An Alternative to a QB in the 1st Round

[Redskins4ever]

I like RG3 and Luck. But the only way of attaining either of them would be to trade up. Unless Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan feel Luck is without a doubt worthy of being selected in exchange for future 1st and 2nd round picks, then I say they should consider the idea. If it's all about winning then they should draft RG3 or Luck. But if they feel they should stay put or trade back, then they should draft Tannehill and include quality draft picks with their selections. The future doesn't appear murky if the Redskins allow RG3 and Luck to be drafted by other teams. But as long as they feel Ryan Tannehill is an upgrade over Beck and Grossman then I'm all for the Redskins drafting Tannehill.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Alex has done OK, but he's limited and his deficiencies will show themselves in the playoffs. They won't win anything with him at QB. Brees, Rodgers, Ben or Brady will take home the trophy. The lesser QB's will all be sent home again. Ryan, Flacco, Smith. Look at the Jets with Sanchez. Top running game, suffocating defense but mediocre QB play. Had they had a better QB, they probably would have taken it all in back to back seasons.

If you get a chance to grab a great QB prospect you have to grab him. The other spots are easier to fill.

Exactly - nobody is saying that balance is unimportant. But bad supporting cast + great QB will beat great supporting cast + bad QB. The Colts and Steelers beat the Jets, despite the Jets being better on both sides of the ball outside QB. The great QBs need great supporting casts to win, but great supporting casts need great QBs to win as well.

[martytheman]

Alex has done OK, but he's limited and his deficiencies will show themselves in the playoffs. They won't win anything with him at QB. Brees, Rodgers, Ben or Brady will take home the trophy. The lesser QB's will all be sent home again. Ryan, Flacco, Smith. Look at the Jets with Sanchez. Top running game, suffocating defense but mediocre QB play. Had they had a better QB, they probably would have taken it all in back to back seasons.

If you get a chance to grab a great QB prospect you have to grab him. The other spots are easier to fill.

That remains to be seen. You don't get to 12-3 by accident, and they did beat teams like the steelers, lions, giants and eagles.

The whole point of going to the playoffs is it's a new season, and everyone there has a chance to get hot and ride to the big game, or get a few lucky bounces.

The way you people here look at it, even the playoffs wouldn't be good enough for you... It seems that the attitude here is: "we don't have a good enough qb to win anything, so there's no point in going to the playoffs"

At least once you're there you have a CHANCE, no matter how small.

[Bonez3]

Well, just did year end inventory on our roster:

We need a good RT and a good NT...That should be our 1st rounder if Luck/RG3 not there.

DE should be fine with Jenkins coming back and Adam.

MLB we can squeeze one more year outta Fletch and looks like Perry is the new MLB. OLB obviosly set.

CB's should be Barnes/Wilson. Hall can go or stay, prefer him to leave. We could use 2nd rounder on CB for depth.

Safety play is fine for now.

WR play is serviceable as well. Certainly try to land a good 4/5th rounder.

[ArmchairRedskin]

That remains to be seen. You don't get to 12-3 by accident, and they did beat teams like the steelers, lions, giants and eagles.

The whole point of going to the playoffs is it's a new season, and everyone there has a chance to get hot and ride to the big game, or get a few lucky bounces.

The way you people here look at it, even the playoffs wouldn't be good enough for you... It seems that the attitude here is: "we don't have a good enough qb to win anything, so there's no point in going to the playoffs"

At least once you're there you have a CHANCE, no matter how small.

I'd rather get to the playoffs with a good chance to win it than to hope a few lucky bounces cover for my mediocre QB play. I go back to the Sanchez example. This year their run game and defense have fallen off from the past two years while their QB play has remained mediocre and inconsistent. Where are they now? Hoping that three games go their way so they can back into the playoffs.

Look how long the Steelers and Cowher piddled around with mediocre QB play until they got Ben. Now they got Ben and they're in it every single year. Brady, no matter how crappy his defense or how bad his recievers are is in it every single year. The Colts were in it every single year until Peyton went down. Now that team is about to pick top 2. Brees goes to the Saints and all of a sudden they are a great team. They sure weren't before he showed up. You can't tell me that Alex Smith would be leading that team like Brees does.

If you have an Elite QB you are gonna be in it. Elite QB's elevate the rest of the team like no other position on the field. We have two elite (hopefully two) prospects coming out and we are picking relatively early. If you can make it happen then you gotta take the shot and make that move. Once he is in place, the rest will come together.

I certainly don't want to count on lucky bounces to make our way through the playoffs. I want to be able to have confidence that my QB is gonna be the best one on the field that day and that he'll lead us to the win.

[Ji]

I think what we need to do is

1) Trade picks for RGIII

2) Sign best free agent WR (Bowe,Vincent Jackson)

3) Spend heavily in free agency on OL depth

4) Use the rest of our picks to draft BPA

[Destino]

I think what we need to do is

1) Trade picks for RGIII

2) Sign best free agent WR (Bowe,Vincent Jackson)

3) Spend heavily in free agency on OL depth

4) Use the rest of our picks to draft BPA

You can find good interior lineman in middle rounds and FA lineman are almost all older than ideal and recovering from injuries. I agree that if we trade rounds 1-3 to move up a RT would be a must in FA.

