Teller Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 That says nothing about C-SPAN, who did televise the Congressional debates which happened on the floor. What wasn't televised, though, were some of the negotiation processes which took place between the states, the political parties, with drug companies, etc., and if you want those sort of negotiations to be televised, then you have to ask the Republicans to also participate in such transparency. But let's not act as if C-SPAN didn't have any involvement in the year-long debate, because they did. The president made the promise. The president made the mistake. The president admitted the mistake. But go after republicans. I'd expect no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The president made the promise. The president made the mistake. The president admitted the mistake. But go after republicans. I'd expect no less. Obama cannot control everything Congress does, but you're right -- Obama should be held to the standard he set forth for himself. Don't get me wrong -- I don't want "backroom deals, I don't like the idea of corporate deal-making and everything should be in full daylight, and any secrecy lies to blame with Democrats and their desire to get the bill passed. I won't find assign blame with the Republicans on that matter. But I only made my references to the Republicans because they have fault tooth and nail against transparency, especially post Citizens United when it comes to corporate donations. If you are going to expect 100% transparency in our government, then it has to become a culture in Washington and MUST include both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The Hill: Poll: Independent voters want GOP to stop fighting health law Question is...will the GOP recognize this and pivot back to the economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 lol urban dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tax 2. tax Giving money you don't have to people you don't know for a program you don't believe in. 3. tax legalized theft created by and used by the government. mostly used to pay for a war in iraq or to give money to lazy pos who refuse to work (see welfare) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The Hill: Poll: Independent voters want GOP to stop fighting health lawQuestion is...will the GOP recognize this and pivot back to the economy? No, because they are tying to die this directly to the economy using their tried and true "jobs killer" phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The Hill: Poll: Independent voters want GOP to stop fighting health lawQuestion is...will the GOP recognize this and pivot back to the economy? god i hope not. it's pretty great watching them lose the messaging war for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 No absolutely not... This entire tempest is a communication failure in the GOP. The rank and file GOP'ers want to sling dirt at Obama so they are claiming it's a tax, SCJ said so!!!. Perfectly reasonable.Only they haven't realized it yet that Romney's program in Mass did the exact same thing and Romney is already on record saying he didn't raise taxes as Gov. So the mud they are slinging sticks to both guys equally.. Look for everybody to agree shortly it's not a tax but a penelty as both candidates already have. So two politicians positioning themselves to be (or remain) the most powerful man in the world get to define what it is...not the supreme court? This is all very confusing to me. (not really) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikered30 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 it is not a tax but a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 it is not a tax but a penalty. According to Roberts and the court, yes. IMO, they found an unconstitutional bill constitutional by naming something that's not intended as a tax a tax. Clarity at its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 god i hope not. it's pretty great watching them lose the messaging war for once. Just wait ....a war is not determined by a skirmish but since you like polls http://www.thedailybeast.com/content/dam/dailybeast/2012/6/29/Poll-Final.pdf Barack Obama now rates behind Jimmy Carter in the pantheon of great presidents according to likely voters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Just wait ....a war is not determined by a skirmishbut since you like polls http://www.thedailybeast.com/content/dam/dailybeast/2012/6/29/Poll-Final.pdf Barack Obama now rates behind Jimmy Carter in the pantheon of great presidents according to likely voters We should have listened to Carter more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 We should have listened to Carter more. he was a good man...terrible leader he made me a neocon:ols: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 god i hope not. it's pretty great watching them lose the messaging war for once. I ask because like we've said earlier. The message from the GOP and the message from Romney are the opposite of each other. How will they hammer on this if the guy they want you to vote for says the same thing as Obama on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 GOP is in a no-win situation on health care now. i hope they keep throwing that tantrum about it, though. they've really captured the mood of the people. ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Just wait ....a war is not determined by a skirmishbut since you like polls http://www.thedailybeast.com/content/dam/dailybeast/2012/6/29/Poll-Final.pdf Barack Obama now rates behind Jimmy Carter in the pantheon of great presidents according to likely voters But still ahead of Bush II, who Republicans voted for twice. Of course, this has little to do with the dishonesty shown by Republicans during the entire health care debate. "It's the largest tax in HISTORY!