Why the Sky Isn't Falling regarding the Rams deal

[RawBBQSauce]

if we're picking in the top 8 three years from now then something went horribly wrong

Agreed. I think the perennial struggles are making people forget about the positive direction this franchise is moving toward. We're just so used to getting a #8 to #16 pick lol

[Pskins]

We could have had Andy Dalton last year without giving up the house and the kids in the process.

Andy Dalton screamed franchise QB and his combine was good. We had the 9th pick and we

let him walk. Kerrigan is a nice pickup but a QB like that CANNOT slip through your fingers.

I'm sorry, but this trade is really depressing me. I had hoped Mikey S and Bruce A had better sense

than this. What they did is on the same level as Jim Zorn tying himself to Jason Campbell. Nothing I've

seen on RG3 tells me that he is nothing more than a flash in the pan. As my sig says, an uberBUST in

the making

[RawBBQSauce]

\As my sig says, an uberBUST in

the making

Trent Richardson. Yeah I agree - "uberBUST." But Grifin man? Really? What do you see in his game that says "uberBUST"? Every time I watched him play I was literally in awe. The sky is the limit for this guy, in my honest opinion.

[Skinsfan4life83]

:troll:

We could have had Andy Dalton last year without giving up the house and the kids in the process.

Andy Dalton screamed franchise QB and his combine was good. We had the 9th pick and we

let him walk. Kerrigan is a nice pickup but a QB like that CANNOT slip through your fingers.

I'm sorry, but this trade is really depressing me. I had hoped Mikey S and Bruce A had better sense

than this. What they did is on the same level as Jim Zorn tying himself to Jason Campbell. Nothing I've

seen on RG3 tells me that he is nothing more than a flash in the pan. As my sig says, an uberBUST in

the making

:troll:

This is a ridiculous statement. I think I will trust the experts and not some random internet message board signature.

[33]

This year we have a 1st, 3rd, two 4ths, a 5th, & two 6ths. Taking the first out of the equation here is who we got with the remaining picks if I use last year as a comp.

3rd- Hankerson

4th- Helu

5th- DJ Gomes/ Paul

6th- Royster/ Robinson

I didn't even include the 7th where we got Hurt & Neild. If we do have that type of draft to go along with RGIII then we'll be fine.

All 12 guys from that draft are still on the team. Many of them started at some point last season. It's one reason we could afford to make this deal. But, I'm not sure we should be using that draft as any sort of comparison to future drafts just yet, considering we're generally used to 2-4 draft picks making the squad.

[TheGreek1973]

We could have had Andy Dalton last year without giving up the house and the kids in the process.

Andy Dalton screamed franchise QB and his combine was good. We had the 9th pick and we

let him walk. Kerrigan is a nice pickup but a QB like that CANNOT slip through your fingers.

I'm sorry, but this trade is really depressing me. I had hoped Mikey S and Bruce A had better sense

than this. What they did is on the same level as Jim Zorn tying himself to Jason Campbell. Nothing I've

seen on RG3 tells me that he is nothing more than a flash in the pan. As my sig says, an uberBUST in

the making

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. But you have a bunch of highly experienced people that think otherwise. And JC I am sorry that was a huge reach by Gibbs and at the time I remember the same highly experienced guys were saying so.

Since you gave your opinion please tell us how did you reach it? Is it because of his athletic ability being weak? Is it because he has a weak arm? Is it because he has character issues? We are talking about a guy here that has 4.4 speed, a rocket for an arm with the touch also, smart by all accounts as he is close to getting a law degree, but most of all highly respected by his teammates and coaches, a player that but his school on the map, that gave his school the first Heisman trophy in whatever century, I mean please point one weakness this guy has that can't be worked on so he is going to bust.

[Pskins]

I am not trolling. I am dead serious. You never EVER EVER leverage your future on an unproven commodity.

Even if you have to suffer another 5-11 season this year to find the right fit for your team you do it. I

thought this was a five year plan. Last years draft led me to believe this, but what happened yesterday

erased all of the good will I had for the front office and coaching staff. They gave up SO MUCH for the slim HOPE

that you have a franchise QB. No matter how bad I get flamed for this I believe we have a Herschel Walker type

fail on our hands. The only way I would go crazy for this trade if the quarterbacks name attached to it was Drew Brees

or Aaron Rodgers.

