How patient will Danny be with Shanny and son???

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

In fairness, Dan was committed to Gibbs for the five, too, and Zorn didn't merit more than a trial.

Agreed. Norv had to go. Gibbs left on his own. Spurrier and Zorn were in over their heads. I think Marty was the real headscratcher

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

In fairness, Dan was committed to Gibbs for the five, too, and Zorn didn't merit more than a trial.

I have little doubt that had the tragic circumstance of Sean's passing not taken so much out of him, Coach would of been here the full 5 years of his deal. Gibbs was nothing if not a man of his word. It was just unforeseen events that prevented him from honoring that his second go-around.

Hail.

[Destino]

In fairness, Dan was committed to Gibbs for the five, too, and Zorn didn't merit more than a trial.

He's also never won less than 12 games in two consecutive seasons and Gibbs made the post season in his 2nd year and again in year 4. Having said that I agree that Shanahan will be allowed time. Just depends on how bad it gets. All bets are off if they have a terrible QB situation again and have another bad year. Shanahan can't make another bad major QB mistake.

[hail2skins]

Dan was committed to Gibbs for the five but lets be honest.....if there's one person on earth who is bulletproof in terms of being fired as Redskins coach, its Joe.

Zorn didn't merit more than a trial? Look, after the 2008 collapse and start of 2009 against the bottom feeders of the league, I plead guilty to having been tired of Zorn. But Shanahan's results a season and a half in have been pretty bad. Unless you think that Zorn somehow inherited this spectacular team, which I'm not really sure he did.

[SKINSFAN87]

very patient, shanny isn't going anywhere for awhile. Which is great news for us fans, because shanahan new the mess he was getting into when he took over this team. It's going to take 3 to 4 years under shanny to get this team competitive each and every sunday. I'm sure snyder is on board

[fuji869]

I think Shanny is safe for at least 2 more seasons. This organization was a mess when him a Bruce took over, after Joe Gibbs did a major repair job, and Mike probably told that Danny before he took the job that the rebuilding will take a few years. As for son I think he might be gone after that season.

[Phixius]

Just curious what you guys think here. Shanny and son have clearly not had the type of success neither they nor we hoped for.

Will Danny be patient enough to give them another year if this season continues to head the way it is trending? Would you give them the benefit of the doubt if in Danny's position?

As for me, I'd probably give them another season to show some serious progress. After that all bets off.

Your thoughts?

The question is will the fans be patient enough? Shanahan has only one full year under his belt and you expect him to be successful?

[KCClybun]

He's also never won less than 12 games in two consecutive seasons and Gibbs made the post season in his 2nd year and again in year 4. Having said that I agree that Shanahan will be allowed time. Just depends on how bad it gets. All bets are off if they have a terrible QB situation again and have another bad year. Shanahan can't make another bad major QB mistake.

That Joe Gibbs managed to get those crappy rosters to the playoffs twice is a testament to his awesomeness. That being said, the point of making it to the playoffs is to make it to a Super Bowl, and neither of those teams had a chance to make it to a Super Bowl.

And a terrible quarterback situation is in the eye of the beholder. If a rookie struggles like a rookie and we end up going 6-10, does Dan clean house? I'm not sure about that.

[Destino]

Shanahan. 6-10, 3-6 (in progress)

Zorn. 8-8, 4-12

Gibbs. 6-10, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7

Spurrier. 7-9, 5-11

Marty. 8-8

Depending on how this plays out this may be the worst Dan has ever experienced from a coach in terms of results. That's what makes me worry about Dan Snyder. Shanahan doesn't need to be fired to leave. All Dan needs to do is move to take his personnel decisions away and mike would leave.

[Jumbo]

Agreed. Norv had to go. Gibbs left on his own. Spurrier and Zorn were in over their heads. I think Marty was the real headscratcher

Pretty much how I see it. But you know the course here' date=' SSHOF63... there's a lot more opinionating present than brains to match it. :pfft:

Interestingly, most of the "changes" that [i']were[/i] made by ownership came at a time where they were, of course, being screamed for by a vast contingent of typical fans.

Just as we witnessed screaming here already for the heads of Kyle, Jim, Mike, and/or Bruce.

One never-ending truth is that a notable majority of people who post on this (or any) similar message board aren't exactly NFL-football-wise (I'm being kind) when held to any decently high standard---especially when it comes down to complicated topics, which includes most matters of importance.

---------- Post added November-19th-2011 at 04:33 PM ----------

And Des, I'd argue that a lot of more competent experts see the current pile-o-crap as largely resulting from the continuous accumulation of the years and people (all staff in all roles) involved over the time you note, and not some proof of comparative incompetence of the current staff. I sure see it in the latter light at this point.

