Senior Bowl: North/South Talent vs. North/South Coaching

[RWJ]

I pose this question looking for feedback.

Who's talent before/after the Senior Bowl started/finished better talent wise?

Who's talent before/after the Senior Bowl started/finished better coaching wise?

Curious to hear thoughts concerning both.

[KCClybun]

No.

Just no.

First, the game isn't over yet.

Second, this is the Senior Bowl. You've got a week to coach a bunch of players who have never seen the concepts you're throwing at before. This is not the place to evaluate how well our coaches are doing, though for what it's worth, there were reports out of Mobile that were very complimentary to the way our coaching staff operated and worked from scouts and other teams.

So that's that.

[RWJ]

No.

Just no.

First, the game isn't over yet.

Second, this is the Senior Bowl. You've got a week to coach a bunch of players who have never seen the concepts you're throwing at before. This is not the place to evaluate how well our coaches are doing, though for what it's worth, there were reports out of Mobile that were very complimentary to the way our coaching staff operated and worked from scouts and other teams.

So that's that.

To be fair, I put it out there. I would think the question has gone through alot of everyone's mind. Yes, I think it's a fair question.

[Hooper]

Sweet Jesus. Make it stop. Has anyone on this board ever cared about the coaching in the senior bowl before?

[RWJ]

Sweet Jesus. Make it stop. Has anyone on this board ever cared about the coaching in the senior bowl before?

Hoop and all ESer's it's JUST a SIMPLE question. Please don't take hostility against me. I'm just curious as to eveyone's thoughts. It very well could be that the North has superior DF play to the South's OF play. Observations all? Come on! Lighten up. I'm not bashing our coaching staff. I love them. I just want YOUR thoughts.

[Hooper]

No hostility, RWJ. I just think you can't take much of anything from these games.

[RWJ]

No hostility, RWJ. I just think you can't take much of anything from these games.

All due respect to you, bro. I just wanted to ask the question to all those on the Stadium forum and get their thoughts. I play observer anymore. I like to see what people have to say and take it all in for future wisdom. I BELIEVE this is a good question to gain wisdom from. JMO.

[lazarus0280]

sorry for the dp

[lazarus0280]

I actually enjoyed the coverage by the NFL network. I thought our coaching staff was all around louder and more excited and hands on then my impressions from Vikings staff. I could see a marked improvement with the qb's from day one til last day of practice. I didn't catch the game, but I felt our players were prepared anyway. If not for the game, they got some good fundamentals. Our coaches took alot of players and projected them in different positions. Which can help the different scouts immensely. Where did you hear that other scouts etc were happy with way our team conducted things? Love to read that.

Either way, this gives our team a huge advantage when it comes to Draft day.... we have tons more hours with half of the top sr's come out of college then the other teams.

[Conn]

sorry for the dp

Way too much info, man.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

All due respect to you, bro. I just wanted to ask the question to all those on the Stadium forum and get their thoughts. I play observer anymore. I like to see what people have to say and take it all in for future wisdom. I BELIEVE this is a good question to gain wisdom from. JMO.

I personally think trying to gain anything of value coaching-wise from the Senior Bowl is an exercise in futility.

That being said, what things of value did you feel you gained in terms of how the coaching staffs performed before/after/during/whatever?

[redskindan07]

I am waiting for one of those "We were out coached today" threads...

[SkinsHokieFan]

4 practices and a walk through and we are supposed to judge the coaching staff?

I think Haslett should have called more blitzes.

Oh wait, you mean the rules prevent blitzing?

[RWJ]

Put me on the pedestal, will you? You only stated coaching, Cali. It takes two. Does the South have better talent then the North? Who knows. Does the South have better coaching than the North? Who knows, once again. This I will say, for the MOST PART the North played better than the South, OVERALL. I saw equal talent on both sides.

[Jimbo]

To be fair, I put it out there. I would think the question has gone through alot of everyone's mind. Yes, I think it's a fair question.

