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A Moment of Truth for Ryan Kerrigan


armada58

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To win a SB you need some star players; elite guys that can change a game one way or another. I think it's ok to wonder aloud about "who" Kerrigan is. I have been a little disappointed the last few weeks in his activity level...doesn't mean I think he sucks. But it's important to identify who on your team is a star, who is a solid contributor, and who needs to go.

Going into this year I was so impressed with RK as a rookie that I thought there was a chance for him to be a star..a guy that can be the best player on a good defense. Now, I'm thinking he's unlikely to be that guy. Doesn't mean he isn't extremely valuable moving forward. JJ Watt is unreal...he physically dominates almost every OL he faces...crushes them one on one. The scheme has little to do with him pushing an OT six yards in the backfield. Watt might be league MVP on defense this year. RK is not in his class, which is hardly an insult.

Since the Atlanta game, RK has been very quiet...generating little push like he did the first five games. I see nothing wrong with expecting a bit more from him. I don't think RK has "star" upside, but I do think he could be very good. But lately he's been average and I think he's better than that.

As to why we discuss guys like RK who clearly aren't the problem, I have two replies to that:

1. Whenever a team in any sport is bad, people naturally point the finger at their worst players. But I also think its important to look at the best ones and ask "Are our best guys good enough to be our best guys?"

2. No reason to talk about Willians or Polumbus... We know who they are, we know that they need to go, so there's no point in breaking them down. Guys like RK are more unknown and have upside so discussing their potential and their weaknesses seems natural to me.

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Did people really think Kerrigan had the ability to be "elite" coming out of college?

I love the guy, but if having a "non stop motor" is your best attribute, you most likely arent gonna be an elite player.

Do you REALLY think that Kerrigan's best attribute as a player is his motor? Anyone that sees it that way is not watching him play.

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To win a SB you need some star players; elite guys that can change a game one way or another. I think it's ok to wonder aloud about "who" Kerrigan is. I have been a little disappointed the last few weeks in his activity level...doesn't mean I think he sucks. But it's important to identify who on your team is a star, who is a solid contributor, and who needs to go.

Going into this year I was so impressed with RK as a rookie that I thought there was a chance for him to be a star..a guy that can be the best player on a good defense. Now, I'm thinking he's unlikely to be that guy. Doesn't mean he isn't extremely valuable moving forward. JJ Watt is unreal...he physically dominates almost every OL he faces...crushes them one on one. The scheme has little to do with him pushing an OT six yards in the backfield. Watt might be league MVP on defense this year. RK is not in his class, which is hardly an insult.

Since the Atlanta game, RK has been very quiet...generating little push like he did the first five games. I see nothing wrong with expecting a bit more from him. I don't think RK has "star" upside, but I do think he could be very good. But lately he's been average and I think he's better than that.

As to why we discuss guys like RK who clearly aren't the problem, I have two replies to that:

1. Whenever a team in any sport is bad, people naturally point the finger at their worst players. But I also think its important to look at the best ones and ask "Are our best guys good enough to be our best guys?"

2. No reason to talk about Willians or Polumbus... We know who they are, we know that they need to go, so there's no point in breaking them down. Guys like RK are more unknown and have upside so discussing their potential and their weaknesses seems natural to me.

Thankfully, at least one person got what I was trying to say.

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Did people really think Kerrigan had the ability to be "elite" coming out of college?

I love the guy, but if having a "non stop motor" is your best attribute, you most likely arent gonna be an elite player.

I don't think Kerrigan has elite potential as an edge rusher either.

But don't downplay the importance of hsi motor, and I also don't think his motor is his only great attribute. He is a pretty good athlete and his instincts are tremendous. He's made a lot of plays.

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Wow! I'm shocked at the over reaction to my OP.

How dare I question whether Kerrigan will be an elite player! Jeez, sorry! I suppose if Kerrigan gets handled by King Friggin Dunlap that its not his fault. Its really Jenkins' fault? A first round draft pick shouldn't be expected to shine against a scrub like Dunlap?

Folks, I never suggested he sucked! I'm saying that if he is going to be an elite player, games and matchups like the one on Sunday are the kinds of situations where he SHOULD dominate. In my mind, it is a moment of truth on whether he is going to be that guy.

