NFL.COM: Giants Targeted 49ers Williams in Playoffs

[HailGreen28]

How do you target a concussion? Unless you're talking about hitting a player in the head, which the Giants did not do.

You are aware that he did not suffer a concussion in the Giants game right?

Putting a hard hit on a player that is recovering from a concussion is not a penalty, or dirty.

How do you target a concussion? The dirty Giants player just said so. "He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.' (Defensive back Tyler) Sash did a great job hitting him early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up." If that's not targeting a guy, trying to give him another concussion, what is?

According to your own dirty Giant, the targeted player was dazed and coughed up the ball because of it. If the player in question wasn't officially concussed, it wasn't from lack of trying, and he was "dazed" in the dirty Giant's own words.

Again, Gregg Williams got an indefinite ban for the same kind of talk.

[BlueinBuf]

How do you target a concussion? The dirty Giants player just said so. "He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.' (Defensive back Tyler) Sash did a great job hitting him early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up." If that's not targeting a guy, trying to give him another concussion, what is?

According to your own dirty Giant, the targeted player was dazed and coughed up the ball because of it. If the player in question wasn't officially concussed, it wasn't from lack of trying, and he was "dazed" in the dirty Giant's own words.

Again, Gregg Williams got an indefinite ban for the same kind of talk.

So you want to punish the Giants players for legal hits against Kyle Williams? Now I get it. You keep quoting that line about the hit Tyler Sash put on him, while basically admitting you didn't see the hit(or I assume you didn't since you asked someone else how they knew it was a legal hit). So if it was a perfectly legal hit that dazed Kyle Williams, why should the giants be punished?

Or are you saying that a player suffering from a concussion should only be allowed to be hit with a certain amount of force? How hard should a player that is recovering from a concussion be allowed to be hit? And how do you plan on measuring that and enforcing it during a game?

And actually Greg Williams got an indefinite ban for a bounty system.

[HailGreen28]

So you want to punish the Giants players for legal hits against Kyle Williams? Now I get it. You keep quoting that line about the hit Tyler Sash put on him, while basically admitting you didn't see the hit(or I assume you didn't since you asked someone else how they knew it was a legal hit). So if it was a perfectly legal hit that dazed Kyle Williams, why should the giants be punished?

Deliberately trying to give an opposing player a concussion is illegal, and should be. Gregg Williams wasn't suspended for any particular hit either. Geez, you want to argue that the opposing player wasn't targeted and actually harmed? Argue against your own dirty Giants players!

Or are you saying that a player suffering from a concussion should only be allowed to be hit with a certain amount of force? How hard should a player that is recovering from a concussion be allowed to be hit? And how do you plan on measuring that and enforcing it during a game?

And actually Greg Williams got an indefinite ban for a bounty system.

Deliberately trying to give an opposing player a concussion is illegal, and should be. And wrong on your part, Gregg Williams has been banned for a BOUNTY SYSTEM that TARGETED OPPOSING PLAYERS FOR INJURY. You appear to understand the first part I capitalized, but not the second. Do you understand the second part. If you do, please reread your own players quotes, and compare them to Gregg's. Keep in mind, the dirty Giants players actually claim to have done what they said, in their own words.

"He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.' (Defensive back Tyler) Sash did a great job hitting him early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up."

[Mad Mike]

The part where it's different from Donte Whitner talking about taking a guy out of game.

From your own link.... (a biased source, not know for classy journalism)

Take him out like the six other backs they took out this season or maybe the safety just means take Bradshaw out of the game by shutting him down.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/ahmad_about_you_rB7KvJufmdAqa7ZU1Sk7PJ#ixzz1rZ047k8K

[Bang]

We live in the Age of the Ninny.

And it's pathetic.

~Bang

[BlueinBuf]

Deliberately trying to give an opposing player a concussion is illegal, and should be. Gregg Williams wasn't suspended for any particular hit either. Geez, you want to argue that the opposing player wasn't targeted and actually harmed? Argue against your own dirty Giants players!

Deliberately trying to give an opposing player a concussion is illegal, and should be. And wrong on your part, Gregg Williams has been banned for a BOUNTY SYSTEM that TARGETED OPPOSING PLAYERS FOR INJURY. You appear to understand the first part I capitalized, but not the second. Do you understand the second part. If you do, please reread your own players quotes, and compare them to Gregg's. Keep in mind, the dirty Giants players actually claim to have done what they said, in their own words.