I agree it's a fair question. We all were curious to see how the Skins' coaching staff would do with these college players. I think we were all hoping the talent-laden South would kick the North's butt and make us all feel better about our coaching staff. Still, given it's only a week and the rules limit the schemes, it's really about the players making plays. I would have preferred some more imaginative play-calling from Kyle and I DEFINITLEY would liked to have seen the South QB's light it up. The fact is, even though Kyle says his system is easy to learn, I don't necessarily think that's true and I think it takes a special kind of player to excel in it. Rex showed flashes but he simply turned the ball over too much. Matt Schaub, on the other hand, IS a special (or at least special enough) kind of QB. Having Andre Johnson helps but Schaub makes good decisions AND good throws.

My gut feeling is the Skins QB of the future is definitley NOT on this year's South squad. I think the coaching was able to point that out. That may be a GOOD thing.

[Jumbo]

I understand "frustration with the board" and getting after an OP about as well as any individual could hope to , but I'm about ready to take RWJ into protective custody.

I read the OP with a bit of a "Really?" reaction too, but obviously from how he followed up, he's not trying to be any kind of dipstick and is just wondering how people saw the event from that angle, so maybe we should take it a little easy on him guys. :pfft:

[rdavis2005]

I sure hope we don't draft Weeden. Especially in the second or third rd.

[RWJ]

I agree it's a fair question. We all were curious to see how the Skins' coaching staff would do with these college players. I think we were all hoping the talent-laden South would kick the North's butt and make us all feel better about our coaching staff. Still, given it's only a week and the rules limit the schemes, it's really about the players making plays. I would have preferred some more imaginative play-calling from Kyle and I DEFINITLEY would liked to have seen the South QB's light it up. The fact is, even though Kyle says his system is easy to learn, I don't necessarily think that's true and I think it takes a special kind of player to excel in it. Rex showed flashes but he simply turned the ball over too much. Matt Schaub, on the other hand, IS a special (or at least special enough) kind of QB. Having Andre Johnson helps but Schaub makes good decisions AND good throws.

My gut feeling is the Skins QB of the future is definitley NOT on this year's South squad. I think the coaching was able to point that out. That may be a GOOD thing.

I agree. I think the next QB of the Skins will be RGIII.

---------- Post added January-29th-2012 at 01:32 AM ----------

Thanks, Jumbo. I just was curious as to how others felt.

[LetThePointsSoar]

Way too much info, man.

I spilled my drink laughing at this one....

Does anyone know if there will be a replay for those of us who didn't catch it live?

[Laxpunk2006]

I would have preferred some more imaginative play-calling from Kyle and I DEFINITLEY would liked to have seen the South QB's light it up. The fact is, even though Kyle says his system is easy to learn, I don't necessarily think that's true and I think it takes a special kind of player to excel in it. Rex showed flashes but he simply turned the ball over too much. Matt Schaub, on the other hand, IS a special (or at least special enough) kind of QB. Having Andre Johnson helps but Schaub makes good decisions AND good throws.

The Senior Bowl isn't a place you use "imaginatve play-calling." It's intentionally vanilla so that you can evaluate theplayer and not the scheme. I don't believe this teaches us anything regarding how easy or difficult it is to learn Kyle's offensive system because we weren't using it. These games are to put players in positions to compete with each other. Scheme doesnt even come into play.

[KCClybun]

I agree it's a fair question. We all were curious to see how the Skins' coaching staff would do with these college players. I think we were all hoping the talent-laden South would kick the North's butt and make us all feel better about our coaching staff. Still, given it's only a week and the rules limit the schemes, it's really about the players making plays. I would have preferred some more imaginative play-calling from Kyle and I DEFINITLEY would liked to have seen the South QB's light it up. The fact is, even though Kyle says his system is easy to learn, I don't necessarily think that's true and I think it takes a special kind of player to excel in it. Rex showed flashes but he simply turned the ball over too much. Matt Schaub, on the other hand, IS a special (or at least special enough) kind of QB. Having Andre Johnson helps but Schaub makes good decisions AND good throws.

My gut feeling is the Skins QB of the future is definitley NOT on this year's South squad. I think the coaching was able to point that out. That may be a GOOD thing.

