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Reuters: U.S. to overtake Saudi as top oil producer: IEA


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What benefit do the vast oil fields of America offer Americans that a factory employing the same number of people wouldn't? I know Alaskans actually get money from it. How are other Americans benefitting from the rest of that ocean of wealth? I'm honestly curious.

 

employment as Larry mentioned, tax base and income, royalties and lease payments(both to govt and private),increased manufacturing to support/transport it(steel mills,,raw material,tech jobs and manufacturing,,govt jobs for oversight ect) and of course service industry as well as food and entertainment.

 

a factory is a good thing as well,but the need and cost effectiveness must exist....it clearly does for oil/gas,and domestic production increases the need of factories

 

you might be surprised at our economic numbers in the US if this wasn't occurring

 

the chemical industry is returning to the US as well as a direct result, which means more hundreds of billions in investment,infrastructure and JOBS

 

 

Rainmaker  :) vs giving the ****ing Saudi's more gold 

 

and we do it cleaner

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and prices keep going up.

Yay.

 

~Bang

 

they should be down,and would be IF certain things were not happening.....but ya can't fix stupid

 

ya wouldn't want to see the prices if there was not a oil glut here(yes we are experiencing a oversupply)

 

to add

U.S. energy lifting economy more than expected

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/09/04/us-energy-economy-impact/2742461/

 

Newly found sources of domestic oil and natural gas are having an even bigger impact on the economy than first projected, adding more than $1,200 last year to the discretionary income of the average U.S. family, a new study says.

The explosion in domestic energy production now supports 1.2 million jobs, directly or indirectly, says consulting firm IHS, in a study released Wednesday. That number will grow to 3.3 million by 2020, and new energy's contribution to U.S. families' disposable incomes will hit $2,000 per household per year by 2015, said IHS.

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employment as Larry mentioned, tax base and income, royalties and lease payments(both to govt and private),increased manufacturing to support/transport it(steel mills,,raw material,tech jobs and manufacturing,,govt jobs for oversight ect) and of course service industry as well as food and entertainment.

a factory is a good thing as well,but the need and cost effectiveness must exist....it clearly does for oil/gas,and domestic production increases the need of factories

you might be surprised at our economic numbers in the US if this wasn't occurring

the chemical industry is returning to the US as well as a direct result, which means more hundreds of billions in investment,infrastructure and JOBS

Rainmaker :) vs giving the ****ing Saudi's more gold

and we do it cleaner

The jobs and related business growth doesn't really differ from what a big factory employing the same number of people would do. A factory that built most of the worlds hello kitty cell phone cases would have transportation needs as well. Their employees would make money and spend it on stuff too. The land those factories occupied would be taxed as would those companies.

But this is oil, oil under the US, which is essentially liquid gold that no one is making. They are simply extracting it. Shouldn't the benefit of us allowing these companies to essentially harvest wealth be substantially greater than what a different business employing the same number of people be? Maybe I'm missing something. I hear oil rich nation and I don't think, a nation where Exxon is leasing the land and taking all the oil away offering little more than job creating as a benefit.

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look at how much the us profits vs hello kitty covers then explain how one precludes the other

 

I certainly like domestic manufacturing, which domestic energy production enables more than harms

 

why the opposition to building the equivalent of factories?....running out of oil/gas is not a issue

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look at how much the us profits vs hello kitty covers then explain how one precludes the other

 

I certainly like domestic manufacturing, which domestic energy production enables more than harms

 

why the opposition to building the equivalent of factories?....running out of oil/gas is not a issue

 

Is the US profiting enough is what I'm asking.  I'm not opposed to oil/gas production in the US.  Is every state issuing their citizens checks like Alaska?  If not, why not.  Oil is essentially harvesting riches from US soil, it is not any other business, and much that wealth, if not most that wealth, should stay with the US.  It's already clear that drilling here offers no huge benefit to the US in terms of gas prices because those are set by international markets.  So are we getting enough out of allowing companies to use US oil?  

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Pointing out, Destino, that it's not like this oil is just laying around on the ground, and the oil company just claims it and demands money for it.

If it were, we would have bought it and burned it 75 years ago, when gasoline was 20 cents a gallon.

The only reason there's still oil in the US, is because it costs a lot, to get at it.

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Pointing out, Destino, that it's not like this oil is just laying around on the ground, and the oil company just claims it and demands money for it.

If it were, we would have bought it and burned it 75 years ago, when gasoline was 20 cents a gallon.

The only reason there's still oil in the US, is because it costs a lot, to get at it.

I weep for the struggles of major oil companies.  Luckily we are where we are and the technology and know-how on extracting that oil are better than ever.  Let's negotiate based on where we are today and make sure the US is getting the most for Americans out of the near infinite wealth flowing beneath US soil.