"He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.' (Defensive back Tyler) Sash did a great job hitting him early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up."

Please show a quote that says they were trying to give him a concussion and not just hit him. To me put a hit on a guy does not equal give him a concussion.

I'm not arguing he wasn't targeted, so let's say he was harmed, how is that the fault of the Giants if all the hits were perfectly legal? If Kyle Williams' coaches allow him to go play football then the Giants have no option other than to tackle him.

If there were any illegal hits to the head it would be a different story. But there weren't, there were no cheapshots or anything like that.

From the same game here's a link with a quote from Carlos Rogers saying "we need to take out" Eli Manning http://www.giants101.com/2012/04/05/san-francisco-49ers-tried-to-take-out-new-york-giants-eli-manning-in-nfc-championship-game/

All the hits I saw on Eli were good clean hits though so I don't care.

[Popeman38]

The point is, BlueinBuf and Big Blue Joe, that YOUR owner whined about the Redskins and Cowboys violating the spirit of the salary cap (when there was no salary cap) and imposed draconian sanctions the day before free agency began. In so doing, he proved to be a petty, vindictive little *****, and naturally will incur the wrath of Redskins and Cowboys fans alike. So you should be proud. Your owner did something no other force in the universe could: united the Redskins and Cowboys for a cause.

And when the arbiter overturns the penalties, enjoy the basement. But please, by all means continue to think that the NYG are the epitome of class and organization.

Bill Parcells

Lawrence Taylor

Tiki Barber

Leonard Marshall

Yeah, that portrays class out the ass....

[HeluCopter29]

Please show a quote that says they were trying to give him a concussion and not just hit him. To me put a hit on a guy does not equal give him a concussion.

If I tell you to go injure a guy and then tell you his weak point, what are you going to target? Concussions are different from arm injuries in that I can injure your arm a multitude of different ways and break many different things in your arm. With your brain, the only way to do it is to knock it so hard that you are then labled "concussed."

If I'm going to hit a guy so hard that he's knocked out of the game, and the guy has a history of concussions, I'm probably gonna try to hit him so hard he get's another. It would make no sense to try to break his arm if I'll have more success with his head.

I'm not arguing he wasn't targeted, so let's say he was harmed, how is that the fault of the Giants if all the hits were perfectly legal? If Kyle Williams' coaches allow him to go play football then the Giants have no option other than to tackle him.

If there were any illegal hits to the head it would be a different story. But there weren't, there were no cheapshots or anything like that.

Tackling a guy and hitting a guy so hard he get's a concussion are extremely different. I already explained why they were trying to give him a concussion. If he's out there, and has the ball, then yes you should go tackle him because that's how you play football. But if my thought process changes from trying to tackle him to trying to injure him, then there's something wrong. Regardless of whether or not the hits in the game itself are legal or not, if the intent is there then it's wrong. If I'm gonna try and commit a crime but I mess it up somehow, I'm still wrong for trying.

From the same game here's a link with a quote from Carlos Rogers saying "we need to take out" Eli Manning http://www.giants101.com/2012/04/05/san-francisco-49ers-tried-to-take-out-new-york-giants-eli-manning-in-nfc-championship-game/

All the hits I saw on Eli were good clean hits though so I don't care.

I would never say Rogers was in the right for saying what he said. But giving someone a debilitating injury like a concussion and taking him out of the game aren't the same exact crime. Both bad, but one's a hell of a lot worse in my book.

[BlueinBuf]

See to me if the guy can't take a legal NFL hit without getting a concussion he has no business being on the field. It's not the Giants responsibility to protect him. Yeah you can say they're trying to hit him harder than other guys, but that's not illegal, as long as they aren't directly targeting his head I would encourage every player on the team to try and hit every player on the other team as hard as they can.

And I still think they meant to hit him more as a form of intimidation than to injure. A few years back I got a concussion playing in a flag football league, came back after a month off and I can tell you that the concussion was on my mind. Every play, everytime I got hit, I thought about it. To me that's how you target a player with a concussion, you don't have to actually give him another one, just hit him hard enough that he starts to think about it. Who knows maybe that's what happened and that's why he wasn't paying attention and let the ball hit his knee.