---------- Post added March-11th-2012 at 11:12 AM ----------

Since you gave your opinion please tell us how did you reach it? Is it because of his athletic ability being weak? Is it because he has a weak arm? Is it because he has character issues? We are talking about a guy here that has 4.4 speed, a rocket for an arm with the touch also, smart by all accounts as he is close to getting a law degree, but most of all highly respected by his teammates and coaches, a player that but his school on the map, that gave his school the first Heisman trophy in whatever century, I mean please point one weakness this guy has that can't be worked on so he is going to bust.

On the topic of the Heisman trophy, do the names Desmond Howard and Gino Torretta come to mind?

I am not sold on him at all. It will take alot to change my mind.

---------- Post added March-11th-2012 at 11:13 AM ----------

[Veretax]

Never? So bears trade for Cutler should never have happened? Phillip Rivers should be a Giant not Eli? Michael Vick should never have been in atlanta?

Look there are multiple ways to build teams. Yes Desmond Howard was a bust for us, but he was a super bowl MVP for the Packers after we let him go. Gino Torreta is a bit different I think because of who he played for, when, and what he won while at Miami.

Look yes we have up First Round picks, but seriously how many rookies do we expect to make the team every year there are only what 53 spots or something? That means if you do no horse trading at all you can in theory add up to 7 players drafted each year. so does that mean we'll cut 7 players every year? Heck no. Look, was this trade unprecedented? Somewhat? But if you compare it to the Cutler Trade, where they gave up Kyle Orton, (Then a Starting QB), 2 First Round picks and a 3rd Round Pick. Now the bears got a 5th rounder back.

We have up three firsts because we do not have a player worth trading IMO unless it's Kerrigan or Orakpo. We weren't open to trading them, so we sent a pick. Picks are never a sure fire thing, and we all know that. However, we also have to figure out what happened with Julio Jones and Atlanta Last year. Last year Falcons traded their #27th overall first round pick to move to #6, and also traded that #2 and #4, this years #1 and #4 To put this into comparison assuming a pick the following year is worth one round less that's Thats a #1, #2, #2, #4, and a #5. For a Wide Receiver, and to move up way further than we did in terms of absolute positioning.

COmpare this to the 2004 Draft and Eli Manning:

"North Carolina State quarterback Philip Rivers, the No. 5 overall selection in the 2004 draft. In addition, San Diego received the Giants' third-round pick in 2004 (used on kicker Nate Kaeding, No. 65 overall) and Giants' first- and fifth-round picks in 2005 (first-rounder used on Shawne Merriman, No. 12 overall; fifth-rounder traded to Tampa Bay, who traded pick to St. Louis Rams)." that according to this article http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-8-years-later yeah that's bleacher report, I know, but really this boils down to 1 Pick (swap), 3rd Round Pick that year, Next years First and Fifth. So in essence that first round pick in 2013 is essentially a third round pick for us in this deal. so the Giants gave up 1, 2, 3, 6 if you factor things in. We only gave up four picks, but you can argue, if we hadn't given up that additional first we'd have fewer picks this year and likely next.

Plus, to add to that, it is widely reported that at least 4 teams were competing against us. The Browns had a bid in at the last minute, that was close to being equivalent but the deal had already been made. If you found out we didn't trade this and the Browns got it, would you guys be as happy? Probably not. Seattle had reportedly offered three firsts over three years too.

Personally I think given how critical a Franchise QB is in today's league it was a pittance.

So If you feel RG III is the right piece for your Puzzle, and you don't have time to suck this year to try and hope to land someone else, then you make this trade and move on. There are lots of ways to build teams, and we happen to be in a good position to draft some mid rounders, and add some quality free agents in what is arguably a better free agent class.

[Mister Happy]

Mister Happy,

I think Andy Dalton is a better compare. RG3 is a more athletic, stronger arm version of Andy Dalton. RG3 ran a very similar offense against pretty much the same competition.

Steve Young was actually very athletic. He ran a 4.5 in the 40.

He didn't play for the USFL because he couldn't make an NFL team. He played for them because they gave him a 10 year $40 million contract. That was in 1984. He would have easily been the top QB in the NFL draft.

There are some similarities between Andy Dalton and RG3, like accuracy and intelligence, but Steve Young had the same attributes. RG3 is more athletic and a more productive and higher rated college prospect than Dalton. That makes him closer to Steve Young.

---------- Post added March-11th-2012 at 09:10 AM ----------

Jamarcus Russell

Akili Smith

Heath Shuler

David Carr

The list runs long.

Again, you are comparing guys to RG3 that aren't similar. Nobody is trading multiple first rounders to get David Carr, even ignoring hindsight.