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Is the US profiting enough is what I'm asking.  I'm not opposed to oil/gas production in the US.  Is every state issuing their citizens checks like Alaska?  If not, why not.  Oil is essentially harvesting riches from US soil, it is not any other business, and much that wealth, if not most that wealth, should stay with the US.  It's already clear that drilling here offers no huge benefit to the US in terms of gas prices because those are set by international markets.  So are we getting enough out of allowing companies to use US oil?  

 

alaskans are getting direct payments by treaty as a condition of becoming a state, just as texas controls more by virtue of the US not taking our debt upon statehood.(we did not federalize as much land)

in areas controlled by the feds it is the federal govt collecting all that money,though some payments to states are made that allow drilling(onshore and off)

 

paying royalties directly to citizens might be fun,but your congresscritters obviously prefer to control it themselves

 

the oil/gas industry generates govt revenue in large percentages vs the industry profits 

exxon claims they pay $3 in taxes for every dollar of profit

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nickschulz/2012/08/09/taxation-hero-exxonmobil-pays-3-in-taxes-for-every-1-in-profit/

 

is it better to collect that three here or give 2 of it to the Saudi's ect?

 

 

Hello Kitty covers ain't gonna cut it

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I weep for the struggles of major oil companies.  Luckily we are where we are and the technology and know-how on extracting that oil are better than ever.  Let's negotiate based on where we are today and make sure the US is getting the most for Americans out of the near infinite wealth flowing beneath US soil.

 

now we are talking, but first ya gotta allow drilling. :) ....Texas and Alaska both put the squeeze on 

 

the parasite must have a host and not cause undue harm when it finds one though

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they should be down,and would be IF certain things were not happening.....but ya can't fix stupid

 

 

 

Prices are not going down, ever. regardless of whatever excuse is ever made for why they can't lower prices, it just won't happen. (And raising it 20 cents to peel it back 4 cents a week later to give us a 'break' doesn't count.)

There is absolutely no reason to lower prices. People have to have the product, and have demonstrated time and again that no matter how far it gets pushed, they will not alter any habits in any significant way to put a dent in the profits.  we need it as a necessity of life, and beyond that we enjoy the things it can do like power our ATVs and boats more than we mind the price.

the only way prices go down is if they reach the tipping point of what peole are no longer willing / able to pay.

right now they aren't there, and if there is anything that is certain, they will push until they find it.

and that is IF they find it.

the way we're set up people would scream mightily if it went to five bucks a gallon, but we'd still buy it because it's a necessity.

 

~Bang

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Well, yeah, those fun little stats are always out there.

 

My point is that I don't think gas will ever go down. (Until a viable alternative is found and in mass use.)

i don't know that it ever should either.. supply and demand being what it is.

i just don't like it when the supply side artificially prods the demand side.

 

I'm not against drilling or oil use.. we need to use it while we transform into other energies. I'd like to see the customer, us..  benefit from all of this supply. I don't see much competition in this regard among the oil cartels. 

 

I saw a report n TV news about 3 or 4 years ago.. Memorial Day weekend, gas hit 4 bucks..  and no one stayed home. The reporter was literally walking between jammed traffic on the highway asking families if the price affected their plans.. not only did they all say no, they behaved as if going was thumbing their noses at the system..   I remember thinking,,  the oil execs see this, and they know we will pay it. Demand is set.

Gas in this area has rarely been below 3.65 since .. it's usually around 3.75 for me in an outlying area.

the only way to force any competition or lowering of prices is to use less gas. And we can't / don't want to.

 

~Bang

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OK, so supply is up, demand is down, prices are...    up.

 

Pardon me if I've missed it earlier in the thread, but why is this happening?

 

What should / could I be paying for a gallon of gas?

 

Tell you what.. let's do it in a one post debate. I'm genuinely curious.

Above i  set my median price for regular unleaded, about 3.65 per gallon. i use discount clubs, discount cards.  Still.. 3.65 is about avg.

 

TWA, What could / should i  be paying, and why?

Anyone else, same question.

1 post answer. lay it out.

 

~Bang

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we are using less gas

http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/Article/3161707/US-demand-for-oil-products-drops-to-historic-lows.html

allowing more onshore and inshore drilling will provide both supply and competition for the majors from smaller outfits(deepwater is way too expensive)

Stop lying to yourself. Gas prices more than doubled suddenly, a lot of people and companies made record profits, and the prices never came close to coming back down. You could find that the moon is hollow and filled entirely with oil that can be made to rain down from the sky into funnels at Exxon and gas prices would tick down 15 cents before going right back up a month later.