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To win a SB you need some star players; elite guys that can change a game one way or another. I think it's ok to wonder aloud about "who" Kerrigan is. I have been a little disappointed the last few weeks in his activity level...doesn't mean I think he sucks. But it's important to identify who on your team is a star, who is a solid contributor, and who needs to go.

Going into this year I was so impressed with RK as a rookie that I thought there was a chance for him to be a star..a guy that can be the best player on a good defense. Now, I'm thinking he's unlikely to be that guy. Doesn't mean he isn't extremely valuable moving forward. JJ Watt is unreal...he physically dominates almost every OL he faces...crushes them one on one. The scheme has little to do with him pushing an OT six yards in the backfield. Watt might be league MVP on defense this year. RK is not in his class, which is hardly an insult.

Since the Atlanta game, RK has been very quiet...generating little push like he did the first five games. I see nothing wrong with expecting a bit more from him. I don't think RK has "star" upside, but I do think he could be very good. But lately he's been average and I think he's better than that.

As to why we discuss guys like RK who clearly aren't the problem, I have two replies to that:

1. Whenever a team in any sport is bad, people naturally point the finger at their worst players. But I also think its important to look at the best ones and ask "Are our best guys good enough to be our best guys?"

2. No reason to talk about Willians or Polumbus... We know who they are, we know that they need to go, so there's no point in breaking them down. Guys like RK are more unknown and have upside so discussing their potential and their weaknesses seems natural to me.

This is much more reasonable. I just grow tired of the amount of criticism our best players receive and that it often grows into threads worth of people stating that some of our best and most productive players need to go. I find that most arguments are based on statistics such as Orakpo isn't in the top 5 in the league in sacks every year so he's expendable. Ryan Kerrigan doesn't have more sacks/fumbles forced than last year so he must have regressed and this is a make or break game for him.

I could not disagree more with that statement. I definitely agree with you about your two bullets at the end. Of course it's reasonable to look at all of our players and discuss whether or not they should be playing at a higher level.

But the fact that anyone is looking Kerrigan's way is simply wrong. It's the wrong place to look. The players we should be talking about are Bowen and Jenkins and why they are generating so little pass rush. Kerrigan is clearly getting everything the offense has to offer in terms of keeping him from getting to the QB. That is done for a reason, it's because opposing offenses gameplan for him because he is an excellent pass rusher and they know that not only will he get to the QB but he'll get the ball out as well.

So we need to be discussing why no one else on our defense has been capable of beating they one-on-one opportunities created BECAUSE of how good Kerrigan is. As soon as other people produce some sacks/pressure, offenses will have to respect that more and it will free up Kerrigan some. Our defense was predicated on having two excellent pass rushers (Orakpo and Kerrigan) so that defenses had to pick their poison. Even if they somehow managed to keep both of them at bay, at least one guy out of Bowen, Cofield and Carriker was expected to win their one-on-one. It worked very well last year and got off to a good start this year.

It was also expected that despite our very weak situation at corner, Hall and Jackson would be good enough ballhawks that they could take advantage of poor decisions by quarterbacks under pressure and Merriweather would roam the mid level of the field and help in run support.

That was not an all-together bad plan given the cap scandal and we chose to put more of our eggs in the offense basket on our limited free agency. Well, Jackson got suspended, Merriweather got hurt and worst of all, both Orakpo and Carriker got hurt.

We've lost all expected/planned ability to hide our poor corner play both on the front and back end. Haslett is not a very good DC to begin with imo, and ill-equipped to handle such a mess of injuries/suspensions.

Again though, it is not Kerrigan that needs to play better, rather it's the guys around him that should be benefitting from the attention he has received but have done little with that opportunity. I'm looking mainly at Rob Jackson, Stephen Bowen and Jenkins for not generating any kind of pressure.

Watt is an absolute monster, no argument there. But he is surrounded by very talented guys that complete that "pick your poison" circle for opposing offenses.

I understand that other teams have to deal with injuries too. We haven't dealt all that poorly with ours. There are games we simply should have won this year that we failed to because of terrible mental miscues by Josh Morgan and Madieu Williams. But I hope now people understand what I meant a long time ago when I used to talk about Brian Orakpo setting up our whole defense. He was good enough to still get 10 sacks per year despite all the attention but perhaps more importantly he set everyone else up for better opportunities pass rushing which in turn gave our secondary more opportunities for interceptions which of course is exactly what Shanahan has always envisioned.

