WP: The Redskins might be playing to evaluate players, but it’s too early for Mike Shanahan to say so

[Long-Time-Fan]

Miami, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis have all improved in less than 3 years. Shall I go on with more examples? Again, I was not expecting a playoff berth, but I expeceted improvement and there is ZERO improvement with this team.

Your killing me!

Miami?

They beat the Raider,Jets,Rams,Bengals,

Their 4-4 that's your idea of Improvement?

Seattle? 5-4

They beat Dallas, Green-Bay (?) Panthers,Patriots (Hail Mary) Vikings

Tampa Bay? 4-4

They beat

Panthers,KC,Vikings,Oakland

Colts?

I have nothing.

I'm surprised too

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Whooptee do dah day. Maybe I should do a cartwheel. And yet we still lose. Winning is the only thing that counts. Dallass had a defense in the top 5 of every statistical category last year and where did that get them. So you found a couple of stats that we've actually improved on. Congratulations. Too bad everything else has gotten worse.

You said "you see no improvement" and I pointed it out to you.

But again, if you drop the emotion and look at the situation objectively, what is the upside to firing Shanahan other than "HE HASNT FIXED IT FAST ENOUGH SO FIRE HIM"? I mean, our defense sucks sure, but you can fix that. But how many coaches in football can replicate what Shanahan has done offensively?

[cphil006]

if we can find depth for another position, banks should be gone after the bye

Maybe his strides are too small, but he doesn't get the elusiveness or separation I was hoping. We need to find a safety

[Destino]

You can't build a Team in 3 years.

You can't keep the same guys on the field who don't perform.

Why is it so hard for anyone to have any patience these days?

We all expect discipline and we all say I expect accountability and yet when it happens you go...........

Oh,NO WAIT I didn't mean me,I DIDN'T mean for us?

Are you serious?

We all said it was going to take time.

But yet your definition of TIME is 2 years? (remember year 1 is a gimme)

We all said how BAD we were.and how HARD it was going to be to right the ship.

But yet you have no patience to see it through.

Building is a term that suggest progress. When people say a team is "rebuilding" what they imagine at the end of that process is a postseason team that hopefully can make a run. There isn't a soul demanding the the Redskins win the division or make a superbowl run this season. What people do want to see is progress. They want some sign that whatever Shanahan is doing is working. It shouldn't take 5 years to build a 7-9 to 9-7 football team if the right people are in charge. The mere fact that most of the team is becoming more familiar with the offense/defense should create some improvement.

The Redskins haven't won a single game more than they did in Shanahan's first dismal season here as I previously pointed out. If the plan is to take 5 years to move from bad to average, I'm inclined to think poorly of the plan.

[MartinC]

While they've developed a effective offense its not based on Griffin's passing ability its based on Griffin's running ability. And the main reason I would be against a regime change would be the worry about stunting Griffin's development as a passer within the offense. But based on the offense right now I have no qualms about stunting his growth as passer because imho there is no growth to stunt. Imo he has not been developed much in the 3-5-7 step drop rhythm passing game and reading defenses or coverage pre/post snap to warrant any significant lose or re-learning.

I agree with you on the need to expand the offense and change its emphasis which is why one of the things I said in my first post in this thread ...

A few thoughts on this in no particular order.

3. This roster is some way from being a legitimate playoff contender. We need significant help on the field and off it on defence and its time to take the training wheels off RGIII and start reducing the read option and introducing more traditional WCO elements to give RGIII some experience and help his development for next year.

[pjfootballer]

Your killing me!

Miami?

They beat the Raider,Jets,Rams,Bengals,

Their 4-4 that's your idea of Improvement?

Seattle? 5-4

They beat Dallas, Green-Bay (?) Panthers,Patriots (Hail Mary) Vikings

Tampa Bay? 4-4

They beat

Panthers,KC,Vikings,Oakland

Colts?

I have nothing.

I'm surprised too

Well, wouldn't you rather be 4-4 or 5-4 at this point? I mean, you listed some pretty *****y teams that the Fins, Hawks and Bucs beat, yet we "can't" beat the Bengals (in your list) the Rams (in your list) and Panthers (in your list). We should be 5-4. Beat- Saints, Bengals, Rams, Vikings, Panthers, lose to Giants, Steelers, Falcons and Buccaneers.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 10:30 AM ----------

You said "you see no improvement" and I pointed it out to you.

But again, if you drop the emotion and look at the situation objectively, what is the upside to firing Shanahan other than "HE HASNT FIXED IT FAST ENOUGH SO FIRE HIM"? I mean, our defense sucks sure, but you can fix that. But how many coaches in football can replicate what Shanahan has done offensively?