[HeluCopter29]

See to me if the guy can't take a legal NFL hit without getting a concussion he has no business being on the field. It's not the Giants responsibility to protect him. Yeah you can say they're trying to hit him harder than other guys, but that's not illegal, as long as they aren't directly targeting his head I would encourage every player on the team to try and hit every player on the other team as hard as they can.

It's intention vs. execution. Brett Favre played the entire NFC championship game against the Saints. Just because the Saints didn't put him out of the game, doesn't mean that they shouldn't be punished for trying.

The Giants didn't have any hits that were obviously trying to give Williams a concussion, but that doesn't mean they didn't try.

And I still think they meant to hit him more as a form of intimidation than to injure. A few years back I got a concussion playing in a flag football league, came back after a month off and I can tell you that the concussion was on my mind. Every play, everytime I got hit, I thought about it. To me that's how you target a player with a concussion, you don't have to actually give him another one, just hit him hard enough that he starts to think about it. Who knows maybe that's what happened and that's why he wasn't paying attention and let the ball hit his knee.

And you're right, that's very well what could have happened on that play. But if the Giants said "we want to take him out of the game" I think that means they were trying to injure him so he couldn't play anymore. If the weak point is his brain, then they were probably going to try and injure that even further.

[Big Blue Joe]

And when the arbiter overturns the penalties, enjoy the basement. But please, by all means continue to think that the NYG are the epitome of class and organization.

I couldn't care less about class, I'd rather see the team win. But I am curious what makes you think the Giants are going to be a bad team next year.

[HeluCopter29]

I couldn't care less about class, I'd rather see the team win. But I am curious what makes you think the Giants are going to be a bad team next year.

For me, I don't think they'll be a bad team. But they'll struggle again this year like they did last year. Yes, that's right. The Super Bowl champion Giants barely got into the playoffs at 9-7.

Eli is NOT elite. One good year doesn't make you elite. Two good games in the Super Bowl does not make you elite. Years of consistent, good production makes you elite. Let's not call a guy who has only thrown for over 4100 yards once in 7 years as a starter elite.

The Giants lost a few key players in Aaron Ross, Marion Manningham, and Brandon Jacobs (Although you could debate how valuable Jacobs actually was as he was certainly the most expendable of the 3).

I know they won the Super Bowl, but let's not forget they were also a 9-7 team.

[Popeman38]

I couldn't care less about class, I'd rather see the team win. But I am curious what makes you think the Giants are going to be a bad team next year.

Simple economics. The Giants are up against the cap, and will be next year as well. When you win, and you lose key guys, you have to replace in FA. When you don't have much money to operate in FA, you have to settle for lesser players. Your LB corps is weak. Your secondary is average. You have a great DL, though it won't be together forever. Your WR corps lost Manningham (still probably the best in the division, but not as strong). Your Oline is a year older (and it wasn't young last year). Your RBs are average. You have a QB that is just below elite status. 9-7 is about what you are looking at next year. Next year, that won't win the Division. IF the arbiter overturns the penalties (by all legal analysis a likely outcome), the Skins will have either compensatory draft picks or extra cap space over the next several years. The Eagles won't suck next year. The Skins won't suck next year. The Cowboys, well I hope they suck next year. The years of the Giants rallying to win the division late with an average record are over. You are going to have to win 11+ games to win the division. Your team got weaker over the offseason. Weaker ≠ better.

[pointyfootball]

For me, I don't think they'll be a bad team. But they'll struggle again this year like they did last year. Yes, that's right. The Super Bowl champion Giants barely got into the playoffs at 9-7.

Eli is NOT elite. One good year doesn't make you elite. Two good games in the Super Bowl does not make you elite. Years of consistent, good production makes you elite. Let's not call a guy who has only thrown for over 4100 yards once in 7 years as a starter elite.

I strongly dislike the Giants, but couldn't disagree with you more, especially your second paragraph. Like it or not, Eli is elite and has shown that he gets better as the games get more important, unlike his brother. Elite = top 5 NFL QBs, and I think he fits in there.