#1 draft picks are not equal. Teams that pick #1 usually desperately need a QB, so a lot QBs go #1. That doesn't mean they are all projected the same. Luck and RG3 would easily be the #1 and #2 QBs in any of the drafts you mentioned.

You need to compare guys who project the same as RG3 with similar skill sets. When you do, I think you'll find they all had success in the NFL. For example, Steve Young was Hall of Famer and Super Bowl winner.

[REEGSKINS]

great post. i am very excited as well.

[Skin'Em84]

Maybe it's the constant years of losing in all of our sports, or the terrible luck that we have in DC Sports, but I fear putting all of our eggs in one basket. Leaf, Akili Smith, Russell were sure bets at the time, and they failed horribly. Bobby Hurley, Len Bias, Jay Williams were sure bets as well, but due to conditions outside the game they couldn't contribute at their expected level. Sean Taylor's career was cut short. Ki-Jana Carter suffered a knee injury he never recovered from.

If something like that happens, whether he's a bust, or gets hit by a bus, we can't draft a 1st round QB until 2015 without giving a lot away, again.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Leaf: "holy **** we need a QB, this Leaf guy has so many red flags he looks like a Communist but we need a QB so let's take him and pray, I sure hope this doesn't screw up my Hall of Fame resume!"

Smith "We're the Bengals, who cares if the guy can't read a playbook!"

Russell "HOLY **** LOOK AT HIS ARM STRENGTH, LETS JUST IGNORE THE FACT HE'S FATTER THAN OUR LINEMEN"

A tl;dr version of the pre-draft evaluations of the Chargers, Bengals and Raiders prior to drafting those 3 quarterbacks.

[SilkyDiamonds]

LMAO Imperium

The funnier thing about it is those 3 guys COMBINED may have scored what RGIII did on the Wonderlic

Before anyone goes all fact police on me. I do not know RGIII's Wonderlic, or if he took it. It is predicted that he would score above 36. The combined score of the above named is 63 (63 obviously is not possible). I do however hold suspicion on JaMarcus Russell's 24 & Ryan Leaf's 27

Ryan Leaf 27

Akili Smith 12

JaMarcus Russell 24

[Brotherz]

We could have had Andy Dalton last year without giving up the house and the kids in the process.

Andy Dalton screamed franchise QB and his combine was good. We had the 9th pick and we

let him walk. Kerrigan is a nice pickup but a QB like that CANNOT slip through your fingers.

I'm sorry, but this trade is really depressing me. I had hoped Mikey S and Bruce A had better sense

than this. What they did is on the same level as Jim Zorn tying himself to Jason Campbell. Nothing I've

seen on RG3 tells me that he is nothing more than a flash in the pan. As my sig says, an uberBUST in

the making

Wow man. That really is either bold or just totally delusional. I am not saying it can't happen, it can always happen but the evidence is overwhelming that this kid will be a superstar in this league. Please tell us what you are actually basing this prediction on. I assume it isn't that he hasn't played an NFL down yet, because at one point EVERY draft pick is in that spot.

Character? Its fantastic.

Athletic ability - off the charts

Football IQ - top of the class without question.

Work ethic - poll anyone who has ever had contact with this kid and they will say it is second to none.

What about this kid makes you predict he will be a bust. I can't debate people who say "anything can happen" or "sometimes busts happen and you can't see it". That's true. But to actually predict this kid to be a bust? How?

[Mister Happy]

Leaf' date=' Akili Smith, Russell were sure bets at the time, and they failed horribly.[/quote']

First of all, that's not true.

Akili Smith only had one good season in college. Many wondered if he was a fluke. Hardly a "sure bet."

People liked JaMarcus Russell because of his size and arm strength, but plenty of people thought Brady Quinn was the better QB. They thought Russell relied too much on his arm, and made bad decisions. I highly doubt anyone used the terms "work ethic" or intelligence when talking about Russell.

Ryan Leaf's best completion percentage in college was 55 percent. A good completion percentage doesn't prove accuracy (see Jason Campbell), but a bad completion percentage raises a lot of red flags. Is anyone surprised he threw a lot of interceptions? They shouldn't be.

Secondly, none of them have the same characteristics as RG3, so why compare them? Don't look for "sure bets." Look for QBs who project to be similar in the NFL.

The logic of "These highly drafted QBs failed in the NFL, therefore RG3 is a risky pick." doesn't work. One doesn't follow the other.