Where did I say fire him? I've lost faith in his ability to turn it around, I don't think I said fire him, unless you think that is what I'm implying.

[Mursilis]

Building is a term that suggest progress. When people say a team is "rebuilding" what they imagine at the end of that process is a postseason team that hopefully can make a run. There isn't a soul demanding the the Redskins win the division or make a superbowl run this season. What people do want to see is progress. They want some sign that whatever Shanahan is doing is working. It shouldn't take 5 years to build a 7-9 to 9-7 football team if the right people are in charge. The mere fact that most of the team is becoming more familiar with the offense/defense should create some improvement.

The Redskins haven't won a single game more than they did in Shanahan's first dismal season here as I previously pointed out. If the plan is to take 5 years to move from bad to average, I'm inclined to think poorly of the plan.

On the other hand, Shanahan's bank account has improved dramatically! Shanahan is Haynesworth with a headset - he's here to underachieve and get paid.

[JdoubleU]

I have no problem with what Shanny said. Now that the easy part of the schedule is over, this team in 3-6. I fear what this team will look like once RGIII goes out with a big injury. The WRs can't get open, the OLine can't sustain pass blocking, the special teams have more negative plays than positive, & Oh God, the defense. I also fear the near future, with the cap penalty and no 1st rounders for the next 2 seasons, this could get REALLY ugly.

[GWinSkins83]

Your killing me!

Miami?

They beat the Raider,Jets,Rams,Bengals,

Their 4-4 that's your idea of Improvement?

Seattle? 5-4

They beat Dallas, Green-Bay (?) Panthers,Patriots (Hail Mary) Vikings

Tampa Bay? 4-4

They beat

Panthers,KC,Vikings,Oakland

Colts?

I have nothing.

I'm surprised too

Those teams are way more organized. Im sorry this team has been getting in its own way players and coaches.

[Long-Time-Fan]

Are they one hit wonders?

Or in the case of the NFL

One year wonders?

Or are they just experiencing their High Now where as ours was a few weeks ago

I'm sorry

I don't know what to say anymore.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Your killing me!

Miami?

They beat the Raider,Jets,Rams,Bengals,

Their 4-4 that's your idea of Improvement?

Seattle? 5-4

They beat Dallas, Green-Bay (?) Panthers,Patriots (Hail Mary) Vikings

Tampa Bay? 4-4

They beat

Panthers,KC,Vikings,Oakland

Colts?

I have nothing.

I'm surprised too

Five of those teams listed we've played.

Three of them we've lost to.

We can't sit and flippantly mock anyone's improvement or not.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

I agree with you on the need to expand the offense and change its emphasis which is why one of the things I said in my first post in this thread ...

And to me the lack of progress made in this area in particular is what makes me more amenable to change then I would be if they had made progress with Griffin.

[heatman28]

Well if anyone should know the shortcomings of a roster it's certainly the guy who picked all of them.

LOL True...true...true

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

All those teams have drafted and acquired talent better than we have. We've found projects that look somewhat promising in the later rounds, but where's our Kam Chancellor? Mike Shanahan as the guy running the entire football operation is far more suspect than Mike the coach. But Mike the personnel guy isn't bad enough to get rid of Mike the coach.

[DogofWar1]

It shouldn't take 5 years to get to 8-8.

Yes...but also no. It's sort of dependent on the circumstances.

I don't want to excuse Shanahan too much, there's blame to be assigned to him, but I think it's worth looking at the Houston Texans for a moment.

They came into the league in 2002. They did not have a winning season until 2007, six years in.

Obviously, the difference is that the Redskins had a roster of players in 2009, while the Texans didn't even exist in 2001. But are they really so different?

The only holdovers from the 2009 regime are Moss, Cooley, Golston, Alexander, Fletcher, Jackson, Chris Wilson, Doughty, Hall, Davis, and Orakpo. Of 66 guys between actives and inactives, 11, 1/6th of them, are from 2009 or earlier. Cooley and Wilson honestly shouldn't even count, they were released, and only brought back because of injury problems. And of those guys, only Moss, Fletcher, Hall, Davis, and Orakpo are starters. 5 of 22 (22ish, with different offensive and defensive packages) starters are from prior to 2009.

The point I'm making is that this team could have literally sprung into existence in 2010, and you probably wouldn't even know the difference. Hell, if we'd sprung into existence in 2010 we'd probably be in better shape than we are now, we wouldn't have had to fight with Hanesworth's contract and a ton of old dead weight that Vinny left lying around for us.