[pjfootballer]

Eli had a good season last year when the rest of the team was not playing well. Eli doesn't stink, but I still don't think he's in the class of Brees, Brady or his older brother. He has consistantly put up 3500 yards and 25-30 TDs a year, but I still don't call that elite. He's been able to have some great 4th quarter combacks, but his 2 Super Bowl games, statistically-wise have been mediocre. I think he's a level below elite, meaning he's solid, kind of like Phil Simms was for them back in the day. If Eli can put up back to back seasons of 4500+ yards and 40 TDs, I'll call him elite. Until then, he's just a solid QB to me. And it's my opinion and not jealousy. I hope Griffin can be a solid guy for us for 10 years like Eli has been with the Giants.

[pointyfootball]

Eli had a good season last year when the rest of the team was not playing well. Eli doesn't stink, but I still don't think he's in the class of Brees, Brady or his older brother. He has consistantly put up 3500 yards and 25-30 TDs a year, but I still don't call that elite. He's been able to have some great 4th quarter combacks, but his 2 Super Bowl games, statistically-wise have been mediocre. I think he's a level below elite, meaning he's solid, kind of like Phil Simms was for them back in the day. If Eli can put up back to back seasons of 4500+ yards and 40 TDs, I'll call him elite. Until then, he's just a solid QB to me. And it's my opinion and not jealousy. I hope Griffin can be a solid guy for us for 10 years like Eli has been with the Giants.

I respect your opinion, but think there's only 3 QBs above/equal to him right now: Brady, Brees & Rodgers. In fact, I think he's better than Brady, as I think Brady is dropping off, partly b/c his team doesn't think he needs WRs.

[pjfootballer]

I respect your opinion, but think there's only 3 QBs above/equal to him right now: Brady, Brees & Rodgers. In fact, I think he's better than Brady, as I think Brady is dropping off, partly b/c his team doesn't think he needs WRs.

My list ahead of him would be:

Brady

Peyton

Rodgers

Rivers (stat wise and not championship wise)

Brees

Those would be my 5 elite. My next level would be:

Eli (he would lead this group and is better than any in this group)

Cutler

Schaub (when healthy)

Big Ben

Matt Ryan

Romo sits to pee

Carson Palmer (although he's getting older, I think he has a season or 2 left in the tank)

Vick

Guys who have had a great season, but haven't been consistant for a period of time and are up and comers:

Stafford

Cam

A. Smith

Fitzpatrick

Bradford

Dalton

[BlueinBuf]

Lol this thread got so offtrack on this page, but I like it and I'll play along.

The Giants lost a 3rd string CB and WR, and a half starting RB. I know someone above mentioned Jacobs being the least impactful loss, but honestly I think he might be the most given Bradshaws history of injury.

They gained a TE who I think has more potential than anyone they've had on the team since Shockey.

They get their #2 CB back from injury, who knows if he'll be the same player after a second ACL injury though.

LB is an interesting spot, Boley played great last year, Kiwanuka is average, and MLB is basically a Giant(haha see what I did there) question mark atm.

After being last in the league in almost every statistical category I don't think the oline has anywhere to go but up.

I'd say they have a great chance to win the division again.

[HeluCopter29]

Lol this thread got so offtrack on this page, but I like it and I'll play along.

The Giants lost a 3rd string CB and WR, and a half starting RB. I know someone above mentioned Jacobs being the least impactful loss, but honestly I think he might be the most given Bradshaws history of injury.

They gained a TE who I think has more potential than anyone they've had on the team since Shockey.

They get their #2 CB back from injury, who knows if he'll be the same player after a second ACL injury though.

LB is an interesting spot, Boley played great last year, Kiwanuka is average, and MLB is basically a Giant(haha see what I did there) question mark atm.

After being last in the league in almost every statistical category I don't think the oline has anywhere to go but up.

I'd say they have a great chance to win the division again.

I'd say that they do have a great chance to win the division again, but the NFC East isn't anything special.

The question with the Giants is that they were 32nd in running the football and Eli has had one very exceptional year. No news on yet on whether or not he can keep it up. They were 27th on defense. And the O-Line having no where to go but up, doesn't mean they will go up. Aaron Ross and Manningham may have been 3rd string, but they were quite good. Bennett should be pretty good for you guys, but I wouldn't say he's gonna be anything exceptional.