[moondog]

It seems that we are going to be extremely unfortunate in the sense that RGIII and Barkley will remain in school (I did not want Barkley but if they had both came out it helps in the sense that another team may want him so it helps us get RGIII). Anything can happen before the draft, it is a long time away.

I am definitely in the crowd that if RGIII does not come out, we should not reach. If we do not trade up for Luck and there is not a player we love at our position in the draft then I am all for trading back again considering how much success we had regardless of the round in the draft.

As for Weeden - I think his maturity has taken him a long way in college but I don't think that translates to the Pros. It's all about performance combined with leadership. And I don't think he's that guy. Obviously neither were Weinke or our very own John Beck. But looking at Weeden as an isolated player, I'm just not intrigued and it seems like taking a QB just to take one.

If there's just not a QB that we like, that's understandable. I'm praying Shanahan loves some QB and takes him and it proves to be a steal. But I'm not that intrigued by any of the other guys out there as our future. I like the idea of building a dominating defense and a great offense and staying the course with a QB for one more year. You need an excellent QB to be a long term contender, but you can't just take a guy because you need one. The problem is that although the model has worked for San Francisco, they have a QB that does not turn the ball over. Rex is much more capable of moving an offense down the field and putting up points, but I don't think it's worth the turnovers. And there's not another guy out there I see available in FA that can really zone in on our offense. Unfortunately, our defense is also nowhere near the consistency of SF. They usually play well but don't force enough turnovers in games that are even or we're slightly behind and when we are scoring points there are games where the defense just completely folds.

If we're not completely enamored with a QB then we can't just waste a pick on one, but we have to make sure to hit on all other picks and build a great team around Rex or whoever else is here next year.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Read more of the thread, man. RGIII may not declare and Barkeley has already stated he's going back to USC. That would leave Luck and not a whole hell of a lot. There will be qbs that will shoot up draft boards because of the lack of talent at the qb position and other teams will reach. If we don't draft Luck then we should find one via trade or free agency because it is obvious that is the most glaring weakness; but that does not mean we reach blindly for a guy who we hope will pan out because we need that position. That's the old way of doing things.

Ok that makes sense to me. If we can't land Luck or RGIII and they feel that no other QB is actually worth the first pick they have, at whatever order that is, then I suppose I'm ok with NOT getting a QB. But that means losing again in 2012 to draft a QB in 2013? What if they finish 8-8? 9-7? Sure that's great but doesn't help them get a 'franchise' qb next year. At some point you have to suck it up if you feel that the QB available THIS season IS your man.

---------- Post added December-28th-2011 at 07:25 PM ----------

I'd rather get to the playoffs with a good chance to win it than to hope a few lucky bounces cover for my mediocre QB play. I go back to the Sanchez example. This year their run game and defense have fallen off from the past two years while their QB play has remained mediocre and inconsistent. Where are they now? Hoping that three games go their way so they can back into the playoffs.

Look how long the Steelers and Cowher piddled around with mediocre QB play until they got Ben. Now they got Ben and they're in it every single year. Brady, no matter how crappy his defense or how bad his recievers are is in it every single year. The Colts were in it every single year until Peyton went down. Now that team is about to pick top 2. Brees goes to the Saints and all of a sudden they are a great team. They sure weren't before he showed up. You can't tell me that Alex Smith would be leading that team like Brees does.

If you have an Elite QB you are gonna be in it. Elite QB's elevate the rest of the team like no other position on the field. We have two elite (hopefully two) prospects coming out and we are picking relatively early. If you can make it happen then you gotta take the shot and make that move. Once he is in place, the rest will come together.

I certainly don't want to count on lucky bounces to make our way through the playoffs. I want to be able to have confidence that my QB is gonna be the best one on the field that day and that he'll lead us to the win.

I pretty much agree with everything you just said!

[Mania]

Well, just did year end inventory on our roster:

We need a good RT and a good NT...That should be our 1st rounder if Luck/RG3 not there.

DE should be fine with Jenkins coming back and Adam.

MLB we can squeeze one more year outta Fletch and looks like Perry is the new MLB. OLB obviosly set.

CB's should be Barnes/Wilson. Hall can go or stay, prefer him to leave. We could use 2nd rounder on CB for depth.

Safety play is fine for now.

WR play is serviceable as well. Certainly try to land a good 4/5th rounder.

You can get a good RT in the 2nd or 3rd round

[DogofWar1]

That remains to be seen. You don't get to 12-3 by accident, and they did beat teams like the steelers, lions, giants and eagles.

The whole point of going to the playoffs is it's a new season, and everyone there has a chance to get hot and ride to the big game, or get a few lucky bounces.

The way you people here look at it, even the playoffs wouldn't be good enough for you... It seems that the attitude here is: "we don't have a good enough qb to win anything, so there's no point in going to the playoffs"

At least once you're there you have a CHANCE, no matter how small.