He said when he first got here you need a QB, two pass rushers and a LT. He got all four of those. He wanted Haslett here because he knew Haslett loved to send pressure and he figured if he got the pass rushers, Haslett would use them effectively. Unfortunately, we not only lost Orakpo but several others as well. Our offense has failed to execute/produce on the same level they did early in the season over the last several weeks which has compounded the problem.

Ultimately, if our offense gets back on track, which really it has no reason not to, Merriweather can play at a level similar to when he was in NE and the d-linemen can start showing some production, the second half of the season could be a lot more fun to watch and give us something to look forward to next year. But, of course, there is the real possibility that the defensive guys don't step up and the receivers continue on their current path and if so we're in trouble.

Ultimately I'm hoping Mike Shanahan and the whole offensive staff sticks around while most of the defensive staff is canned and we bring in someone like Rivera if he is let go or Crennel to run the defense and let them fill out their own staff. And of course I'm hoping we can rattle off back to back wins against divisional opponents here and our team starts to play with a little more swag and confidence again like they always do at the beginning of seasons.

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There's nothing wrong with Ryan Kerrigan's game. He's been outstanding. Everyone has forgotten about that pick 6 he had against Matt Ryan earlier this year. Those are the types of plays elite OLBs make in the NFL. He's been slowed because he's being double teamed. Teams know better than to match a T against Kerrigan without any help.

I don't think he's being double teamed nearly as much as you say. He's getting blocked and handled one on one quite a bit. But either way, the better OLBs get double teamed, that's what happens when you're good. He's got to find a way to overcome it. Or Haslett's gotta move him around and help him out.

I think the OP was dead on. He's ok, but he definitely has a lot of room to step up. He's playing like a Robin, not a Batman. He's pretty much been invisible since the Falcon game. If it weren't for him tackling the WR on that WR option against the Steelers, he'd be shut out in sacks for 5 straight games. He barely registers a tackle these days.

If he's the best player on the defense, which is seemed like he was after the first few weeks, he's not playing like it right now. Not saying he can't figure it out though.

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I don't think Kerrigan has elite potential as an edge rusher either.

But don't downplay the importance of hsi motor, and I also don't think his motor is his only great attribute. He is a pretty good athlete and his instincts are tremendous. He's made a lot of plays.

Oh im with you. Notice how I said its his "best attribute". And not "his only great attribute".

:)

I know hes much more than just a motor. You dont make some of the plays hes made off of a motor alone. Really looking for Ryan to bounce back from a bad few weeks. We sure could use some pressure.

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I think Kerrigan is a more complete player than Orakpo... but neither have done anything to prove to me that they are capable of playing at an elite level. It's disappointing but it's not the worst thing in the world because both of those guys are capable of being very productive in the right circumstances. So long as they can play off each other and we can get push from SOMEONE on the interior of the defense they'll look like very good players.

The real problem is that our defense has clearly been lacking that one player that can be trusted to wreak havoc on opposing teams ever since Sean Taylor died. I've had this discussion with other ESers recently and the consensus always seems to come down to the idea that the addition of an elite DE/NT (w/true pocket collapsing ability) or a rangy, instinctive safety would make more of a difference for this defense than perhaps any other single move.

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Wow! I'm shocked at the over reaction to my OP.

How dare I question whether Kerrigan will be an elite player! Jeez, sorry! I suppose if Kerrigan gets handled by King Friggin Dunlap that its not his fault. Its really Jenkins' fault? A first round draft pick shouldn't be expected to shine against a scrub like Dunlap?

Folks, I never suggested he sucked! I'm saying that if he is going to be an elite player, games and matchups like the one on Sunday are the kinds of situations where he SHOULD dominate. In my mind, it is a moment of truth on whether he is going to be that guy.

No one is bashing you or overreacting man. You started a thread to get responses, no? So be open to criticism and agreement alike. Should Kerrigan own Dunlap? Absolutely. Will he rack up sacks? I'm not sure Kerrigan will have a single sack in this game. Why?

