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I'm suspicious Gronkowski is a juicer.

The Full Monty

By The Full Monty
in Around the NFL

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Destino

Destino

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I'd be getting a second set of doctors looking at my arm if my current doctors told me they were going to perform surgery a 2nd time time to battle an infection that has somehow endured despite strong antibiotics and one surgery specifically aimed at eradicating it.

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The Full Monty

The Full Monty

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Here are your arguments:

Premise 1: He is Strong, and Fast

Premise 2: He had a much stronger 2nd NFL season vs his Rookie Year (SHOCKING!)

Freakishly strong and fast. Strong and fast enough to break the greatest records at his position that have ever stood. Never showed anything close to this level of production in college or as a rookie. That's the difference.

Premise 3: He has broken his forearm.

Premise 4: People who use PED's bodies are weaker when they reject the drugs

Broken forearm twice in a row a year after another season ending injury to his ankle. (which coincidentally ended aforementioned record shattering year.

Conclusion: Given P4, it is safe to assume he has been using performance enhancing drugs.

That is possibly one of the oddest, and most ridiculous arguments I've read on this site.

Come off your high horse. In the OP and other posts since I've stated I'm speculating.

Regardless, I'm not gonna back down thinking there's something suspicious about whether he's clean or not.

Using your "logic" (I use that term loosely), I'm going to say that Louisville's Kevin Ware was DEFINITELY on PEDs when he broke his leg into 2 pieces.

]P1.) Kevin Ware was fast and Athletic

P2.) He had much less playing time in his Freshman Year than his Sophomore Year.

P3.) He broke his leg, much more aggressively than Gronk, with less weight falling on it.

P4.) People who use PED's bodies are weaker when they reject drugs

Conclusion: Kevin Ware is a dirty, dirty cheater who uses PED's. I know this because his body is rejecting the drugs and bones break easier. I now have anecdotal proof to talk trash about a player who must've stole my girlfriend because I have an unnatural hatred of him for no reason.

Kevin Ware never shattered records out of nowhere.

Kevin Ware didn't have 2 seasons ended in a row by injuries.

Kevin Ware is a completely different situation from Gronk.

You had made sense before you brought up Ware.

But now I'm suspicious you're on PEDs because your syllogisms suck now after such a promising start.

---------- Post added April-8th-2013 at 12:07 AM ----------

Yeah, seriously, what a douchebag for breaking his arm and getting a horrible infection. They should just let him die instead. Or just murder him. **** it, it's not like he's an actual human being or anything.

:doh:

Huh? really don't know who this is aimed at.

And I don't buy the original premise. His rookie season was not pedestrian. It wasn't exceptional, but there were many, many flashes. He certainly wasn't an unknown quantity going into year two. The leap wasn't all that huge (talent/performance-wise, anyway; of course it was stat-wise). It's much more likely that he was, you know, a season more experienced in year two. Freak injuries happen. Could he be a juicer? Maybe. There isn't really any evidence, though.

Speculation and suspicion is fair game. I never said I had any proof, I have my opinion based on what I've seen and I'll gladly admit being wrong if the facts all come out and he's totally clean. This infection that's developed in the surgery sounds like a bad deal for him and that's a shame on his doctors for apparently messing up the previous surgery. Doesn't change what I think about him before the infection.

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Rocket442Olds

Rocket442Olds

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Freakishly strong and fast. Strong and fast enough to break the greatest records at his position that have ever stood. Never showed anything close to this level of production in college or as a rookie. That's the difference.

Broken forearm twice in a row a year after another season ending injury to his ankle. (which coincidentally ended aforementioned record shattering year.

Come off your high horse. In the OP and other posts since I've stated I'm speculating.

Regardless, I'm not gonna back down thinking there's something suspicious about whether he's clean or not.

Kevin Ware never shattered records out of nowhere.

Kevin Ware didn't have 2 seasons ended in a row by injuries.

Kevin Ware is a completely different situation from Gronk.

You had made sense before you brought up Ware.

But now I'm suspicious you're on PEDs because your syllogisms suck now after such a promising start.

Speculation and suspicion is fair game. I never said I had any proof, I have my opinion based on what I've seen and I'll gladly admit being wrong if the facts all come out and he's totally clean. This infection that's developed in the surgery sounds like a bad deal for him and that's a shame on his doctors for apparently messing up the previous surgery. Doesn't change what I think about him before the infection.

My Kevin Ware argument was meant to be facetious obviously.

There is also "speculation" that unicorns gallop around your house and peek in your window at night. That doesn't mean it is likely, or that there should be a thread made about it.

What I need you to prove, for this to really hold any weight is that PEDs do weaken bones and hamper recovery time, enough to cause breakage much more often than in non-use cases. Once you have some proof of that, you have 2 somewhat weak arguments that may combine into one that could be speculation, but really isn't anything interesting.

What I think, is you're grasping for straws with the injury stuff, and you just think he's on PEDs because he is a force in the league and big and strong. He was always big and strong, he just wasn't as fast with football knowledge and schemes.

Looking at facts. He was scouted at 6' 6" and 250lbs. He's now 6' 6" and 265, not a big jump considering he now has top-level strength and conditioning coaches in the NFL. He was touted as being a big guy who was strong on his feet, a very powerful blocker and could break tackles. Had issues with his ROUTE RUNNING. This is the type of stuff that holds you back in rookie years.