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I would say $2.75 would be about average of what it should be with todays supply(+local variation by tax rate and blending requirements)

demand in the US is down,elsewhere it is rising(and will continue)

 

the largest factor is crude price rising driven by speculation and unease

there are some increases due to refining/transport bottlenecks

 

addressing trading with position limits ,reducing varied blending requirements and pipeline/refining would drive it down more 

 

you could lower the taxes,but despite being the second largest factor in the price is not going to go down, nor can we afford it now

 

ya also need to play policeman/big brother in the world, but we have already largely decoupled from the world market on crude by limiting export AND increasing domestic supply

reducing the need for imports even further would decouple it even more

addressing the Canadian and Mexico supply would also put pressure on price

 

what we really need is long term energy plans and goals rather than political horse****....like that will happen :rolleyes:

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Stop lying to yourself.

 

Not something I do.....nor do I stick my nuts in a vice and hope no one turns it.

 

Policy here has been to expose supply to risk by depending on imports(from which we are only now reaching the correcting stage).....just think what prices could be.

 

enjoy you coming elect rate increases Amigo 

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Is the US profiting enough is what I'm asking.  I'm not opposed to oil/gas production in the US.  Is every state issuing their citizens checks like Alaska?  If not, why not.  Oil is essentially harvesting riches from US soil, it is not any other business, and much that wealth, if not most that wealth, should stay with the US.  It's already clear that drilling here offers no huge benefit to the US in terms of gas prices because those are set by international markets.  So are we getting enough out of allowing companies to use US oil?  

Also, if we do have a sufficient source of revenue why not eliminate Federal taxation altogether and maybe for states that produce it as well. Assuming it covers the costs. 

 

Does producing that much oil put a target on our backs?

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Also, if we do have a sufficient source of revenue why not eliminate Federal taxation altogether and maybe for states that produce it as well. Assuming it covers the costs. 

 

Does producing that much oil put a target on our backs?

 

You want to eliminate which taxes?

 

Target from who?....the world demand is not slowing w/o us

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/oil/london/opec-sees-world-oil-demand-rising-by-20-mil-bd-26440701

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what we really need is long term energy plans and goals rather than political horse****....like that will happen :rolleyes:

I think I agree with this statement more than any other I've ever seen you write.

Our energy policy is written by those who profit most..  which means we really have no policy to move forward.

 

Taxes on fuel are high, and it seems to me to basically be nothing more than another income tax. Almost everyone must drive to work. If by taxing us they hope to incentiv-ize use of public transortation, it's the wrong way to go about it. Driving isn't a luxury.

 

Even 2.75 seems very high to me, given the amount of production. I know we'll never ever get back down to the good ol' days of under a buck,  but i'd like to see it get back below 2. (Although under 3 in my area would be a steep drop.)

It seems a vicious (and likely purposeful) cycle..  prices are up from those 'good ol' days' because production costs are up, and part of the reason production costs are up is the cost of fuel for delivery.

 

 

This notion of letting each industry dictate policy on our most critical matters gets us all nothing but screwed.

 

~Bang

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i disagree completely.  Petroleum is a perfect place to tax... i just wish the taxes were more systematic (and perhaps countercyclical).

 

 

i also don't think the surge in US production is a great thing at all.   We are FAR from having the most reserves.  we just are the best at sucking what we have under the ground out... right now we have demonstrated that we CAN get to the stocks that we have in an efficient and market worthy manner... and this threat affects market behavior.   but if we suck our reserves up in a mad rush... then the threat disappears again.   

 

I'd rather Venezuela get better at touching THEIR huge stock of reserves-- and us buy it on the open market--- while we they have less leverage, rather than waiting until we are over teh barrel again.

 

(and i know that this is an oversimplification, and that techniques for extraction will CONTANTLY get better, and the USA will NEVER completely deplete reserves...ect..ect....  but the big picture general trend still holds true)

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Prices are not going down, ever. regardless of whatever excuse is ever made for why they can't lower prices, it just won't happen. (And raising it 20 cents to peel it back 4 cents a week later to give us a 'break' doesn't count.)

There is absolutely no reason to lower prices. People have to have the product, and have demonstrated time and again that no matter how far it gets pushed, they will not alter any habits in any significant way to put a dent in the profits.  we need it as a necessity of life, and beyond that we enjoy the things it can do like power our ATVs and boats more than we mind the price.

 

 

Actually, $4 a gallon seems to be the breaking point for when Americans will substantially alter their vehicle use.

 

http://news.leasetrader.com/archive/2011/03/02/Consumer-behavior-unlikely-to-change-until-gas-touches-4-per.aspx

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