1) Just like every other team, the Eagles will design all their protections to key on him. He will be doubled and chipped by tight ends and running backs all day.

2) The Eagles are playing a rookie QB - they will max protect or at least focus on protecting him a lot.

3) In conjunction with #2, they will likely gameplan for a lot of short dink and dunk offensive drives. Plays where they are getting the ball out quickly to their playmakers and out of Foles' hand before he can get pressured and do something stupid. Remember when we actually had a pass rush what the Rams did in week 2? The ball was out of Bradford's hands within about a second on most of their passes to neutralize Orakpo and Kerrigan.

There are two things that will be absolutely CRUCIAL to winning this game.

1) Shut down the run game. Reid is likely to and should rely heavily on McCoy, who many have been lulled into forgetting is one of the best backs in the league. We need to shut him down and force them to beat us through the air.

2) Kind of two steps here, but we need to get ahead and control the clock on offense. If we have the lead and don't give them a lot of time to make up the score, they'll again be forced to pass the ball more down the field, giving our pass rush more time to get to Foles and our defense an opportunity to make some plays. As bad as they have been all year, they've still been pretty good at getting their hands on the ball and even scoring. We're actually +7 in turnovers and our defense has surprisingly made some outstanding plays this year in between their horridness.

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No one is bashing you or overreacting man. You started a thread to get responses, no? So be open to criticism and agreement alike. Should Kerrigan own Dunlap? Absolutely. Will he rack up sacks? I'm not sure Kerrigan will have a single sack in this game. Why?

1) Just like every other team, the Eagles will design all their protections to key on him. He will be doubled and chipped by tight ends and running backs all day.

2) The Eagles are playing a rookie QB - they will max protect or at least focus on protecting him a lot.

3) In conjunction with #2, they will likely gameplan for a lot of short dink and dunk offensive drives. Plays where they are getting the ball out quickly to their playmakers and out of Foles' hand before he can get pressured and do something stupid. Remember when we actually had a pass rush what the Rams did in week 2? The ball was out of Bradford's hands within about a second on most of their passes to neutralize Orakpo and Kerrigan.

There are two things that will be absolutely CRUCIAL to winning this game.

1) Shut down the run game. Reid is likely to and should rely heavily on McCoy, who many have been lulled into forgetting is one of the best backs in the league. We need to shut him down and force them to beat us through the air.

What were they waiting on? lol As if Vick didn't need max protection and a running game, dude was getting killed. Hence why Foles is in there to begin with.

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1) Shut down the run game. Reid is likely to and should rely heavily on McCoy, who many have been lulled into forgetting is one of the best backs in the league. We need to shut him down and force them to beat us through the air.

Reid should lean on McCoy but nothing about his tendencies or his history says that he's likely to. Fact is, Foles passed 32 times in 3 quarters in his first game. The Eagles ran the ball only 20 times in the entire game, even though they were in it and the score was close until the 4th quarter... where their reliance on Foles led to two defensive TDs for the Cowboys.

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I think Kerrigan is a more complete player than Orakpo... but neither have done anything to prove to me that they are capable of playing at an elite level. It's disappointing but it's not the worst thing in the world because both of those guys are capable of being very productive in the right circumstances. So long as they can play off each other and we can get push from SOMEONE on the interior of the defense they'll look like very good players.

The real problem is that our defense has clearly been lacking that one player that can be trusted to wreak havoc on opposing teams ever since Sean Taylor died. I've had this discussion with other ESers recently and the consensus always seems to come down to the idea that the addition of an elite DE/NT (w/true pocket collapsing ability) or a rangy, instinctive safety would make more of a difference for this defense than perhaps any other single move.

You're right on point with everything you wrote. Somebody on this defense needs to play at a consistent elite level. Up until this year, it's been Fletch, now that's he's on decline, there's just a bunch of players playing at an average level (or worse).

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I think Kerrigan is a more complete player than Orakpo... but neither have done anything to prove to me that they are capable of playing at an elite level. It's disappointing but it's not the worst thing in the world because both of those guys are capable of being very productive in the right circumstances. So long as they can play off each other and we can get push from SOMEONE on the interior of the defense they'll look like very good players.

