Interview/Negotiation Advice Needed

[hockeysc23]

Vast and knowledgeable ES people, I need some help. In the past when asking for help you all have been very helpful so I am trying again.

Have an interview on Friday with a company and a job I really want. Based on the phone interviews (3) and discussions with HR the feeling is mutual (ain't that grand). They sent me some of the in person interview material and in it was what to bring to the interview. In it they asked me to bring two of my most recent pay stubs.

As part of the selection process, we require additional information to assist in determining a final candidate.

 References: Three professional references, not to include friends or relatives. Former manager, peer, co-worker, direct report, or client is appropriate

 Income: A copy of the last two pay stubs from the current or most recent position

 Education: Proof of education and/or certifications

Can they do that? What is with companies asking for your pay before you even interview or get an offer now a days? Almost every one wouldn't even bring me in for an interview with out knowing my current and past salary history. Is there anyway I can refuse?

My market value is not equal to my current pay and I don't want them basing any offer what I currently make. Nor should they, they should base an offer off of what I am asking and they can afford if they want me.

Thoughts and advice?

Thanks

[twa]

You can certainly refuse, and they can take refusal well or not (as your potential employer I would not be pleased with a refusal for what I asked for)

Being confrontational is not usually a good strategy though, I would suggest being prepared to state your case on your worth regardless of whether you provide paystubs or not

[Corcaigh]

They can ask - many companies ask for salary verification. But it's common that an actual offer is conditional, not to request that kind of personal data in advance, any more than they need to know your SSN.

[TMK9973]

The pay stubs is a odd request (So is proof of your education).

Now - The part of "I dont want to base the offer of what I currently make". Tough cookies.

With a paystub or not -They will ask you what your current salery is. They will ask you what salery you are looking at. Depending on the job you can be vague. (I've answered it in the past by saying "My total compensation package is around XXXX". I include health benefits, matching 401k, etc.... Your being honest but it puts a number in their head higher then your current salary.

You have two options the way I see it.

1 - Do it. Simply but yeah - your offer will be very close to your current salary.

2 - Dont do it..for now. See if they even ask you for it (It could be a HR thing that the hiring manager doesn't even think of). If they do - Be direct but non confrontational "I did see that - And I can def send you copies of that electronically after the interview as a follow up / next steps".

I'd do #2

[deejaydana]

The request for proof of education strikes me as more uncommon here. It's really their job to obtain that information. I wouldn't know where to begin looking to find my degrees. It's an employers market right now so refusing to furnish the paystubs would most likely not be viewed favorably (though it also may not be a deal breaker).

[hockeysc23]

Thanks for the thoughts and responses all. Yeah, I didn't get the impression from them during the first 3 phone interviews (HR, then two different managers for finding which position I'd be a better fit for) that this would be the kind of company asking for that kind of $$.

I have no problem giving the total compensation type response ... but obviously if they ask for my pay stubs they tell a different story thus I wasn't sure the best way to handle it. I've actually read a lot of articles recently on salary negotiation and they said that a lot of people were not offered jobs because their current base was too low compared to what the position paid. The company then deduced they weren't qualified enough because they weren't paid as high.

[Elessar78]

Open the dialogue about why they are asking for pay stubs. Clearly no one is dumb here and the negotiation has already started, so be up front about your concerns. Don't be standoffish, but do let them know that you know that having your paystubs puts you at a disadvantage. Maybe it's even just a stunt to keep you from countering their offer too much or at all.

I had to provide my college transcripts before.

Remember that negotiations are give and take. If you give something expect something in return. If you give your salary info then ask for a number of what their top range is. If in time you find out they weren't being truthful-- then do you want to work for a firm like that?

Also try to find out why they want pay stubs. Being unemployed right now is a strike against you, so if you are employed then ask of they will take another form of employment verification.

Just be glad they're not doing credit checks on you. I've known candidates nixed because of low credit scores.

[hockeysc23]

Open the dialogue about why they are asking for pay stubs. Clearly no one is dumb here and the negotiation has already started, so be up front about your concerns. Don't be standoffish, but do let them know that you know that having your paystubs puts you at a disadvantage. Maybe it's even just a stunt to keep you from countering their offer too much or at all.

I had to provide my college transcripts before.

Remember that negotiations are give and take. If you give something expect something in return. If you give your salary info then ask for a number of what their top range is. If in time you find out they weren't being truthful-- then do you want to work for a firm like that?

Also try to find out why they want pay stubs. Being unemployed right now is a strike against you, so if you are employed then ask of they will take another form of employment verification.