I'm never one to suggest anyone but a very few people in football are just awesome, and certainly our FO even now isn't close to anything like that at this point, nor did I expect it. But I think people are way to quick to believe they know way more than they do about the what's and why's of the situation. More time is needed to tell, and Smyder will give it.

[hail2skins]

That Joe Gibbs managed to get those crappy rosters to the playoffs twice is a testament to his awesomeness.

Zorn floundered with the crappy rosters and was fired after two years. Shanahan is similarly floundering with crappy rosters and there's little chance Snyder gets rid of him.

Nothing wrong with having patience with Mike, but I'm afraid that we're seeing a pattern that the only way Snyder will have patience is if he's star-struck with a coach. Dan is going to own the team long after Shanahan retires. For the duration of his ownership, are we going to hire retreads, or are we going to take chances on young coordinators?

People say that how Snyder deals with Shanahan will tell us whether he's changed, but I think how Snyder chooses and then treats the NEXT head coach will tell more.

[Destino]

Jumbo I'd agree with those experts. My issue is that I don't know how Dan sees it. I don't have any confidence in his decision making. Mike needs time and the only reason I'd take a different direction is if he made another major mistake at QB. If he does that I'd strip him of the ability to pick the QB and allow him to walk if he wasn't ok with it.

[Tom10Y]

Fans can pretend to know what Dan Snyder is going to do but how many of them saw Marty getting canned after 1 year ahead of time? How many could predict Spurrier or his sudden vanishing act? Gibbs left early and none of his asst got the job. Who called that? Anyone see Zorn happening? Who would have said "hey Dan is going to get tanked and fly out to Shanahan fun palace" during Zorn's second season?

No one knows what the heck Dan will do. We can hope however he does the right thing and let's this staff finish what they started and that he hires someone that fits after they've gone. Rebuilding sucks but it has to be done.

I think Dan has no choice but to keep Shanny for two reasons. One is that he knows he's under the microscope when it comes to being impatient with coaches and he will be ripped by everyone for it. As one mentioned, he knows he has to keep continuity. The second reason for this and also partly why I think the first point is valid is because he will pay Shanahan $7mil for each year of him coaching or not coaching which shows commitment and his hands are tied.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Shottenheimer had 1 year left that they had to pay, which was minimal. Spurrier quit so they didn't have to pay the rest of the contract, Gibbs also resigned after his fourth year. Zorn was fired but he really didn't have any years left of his contract. So in all this, only Shanahan would cost Snyder significantly if he was fired.

[Crazy Levi]

Zorn never should have been hired in the first place.

That coaching search was the most disastrous in NFL history.

[Jumbo]

Jumbo I'd agree with those experts. My issue is that I don't know how Dan sees it. I don't have any confidence in his decision making. Mike needs time and the only reason I'd take a different direction is if he made another major mistake at QB. If he does that I'd strip him of the ability to pick the QB and allow him to walk if he wasn't ok with it.

Des, regardless of what anyone knows or doesn't about all of it, I can't fault anyone who feels a reasonable lack of confidence in what Dan may do or may not do.

I land on the side that he's really learned through serious pain how his best intentions and not-insubstantial ego don't translate into Redskins on-the-field-success, which I believe he desperately wants. Perhaps it's a rare moment of foolish optimism or an even rarer moment of wishful thinking on my part. I guess in the end we both just have to hope. After 50 years olf being a 'skins fan, I'm a little surprised I still have the endurance. But hell, look at Oldfan.

[jflow78]

I don't know what Dan WILL do, but what he SHOULD do is let Shanahan fulfill his contract. I don't care how bad we are the next couple of years. It's not the coaches who have been the issue here for 20 years, it's the type of mentality that has grown on the team, the interchangeable coach mentality where players don't have to buy into anything because blink and you'll have a new coach anyway.

At some point, it's better to realize nothing is changing and you can either continue to be an embarrassment and stink, or you can do whatever it takes, bad or good coach, and learn to play better. It's not as if Shanahan's never had good teams. He might not be a coach that can make something from nothing, but he's had teams play a heck of a lot better than the one that's here right now, so I'm blaming at least half of this (if not more) on the players lack of effort and putting in the time. You don't get worse during the season unless you're half-assing it on the practice field.

[brandymac27]

I honestly think that Mike will stay here as long as he wants to be here. I'm pretty certain Dan won't fire him, even after the 5 years are up. I don't know why, but I get the feeling that Dan looks at Mike like he looked up to Gibbs. As far as Kyle goes, probably the same (here as long as he wants to be here). But I'm not as certain about Kyle as I am with Mike.

