JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 This entire post is hogwash...not that I'm particularly surprised. :doh: A DUI for an NFL player results in a fine of 1 game check up to a maximum of $ 50,000 The current policy states a first DUI results in a fine of a game check, up to a maximum of $50,000, with subsequent violation leading to further discipline, which can include suspensions. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829c2293/article/nfl-pushing-for-increased-dui-player-discipline existing civil penalties first time DUI include mandatory substance abuse classes, mandatory victims awareness lectures, mandatory Alcohol Anonymous classes, loss of driving privileges for 1 year, and up to 30 day jail sentence... Jail – 5 Days Minimum (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle) Jail – 5 Days (If Blood Alcohol Level .15-.20) Jail – 10 Days (If Blood Alcohol Level above .20) Fine - $250 Minimum Fine - Add $500-$1,000 (If Passenger under 18 in Vehicle) License Suspension – 1 Year Ignition Interlock Device Required (If Blood Alcohol Level .15 or Above) Complete Alcohol Safety Action Program http://dui.drivinglaws.org/virginia.php The Alcohol Safety Action Program or ASAP which every offender must complete also requires Weekly attendance at lectures over a period of several months. weekly AA meetings complete abstinence from alcohol for 1 year. Doesn't surprise me you don't know what the you're talking about either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Pa?Nj cops sure don't have a problem giving out DUIs. They live on them. NFL players are doing much worse than drinking and driving. I'm shocked at how few DUI deaths we have here. Must be all the curvy roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Doesn't surprise me you don't know what the you're talking about either. You never disappoint I'm in a charitable mood today, so allow me to clarify for you: the stats you copied and pasted are true. Your opinion and every mode of rationalization you used to arrive to your opinion are asinine. Like laughable asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Now you are really just making ridiculous comparisons. The NFL punishing, not banning, punishing, a current employee for life-risking and unnecessary behavior that damages the league's brand and reputation in an effort to send a non-permanent message is not whatsoever, related to electing a President who had a DUI charge decades ago that was dealt with at the time. You cannot serious with this, right? Yes it's it is ridiculous to respond to AsiaticSkinsFan post #15 which suggested cutting NFL players who have been convicted of DUI's by pointing out much more important jobs where folks don't loose their careers for the same offense.... ridiculous indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm surprised how much teams tolerate it.Saturday night team meeting before a game and players routinely roll in late and smelling of alcohol. I'm to the point where I think all NFL teams (or the league itself) should just insist that car services be built into contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoshuaj Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I wonder what the rate of DUIs in the NFL is in comparison to society. It may not be that out of line. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--cowboys-arrest--death-serve-as-another-sad-reminder-that-dui-is-a-major-problem-for-nfl-223240240.html "DUI is the league's biggest legal issue. A study by the San Diego Union-Tribune found that 112 of the 385 NFL player arrests (29 percent) between 2000 and 2008 involved drunk driving." "That same Union-Tribune study found players arrested at a rate of one per 47. The U.S. population was one per 21, more than twice as often." It's a societal problem....that's more prevalent, yet not as widely reported, in society. Get as outraged when Joe 6-pack gets popped for his 3rd d-willy as you do when Lindsay Lohan does b/c until then it's all a bunch of vacant hot air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm to the point where I think all NFL teams (or the league itself) should just insist that car services be built into contracts. The NFLPA already has a car service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 The NFLPA already has a car service. Do they offer a car service or require it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yes it's it is ridiculous to respond to AsiaticSkinsFan post #15 which suggested cutting NFL players who have been convicted of DUI's by pointing out much more important jobs where folks don't loose their careers for the same offense....ridiculous indeed. You realize his post wasn't encouraging or supporting that punishment right? He was clarifying something he thought I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm in a charitable mood today, so allow me to clarify for you: the stats you copied and pasted are true. Your opinion and every mode of rationalization you used to arrive to your opinion are asinine. Like laughable asinine. No what is asinine... ( extremely or utterly foolish ) is someone posting a broad inflammatory statement about an "entire post is hogwash"... and then after he's been given sources, facts he can't refute... retreating from that now proven idiotic position only to then attack the original poster personally. That's asinine... If you have a specific point you want to discuss point that out specifically. Personal attacks just demonstrate you don't have a clue about the world you live in. I would have thought you would have taken issue with my statement about DUI drivers involved in deaths getting harsher sentences than 1st degree murder's, which is a growing trend. To me that is the most outrageous statement I made in this thread.. Which of coarse I can also support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Do they offer a car service or require it? Ah, you mean requiring. Well, I'd guess that some (just about every) player would oppose to being forced to use a car service and how would you enforce it anyway? As of right now, all NFL players can call a # that will have someone pick them up and take them home from wherever AND someone else will come and drive their car home for them. This at $85/hour (chump change for millionaires). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Ah, you mean requiring. Well, I'd guess that some (just about every) player would oppose to being forced to use a car service and how would you enforce it anyway?As of right now, all NFL players can call a # that will have someone pick them up and take them home from wherever AND someone else will come and drive their car home for them. This at $85/hour (chump change for millionaires). I don't know how you require it...but there have to be creative people who could build some language into it. I know DUIs can happen at any time, but weekend evenings are the key times. So, if it's a Tuesday at 4pm and you have to take your daughter to ice skating practice, you can take your car. If it's 3am on Saturday morning, you better be calling a service. In the end, I'm sure you're right and it's a logistical nightmare, but I would hope someone would maybe TRY to enforce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 You realize his post wasn't encouraging or supporting that punishment right? He was clarifying something he thought I said. I realize I quoted it directly, when I responded to it directly, and was therefore rather perturbed when you said I "was making a ridiculous comparison" between banning and punishing.. Banning NFL players is idiotic... Punishing is not idiotic or even out of line... but our punishments are already quite draconian both in the NFL but even more importantly for every citizen; and they really aren't making much of a difference. Since the mid 1970's before the craze to destroy the lives of first time offenders began (1980) the economy is a better indicator of DUI arrests in any given year over what one would expect if the DUI punitive measures were effective... If our draconian laws were having an effect one would expect a slope trending towards reducing events over the period of the mid 1970's to present. That is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 The NFL already has a Code of Conduct Policy that DUIs fall under. Are you recommending a separate policy just for DUIs above and beyond what is already in place? Or are you saying you think the NFL does not enforce its existing policy consistently or sternly enough? Josh Brent is facing up to 12 years in jail for manslaughter. I don't think anything the NFL could do would top that seeing as that eliminates any chance he had for an NFL career. As you mentioned the NFLPA has a car service in place. Players aren't using it (at least not enough apparently). Do you think that the threat of heftier fines and suspensions would significantly cut down on DUIs in the NFL? As someone else posted above, the rate in the NFL is already lower that that for the public at large. Some people are just going to do stupid stuff no matter what potential penalties are in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--cowboys-arrest--death-serve-as-another-sad-reminder-that-dui-is-a-major-problem-for-nfl-223240240.html"DUI is the league's biggest legal issue. A study by the San Diego Union-Tribune found that 112 of the 385 NFL player arrests (29 percent) between 2000 and 2008 involved drunk driving." "That same Union-Tribune study found players arrested at a rate of one per 47. The U.S. population was one per 21, more than twice as often." It's a societal problem....that's more prevalent, yet not as widely reported, in society. Get as outraged when Joe 6-pack gets popped for his 3rd d-willy as you do when Lindsay Lohan does b/c until then it's all a bunch of vacant hot air. I pretty much agree with this, as I said earlier. Its not just the NFL. Its our entire society. For some reason, DUI is not taken as seriously as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 The NFL already has a Code of Conduct Policy that DUIs fall under. Yes it falls under the substance abuse policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 The NFL already has a Code of Conduct Policy that DUIs fall under. Are you recommending a separate policy just for DUIs above and beyond what is already in place? Or are you saying you think the NFL does not enforce its existing policy consistently or sternly enough? Josh Brent is facing up to 12 years in jail for manslaughter. I don't think anything the NFL could do would top that seeing as that eliminates any chance he had for an NFL career.As you mentioned the NFLPA has a car service in place. Players aren't using it (at least not enough apparently). Do you think that the threat of heftier fines and suspensions would significantly cut down on DUIs in the NFL? As someone else posted above, the rate in the NFL is already lower that that for the public at large. Some people are just going to do stupid stuff no matter what potential penalties are in place. This is 100% true but you still have to attempt damage control. According to the San Diego Tribune, DUI's are the NFL's biggest legal issue so I see no reason why they couldn't have a specific set of punishments (which they do now but aren't enough of a deterrent obviously). It's not that they don't enforce it. But a $50,000 fine on a millionaire isn't going to say much is it? Say that 12 years gets knocked down by a great lawyer to one year + probation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--cowboys-arrest--death-serve-as-another-sad-reminder-that-dui-is-a-major-problem-for-nfl-223240240.html"DUI is the league's biggest legal issue. A study by the San Diego Union-Tribune found that 112 of the 385 NFL player arrests (29 percent) between 2000 and 2008 involved drunk driving." "That same Union-Tribune study found players arrested at a rate of one per 47. The U.S. population was one per 21, more than twice as often." It's a societal problem....that's more prevalent, yet not as widely reported, in society. Get as outraged when Joe 6-pack gets popped for his 3rd d-willy as you do when Lindsay Lohan does b/c until then it's all a bunch of vacant hot air. No the leagues biggest issue is head injuries. It's the fact that 50 year old men who come out of the league have long lasting medical problems due to head injuries.... Have you seen a tape of Earl Campbell? If you can fine tobacco companies billions for selling cigarettes they know will kill, how can the NFL stave off a lawsuit which would close down the league given the statistics we already know today? That is the biggest thing in football... Not DUI's by young people given multi million dollar contracts at the age of 23. That is going to fundamentally change the game of Football either the NFL will do it themselves or it will be forced upon them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 This is 100% true but you still have to attempt damage