Homer: Please just say no to Peyton Manning

[Phat Hog]

If he is healthy and he is cheap, I would take him. Got to admit, that NFL spot was depressing

[PortisBetts]

I totally agree Murf. I am sick of the old retreads coming here. I dont want to see a qb who is on the downside of his career and 1 good hit away from being done as opposed to sacrificing a few picks and watching a quarterback grow in our system. I would kill to see that just once in my lifetime. Its been 20 years of crap at QB and this is the first time i see a qb, Griffin, that we can actually aquire and i dont think will be a bust. (also thought Rogers would be good but we went with the wrong damn one as usual)

[ExoDus84]

He's a significant upgrade at anything we've had in decades. If he's healthy, has his arm strength back, and the will to play, you absolutely bring him in if you can. You also need to draft a young guy, but who's better in the present, and to teach a young kid, than Peyton Manning, one of the best of all time?

[Gregpeck99]

Any Skins fan who thinks RG3 would be better (for the Skins) than a healthy even somewhat limited Peyton is opinionated.

[ddub52]

Because it's worked so well for the franchise thus far?

DeAngelo Hall and Kevin Barnes are two corners that I would like to cut :pfft:

[Charlied72]

Manning IS the answer for us short term i think we need to draft a QB that kid out of Arizona will need sometime and why not learn behind on of the best.

[Skins3000]

Peyton Sodapop Manning cannot come to this team because it will be set back for how many ever years Manning decides to play. Manning is going to want some significant pieces put around this team that the Skins need to just stay away. No more over paid free agents that are in their retirement years gaining an extra 401k from the Skins. Like everyone else is saying I would like for once to have our own franchise qb.

[themurf]

Any Skins fan who thinks RG3 would be better (for the Skins) than a healthy even somewhat limited Peyton is opinionated.

I question any person who would rather have a 36-year-old coming off of three neck surgeries in 19 months over a 22-year-old who could potentially be the face of the franchise for the next decade or so. Maybe being a Redskins fan has conditioned some fans to never think long term, but I'd rather lock the position down for the foreseeable future rather than cross my fingers and hope that Peyton isn't a hit away from retirement.

[Redskins Life]

Who is to say we can't have both? If Manning is a FA, and we are able to pick him up without the loss of any draft picks, it changes nothing in our drafting dynamics. We could still move up for RG3 or trade back for more picks and pick up another, late first round or second round quarterback. We would have the luxury of not having to start our QB rookie and have him learn from one of the best to ever play the game.

Also, this talk of being one hit away from his career being over is true of every player who ever sees time on the field. Sure, the surgeries are of concern, but most players require multiple surgeries of all kinds throughout their careers, even on their necks. At least these are bonafide procedures that can be accurately monitored, tested, and dealt with. Having a player who has suffered three severe concussions would be much more dangerous and problematic, yet it happens all the time throughout the league.

I think a lot of angst is coming from the notion that mistakes made in the past will be remade if any past attempts are retried. It doesn't work that way. Look at Drew Brees coming from San Diego with an injury that most were sure would end his career. The Saints took a chance and it paid dividends. Sure, he was younger than Manning is at the time, but nowhere near as proven and dedicated to his craft (though, Brees has come along way since then). People like to point out the McNabb fiasco, which is fair; however, I truly believe that this regime, unlike the previous one, has learned from its mistakes and will do its due diligence in studying and testing Manning on his recovery before even considering making an offer.

If we can get a healthy Manning and also draft the QB of the future this off season, I don't see how this could be seen as anything short of a win/win for this franchise.

[MartinC]

I question any person who would rather have a 36-year-old coming off of three neck surgeries in 19 months over a 22-year-old who could potentially be the face of the franchise for the next decade or so. Maybe being a Redskins fan has conditioned some fans to never think long term, but I'd rather lock the position down for the foreseeable future rather than cross my fingers and hope that Peyton isn't a hit away from retirement.

Every QB in the NFL is a hit away from retirement, Peyton will be no more at risk than any other QB as per expert opinion from a surgeon who does 100's of these opps which I posted a link to earlier in this thread. The 3 neck surgeries is a myth as well - only the last one was invasive. The question on his health is the nerve regeneration which effects his arm strength - if that checks out in medical checks and a work out then I dont see the medical risk. If it does not check out you dont make the move.

The scheme fit issue does not exist either as we also addressed in this thread. Peyton does not bring mobility to the table that would add to ability in this scheme but Peyton can do everything Rex did last year in our scheme and whole lot more besides.