[pjfootballer]

Bennett hasn't proven a damn thing. He was a failure in Dallass. You lost your backup/sometimes starter WR in Manningham and Ramses Barden has caught what, 8 passes in his career? The once best WR unit is down to Hicks and Cruz. Now, the Giants have always been a good drafting team, but since you guys just lost Tollefson to the Raiders, I imagine your GM will go DLine again in the 1st round, ignoring a weakness like LBer. I think your OLine is getting old, but may have a couple more years left. I think you're fine at RB as Scott and Ware can back up Bradshaw, but you better hope Ahmad's feet heal. The secondary and DLine is where the Giants have alot of good depth and alot of good players. Certainly the strength of the team. And like HeluCopter29 said, the NFC East has been garbage lately, but I wouldn't count on the Eagles being 8-8 again or count on us being 5-11 again. I think a team will have to get to 11 wins this year to win it. We could easily improve to 8-8 or 9-7 which as about where I think we'll end up.

[SkinsFTW]

If Eli can put up back to back seasons of 4500+ yards and 40 TDs, I'll call him elite. Until then, he's just a solid QB to me. And it's my opinion and not jealousy. I hope Griffin can be a solid guy for us for 10 years like Eli has been with the Giants.

Wow thats rough man. I don't consider him in the elite top 5 either but NO QB has ever even thrown 40+ td passes two seasons in a row and you also expect him to top 4500 yards too? In fact there had never been a season where 2 QB's threw 40+ TD's until last year. I'm sure the lockout helped and this year TD's will be back down unless the Bounty gate thing has a huge effect. Only Brees, P. Manning, Moon, and Rivers have consecutively thrown for 4500 yards. Brady never did it, Marino never did it, and Favre never even did it once.

Eli is pretty good, and he doesn't lose his team games in the playoffs like he does in the regular season but it's not like he's taking over playoff games. Thats what his defense does, not him. He's like Simms, I agree. Simms threw a ton of pics in the regular season too and then had great a great post season 1 year, Eli's done that to a lesser extent twice now but that doesn't make him elite.

[BlueinBuf]

Bennett hasn't proven a damn thing. He was a failure in Dallass. You lost your backup/sometimes starter WR in Manningham and Ramses Barden has caught what, 8 passes in his career? The once best WR unit is down to Hicks and Cruz. Now, the Giants have always been a good drafting team, but since you guys just lost Tollefson to the Raiders, I imagine your GM will go DLine again in the 1st round, ignoring a weakness like LBer. I think your OLine is getting old, but may have a couple more years left. I think you're fine at RB as Scott and Ware can back up Bradshaw, but you better hope Ahmad's feet heal. The secondary and DLine is where the Giants have alot of good depth and alot of good players. Certainly the strength of the team. And like HeluCopter29 said, the NFC East has been garbage lately, but I wouldn't count on the Eagles being 8-8 again or count on us being 5-11 again. I think a team will have to get to 11 wins this year to win it. We could easily improve to 8-8 or 9-7 which as about where I think we'll end up.

That's why I said potential, because I know Bennett hasn't proven anything, but now let's see what he can do with one of the best TE coaches in the league and an elite QB

I'm actually hoping a guy with less catches than Ramses Barden wins the 3rd WR spot, Jerrell Jernigan, drafted last year. Hopefully with a full offseason to work out with Eli he can get something going.

I don't even try to predict the draft anymore, I never would have guessed Amukamara would fall to the Giants last year. But maybe I just feel secure because I don't worry about losing our 3rd best WR or 4th best DE because I trust the front office to fill in those holes with the draft, and they usually do it well.

I'm going to be very interested to see what the Giants Oline looks like come September. Unless they sign a vet FA I have to disagree about the line getting older, if anything this year it will get younger with the departure of McKenzie at RT. Especially if Brewer who was a rookie last year can compete for and win that spot. Now that might hurt the chemistry but after watching them play last year I'm up for anything to try and improve. I think the most scrutiny will be on David Baas who was the big FA signing last offseason, and he didn't play particularly well, it actually seemed like the line played much better during the games he was injured.

I certainly hope the Redskins improve this year, my best friend is a Skins fan and I don't like seeing him so depressed every sunday. I know the eagles will probably be better than 8-8 but I really hope not, love watching them fail.

[pjfootballer]

Wow thats rough man. I don't consider him in the elite top 5 either but NO QB has ever even thrown 40+ td passes two seasons in a row and you also expect him to top 4500 yards too? In fact there had never been a season where 2 QB's threw 40+ TD's until last year. I'm sure the lockout helped and this year TD's will be back down unless the Bounty gate thing has a huge effect. Only Brees, P. Manning, Moon, and Rivers have consecutively thrown for 4500 yards. Brady never did it, Marino never did it, and Favre never even did it once.