1.) Here's the full text of what Kyle Shanahan said.

When talking about his own system, Kyle Shanahan told the media, "I don't think that it's a system that takes a long time to learn. You're going to run what [the quarterback] is good at."

He didn't claim it was easy to learn, he said he didn't think the system takes a long time to learn, and that you're going to adjust your system to what a quarterback is good at running while you're teaching it to them. You know. What every other team does.

2.) Even if he DID say that, it's still ****ing ridiculous to think you can pump any quarterback full of information in a week and say "NOW YOUR KNOW EVERYTHING!". With a week of practice, all you can do is teach them the basics. Nick Foles and Brandon Weeden had never even played in a scheme similar to this one. So all you can do is teach them the basics of the West Coast Offense, some simple reads, and mostly coach them up on technique. Let's see you teach a couple guys who have never been in anything remotely similar to your system the whole thing in a couple weeks.

3.) The Senior Bowl isn't the place for imaginative play-calling.

The Senior Bowl is more about evaluating than it is about winning the game. In fact, the one time Kyle DID get imaginative and tried to run that little stack play on Weeden's second INT, the South team got called for an illegal motion, since you can't send receivers in motion. Keeping things vanilla makes the game easier to evaluate, and not doing dumb **** makes sure all this great young prospects don't wind up getting injured in a friggin' All-Star game.

4.) This is why judging the coaching staff based on the Senior Bowl is ****ing stupid. They're, maybe, at best, running like, 5% of our playbook. Hell, on defense, we were running a 4-3 and not a 3-4 defense. So how the hell do you judge OUR coaching staff and schemes when you don't even have players running a majority of what we run?

[isle-hawg]

The South was favored to win due to their perceived superior talent level over the North. It would of been really nice to see the South light it up. I can't imagine that I and perhaps the OP are the only ones here wondering was it the players, or coach/playcalling that lead the favored team to lose handily?

I'm not jumping off a bridge like the day we traded away picks for McNabb - but yesterday was slightly disappointing to me.

[KCClybun]

The South was favored to win due to their perceived superior talent level over the North. It would of been really nice to see the South light it up. I can't imagine that I and perhaps the OP are the only ones here wondering was it the players, or coach/playcalling that lead the favored team to lose handily?

I'm not jumping off a bridge like the day we traded away picks for McNabb - but yesterday was slightly disappointing to me.

They had a week to coach players who had never worked in their system!

Seriously, has anyone ever watched the Senior Bowl before? Last year the North was though to have more talent than the South. The North lost 10-24.

Marvin Lewis led the Bengals to the playoffs. He coached the North.

Chan Gailey's Bills went 6-10. He coached the South.

Be disappointed all you want, you're just talking yourself into something stupid.

[isle-hawg]

They had a week to coach players who had never worked in their system!

Seriously, has anyone ever watched the Senior Bowl before? Last year the North was though to have more talent than the South. The North lost 10-24.

Marvin Lewis led the Bengals to the playoffs. He coached the North.

Chan Gailey's Bills went 6-10. He coached the South.

Be disappointed all you want, you're just talking yourself into something stupid.

I don't put much stock into the game itself, however this was the 1st time I can remember our team's coaching staff coaching in this game which made it of some interest to me. I was rooting for them (understanding this is an EXHIBITION game) and was still disappointed with the lack of offense and points with what most experts considered the better talent.

[tiger187126]

I don't put much stock into the game itself, however this was the 1st time I can remember our team's coaching staff coaching in this game which made it of some interest to me. I was rooting for them (understanding this is an EXHIBITION game) and was still disappointed with the lack of offense and points with what most experts considered the better talent.

i once watched a pop warner football game in which the team with the bigger faster players only won by one touchdown. i was upset because i knew the guy that was coaching the bigger team so i was rooting for him.

even though they won i was like "what the hell man? you can't even cover the spread against these little, slow kids?!"

the story above is completely made up, and yet as equally as ridiculous as your disappointment in our coaching staff for how they performed in a glorified week long football camp.