BBC: Where child sacrifice is a business

[SWFLSkins]

That is an awful interpretation of that passage, Jesus wasn't saying that we wouldn't be able to tell what is and isn't sin, because if you actually finished quoting that verse you'll see that he says, "for the measure you use will be used against you. What's more is Jesus repeatedly stated that we will know people by the fruit they bear, and in order to do that we have to be able to judge between good and bad fruit, to think otherwise is immature.

Sure it is, now if you're talking about the sinful nature that we all have before God then yes, but if you don't think that child murder is a greater sin than say lying then you really need to re-evaluate how you understand sin.

You are only unable to pass judgment upon the soul of the other.

That again is a misunderstanding of sin, yes they all make us guilty before God, but not all sin is equal in consequence.

Watch this, child sacrifice is EVIL and I pass judgment upon it as evil, and may God have mercy upon those who do it, and may God deliver the victims from their hands.

---------- Post added October-12th-2011 at 02:00 PM ----------

How absurd! Who said ANYTHING about killing them in response, you create an infantile false dichotomy as if there are only two options "not judge their sin" or "kill them", how immature.

On what grounds do you hate it? You cannot because you supposedly cannot judge.

So at 36 you judge me as immature yet you can't just hold a discussion about a topic for which we simply disagree. How rich.

---------- Post added October-12th-2011 at 10:32 PM ----------

[quote name=Tweedr01;8603384

where are you pulling all of this from? who is going to kill who? why is that the only solution? You are talking about one sin not being greater than another' date=' all well and true according to God, but there are punishments relative to the crime committed here on earth, without law there is chaos.

http://carm.org/shall-we-obey-gods-law-or-human-law

Thankfully yes, we have a legal system that can protect children. Part of my point.

---------- Post added October-12th-2011 at 10:36 PM ----------

And please stop taking that quote out of context. Here's the first few verses of Matthew 7 (KJV)

So sure, we should refrain from judging those who commit child sacrifice. At least, if we're also engaged in it. Otherwise these verses do not apply to this situation any more than it does to looking down upon child slavery, terror bombings, mass genocide, etc. Otherwise you speaking ill of child abusers just makes you a hypocrite as well.

My point was made, even if unbeknownst to you and ASF. Holier than thou don't fly with me, and that is what Christ found so appalling about Christians and church leaders his first go round.

[Skin'Em84]

I may not always agree with you ASF, but go get 'em. You are one of the few people in this thread keeping my faith in humanity alive.

[SWFLSkins]

I may not always agree with you ASF' date=' but go get 'em. You are one of the few people in this thread keeping my faith in humanity alive.[/quote']

I put my faith in God, not humanity.

[megared]

Every time I read one of these stories about how prevalent the belief in witchcraft is in Africa, I wonder just how the hell the world is supposed to deal with such unbelievable ignorance?

Africa is an unfixable problem, IMO. You simply can't make strides in trying to end all the problems of the continent in the face of that.

Education,, sure, I gues. Aid? Never gets where it is supposed to go. Money? Makes warlords, not much else.

How the **** does the modern world pull the anchor that is Africa from the neck of progress?

~Bang

Way to project an article from a notoriously backwards country onto an entire continent. Not to deny this goes on more than it should there, but Uganda has a laundry list of humans rights violations. And even in Uganda so called witchcraft is few and far between. 83% of the population is Christian and 12% is Muslim. It's comparable to someone looking at the number of murders a serial killer committed as a justification as to why America is dangerous. Do you believe that the majority of the population condones or participates in that behavior?

It's real easy to sit on a high horse and judge another country...especially when the events that many Ugandans lived through, such as disease, military coups, Idi Amin, war with Tanzania, civil wars, are all foreign to you. Not to mention, how exactly are Ugandans supposed to conform with the Western world's standards when education there is still sporadic?

[DeaconTheVillain]

[AsburySkinsFan]

So at 36 you judge me as immature yet you can't just hold a discussion about a topic for which we simply disagree. How rich.