Eli is pretty good, and he doesn't lose his team games in the playoffs like he does in the regular season but it's not like he's taking over playoff games. Thats what his defense does, not him. He's like Simms, I agree. Simms threw a ton of pics in the regular season too and then had great a great post season 1 year, Eli's done that to a lesser extent twice now but that doesn't make him elite.

I'll lower it to 4000 and 35+ TDs. But with this being a passing league, I think you'll see more of the same as you've seen the last few years. I think I'm being very fair in my assessment of him. Simms came to mind as a comparison, not stat wise, but like you said, he seems to turn it on when it's crunch time, much like Simms.

---------- Post added April-10th-2012 at 04:01 PM ----------

That's why I said potential, because I know Bennett hasn't proven anything, but now let's see what he can do with one of the best TE coaches in the league and an elite QB

I'm actually hoping a guy with less catches than Ramses Barden wins the 3rd WR spot, Jerrell Jernigan, drafted last year. Hopefully with a full offseason to work out with Eli he can get something going.

I don't even try to predict the draft anymore, I never would have guessed Amukamara would fall to the Giants last year. But maybe I just feel secure because I don't worry about losing our 3rd best WR or 4th best DE because I trust the front office to fill in those holes with the draft, and they usually do it well.

I'm going to be very interested to see what the Giants Oline looks like come September. Unless they sign a vet FA I have to disagree about the line getting older, if anything this year it will get younger with the departure of McKenzie at RT. Especially if Brewer who was a rookie last year can compete for and win that spot. Now that might hurt the chemistry but after watching them play last year I'm up for anything to try and improve. I think the most scrutiny will be on David Baas who was the big FA signing last offseason, and he didn't play particularly well, it actually seemed like the line played much better during the games he was injured.

I certainly hope the Redskins improve this year, my best friend is a Skins fan and I don't like seeing him so depressed every sunday. I know the eagles will probably be better than 8-8 but I really hope not, love watching them fail.

Jernigan is kind of a little guy isn't he? I think you guys have some interesting OLine players to replace your aging guys like McKenzie and Snee, but they will lack experience and like you said, my lack cohesiveness. I hope we improve also, I'm tired of being the Cardinals of the division. I too would like to see the Eagles fall flat again.

[HailGreen28]

Please show a quote that says they were trying to give him a concussion and not just hit him. To me put a hit on a guy does not equal give him a concussion.

I'm not arguing he wasn't targeted, so let's say he was harmed, how is that the fault of the Giants if all the hits were perfectly legal? If Kyle Williams' coaches allow him to go play football then the Giants have no option other than to tackle him.

If there were any illegal hits to the head it would be a different story. But there weren't, there were no cheapshots or anything like that.

Again. A quote from your own dirty Giants player. "He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.' (Defensive back Tyler) Sash did a great job hitting him early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up."

The Giants were talking about his concussion, targeted him, were happy he was "dazed", and felt it made a difference in the game. What more do you need? Signed notarized copies of more statements in duplicate?

At this point you're just stonewalling, trying to deny what the dirty Giants actually did.

From the same game here's a link with a quote from Carlos Rogers saying "we need to take out" Eli Manning http://www.giants101.com/2012/04/05/san-francisco-49ers-tried-to-take-out-new-york-giants-eli-manning-in-nfc-championship-game/

All the hits I saw on Eli were good clean hits though so I don't care.

And was there any talk of giving Eli a brain injury? Or bragging or carrying it out?

Lol, take a generic "take him out of the game" quote, and try to insinuate that's any way comparable to dirty Giants / Gregg Williams type targeting. If you really believe the Rogers quote is bad, you should be EMBARRASSED to be a Giants fan. But you're just trying to insinuate a quote is as bad as what a Giants player actually said, aren't you?

Let's see punishments handed out evenly in the NFL, and the dirty Giants players penalized like the Saints are. For the same talk and actions.

edit: The other talk the thread's swung to, is actually pretty good, and maybe it should be split off? I'm just taking about the hypocrisy on part of the NFL and others. How the Giants aren't punished for what Gregg Williams was banned indefinitely for.

"We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill (his) head. We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways."

"He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.'