The real problem is that our defense has clearly been lacking that one player that can be trusted to wreak havoc on opposing teams ever since Sean Taylor died. I've had this discussion with other ESers recently and the consensus always seems to come down to the idea that the addition of an elite DE/NT (w/true pocket collapsing ability) or a rangy, instinctive safety would make more of a difference for this defense than perhaps any other single move.

I could not agree more. A guy like Haloti Ngata or Sean Taylor would inject more into this defense than many realize.

I agree with pretty much your whole post. I don't think we have any player on our defense, healthy or no, right now that has proven they are, as you say, elite. But I think there are only so many "elite" guys in the league. And even those players that so many drool over, a lot of times they have an outstanding year then do not produce at the same level the next. Is Tamba Hali no longer an elite pass rusher this year because he has only 5 sacks (0.5 more than Kerrigan). Absolutely not. Production in terms of stats is always ambiguous. Pierre-Paul has 6.5 sacks, Julius Peppers has 6. But both of them are elite players.

Guys that produce 13+ sacks on a yearly basis tend to become Hall of Famers and are incredibly rare. So it is hard for me not to consider Orakpo as on that line of being elite if he produces double digit sacks every year and then has a year of 15 or so sacks. Has he or Kerrigan shown themselves to be elite as of right now? Probably not. But they have shown, more often then not, play that is near that level. And given this was only Orakpo's 4th year and he was robbed of it and Kerrigan's 2nd year, I think it is more than fair to say I expect one of them to be at that level in the near future.

I am a little disappointed I have not seen Kerrigan reap the same havoc on offenses as last year, but I also know there is good reason. And double teams/chips take a toll on the body. I would not be surprised to see Kerrigan come back refreshed and have an excellent end to the year that may put him at that elite level. But again, he'll need some help from his teammates to alleviate some of the attention.

---------- Post added November-17th-2012 at 06:09 PM ----------

What were they waiting on? lol As if Vick didn't need max protection and a running game, dude was getting killed. Hence why Foles is in there to begin with.

Hey, I'm not defending Reid. The guy has done well in Philly, but his reluctance to run the ball, especially with such a talented runner boggles the mind. He's an idiot for leaving Vick so exposed to hits and for the fact that he refuses to feed McCoy more given how poorly Vick was playing.

What I said is more pertinent to the type of gameplan I would expect from an intelligent head coach. But you definitely make a valid point that Reid may not do that and that he could come out guns ablaze with Foles. I wouldn't put it past him. As Enter Apotheosis has stated right below you (Post #40), he actually threw the ball just as much if not more with Foles in the game.

Thanks to Enter Apotheosis for the research, it's very interesting. Can't say I don't question Reid's reasoning or intelligence. But again, if you read my second point, if Reid voluntarily passes the ball a lot without us forcing him to, it should work to our advantage. We simply need the guys around Kerrigan, and Ryan himself, to step up their games coming off a bye and really dial up the heat. As Enter Apotheosis pointed out, Dallas had some big plays off of his mistakes and again, like I said, despite our poor defensive play, one thing they have shown a penchant for this year is turnovers and TD's. Not so much as of late, but this will definitely be an opportunity for them to step up and earn back some respect.

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2. No reason to talk about Willians or Polumbus... We know who they are, we know that they need to go, so there's no point in breaking them down. Guys like RK are more unknown and have upside so discussing their potential and their weaknesses seems natural to me.

Williams ...as in Trent ? ... playing as well as any other OLT in football right now - he needs to go .. ? or Madieu Williams....playing as well as ..............................................<crickets>

Just looking for clarification ..:)

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I love me some Kerrigan, but the point of drafting him was to compliment him with Orakpo to have bookend OLBs for the 3-4. You aren't supposed to have one without the other. The dude already has more pick 6's then Orakpo has come close to, but Orakpo has proven he can get sacks and pressure even without Kerrigan.

We'd be stupid to get rid of either of them, because the point was to have them play together. That's still one of the best tandems in the NFL when both are playing healthy, imo...