[PeterMP]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I have no idea what Snyder will or do or what he should do.

If Shanahan told him that he could turn this team around and a year or 2 and that McNabb would still be a good QB in that time frame, that the pieces to switch to a 3-4 were here (e.g. Andre Carter could play OLB) and the switch would be seamless, that Newton wasn't worth trading up to get and there were no good QBs in the draft after him (i.e. that Dalton wasn't any good), that he could win with the combination of Beck and Grossman.

I couldn't blame Snyder if he was starting to wonder if he made the right decision. I couldn't blame him if he wanted to shift some of the power away from Shanahan, ESPECIALLY if somebody else (e.g. Allen) has been better at analyzing the situation.

[Bat~man]

He will be here for the duration of the contract and maybe beyond. Dan isn't as quick triggered as people make him out to be... he has most definitely make some knee-jerk reactions..but I think he has proven that he's catching on by getting rid of the Vinny.

My question is, can most of you as fans see this thing through without blowing your lid? I know it's really hard for me to remain calm at times..especially during the games! We just have to see it through. If Shanny isn't the coach that takes us where we want to be, then hopefully he gets this thing cleaned up enough that the next guy can pick up where Shanny left off and push this team over the line. It's obvious that Shanny is doing it the right way for long term success... it's just hard because from his first day he had to start filling in starters and by the end of it we will have a new starter in damn near every position on the field. What's worse is, as he is filling in his guys...the guys that he hangs onto are just getting older. It's a long, painful process.

[1972dodgedart]

At least two more years sounds about right. Dan's problem is that he can't afford to appear as if he ran Shanahan off. Zorn is one thing, but Shanahan has a solid reputation around the league -- good luck getting someone on the level of Cowher or Gruden if they perceive that Shanahan had no chance to be successful here.

[hail2skins]

good luck getting someone on the level of Cowher or Gruden if they perceive that Shanahan had no chance to be successful here.

I don't really care about getting someone "on the level of Cowher or Gruden."

Was Joe Gibbs regarded as being "on the level" of Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, or Don Shula in 1981?

[Bat~man]

I don't really care about getting someone "on the level of Cowher or Gruden."

Was Joe Gibbs regarded as being "on the level" of Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, or Don Shula in 1981?

+1

Especially when it comes to Cowher. The dude was with the Steelers for a lifetime and didn't get a SB until the end. He will want to come in a re-structure this team again~! If Shanny doesn't make it.. I would like someone to come in with the same schemes so we can just continue to build..the hell with all this change. What would be different from hiring a guy with 2 SBs (Shanny) compared to hiring a guy with 1? The NFL is moving away from the smashmouth, grind out boring wins that Cowher was famous for..I hope he stays retired honestly. That way the Dan won't be tempted.

I do really like Gruden, but he isn't a coach anymore. Even if he comes back, he won't last. Sometimes, you just have to move on and find your own coaches.

[KCClybun]

I don't really care about getting someone "on the level of Cowher or Gruden."

Was Joe Gibbs regarded as being "on the level" of Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, or Don Shula in 1981?

What young assistant on someone else's team or guy from the college level is going to want to come here and coach here if they felt Mike wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt? If a Super Bowl winning coach can't get more than two seasons, what hopes does anyone else have?

[hail2skins]

What young assistant on someone else's team or guy from the college level is going to want to come here and coach here if they felt Mike wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt? If a Super Bowl winning coach can't get more than two seasons, what hopes does anyone else have?

NLC, first off, I agree that Shanahan needs to be given more time......but then again, Zorn probably deserved more time as well.

But it cracks me up when I hear the hand-wringing about "we tried the HOF coach route! we tried the college coach route! we tried the assistant coach route! Oh my, what will happen if Shanny doesn't work out??"

Simply: we'll hire another coach. And hopefully it'll won't necessarily be a big name.

[Bat~man]

What young assistant on someone else's team or guy from the college level is going to want to come here and coach here if they felt Mike wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt? If a Super Bowl winning coach can't get more than two seasons, what hopes does anyone else have?

Hmm. I am all for Shanny staying and I think it would be an historically dumb move to fire him...but if he did and wanted some young assistant, he would find someone. There isn't a shortage of guys that want to be NFL head coaches and all of them are thinking they can turn a team like the Redskins around..and if they don't succeed, they have the experience to put on a resume. A coach with an already impressive resume may not wanna come here, but, some young hotshot that's dying to make a name for himself would be all over it. How do you think the Raiders keep getting coaches?