I do agree with you we need a long term solution as well as the short term fix Peyton is. Thats why my favouring bringing Peyton in (if healthy) is also linked to wanting to draft a rookie high as well as signing Peyton. If its sign Peyton and then use high picks on receivers and lineman to try to win in the next year or two while Peyton is around and dont address QB long term with a high pick then I understand your point and would tend to agree. But if we sign Peyton and draft a QB ideally RGIII but if we cant get him maybe trade down a bit and draft say Tannehill then I cant see what the fuss is.

[Probos]

I'm so sick and tired of these Peyton Manning threads. Holy hell,....

The likelihood that he comes here is so, soooo low. I just don't see it happening. All the scenarios that fans put out there rationalizing him coming here are just wishful thinking. The three neck surgeries,.....no,....I just don't see it.

I think there's a better chance it's a second tier FA like Orton or a kid they draft that comes in and competes with Grossman and Beck.

[KDawg]

The scheme fit issue does not exist either as we also addressed in this thread. Peyton does not bring mobility to the table that would add to ability in this scheme but Peyton can do everything Rex did last year in our scheme and whole lot more besides.

That IS a scheme fit issue, though, Martin. He doesn't give us the extra dimension we need on the bootleg or in the passing game.

I know we simply don't agree on that, but that hasn't been covered in this thread. It's been discussed to no real result.

[MartinC]

That IS a scheme fit issue, though, Martin. He doesn't give us the extra dimension we need on the bootleg or in the passing game.

I know we simply don't agree on that, but that hasn't been covered in this thread. It's been discussed to no real result.

I get that and acknowledged that Peytons lack of mobility makes him suboptimal at least in that respect. But the contention has been made in this thread that Peyton would be a bad move as we would have to potentially adjust our whole scheme to fit him. Thats what I would hope any reasonable person would agree we covered.

[KDawg]

I get that and acknowledged that Peytons lack of mobility makes him suboptimal at least in that respect. But the contention has been made in this thread that Peyton would be a bad move as we would have to potentially adjust our whole scheme to fit him. Thats what I would hope any reasonable person would agree we covered.

We WOULD adjust our scheme, though. We had to adjust it for Rex. And even for Beck we had to adjust it because he can't throw the ball further than ten yards. Beck was able to do the boot stuff, but can't throw. Rex can throw, but is poor at the boot stuff. Manning would be immediately better than either one by about 10,000,000 times. But he'd be the same as Rex as far as scheme goes. And yes, there would be scheme adjustments, if not for anything other than blocking schemes up front. Manning likes to control those. That's a MAJOR learning curve... For our OL, for Kyle, etc.

Griffin fits everything this offense is designed to do, better than Peyton does. Whether he turns out or not is an entirely different topic. But as far as fit goes, there isn't a better fit that's out there than Robert Griffin III.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I question any person who would rather have a 36-year-old coming off of three neck surgeries in 19 months over a 22-year-old who could potentially be the face of the franchise for the next decade or so. Maybe being a Redskins fan has conditioned some fans to never think long term, but I'd rather lock the position down for the foreseeable future rather than cross my fingers and hope that Peyton isn't a hit away from retirement.

I agree with you the skins should try to and trade up and get RG3. However, I do not think the Skins have the fire power to compete with Cleveland. So by signing Peyton possibly moving back in the draft selecting a Ryan Tannehill or a Nick Foles makes more sense in my opinion.

[MartinC]

We WOULD adjust our scheme, though. We had to adjust it for Rex. And even for Beck we had to adjust it because he can't throw the ball further than ten yards. Beck was able to do the boot stuff, but can't throw. Rex can throw, but is poor at the boot stuff. Manning would be immediately better than either one by about 10,000,000 times. But he'd be the same as Rex as far as scheme goes. And yes, there would be scheme adjustments, if not for anything other than blocking schemes up front. Manning likes to control those. That's a MAJOR learning curve... For our OL, for Kyle, etc.

But you have just said above that Manning would be the same as Rex as far as the scheme fit goes - and I agree with that. So given we already adjusted the scheme and blocking to work with Rex what are you thinking we would need to further adjust for Peyton? As you say Peyton even at 75% would be worlds better as a passer than Rex was/is.

This is why I just dont see scheme fit as an issue - we had a productive passing game with pocket passer Rex we would be even more productive with the much superior pocket passer Peyton and probably about 15 INTS lower a year as well.

Griffin fits everything this offense is designed to do, better than Peyton does. Whether he turns out or not is an entirely different topic. But as far as fit goes, there isn't a better fit that's out there than Robert Griffin III.

I'm not arguing with this, I agree. We might not get Griffin of course which would make it all a moot point .......my position is we need to sign a veteran who is an upgrade on Rex ahead of the draft and draft a top rookie - its not either or for me. We need to cover short term and long term.

[Hitman21ST]

...my position is we need to sign a veteran who is an upgrade...