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Williams ...as in Trent ? ... playing as well as any other OLT in football right now - he needs to go .. ? or Madieu Williams....playing as well as ..............................................<crickets>

Just looking for clarification ..:)

Madieu, not Trent

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I never thought Kerrigan was going to be an elite defensive player. Having said that I don't think you need a elite players as much as you need a large number of good players, great leadership, and a great defensive coordinator. If you have that your defense is a strength and if you add one or two allstars your defense starts to dominate.

The skins have too many holes for me to worry about good players being elite. The secondary is in shambles and the defensive coaching staff is out of ideas. That needs to be fixed. The redskins got a ton of pressure last season and I think with the right coaching staff and a few additions on defense the unit can be good enough sooner than later.

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it seems to me this board finds ways to single out perfectly good players on the skins.... Carlos Rogers is a perfect example....and now Kerrigan, really? LOL

The problem with Rogers was his eyes. The 49ers immediately got them checked out when he signed there and he started intercepting passes instead of fumbling them away. You would think that we might have tried that, but no.

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I think Kerrigan and Orakpo would be absolutely unstoppable IF they learned how to defeat the illegal choke holds that every lineman puts on them. Their coaching sessions every single day should begin and end with practicing techniques to defeat that hold. I also think Shanny should have a pre-game briefing with the officials about that hold, and a post-game complaint to the league office.
My sentiments exactly,Kerrigan is being held quite often in that same choke that has been used against Orakpo his entire tenure in Washington.That same hold that the NFL apparently deems legal.I see him held game after game but somehow he needs to learn to break that hold,as it is not going to be called.Kerrigan has been off his game a little the last couple of weeks, hopefully he can turn it around a bit against the Eagles.Though he is coming off a very signifigant injury,I have been more disappointed with the play of Jenkins so far this season.Hopefully,Jenkins average play has been due to not being up to speed yet after that injury.Hopefully Jarvis will come around and develop into that solid player everyone thought he was going to be.

Back to Kerriagan,I think this team was very fortunate to get him where they did last year.He can't really be compared to Watts,but who can? Overall Ryan has been an above average player that hasn't missed a play due to injury and never seems to give up on a play.Ryan has provided 3 or 4 of the biggest defensive plays the Redskins have had over the last couple of years. We could use about 5 more like him on this team.

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I never thought Kerrigan was going to be an elite defensive player. Having said that I don't think you need a elite players as much as you need a large number of good players, great leadership, and a great defensive coordinator. If you have that your defense is a strength and if you add one or two allstars your defense starts to dominate.

The skins have too many holes for me to worry about good players being elite. The secondary is in shambles and the defensive coaching staff is out of ideas. That needs to be fixed. The redskins got a ton of pressure last season and I think with the right coaching staff and a few additions on defense the unit can be good enough sooner than later.

This. We have everything we need up front. The secondary needs some attention. Even though it sucks right now, a healthy front and one exceptional player on the back end would completely change the look of our defense.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 08:48 AM ----------

My sentiments exactly,Kerrigan is being held quite often in that same choke that has been used against Orakpo his entire tenure in Washington.That same hold that the NFL apparently deems legal.I see him held game after game but somehow he needs to learn to break that hold,as it is not going to be called.Kerrigan has been off his game a little the last couple of weeks, hopefully he can turn it around a bit against the Eagles.Though he is coming off a very signifigant injury,I have been more disappointed with the play of Jenkins so far this season.Hopefully,Jenkins average play has been due to not being up to speed yet after that injury.Hopefully Jarvis will come around and develop into that solid player everyone thought he was going to be.

Back to Kerriagan,I think this team was very fortunate to get him where they did last year.He can't really be compared to Watts,but who can? Overall Ryan has been an above average player that hasn't missed a play due to injury and never seems to give up on a play.Ryan has provided 3 or 4 of the biggest defensive plays the Redskins have had over the last couple of years. We could use about 5 more like him on this team.

And this.

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UPDATED AFTER THE GAME.............

Kerrigan had a hell of a game. The Eagles clearly tried to take him away and that attention led to a lot of other plays being made by Jackson, Riley, etc. AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, he did affect the game by himself, too. Forced Foles to step up into the rush, was stout at the point of attack, and recovered a fumble.

Greta job, Ryan!!! Keep it up!!!

Dont forget his forced fumble too.

If/When this team gets a handful more 'Ryan Kerrigan's', we'll be a force.

Believe that!

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