Eagles don't really even do that as they always keep a safety rolled over one side or the other, but, it's close enough . We have traditionally played a very coverage oriented scheme. We generally play back and use coverage to our advantage where we can. We've been, over the last three years, a Top 5 team in terms of opposition pass completion percentage because of it, but, we don't generally get a ton of pressure. This year we're in the Top 10 in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Art, Thanks for explaining.... Why not run a 46 style defense in our situation? We have 2 corners that can cover man to man and D line is the weakest point, I don't claim to know a ton about defense, but wasn't the 46 all about the blitzing everyone else and the corners taking care of their men by themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I'm expecting big things out of Champ and Fred this Sunday. Even if Meeshawn plays, he's not anyone who should give either of those guys problems. Keenan McCardell scares me a bit, but he seems to have lost a step and if need be, Iffy can roll coverage over. With J. Jerivicious out, who's the #3 guy? Let's hope Champ and Fred can bait Bad Brad Johnson into throwing at them on Sunday. I'm not expecting that to happen much, Johnson's too smart, but what other weapons are there? the TE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by rellim The phrase "shut down corner" was coined after Deion Sanders. There will probably never be another like him. That term nowadays is used too loosely. I think you're partially correct, there. The phrase really wasn't used (at least, I didn't notice it) untill Deion. But the role was quite a bit older than that, and was applied (maybe first, but I don't know) to Darrell. I first heard it from Madden, commenting on one of Gibbs' games vs. SF. Madden said that the Skins were using Darrell in this new kind of way, where he didn't really play a position so much as a player. He siad Darrell's entire mission today would be to follow Rice around, wherever he lined up. If Rice went into motion, so would Darrell. If Rice came out of the game for a breather, so would Darrell. (I suspect that's also the reason why, if you ask Jerry Rice "Who's the best CB you've played against?", he says Darrell). Madden said we'd use the same system against other teams. (I think he mentioned Irvin). That description from Madden was why I became a Darrell fan. (My previous "favorite Skin" was Dave Butz). It seemed positively heroic to study a team, and pick out the best guy on the other team, and then say "I'm better than he is". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 good to see smoot getting some love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Code, To be honest with you, I think we don't run the 46 because we don't have a strong enough defensive line to do it. Our line is ok at occupying blockers but they get moved around a lot. In the 46 you have 8 guys up on the line that if you bow a lot you can get shredded. I don't think we have the personnel to do the Bear front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by poidog22 The pick that Smoot had last week was poetry on motion....I'd like to get a pic of that for my sig line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 I see an icon for our Eagle fan visitors . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Art Code, To be honest with you, I think we don't run the 46 because we don't have a strong enough defensive line to do it. Our line is ok at occupying blockers but they get moved around a lot. In the 46 you have 8 guys up on the line that if you bow a lot you can get shredded. I don't think we have the personnel to do the Bear front. Ok.. that makes sense. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poidog22 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Skins24 Sweet! Thanks Skins24! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Defense Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 and let there be no more praise of deion on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by National Defense and let there be no more praise of deion on the board. Request to mods: I've discovered (won't mention how) that this SW has the ability to prohibit certain words from appearing in posts. I'm assuming that this list of forbidden words can be edited. Could we add the name of "the person who previously wore Smoot's number" to this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Champ has a known injury to his wrist and shoulder and I'd test him too. Tampon has banged up players in the secondart and it would be irresponsible if we didnt tesst them. Plus thee giants had all day to throw so champ and smoot can only do so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Originally posted by Larry I think you're partially correct, there. The phrase really wasn't used (at least, I didn't notice it) untill Deion. But the role was quite a bit older than that, and was applied (maybe first, but I don't know) to Darrell. I first heard it from Madden, commenting on one of Gibbs' games vs. SF. Madden said that the Skins were using Darrell in this new kind of way, where he didn't really play a position so much as a player. He siad Darrell's entire mission today would be to follow Rice around, wherever he lined up. If Rice went into motion, so would Darrell. If Rice came out of the game for a breather, so would Darrell. (I suspect that's also the reason why, if you ask Jerry Rice "Who's the best CB you've played against?", he says Darrell). Madden said we'd use the same system against other teams. (I think he mentioned Irvin). That description from Madden was why I became a Darrell fan. (My previous "favorite Skin" was Dave Butz). It seemed positively heroic to study a team, and pick out the best guy on the other team, and then say "I'm better than he is". You are quite correct, my man. I remember Madden saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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