As always, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts and in the case of scripture, you're not entitled to your own interpretation, and this "all sin is the same" is a recent development that tries to raise the severity of all sin (and for sure before God all sin makes us guilty, but it is our sinful natures that make us guilty, the acts of sin are like the sniffles to a cold) but what it really does is minimizes the severity of grievous sins. Murder does not equal lying. And to say that you hate child murder is to make a judgment upon murder, something you yourself said you couldn't do. The reality is that Jesus' teachings are clear, his disciples are to not judge another using a double standard, but we are to evaluate the fruit of the other so that we might help them with the speck of sin in their lives after we have taken the beam out of our own. Jesus didn't say "leave the speck in your neighbor's eye", instead he said, "remove the beam from your own, so that you can help your neighbor with the speck", all of which requires judgment. What's more is that my age has no bearing on me being able to spot an immature interpretation of texts that are quoted out of their contexts. So it's not just that we disagree, we disagree because you have your facts wrong.

My point was made, even if unbeknownst to you and ASF. Holier than thou don't fly with me, and that is what Christ found so appalling about Christians and church leaders his first go round.

So, correcting your error is holier than thou...gotcha. I guess Paul didn't want Timothy to actually listen to him when he said. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.

[Bang]

Way to project an article from a notoriously backwards country onto an entire continent. Not to deny this goes on more than it should there, but Uganda has a laundry list of humans rights violations. And even in Uganda so called witchcraft is few and far between. 83% of the population is Christian and 12% is Muslim. It's comparable to someone looking at the number of murders a serial killer committed as a justification as to why America is dangerous. Do you believe that the majority of the population condones or participates in that behavior?

It's real easy to sit on a high horse and judge another country...especially when the events that many Ugandans lived through, such as disease, military coups, Idi Amin, war with Tanzania, civil wars, are all foreign to you. Not to mention, how exactly are Ugandans supposed to conform with the Western world's standards when education there is still sporadic?

I'm not sitting on a high horse.

I'm asking a legitimate question, whioch you in your zeal to defend the desire to remain ignorant have not answered.

How do you deal with a CONTINENT that has all of this going on in it?

If it's not witchcraft, it's tribal wars. If it's not tribal wars it's religious wars, and on and on and on and on and on. The continent of Afica is a drain on the rest of the world.

But in boiling it just down to Uganda .. You know who to blame when people aren't educated?

Them. You know who to blame when people pay a "witch doctor' to murder a child? THEM.

You blame them for their ignorance.

Anyone who's people looks to witch doctors and human sacrifice in the 21st century,, I definitely look down my nose and wonder how the hell to deal with them.

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

I put my faith in God, not humanity.

Interesting, because God seems to trust humanity pretty well, considering he made us to be his priests.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 09:23 AM ----------

munching popcorn

Great pic!! Totally stealing that one!

[SWFLSkins]

As always, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts and in the case of scripture, you're not entitled to your own interpretation, and this "all sin is the same" is a recent development that tries to raise the severity of all sin (and for sure before God all sin makes us guilty, but it is our sinful natures that make us guilty, the acts of sin are like the sniffles to a cold) but what it really does is minimizes the severity of grievous sins. Murder does not equal lying. And to say that you hate child murder is to make a judgment upon murder, something you yourself said you couldn't do. The reality is that Jesus' teachings are clear, his disciples are to not judge another using a double standard, but we are to evaluate the fruit of the other so that we might help them with the speck of sin in their lives after we have taken the beam out of our own. Jesus didn't say "leave the speck in your neighbor's eye", instead he said, "remove the beam from your own, so that you can help your neighbor with the speck", all of which requires judgment. What's more is that my age has no bearing on me being able to spot an immature interpretation of texts that are quoted out of their contexts. So it's not just that we disagree, we disagree because you have your facts wrong.