Okay, so I wrote a nice post about San Fran, but the internet crapped out and I lost it, so I'll get to the point quickly.

San Fran, even if they win the SB, will be part of an exclusive club of teams that are exceptions to the rule, and who, almost without fail, fell off from their high point quickly and did not recover until a solid QB joined their ranks.

2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs succeeded because they had every piece working except the QB, who usually played decently enough anyway (much better than Grossman, that's for sure), but they quickly fell off from there. The key reason is that these teams have a lot of moving parts, and if a couple of those pieces disappear, the team will revert.

What happens if San Fran's D has some major injuries? Frank Gore retires? In essence, the rest of the team is covering for Smith's play. When he has to put the team on his back, he and the team will most likely fail, and the whole house of cards comes crumbling down.

Meanwhile if Brady, Rodgers, or Brees have crappy Ds, they'll still win a lot, because they'll score a lot and cover for their team's inadequacies.

Now, I don't think we should reach for the sake of reaching for a QB, but if RGIII declares, we need to make a move for one of the top 2. As long as the price isn't insane (3 or more 1sts is probably too much), we should go for them and then build around them. A franchise QB will give us as good of a team as solid players at all of our weaknesses would, except it will be far more consistent, as the charade won't fall apart if our defense or rbs stumble. If both of those top 2 are gone, then I wouldn't mind taking a top CB, WR, or maybe OL, or alternatively trading down for Tannehill, but we really need to go after QB first if we can.

[ToaCommander]

If we cannot get a franchise QB (Luck) or (RGIII if he stays behind). My option is to take a stud WR (Blackmon or Jeffery) or RB (T Richardson) or RT prospect in the 1st. Someone to help out our offense and QB for 2012 while we wait for 2013 for franchise QB... {said the same thing last year and I don't know if I can stomach another year of middling offense and above average defense}.

Take a prospect QB in 2nd rd downwards like Tannehill or Jones or Moore whoever is a deemed ok to develop this year to become a backup for years to come.

Also target a NT and MLB and possibly a CB in the draft.

PS. I really hope we somehow someway get Luck or RGIII or trade for Bradford if Rams draft Luck. Once we have a franchise QB, everything else falls into place is my opinion.

[2006Skins]

If we cannot get a franchise QB (Luck) or (RGIII if he stays behind). My option is to take a stud WR (Blackmon or Jeffery) or RB (T Richardson) or RT prospect in the 1st. Someone to help out our offense and QB for 2012 while we wait for 2013 for franchise QB... {said the same thing last year and I don't know if I can stomach another year of middling offense and above average defense}.

Take a prospect QB in 2nd rd downwards like Tannehill or Jones or Moore whoever is a deemed ok to develop this year to become a backup for years to come.

Also target a NT and MLB and possibly a CB in the draft.

PS. I really hope we somehow someway get Luck or RGIII or trade for Bradford if Rams draft Luck. Once we have a franchise QB, everything else falls into place is my opinion.

While I agree with your sentiments about our need for a franchise qb, you have to remember the saying that if you miss on a franchise qb it puts your franchise back 5 years. If we need a stopgap that doesn't turn the ball over for this next year than so be it. The only thing worse than not getting our franchise guy is reaching for a qb who isn't going to be a franchise guy.

[ToaCommander]

The only thing worse than not getting our franchise guy is reaching for a qb who isn't going to be a franchise guy.

I agree. What I'm saying is we take a developmental prospect at the round we (Redskins FO) project them at, {I'm guessing here} like Tannehill at (rd 2-3), Landry Jones (rd 3) or Kellen Moore (rd 5??) or some other QB prospect Shanny thinks can play in their system as a future backup.

I'd rather we take a franchise QB now but with teams in front of us in the draft looking for QBs as well, we gotta be prepared for plan B as much as I hate to say it.

[dieselfan44]

While I agree with your sentiments about our need for a franchise qb, you have to remember the saying that if you miss on a franchise qb it puts your franchise back 5 years. If we need a stopgap that doesn't turn the ball over for this next year than so be it. The only thing worse than not getting our franchise guy is reaching for a qb who isn't going to be a franchise guy.

RG3 is the type of guy I want leading my team....Smart as a whip, great personality, big arm, fast as lightning...It may not happen immediately but he's got success written all over him. Luck will be gone....do what you gotta do to get this guy!

[DexterSackMachine]

I agree. What I'm saying is we take a developmental prospect at the round we (Redskins FO) project them at, {I'm guessing here} like Tannehill at (rd 2-3), Landry Jones (rd 3) or Kellen Moore (rd 5??) or some other QB prospect Shanny thinks can play in their system as a future backup.

I'd rather we take a franchise QB now but with teams in front of us in the draft looking for QBs as well, we gotta be prepared for plan B as much as I hate to say it.

Tannehill will not be there in round two or three. The farthest I can see him falling is early round two. He looks pretty good to me, I'd be happy with him if the price to trade up for Luck is too high and we miss (or he doesn't come out) on RG3. A well planned trade down would really make it perfect.