Singled out on purpose; how weird does it feel to say that and know that we'll do it the right way?

[KDawg]

But you have just said above that Manning would be the same as Rex as far as the scheme fit goes - and I agree with that. So given we already adjusted the scheme and blocking to work with Rex what are you thinking we would need to further adjust for Peyton? As you say Peyton even at 75% would be worlds better as a passer than Rex was/is.

This is why I just dont see scheme fit as an issue - we had a productive passing game with pocket passer Rex we would be even more productive with the much superior pocket passer Peyton and probably about 15 INTS lower a year as well.

We were far from a productive passing game. We had one touchdown that was run in that came from a pass from our quarterback. That's not production. We had a ton of problems in the passing game, I don't view what we did as productive. I view it as destructive. But yes, Manning would be better at it. But again, Manning makes line adjustments on his own. That's an adjustment for our team to make. The audibles, operating from the LOS... Those are things Manning loves to do, and it remains to be seen that he would be able to operate from a huddle type offense as efficiently. A lot of that stuff has to do with rhythm, and Manning establishes that from a constant tempo. There's a lot more to signing Manning than just his ability. It changes the way you play.

I'm not arguing with this, I agree. We might not get Griffin of course which would make it all a moot point .......my position is we need to sign a veteran who is an upgrade on Rex ahead of the draft and draft a top rookie - its not either or for me. We need to cover short term and long term.

We sign Manning and then draft Griffin and I can tell you that Peyton is not going to be a happy camper. He wants out of Indy because of Luck. I'm not sure if that's what you're suggesting, but it sounds like it.

[KCClybun]

I question any person who would rather have a 36-year-old coming off of three neck surgeries in 19 months over a 22-year-old who could potentially be the face of the franchise for the next decade or so. Maybe being a Redskins fan has conditioned some fans to never think long term, but I'd rather lock the position down for the foreseeable future rather than cross my fingers and hope that Peyton isn't a hit away from retirement.

I say it all the time; the greatest lie the Devil ever told was convincing the world he didn't exist, and the greatest lie Vinny Cerrato ever told was convincing fans that this team was always one player away from competing.

How some of the same people who claim our talent level is so weak that we simply CAN'T sustain having a rookie quarterback and we can't have a rookie start week 1 because they'd get killed behind our horrible offensive line with our terrible wide receivers and our overrated defense...but oh, if Peyton Manning gets signed, even if he's only 80% he'll be able to elevate us over all this **** and we have a great chance of winning a Super Bowl in the next three or four years, would be so funny and ironic if it wasn't so sad that these people were falling for the same ****ing trick, again.

[MartinC]

But again, Manning makes line adjustments on his own. That's an adjustment for our team to make. The audibles, operating from the LOS... Those are things Manning loves to do, and it remains to be seen that he would be able to operate from a huddle type offense as efficiently. A lot of that stuff has to do with rhythm, and Manning establishes that from a constant tempo. There's a lot more to signing Manning than just his ability. It changes the way you play.

Having Manning would change the way we play on offense but in a positive way and I dont think the line calls and audibles would be a major adjustment or problem for either the coaches or the supporting cast. It would be an adjustment though so its fair you point that out.

We sign Manning and then draft Griffin and I can tell you that Peyton is not going to be a happy camper. He wants out of Indy because of Luck. I'm not sure if that's what you're suggesting, but it sounds like it.

I am suggesting that but I dont think it will happen for a couple of reasons. Firstly I think if we sign Manning its more likely we trade down a bit if we can and sign Tannehill to develop behind Manning and secondly I actually dont think Manning will come here unless he is short of options. My view is Manning will want to sign with a team which is much more clearly a contender - he will want another ring before he retires.

[TotalRecall]

I question any person who would rather have a 36-year-old coming off of three neck surgeries in 19 months over a 22-year-old who could potentially be the face of the franchise for the next decade or so. Maybe being a Redskins fan has conditioned some fans to never think long term, but I'd rather lock the position down for the foreseeable future rather than cross my fingers and hope that Peyton isn't a hit away from retirement.

Thanks, Heath Shuler.

[themurf]

Who is to say we can't have both? If Manning is a FA, and we are able to pick him up without the loss of any draft picks, it changes nothing in our drafting dynamics. We could still move up for RG3 or trade back for more picks and pick up another, late first round or second round quarterback. We would have the luxury of not having to start our QB rookie and have him learn from one of the best to ever play the game.