So, correcting your error is holier than thou...gotcha. I guess Paul didn't want Timothy to actually listen to him when he said. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.

Because you know scripture so well does that make you better or more spiritually mature than anyone else? And remember ASF Men interept God's word every Sunday in front of masses in their own opinions. As is I believe intended. Gods word is meant to mean different things to different people at different times. Again IMO.

Do you know Mark 16:15? You know snakes and hands on?

I hope that you enjoyed me sharpening you this day, have a blessed day.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 09:42 AM ----------

Interesting, because God seems to trust humanity pretty well, considering he made us to be his priests.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 09:23 AM ----------

Great pic!! Totally stealing that one!

And what priests we have become. Stealing, hhaaa J/K.

[Ellis]

SWFLSkins.... I mean no offense in saying this but you need to calm down and accept that you are being given a quality lesson. This isn't a fight or a debate. You are definitely wrong on this particular issue.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Because you know scripture so well does that make you better or more spiritually mature than anyone else? And remember ASF Men interept God's word every Sunday in front of masses in their own opinions. As is I believe intended. Gods word is meant to mean different things to different people at different times. Again IMO.

After 10 years of Christian higher education and study in the word of God, I'd say my understanding is better than some, not the best by far, I would say that I'm qualified as much as any lawyer is qualified to understand the law. What's more is that if preachers are getting up and giving their opinions then they ought to run from their pulpits...and I mean run, run fast and never look back. As for God's word meaning different things to different people at different times, wrong again, God's word has always meant the same thing, it doesn't change, it is not up to the reader to determine the meaning of the text, that would be like saying that Shakespeare wasn't writing about the complexities of life, but instead the inner-workings of the atom. You don't get to determine what the author meant, it is the job of the reader to find what the author meant, so no, it doesn't mean different things to different people at different times because it isn't a painting that is open to interpretation, there are correct and incorrect interpretations of the text. There are strong and weak interpretations of the text, but the text is not open ended in its interpretation, that reader-response nonsense is garbage.

Do you know Mark 16:15? You know snakes and hands on?

And you know that from Mark 16:9-20 was a later addition that was not in the original texts, most Bibles today indicate as much.

I hope that you enjoyed me sharpening you this day, have a blessed day.

As iron sharpens iron.

[SWFLSkins]

After 10 years of Christian higher education and study in the word of God, I'd say my understanding is better than some, not the best by far, I would say that I'm qualified as much as any lawyer is qualified to understand the law. What's more is that if preachers are getting up and giving their opinions then they ought to run from their pulpits...and I mean run, run fast and never look back. As for God's word meaning different things to different people at different times, wrong again, God's word has always meant the same thing, it doesn't change, it is not up to the reader to determine the meaning of the text, that would be like saying that Shakespeare wasn't writing about the complexities of life, but instead the inner-workings of the atom. You don't get to determine what the author meant, it is the job of the reader to find what the author meant, so no, it doesn't mean different things to different people at different times because it isn't a painting that is open to interpretation, there are correct and incorrect interpretations of the text. There are strong and weak interpretations of the text, but the text is not open ended in its interpretation, that reader-response nonsense is garbage.

And you know that from Mark 16:9-20 was a later addition that was not in the original texts, most Bibles today indicate as much.

As iron sharpens iron.

Thanks for your response in that manner, I appreciate it. I do however respectfully disagree with the intereptation aspect. ;-} Given any number of scenarios the same person may get different meanings and different value from the same scripture. I know God as a living God, flowing like water, sometimes angry, sometimes nearly still, but always loving. Do you know how this morning I came accross that passage from Mark? I prayed and asked for a point of discusion relating to what I was feeling and used my finger in blind faith. That method of finding relevant scripture works for me most often, and when it does not I study that passage until its relevance is revealed to me. It works for me. I think God is an artist, the greatest one.

So Mark 16, etc being added is a part of scripture that men have used to twist the works and words of God? Correct? Sort of like the guys in this case doing what they are.