[KDawg]

I'm gonna be really honest here...

I'm impressed with how well people can come up with bogus excuses for why RG3 is going to bust. It's like reading a fiction novel wading through some of these posts.

First and foremost, I can't disagree with any assessment that no rookie is a sure thing. But I'll take it a step further... No player, veteran or rookie, hall of famer or perennial backups is a guarantee. People that are upset with RG3 seem to be a lot of the same people who wanted Peyton Manning to come in and play here.

Peyton is the GOAT, in my opinion (let's not get into that conversation. I realize there are many valid arguments, I'm just prefacing what I'm about to say with that so some here don't accuse me of being a "hater")

Peyton has played in a specific system with a ton of freedom for his entire NFL career. He's now got neck problems and he's only getting older. Schematically he doesn't fit our system in the least, although he is one of the best playaction guys in the game he can't boot to save his life. So you tailor your system to the GOAT, right? Okay. Then why have we built our team under the Shanahan's to run a certain offensive system, only to pull the rug out? We don't. Manning would have to run his system, and we'd need to overhaul the roster for a 2-3 year run. Why even have the Shanahan's on the staff? Could Manning succeed here? Depends on your definition, but I'd certainly agree we'd probably be better with him on the roster. But he's not even a sure thing.

So which other options that are available are sure things? Which rookies in the future do you feel fit what the Redskin do better than Robert Griffin III or Andrew Luck? In looking at future prospects, I just don't see anyone who fits the mold of what we need. Landry Jones doesn't. Matt Barkley doesn't.

Our offense is a high to low read boot action west coast offense. Robert Griffin III had the best deep ball completion percentage in the nation last season. It was in the 70% range. He runs a 4.41 40 yard dash. He's explosive from an athletic standpoint. He's extremely intelligent. And he doesn't have a penchant for running when he doesn't have to, but will in fact take off if necessary. He adds a completely new dimension to our offense. Now on those stretch boot passes, defenses can't just flood the passing lanes, they have to cut Griffin off as well. And with Griff's speed, even if they manage to cut him off he may still be able to get the edge. He's a weapon, and a total fit.

Could he bust out? Sure. Is it risky to trade away two first rounders and a second? Absolutely. But we have entire draft classes in EVERY draft except for one pick. First rounders are no guarantee, so not having a first rounder will make for some boring big name draft talk around here, for sure. We won't be talking about those top prospects much, because we won't be in the running for them. But there is PLENTY of talent to be had in the later rounds, and our current scouting department has proven that they know how to go out and get Shanahan guys that fit our scheme and character needs.

Too many here completely neglect schematic effect. People like to throw around the term "That's a Vinny move" around here. Throwing away schematic fit just to sign a big name that people like is a Vinny move. Moving up in the draft to grab a guy that fits the EXACT mold of quarterback we need to run OUR offense is NOT a Vinny move. He didn't care about scheme. He cared about the "cannonball splash" effect. He got a ton of people interested in DC... And then we fizzled.

This was a well calculated intelligent move. Yes, we gave up quite a bit, but to paraphrase Bruce Allen, "you probably paid more for your house than you intended".

He very well could bust out. But so could anyone else we draft/sign. The difference is three draft choices versus one (or none if a FA signs). But can you honestly say that this isn't worth the risk when considering how well he fits? I don't get how anyone could. He FITS. The rest is up to him and the coaching staff.

[bird_1972]

Akili Smith only had one good season in college. Many wondered if he was a fluke.

This is something that concerns me about RG3.

With Luck, draftniks have been talking about him for several years now and he has a body of work that spans several years (suggesting consistent high-level of play).

With RG3, I only recall him appearing on the radar this year. I'm not sure if he was considered an elite talent/QB prospect before he burst onto the scene and I'm concerned that he too may be a flash in the pan. Only reason I'm concerned about him and what we gave up for him.

[TheGreek1973]

I am not trolling. I am dead serious. You never EVER EVER leverage your future on an unproven commodity.

Even if you have to suffer another 5-11 season this year to find the right fit for your team you do it. I

thought this was a five year plan. Last years draft led me to believe this, but what happened yesterday

erased all of the good will I had for the front office and coaching staff. They gave up SO MUCH for the slim HOPE

that you have a franchise QB. No matter how bad I get flamed for this I believe we have a Herschel Walker type

fail on our hands. The only way I would go crazy for this trade if the quarterbacks name attached to it was Drew Brees

or Aaron Rodgers.