control. According to the San Diego Tribune, DUI's are the NFL's biggest legal issue so I see no reason why they couldn't have a specific set of punishments (which they do now but aren't enough of a deterrent obviously). It's not that they don't enforce it. But a $50,000 fine on a millionaire isn't going to say much is it?Say that 12 years gets knocked down by a great lawyer to one year + probation. Not all players make millions. In fact only the top players make the big money you hear so much about. $50,000 is almost 10% of Josh Brent's $540,000 annual salary, and if you consider agent fees, taxes, etc, it is probably closer to 20% of his annual take home pay. So some can afford it more than others. I could see making the fine a sliding scale based on the player's salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 I realize I quoted it directly, when I responded to it directly, and was therefore rather perturbed when you said I "was making a ridiculous comparison" between banning and punishing..Banning NFL players is idiotic... Punishing is not idiotic or even out of line... but our punishments are already quite draconian both in the NFL but even more importantly for every citizen; and they really aren't making much of a difference. Since the mid 1970's before the craze to destroy the lives of first time offenders began (1980) the economy is a better indicator of DUI arrests in any given year over what one would expect if the DUI punitive measures were effective... If our draconian laws were having an effect one would expect a slope trending towards reducing events over the period of the mid 1970's to present. That is not the case. The # of DUI-related fatalities nationwide has been cut in half since 1982..that is not solely because of economic times. It certainly has an effect no question but not a total effect. Regardless the "harsh" punishments you listed earlier for NFL players aren't deterring enough. A $50,000 fine for someone on a $25 million contract is nothing. However if his actions forced him to cost the team via suspension, that's something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 This is 100% true but you still have to attempt damage control. According to the San Diego Tribune, DUI's are the NFL's biggest legal issue so I see no reason why they couldn't have a specific set of punishments (which they do now but aren't enough of a deterrent obviously). It's not that they don't enforce it. But a $50,000 fine on a millionaire isn't going to say much is it? So you think 500k? :doh: The problem isn't that 50k isn't enough of a deterrent, the problem is that fines aren't all that big of a deterrent. ---------- Post added December-10th-2012 at 04:30 PM ---------- The # of DUI-related fatalities nationwide has been cut in half since 1982..that is not solely because of economic times. Yeah it pretty much is. because the traffic accidence which cause fatalities not involving alcohol has also been dramatically reduced. why? seat belt laws, safer cars, and safer roads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I most certainly am not holding them to a higher moral standard (I don't think DUI's as an athlete make you any "worse" or "foolish" of a person than non-athletes) and again, every person faces potential additional punishment by their employer for drunk driving and football is work for these guys so what higher standard are they being held to? I know people who've been fired for getting excessively drunk and out of line at company holiday parties. The NFL is not something comparable to the average joe. It's a not-for-long league which is more than a funny line, the average player career is short and peak earning potential is even shorter. They don't have the option of working for 40 years and then retiring with a nice 401k. If I lost my job today and it took me 3 months to find a new one I'd probably lose less potential income than an NFL player would lose if he got suspended for two weeks. Furthermore you are seeking to codify additional penalties thus literally creating a higher standard for NFL players. Domestic violence is not near as clear cut a guilty crime and not as readily avoidable. There is no need to throw in a pointless comparison. But if the NFL wanted to somehow tackle that behemoth they would have every right to as an employer.Just because the NFL wants to crack down on one thing doesn't mean we have to say "well why not crack down on everything?" You see a disappointing and damaging trend, attack it, and worry about another one later if you choose to. And yes, I believe that jaywalking is as big, obvious and damaging a trend as DUI's in the NFL and there should absolutely be additional fines/suspensions if they dare be caught doing it. Domestic violence is not as readily avoidable? No comment. I can appreciate your philosophy on handling issues as you encounter them but over time your logic results in an ever increasing list of punishments as everyone follows the same principle. At some people people are going to realize that shaking a bigger stick doesn't solve everything. If does make people feel better though to know it stung a little more... until it doesn't and then we need to raise the punishments again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoshuaj Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 [/color] Yeah it pretty much is. because the traffic accidence which cause fatalities not involving alcohol has also been dramatically reduced. why? seat belt laws, safer cars, and safer roads... Are you saying that DUI related fatalies are down (mostly?) because of the state of the economy? since 1982? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 So you think 500k? The loss of driving privilege is a bigger deterrent for the wealthy than money. Although in Finland, for example they do scale your fine. http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/lp/home.nsf/pages/F3BCD1C2A09C374FC225759900338B68?opendocument http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1759791.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Seems as if we should all have a car service when needed for all the tax dollars we spend. But that's a different topic. I am pretty sure the NFL players are not charged with DUI at nearly the rate of the general public. The NFL is not responsible to do more than the next business and yet they do, and penalize harshly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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