Jim Jones and David Karesh (sic) are but two examples of bad christian men using the word of God to control men to do things that are unspeakable. That addresses what I think about the subject of the thread as well. You have MEN, Men claiming to be of all sorts of Gods using religion in non-spiritual fashion for personal and even sick gains. If all men professing to be Godly who basically make a living delivering Gods word, you would as you suggested, have massive amounts of people running in the streets, or even child sacrifice. Speaking on twisted idealogy it is the reason organized religion has seen an exodus of late. My church has gone back to the basics of teaching the word, but certainly not forcing it. Many church leaders have failed us recently, but I am not there to follow them and that is my point which is relevant to the thread.

The Bible is the word of God, written and interpreted by men. Men are falable.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Thanks for your response in that manner, I appreciate it. I do however respectfully disagree with the intereptation aspect. ;-}

That's ok, you have the right to be wrong.

Given any number of scenarios the same person may get different meanings and different value from the same scripture.

What you "get" out of a passage at any given time is still dependent upon a proper understanding of the author's intended meaning in the passage. I cannot for instance say that Jesus said "judge not lest you be judged" and say that it means that Christians are not able to judge a particular sin as evil, especially considering the verses that immediately surround that passage which put that passage into its full context which as a result shows the meaning intended by the author. Truly my in-laws have said on more than one occasion that "it is not God's will that any are sick" because the Bible says, 3 John 1:2 "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health," and therefore God wants all to prosper and be in good health because this is God's word and if God said it then it must be true. Yet, doing that to the text rips it from its context in that the passage is part of the initial greeting from John to his audience and he is in every respect saying "Hi, I hope you are well and blessed".

As for Mark 16, it is not part of the original scriptures, and was added at a later time, as such I don't preach it as God's word.

And you are right men are fallible, but that does not mean that humanity is incapable. It also does not mean that God's grace has not been given to us sufficiently to be able to judge between good and evil.

[SWFLSkins]

That's ok, you have the right to be wrong.

As for Mark 16, it is not part of the original scriptures, and was added at a later time, as such I don't preach it as God's word.

And you are right men are fallible, but that does not mean that humanity is incapable. It also does not mean that God's grace has not been given to us sufficiently to be able to judge between good and evil.

I can judge between Good and Evil, but I am not worthy of passing judgement upon another, the act yes, the man no.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I can judge between Good and Evil, but I am not worthy of passing judgement upon another, the act yes, the man no.

Do you agree that there is a difference between judging someone's fruit that they bear and judging that same person in condemnation?

All Jesus is saying is that the measure we use will be used against us. Forgive and it will be forgiven, retain and it will be retained. God's people are not idiots, nor are we incapable of spotting evil in others.

[70th Week]

That's ok, you have the right to be wrong.

Asbury, dude, you're wrong..........and right..

While it would be almost common sense to know that there are different severities of sin as Jesus implied more than 1 time, Jesus suggested that some sins are worse than others when he told the Pharisees they were straining at a gnat (something little, but still bad) but swallowed a camel (something bigger and worse). "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23: 23 – 24).

But don't forget the one's who are swallowing the knat are on their way to the same hell as the one's who are swallowing the camel without the life giving blood of Jesus Christ applied to their lives...in that sense, YES, all sins are the same...you'll still die by them big or small without Jesus....it's called GRACE....furthermore, stop trying to correct everyone on the board all the time, if anyone is hijacking threads around here it's YOU.

[SWFLSkins]

Do you agree that there is a difference between judging someone's fruit that they bear and judging that same person in condemnation?

All Jesus is saying is that the measure we use will be used against us. Forgive and it will be forgiven, retain and it will be retained. God's people are not idiots, nor are we incapable of spotting evil in others.

Spotting evil in others is easy, spotting evil in oneself not so much. And changing either is another story.