---------- Post added March-11th-2012 at 11:12 AM ----------

On the topic of the Heisman trophy, do the names Desmond Howard and Gino Torretta come to mind?

I am not sold on him at all. It will take alot to change my mind.

---------- Post added March-11th-2012 at 11:13 AM ----------

Well I am not going to be posting the obvious to change your mind, there are so many posts already. but in order to have a discussion you do need to post why you are so against this guy....

[2cents]

Well I am not going to be posting the obvious to change your mind, there are so many posts already. but in order to have a discussion you do need to post why you are so against this guy....

And hopefully come up w something better than Gino Terreta won the Heisman and sucked so RGIII will too......wow.

[chipwhich]

I'm impressed with how well people can come up with bogus excuses for why RG3 is going to bust. It's like reading a fiction novel wading through some of these posts.

I never said he would be a bust, just saying beware.

I am impressed with how well people can forget we do this dance EVERY offseason except last year. We make a move like Haynesworth, or we sign every free agent available. The board blows up and pronounces we won the lottery, only to see fail on the field.

We didn't trade for the rights to pick a franchise qb. We traded for the rights to pick a qb, who we hope has the character and medal to be our franchise qb.

[KDawg]

I never said he would be a bust, just saying beware.

I am impressed with how well people can forget we do this dance EVERY offseason except last year. We make a move like Haynesworth, or we sign every free agent available. The board blows up and pronounces we won the lottery, only to see fail on the field.

We didn't trade for the rights to pick a franchise qb. We traded for the rights to pick a qb, who we hope has the character and medal to be our franchise qb.

I wasn't referring to you, although I think your memory is doing you a disservice in regards to Shuler.

To say this is the same type of move as the moves of the past, though, is extremely close minded. I tried to explain that in the post you just quoted, but either you stopped just after the part you quoted, or you didn't care to read it, or listen to it. Drafting a guy who is a schematic fit is not the same as the same ol', same ol' MO. Haynesworth was a fat, lazy slob. And when we switched to the 3-4 became utterly useless.

This isn't the same as signing Jeff George, Bruce Smith or Deion Sanders. If you don't want to see that, it's on you, but you're missing the point.

[Mister Happy]

This is something that concerns me about RG3.

With Luck, draftniks have been talking about him for several years now and he has a body of work that spans several years (suggesting consistent high-level of play).

With RG3, I only recall him appearing on the radar this year. I'm not sure if he was considered an elite talent/QB prospect before he burst onto the scene and I'm concerned that he too may be a flash in the pan. Only reason I'm concerned about him and what we gave up for him.

RG3 had roughly the same production as Andrew Luck over each of his 3 healthy years. I think the reason you knew Luck and not RG3 is that Stanford was good, and Baylor wasn't.

[chipwhich]

If you don't want to see that, it's on you, but you're missing the point.

KDawg, I am not disagreeing with you.

All I am saying is there is no sure thing. RG3 looks promising.

Suddenly posters are saying Shuler, Leaf, etc were dumb because of a wonderlic score. RG3 is not dumb, yet nobody knows his wonderlic score.

SHuler, leaf, etc couldn't read a playbook. RG3 can, however he hasn't even attended a mini camp.

The posting is such nonsense.

I agree with your posts fully. I disagree with all the other nonsense. Who knows RG3 could score a 5 on his wonderlic, not be able to read a playbook, and roll into camp in his new ferrari like michael westbrook. Who knows what we get.

[bird_1972]

RG3 had roughly the same production as Andrew Luck over each of his 3 healthy years. I think the reason you knew Luck and not RG3 is that Stanford was good, and Baylor wasn't.

Is that because Luck was surrounded by more talent or that he made his team better?

I was always under the impression that Luck did much with very little. If that's the case, then it makes me a little worried about RG3. Wright was a pretty good WR.

[RedskinsSuperBowl21]

Three first rounders and a second rounder.

That's really two firsts and a second because we upgraded with one of those first rounders.....

.....I can't argue that we gave up a lot. We certainly did. And I understand why some are apprehensive. What if RG3/Luck bust out of the league? We gave up a lot for nothing. But it was time this franchise grew some balls and took a risk. And for that, whether Shanahan and Allen are successful or not, I thank them. We broke the trend of being safe and toiling in mediocrity.

My thought is that by the time we decided the QB is a bust (if he is a bust) 3-4 years will have passed. Therefore we would have a first round pick again. Draft for depth and gems and get a young talented free agent here and there. Completely worth it IMO