"We need to find out in the first two series of the game, the little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion. We need to ******' put a lick on him."

One team got penalized for these remarks. One didn't.

[HeluCopter29]

Wow thats rough man. I don't consider him in the elite top 5 either but NO QB has ever even thrown 40+ td passes two seasons in a row and you also expect him to top 4500 yards too? In fact there had never been a season where 2 QB's threw 40+ TD's until last year. I'm sure the lockout helped and this year TD's will be back down unless the Bounty gate thing has a huge effect. Only Brees, P. Manning, Moon, and Rivers have consecutively thrown for 4500 yards. Brady never did it, Marino never did it, and Favre never even did it once.

Eli is pretty good, and he doesn't lose his team games in the playoffs like he does in the regular season but it's not like he's taking over playoff games. Thats what his defense does, not him. He's like Simms, I agree. Simms threw a ton of pics in the regular season too and then had great a great post season 1 year, Eli's done that to a lesser extent twice now but that doesn't make him elite.

You're right that being able to do that is very challenging, although I'll admit that I am surprised it's been done so few times. I would agree that Eli is pretty good. I'd certainly say he's top 10 in the league, and probably even top 7.

In terms of QB's I'd have starting on my "dream team" this is how I'd rank them personally.

1. Drew Brees
   
2. Tom Brady
   
3. Aaron Roders
   
4. Ben Roethlisberger
   
5. Cam Newton
   
6. Peyton Manning
   
7. Matt Ryan/Eli Manning depending on how I'm feeling
   

I personally, don't think that Rodgers (shocking, ain't it?), Big Ben, or Cam Newton are elite. I'm taking a "wait and see" approach on Peyton as to whether or not he's still elite. With that in mind, if I'm going to take all of those guys over Eli, and I'm iffy on Matty Ice, I think that should say something about whether or not he's elite.

The playoff game and super bowl argument is compelling, but by that same token LeBron James isn't elite. He doesn't perform in the playoffs, but he's near the top in the regular season. Eli, with the exception of 2011, has never been a strong regular season performer but he does step it up a notch in the playoffs. I know it's a different sport, but it's the same basic argument.

I know that Eli had one really good season and just won his second super bowl, but let's see how well he does these next few years before we call him elite.

---------- Post added April-10th-2012 at 10:19 PM ----------

Again. A quote from your own dirty Giants player. "He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.' (Defensive back Tyler) Sash did a great job hitting him early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up."

The Giants were talking about his concussion, targeted him, were happy he was "dazed", and felt it made a difference in the game. What more do you need? Signed notarized copies of more statements in duplicate?

At this point you're just stonewalling, trying to deny what the dirty Giants actually did.

I wouldn't have said it like that. But I'd agree with this.

And was there any talk of giving Eli a brain injury? Or bragging or carrying it out?

Lol, take a generic "take him out of the game" quote, and try to insinuate that's any way comparable to dirty Giants / Gregg Williams type targeting. If you really believe the Rogers quote is bad, you should be EMBARRASSED to be a Giants fan. But you're just trying to insinuate a quote is as bad as what a Giants player actually said, aren't you?

I'll disagree with this slightly. They're both saying that we need to take him out of the game. The only reason I see them differently is that one has to do with a very serious debilitating injury (Just ask the Mackey family) and one doesn't deal with anything as serious.

I agree with you, but I don't think it's completely fair to say that the 49ers didn't do anything wrong by saying "we should take him out of the game." Of course, if this is the nature of the league I'm slightly more ok with that, but it still irritates me.

Let's see punishments handed out evenly in the NFL, and the dirty Giants players penalized like the Saints are. For the same talk and actions.

edit: The other talk the thread's swung to, is actually pretty good, and maybe it should be split off? I'm just taking about the hypocrisy on part of the NFL and others. How the Giants aren't punished for what Gregg Williams was banned indefinitely for.

"We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill (his) head. We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways."

"He's had a lot of concussions. We were just like, 'We got to put a hit on that guy.'

"We need to find out in the first two series of the game, the little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion. We need to ******' put a lick on him."

One team got penalized for these remarks. One didn't.

The Saints, and more specifically Gregg Williams, were doing this for years on a much larger more institutionalized scale. I'm certainly not condoning talk of giving someone a concussion, but I'm not gonna claim they're the same crime and should be handled the same way.