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The Full Monty

The Full Monty

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What I need you to prove, for this to really hold any weight is that PEDs do weaken bones and hamper recovery time, enough to cause breakage much more often than in non-use cases. Once you have some proof of that, you have 2 somewhat weak arguments that may combine into one that could be speculation, but really isn't anything interesting.

Since the NFL doesn't have a comprehensive testing policy for HGH, and, according to NFL.com, the NFL, NFLPA still far apart on executing HGH testing, I can't quite cite any investigations or revelations in order to "prove" my suspicions right, wrong, likely, unlikely

I think anabolic steroids, the old-school "juice", are a thing of the past, and HGH-type ****tails are the PEDs of choice now. When that testing policy actually gets done, and I doubt it will anytime soon, I suspect some revelations.

What I think, is you're grasping for straws with the injury stuff, and you just think he's on PEDs because he is a force in the league and big and strong. He was always big and strong, he just wasn't as fast with football knowledge and schemes.

Looking at facts. He was scouted at 6' 6" and 250lbs. He's now 6' 6" and 265, not a big jump considering he now has top-level strength and conditioning coaches in the NFL. He was touted as being a big guy who was strong on his feet, a very powerful blocker and could break tackles. Had issues with his ROUTE RUNNING. This is the type of stuff that holds you back in rookie years.

Okay, your position is that it is highly extremely super unlikely that Gronk uses PEDs, and more likely that his unprecedented record shattering 2nd year was him making a mental leap.

And that consecutive years of season-ending broken bones injuries, one of them to the same forearm that was injuried on a FG block and, after recovering and resuming play, was broken on a routine takedown...all this is more likely the result of bad luck. This is your position, is this fair?

People won't admit it, but I'm guessing that most of the accusations of PED use directed at Gronk stem from people just not liking the Pats, and basically just looking for something to nitpick. Kind of silly if you ask me.

That's not me. I have no bone to pick with the Pats as a whole. I'm a big Wilfork fan and I respected Willie McGinest and Ty Law in their heydays. Brady's one of the best. I don't like Belichick at all, but I don't extend that to Gronk or the team.

People are entitled to their opinions on this, and I'm sure I'm in the minority. Totally fine with that. Gronk shattered records after a solid but unspectacular rookie year after being a 2nd round pick out of the PAC-10, but has succumbed to some weird injuries, and no, I'm not counting the new infection as part of my suspicion, that's just a weird development of its own. Our inability to do anything more than speculate is hindered by the non-existent HGH and related PED testing policy.

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DeadExField

DeadExField

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People won't admit it, but I'm guessing that most of the accusations of PED use directed at Gronk stem from people just not liking the Pats, and basically just looking for something to nitpick. Kind of silly if you ask me.

I actually like the Pats, and Gronk as a player. I just believe big guys tend to be fragile at times

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Rocket442Olds

Rocket442Olds

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Since the NFL doesn't have a comprehensive testing policy for HGH, and, according to NFL.com, the NFL, NFLPA still far apart on executing HGH testing, I can't quite cite any investigations or revelations in order to "prove" my suspicions right, wrong, likely, unlikely

I think anabolic steroids, the old-school "juice", are a thing of the past, and HGH-type ****tails are the PEDs of choice now. When that testing policy actually gets done, and I doubt it will anytime soon, I suspect some revelations.

Okay, your position is that it is highly extremely super unlikely that Gronk uses PEDs, and more likely that his unprecedented record shattering 2nd year was him making a mental leap.

And that consecutive years of season-ending broken bones injuries, one of them to the same forearm that was injuried on a FG block and, after recovering and resuming play, was broken on a routine takedown...all this is more likely the result of bad luck. This is your position, is this fair?

My position is not that it is highly extremely super unlikely. It is simply that I don't see nearly enough evidence to call the guy out for PEDs just because he's strong, and had a very good 2nd year. As I have said before, I've met Gronk quite a few times locally (he grew up down the road) and he has never been anything but a wrecking-ball on the football field. There are many guys who do okay but aren't barn-burners in college, that teams see a huge upside in. Gronk had that upside in his mix of size, strength and hands for New England, who drafted in the 2nd round. He has a great scheme, one of the best QBs in the history of football, and his size. All of those combined with additional knowledge of the playbook, route-running, and up-close-and-personal coaching can easily account for his success.

On top of that; If he's using PEDs to get an advantage, I'd say he should be healing faster than most others with similar injuries not slower. Recovery time for many things are cut way down when using Steroids (and many other forms of PEDs that are less traceable).

You're free to have your own opinion like you stated, but based on your logic, there are so many players that you can point to with your logic. It does no good, and there are guys who are naturally that large and athletic who will then be lumped into a category of yours just because of physical appearance and breakout seasons.

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The Full Monty

The Full Monty

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You're free to have your own opinion like you stated, but based on your logic, there are so many players that you can point to with your logic. It does no good, and there are guys who are naturally that large and athletic who will then be lumped into a category of yours just because of physical appearance and breakout seasons.

Fair enough! Cheers.

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GoSkins0721

GoSkins0721

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If he is it isn't helping him now. He'll probably needed at least one more to adjust his plates. Then another if the infection has spreaded.

"New England Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski is scheduled to undergo a fourth surgery on his left forearm next week, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. The exact date of the surgery is not yet set."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9283873/rob-gronkowski-new-england-patriots-needs-fourth-surgery-left-forearm-according-sources

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