Just be glad they're not doing credit checks on you. I've known candidates nixed because of low credit scores.

Good advice. Thanks. I am not unemployed just underpaid

[LadySkinsFan]

One time when interviewing, I was asked my present salary. Since I was vastly underpaid at the time, even within my company, I wasn't about to tell them. I just said that if they thought I was qualified, they could ask me what I wanted and they could counter or they could just offer. I said it was a fair market job and they either thought I was qualified to do the job or they didn't think that. They asked me what salary I wanted, I told them, and they came back with something a little lower and I accepted. Of course I overstated what I wanted.

As for education, it's up to the employer to do the fact checking but maybe their HR dept. is overworked or has been downsized and they don't have the people to do the checking, so they asked for credentials. On another job, during the interview, the interviewer said "I see you have a batchelor's degree." Which I replied, no sir, I have 2 associate degrees. My agency had inflated my resume without my knowing. Correcting that "mistake" up front and in a horrified manner said a lot about my integrity. And I was horrified. I don't have a BA/BS and would never say so. Besides, at my age and experience, it doesn't matter much any more about educational qualifications, they are more interested in experience.

Hope you get the offer! Good luck!

[TheLongshot]

Employers want to know how much you are making so that they know generally if they are in the ballpark. To be honest, I've always been asked by prospective employers what I was making and how much I was looking for in a new position.

But the step to actually give out pay stubs is a little extreme. I'd ask them why they want them and why your word isn't good enough. Hell, sometimes I've been reluctant to give them professional references before giving me an offer because I didn't necessarily want my current employer knowing I was looking.

[hockeysc23]

Is it worth it to contact the HR rep (who has been very helpful and friendly) about why they need pay stubs or indicate that I will not provide them? Or would it be better in the interview to discuss why I don't have them?

[renaissance]

Is it worth it to contact the HR rep (who has been very helpful and friendly) about why they need pay stubs or indicate that I will not provide them? Or would it be better in the interview to discuss why I don't have them?

I would direct the question to HR before your interview. The hiring manager might not have anything to do with HR's standard hiring practice.

Also in my experience having to provide transcripts is common. I've had to do it for my last 3 jobs. My colleague had an issue when she was getting an offer because she had her grad school transcript but was having an issue getting the undergrad one. HR required her to show them the undergrad transcript too because that was technically the education requirement for the position. It wasn't enough to understand that in order to have been accepted to and completed the grad program, she'd had to complete an accredited undergrad program.

[Elessar78]

Either way. Make it clear that you're not hiding something. If you choose to wait till the interview bring it with you but don't offer it. Tell them you've never been asked to provide them before and you're just curios about the reason.

Every interview process I've been on, the first phone interview I've always been asked how much I'm looking to make. To which I counter by politely asking for the salary range. And they've always been forthcoming. "We're looking in the range of 60k and 70k". If that's already more than you'd be happy with then you're playing with house money. If they press for a number in the range, again give and take, give a number in the middle to high-mid of that range. So after they make an offer and you counter you'll be at the higher end if the range.

Gauge the company and dept. ten grand sounds like a lot but its only 380 per bi weekly paycheck. Peanuts to Exxon Mobil but a big deal to a small biz.

Hr people recruit so they don't want to lose qualified candidates over trivial things.

[China]

Job Applicants' Cultural Fit Can Trump Qualifications

At a recent job interview at Summit Partners, a private equity firm in Boston, an applicant was asked, “If you could pick one person to play you in a movie, who would it be?” An audit staff applicant at New York accounting firm Ernst & Young was asked, “What are the top five cities you want to go to and why?” An online magazine asked an editor, “Where do you vacation in the summer?”

Job interviews are becoming more like first dates. The employment site Glassdoor has collected 285,000 questions asked by hiring managers, and the following four rank among 2012’s 50 most common, though they have little to do with work: What’s your favorite movie? What’s your favorite website? What’s the last book you read for fun? What makes you uncomfortable? Over the last couple of years, spokesman Scott Dobroski says, the site has found “a significant rise in questions asked about cultural fit.”

In the December issue of the American Sociological Review, Northwestern professor Lauren Rivera concludes that companies are making hiring decisions “in a manner more closely resembling the choice of friends or romantic partners.” Rivera found that apparently off-topic questions have become central to the hiring process. “Whether someone rock climbs, plays the cello, or enjoys film noir may seem trivial,” she wrote, “but these leisure pursuits were crucial for assessing someone as a cultural fit.” As a result, Rivera argues, “employers don’t necessarily hire the most skilled candidates.”

Click on the link for the full article