[AsburySkinsFan]

But don't forget the one's who are swallowing the knat are on their way to the same hell as the one's who are swallowing the camel without the life giving blood of Jesus Christ applied to their lives...in that sense, YES, all sins are the same...you'll still die by them big or small

And now it is time for you to reaveal that you err in the same way, it is not by the sinful acts that we are condemned before the throne, it is because we have the stain of sin upon us that makes us guilty before God, this is the reason Jesus was born of a virgin so as to not be contaminated by the sin of Adam. Again, the acts of sin are only the symptom of the sinful nature within us by which we are found guilty before God, and it is the grace of God and the blood of the sacrifice that removes the stain from us so that we may be reckoned as righteous by faith.

without Jesus....it's called GRACE

Gee really

....furthermore, stop trying to correct everyone on the board all the time,

Watch out, because I think you just tried to correct me....tried.

if anyone is hijacking threads around here it's YOU.

I tried to keep this on topic but you know me well enough to know that I'm not going to let deficient interpretations go unchallenged.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 04:25 PM ----------

Spotting evil in others is easy, spotting evil in oneself not so much. And changing either is another story.

And yet by your own argument you are not allowed to judge as to whether or not something in the life of another is evil, an idea which is further rebuffed by the Biblical teaching of holding church members accountable through discipline, how can they hold a church member for a continual sin if they are not permitted to judge the sin in the life of the other?

BTW, I don't know about you but I can normally spot my own sin fairly easily.

[70th Week]

And now it is time for you to reaveal that you err in the same way, it is not by the sinful acts that we are condemned before the throne, it is because we have the stain of sin upon us that makes us guilty before God, this is the reason Jesus was born of a virgin so as to not be contaminated by the sin of Adam. Again, the acts of sin are only the symptom of the sinful nature within us by which we are found guilty before God, and it is the grace of God and the blood of the sacrifice that removes the stain from us so that we may be reckoned as righteous by faith.

Wait.....it is not by sinful acts? Sure it is. That is PART of what leads us to the need of redemption. But not all.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17.

[SWFLSkins]

I tried to keep this on topic but you know me well enough to know that I'm not going to let deficient interpretations go unchallenged.

And yet by your own argument you are not allowed to judge as to whether or not something in the life of another is evil, an idea which is further rebuffed by the Biblical teaching of holding church members accountable through discipline, how can they hold a church member for a continual sin if they are not permitted to judge the sin in the life of the other?

BTW, I don't know about you but I can normally spot my own sin fairly easily.

What about the abnormal when it is fairly difficult?

Deficient interpretations as judged by you, hmmm. I hold you in such high regard that means what? See this is where you lose me, as if I am somehow accountable to you. You don't look at everyone as a brother in the walk but as a bother? I was once in a conversation with an atheist when another "more" christian that I could not continue talking about God with him and stormed off. He forgot that the guy was still talking. Encourage exchange don't discount it.

And yes I consider my judging people one of my sins that was fairly easy to identify and I am working on it.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Wait.....it is not by sinful acts? Sure it is. That is PART of what leads us to the need of redemption. But not all.

Are you or are you not born with under the sin of Adam that separates humanity from God? Why was it necessary that Jesus was born a virgin? Acts are the symptoms of the disease.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17.

You've proved nothing here, all you've done is show that even people who are disciples are still in this life suffering under the curse of original sin.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 06:14 PM ----------

What about the abnormal when it is fairly difficult?

Let's put it this way, if I were kidnapping and killing children I'd be able to spot my own evil, and I'd be able to judge it as such, something you apparently cannot do.

Deficient interpretations as judged by you, hmmm.

Do you take this same approach with a lawyer when they explain that your understanding of the law is deficient, or when their trained understanding differs from yours do you say, "Hmmm, they are the one that's trained not me, I probably better listen?"

I hold you in such high regard that means what? See this is where you lose me, as if I am somehow accountable to you.

We are each accountable to one another in the church are we not? Or because you are an eye do you think that I as a hand am not part of the same body of Christ?