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 is that similar to a friend with benefits? Sure....after it gets complicated but is was fun for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Has this really changed the election calculus? I think President Obama still wins re-election with fewer than 300 electoral votes, R's keep the House and probably get a 1 seat majority in the Senate. I don't see anything tracking in a different direction, but it is also only July Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I think the ruling helped Obama, but I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 As has been pointed out, many hours of the health care reform debates were televised. Making statements that gloss over that reflect sloppy thinking at best. And making statements suggesting that Obama hasn't failed severely at transparency reflect denial at best. Not all the backdoor stuff was televised, which is typical. It's worth repeating that nonetheless Obama does get a "fail" on his overall promise of "transparency." A number of the politicos in this fourm are reflective of why we're so screwed up. People are often fairly ignorant (literally) opinion-generating machines whose ego has convinced them they're quite knowledgeable (about almost anything, apparently) and that they also have excellent <cough> judgment. Oddly enough, even when some such say they "actually" have far less grandiose evaluations of themselves, they will still often pontificate and behave as though it were otherwise. I think in this forum we actually have a "superior" mix of opinionators (Jumbo trademarked :pfft:) than most similar venues---how sad is that? :evilg: Too often, and to a seriously damaging degree, many of us can't get past "our politics" to deal with a matter objectively and applying accurately informed critical thinking. Kudos to Wrong Direction as someone who consistently applies easily discernible effort (at least to me) to often do just that, while being aware of and acknowledging his own leanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 If I had a quarter for every time Jumbo politely, and in far too many words, called me a dumbass, I'd be a wealthy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiggs Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This is all the left care about, trash the constitution, the declaration of independence, pit everyone against each other, black, white, Hispanic, male, female,gay, christian.. This is a small list, all because they want the letter "D" besides the winners name. I know for a fact just because i replied with these words, every lefty in here will assume i'm a republican. I could care less about George Bush, Bill Clinton, and this alinsky socialist Obama.. The very fabric and glue that the 4th of July stands for, what people die for "freedom" is under assault.. i for one don't give a crap about your ideology, so label me if you must because im concerned about freedom..The most logical reply from this board will be an attack..Probably start with grammar..Makes people feel smart..Or from the thread rule police because they like power...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Freedom isn't absolute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This is all the left care about, trash the constitution, the declaration of independence, pit everyone against each other, black, white, Hispanic, male, female,gay, christian.. This is a small list, all because they want the letter "D" besides the winners name. I know for a fact just because i replied with these words, every lefty in here will assume i'm a republican. I could care less about George Bush, Bill Clinton, and this alinsky socialist Obama.. The very fabric and glue that the 4th of July stands for, what people die for "freedom" is under assault.. i for one don't give a crap about your ideology, so label me if you must because im concerned about freedom..The most logical reply from this board will be an attack..Probably start with grammar..Makes people feel smart..Or from the thread rule police because they like power...... Looks like you've got all your bases covered. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This is all the left care about, trash the constitution, the declaration of independence, pit everyone against each other, black, white, Hispanic, male, female,gay, christian.. This is a small list, all because they want the letter "D" besides the winners name. I know for a fact just because i replied with these words, every lefty in here will assume i'm a republican. I could care less about George Bush, Bill Clinton, and this alinsky socialist Obama.. The very fabric and glue that the 4th of July stands for, what people die for "freedom" is under assault.. i for one don't give a crap about your ideology, so label me if you must because im concerned about freedom..The most logical reply from this board will be an attack..Probably start with grammar..Makes people feel smart..Or from the thread rule police because they like power...... Before I reply to HH, I'll help you. I will help you by feeding the nonsense in your head (if there's room for any more noise) that this post (and others) projects. I will make manifest your vision of power-hungry thread police by sending you and your nonsense away to go play elsewhere for a nice long break. btw---let me feed your grammar-demon fear too--that awesome sig--- learn how to spell "infidel" so you don't look so distressingly ignorant---never mind, probably won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I do enjoy my peeps getting their knickers twisted because they can't freeload (despite being able to afford it) on the rest of us who pay into the healthcare system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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