Do people not realize that with the new collective bargaining agreement, rookies hit free agency earlier now? So let's talk about what happens if the Redskins did actually sign Peyton Manning and draft a rookie to sit around a watch him play. For starters, Manning is going to want to stick around (I'm guessing) for at least three years. And then, in all likelihood, you're signing a guy like Robert Griffin III or Ryan Tannehill for four years. Let's say, by some miracle, Manning did remain healthy and played all three years. Then you're looking at that same rookie quarterback going into the final year of his rookie deal without having ever taken an actual snap, meaning you're still not sure he's actually any good and you're going to have to break the bank to keep him around. So I ask again, why is bringing Manning in a good idea?

I say it all the time; the greatest lie the Devil ever told was convincing the world he didn't exist, and the greatest lie Vinny Cerrato ever told was convincing fans that this team was always one player away from competing.

How some of the same people who claim our talent level is so weak that we simply CAN'T sustain having a rookie quarterback and we can't have a rookie start week 1 because they'd get killed behind our horrible offensive line with our terrible wide receivers and our overrated defense...but oh, if Peyton Manning gets signed, even if he's only 80% he'll be able to elevate us over all this **** and we have a great chance of winning a Super Bowl in the next three or four years, would be so funny and ironic if it wasn't so sad that these people were falling for the same ****ing trick, again.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Thank you for being one of the few -- a Redskins fan who is actually capable of rational thought.

Thanks, Heath Shuler.

Yes, you should totally hide under your bed and never attempt to draft another rookie quarterback because one time, back in 1994, the Redskins made a bad decision and drafted the wrong guy. If the team stopped signing free agents every time that didn't work out, then there would be 12 players on the roster -- last year's draft class.

[MattFancy]

I couldn't agree more with this post. Thank you for being one of the few -- a Redskins fan who is actually capable of rational thought.

Murf, I like reading your stuff, always well thought out. But to say we're not rational Skins fans because we have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean we're not rational. You have a perfectly good reason for wanting to go after Griffin, I respect that and would be fine with Griffin. However, I also wouldn't have a problem with Manning if we also drafted a QB to study under him. That doesn't mean I'm not a rational fan, that just means I see things differently.

[TotalRecall]

Do people not realize that with the new collective bargaining agreement, rookies hit free agency earlier now? So let's talk about what happens if the Redskins did actually sign Peyton Manning and draft a rookie to sit around a watch him play. For starters, Manning is going to want to stick around (I'm guessing) for at least three years. And then, in all likelihood, you're signing a guy like Robert Griffin III or Ryan Tannehill for four years.

It's a 4-year deal, but the team has an optional 5th year. I don't advocate getting either RG3 or Tannehill. IMO, there are a better crop of 1st rounders in 2013. Obtaining Manning would allow us to fill holes in other areas via the draft. I think a RG3 pick would take the draft away for the next 2 drafts. And if RG3 isn't the guy who we hoped would be, then we lose a lot of draft picks and we are setback for like 4 years.

Manning will cost us no draft picks or players. We have a better chance at the playoffs with Manning than RG3. And even if Manning should bust (which is unlikely if he can still throw hard), there are at least 3 franchise QBs in next year's draft.

[themurf]

Murf, I like reading your stuff, always well thought out. But to say we're not rational Skins fans because we have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean we're not rational. You have a perfectly good reason for wanting to go after Griffin, I respect that and would be fine with Griffin. However, I also wouldn't have a problem with Manning if we also drafted a QB to study under him. That doesn't mean I'm not a rational fan, that just means I see things differently.

I'm cutting and posting from my last post to make sure you see this and address it:

Do people not realize that with the new collective bargaining agreement, rookies hit free agency earlier now? So let's talk about what happens if the Redskins did actually sign Peyton Manning and draft a rookie to sit around a watch him play. For starters, Manning is going to want to stick around (I'm guessing) for at least three years. And then, in all likelihood, you're signing a guy like Robert Griffin III or Ryan Tannehill for four years. Let's say, by some miracle, Manning did remain healthy and played all three years. Then you're looking at that same rookie quarterback going into the final year of his rookie deal without having ever taken an actual snap, meaning you're still not sure he's actually any good and you're going to have to break the bank to keep him around. So I ask again, why is bringing Manning in a good idea?

---------- Post added February-14th-2012 at 08:47 AM ----------

And even if Manning should bust (which is unlikely if he can still throw hard), there are at least 3 franchise QBs in next year's draft.

But what if the Redskins are in the same situation again next year and can't get any of your three supposed franchise quarterbacks without trading up? And what if they did trade up and the guy didn't work out? Then what?

Again, it kills me that the same fans who want to throw money at every aging superstar the NFL has ever known are terrified of drafting and developing their own future stars because there's a chance with every rookie player in the history of football that "he might not work out." Maybe I'm just crazy for wanting the Redskins to find their own Peyton Manning (i.e. - face of the franchise) rather than waiting 15 years and signing an over-the-hill Robert Griffin III or Ryan Tannehill in 2027.