It took a team that sprung into existence 6 years to make the playoffs. We, arguably had an even harder road to travel, with almost everyone being old or terrible, and with contracts we had to fight with. I'd like to see an 8-8 or better season sooner rather than later, but it takes time to build.

[Duckus]

I don't care - I am glad Shanahan said it. At least he is being honest. This season IS over. We are all adults and we might as well talk about the team realistically. It is time to evaluate the organization, starting at the very top.

I am not calling for Shanahan head. But the option to fire him needs to be strongly considered.

[MartinC]

And to me the lack of progress made in this area in particular is what makes me more amenable to change then I would be if they had made progress with Griffin.

I can see that logic. I'm hoping we see the offense expanding after the bye when we self scout to include some 3 and 5 step drop passing. One of the questions in doing more 3 and 5 step drop passing though is the ability of the O'Line to pass protect without the read option and play pass element.

[Skins Wingman]

i have no problem with another regime change, but i wouldnt want them to try and make rg3 a pocket passer like they did with vick. it makes no sense to take away one of a players best assets to be more prototype nfl.

[MattFancy]

Miami, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis have all improved in less than 3 years. Shall I go on with more examples? Again, I was not expecting a playoff berth, but I expected improvement and there is ZERO improvement with this team.

There's some improvement. I'd say the offense is better than we've seen over the last 4 or 5 years easily. But our defense is the worst I've seen in some time, maybe even worse than 2006.

I really don't know what they can do from here on out. Our offense is good enough to hang with most teams, but our defense is so bad that it doesn't matter. If Haslett is still the D coordinator next year, Shanny needs to get the boot. I'm a huge Shanny supporter, but when you're defense is not improving, you have to make a change.

[authentic]

i have no problem with another regime change, but i wouldnt want them to try and make rg3 a pocket passer like they did with vick. it makes no sense to take away one of a players best assets to be more prototype nfl.

RG3 is a better passer from the pocket than Vick, which is why its better than they begin to move toward a more conventional offense at some point in the near future.

[darrelgreenie]

I can see that logic. I'm hoping we see the offense expanding after the bye when we self scout to include some 3 and 5 step drop passing. One of the questions in doing more 3 and 5 step drop passing though is the ability of the O'Line to pass protect without the read option and play pass element.

Imo one of the benefits of 3-step passing, and 5 -step to a lesser degree, is it all but nullifies the OL. IIRC the ball should be coming out in 1.3s or less. We give Polumbus help (like we have all season) and scheme some open receivers we should be okay (imo). I watch a decent amount of Colts game and our fans claim our OL is better then theirs and they run a alot of 5-7 step drop passing.

I'm still surprised that we run read option almost exclusively from Pistol and very little (it at all) from Spread formations. Its hard to complain about the offense because its been effective, but I still think Griffin is being used at a sub-optimal level. If we're going borrow from the college game we should borrow more from Baylor and they ran far more Spread read option then Pistol read-option.

[kobra860]

Shanny using reverse psychology to motivate his player. I am sure no coach does that.

The media is not going to buy that. They take everything for face value.

[TSO]

He went onto say the coaches take their part in the blame. AFTER he as good as said the year was done and we're evaluating for the coming years.

Take individual parts out of context and go ahead and do 'your thing.' We all deserve a losing a team after all. Isn't that how it goes?

Hail.

Lol, my response was to include everything he said. Thats simply the antithesis to taking anything out of context. Before or after has nothing to do with that, the fact is he did say it and its being overlooked. Furthermore, he immediately stated we're not out of it mathematically after it alluding to his evaluation being more that he's so disappointed we couldnt come up with this win that he has to really look at everyone again. You really can be foolish at times, man.

But, Whatever makes you feel better. :thumbsup:

[Skins Wingman]

RG3 is a better passer from the pocket than Vick, which is why its better than they begin to move toward a more conventional offense at some point in the near future.

im all about introducing him to more of a drop back system. just dont want them to completely take away the option and running part of his game.

[Diesel Hog]

I don't care - I am glad Shanahan said it. At least he is being honest. This season IS over. We are all adults and we might as well talk about the team realistically. It is time to evaluate the organization, starting at the very top.

I am not calling for Shanahan head. But the option to fire him needs to be strongly considered.

I agree with the first part, but I think Shanny & Co. (minus Hasslet) should have one more year. Year 2 of RG3, an offseason to fix the D, and this team could be a 10-6 type team next season.

I have absolutely no problem with what Shanny said. I mean, how many teams that started 3-6 have made it to the Playoffs? This season is pretty much over, time now to evaluate and see who can be a good contributor and who needs to go.