You don't look at everyone as a brother in the walk but as a bother? I was once in a conversation with an atheist when another "more" christian that I could not continue talking about God with him and stormed off. He forgot that the guy was still talking. Encourage exchange don't discount it.

I don't think I walked off on you, but you won't listen to sound teaching, and it is not my job to encourage you in your mistake.

And yes I consider my judging people one of my sins that was fairly easy to identify and I am working on it.

Again you are working with the understanding that "to judge" only has one usage...i.e. to condemn. But instead to judge/evaluate the sin of another is what we are called to do with each other so that we might hold one another accountable, if you cannot or will not judge the sin in the life of your brother how can you hold him accountable for that sin as we are called to do?

[SWFLSkins]

Let's put it this way, if I were kidnapping and killing children I'd be able to spot my own evil, and I'd be able to judge it as such, something you apparently cannot do.

Do you take this same approach with a lawyer when they explain that your understanding of the law is deficient, or when their trained understanding differs from yours do you say, "Hmmm, they are the one that's trained not me, I probably better listen?"

We are each accountable to one another in the church are we not? Or because you are an eye do you think that I as a hand am not part of the same body of Christ?

I don't think I walked off on you, but you won't listen to sound teaching, and it is not my job to encourage you in your mistake.

Again you are working with the understanding that "to judge" only has one usage...i.e. to condemn. But instead to judge/evaluate the sin of another is what we are called to do with each other so that we might hold one another accountable, if you cannot or will not judge the sin in the life of your brother how can you hold him accountable for that sin as we are called to do?

False on the first sentence, 100%. In fact I would forego my own salvation and let God hold me accountable for my actions if I were in attendance of these events, forgiveness would not be in my heart. Death penalty immediately administered. Now how do you feel about killing someone convicted of murder or rape?

[AsburySkinsFan]

False on the first sentence, 100%. In fact I would forego my own salvation and let God hold me accountable for my actions if I were in attendance of these events, forgiveness would not be in my heart. Death penalty immediately administered.

So you don't believe God has given everyone a conscience?

Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.

Now how do you feel about killing someone convicted of murder or rape?

I'll answer yours if you answer mine, how do you feel about killing someone convicted of witchcraft, homosexuality, attacking or cursing a parent, incest, beastiality, working on the Sabbath, adultery, blasphemy, falsely claiming virginity at the time of marriage, and failure to confine a dangerous animal that results in death?

[megared]

I'm not sitting on a high horse.

I'm asking a legitimate question, whioch you in your zeal to defend the desire to remain ignorant have not answered.

How do you deal with a CONTINENT that has all of this going on in it?

If it's not witchcraft, it's tribal wars. If it's not tribal wars it's religious wars, and on and on and on and on and on. The continent of Afica is a drain on the rest of the world.

But in boiling it just down to Uganda .. You know who to blame when people aren't educated?

Them. You know who to blame when people pay a "witch doctor' to murder a child? THEM.

You blame them for their ignorance.

Anyone who's people looks to witch doctors and human sacrifice in the 21st century,, I definitely look down my nose and wonder how the hell to deal with them.

~Bang

No one is absolving some of the blame of their own conditions from them. But you live in a bubble if you don't think at one time, the western world wasn't singing their current president's praises.

Uganda having human rights abuses has as much to do the entire continent of Africa as a war in Iraq has on the rest of Asia. It's such a gross projection. Africa isn't a neighborhood. Are you aware of how big the continent is? That's the problem with people that have no working knowledge of African affairs. You assume that somehow Uganda = Congo = South Africa = Burkina Faso = Egypt. These are distinct places, with distinct cultures and histories. Why stop at Africa? why not project it onto that entire region of the world? Europe is to the north and the Middle East is attached as well. David Koresh happened at the end of the 20th century in North America...bottomline there's crazy people worldwide.

And please stop the 'how do we deal with them?', rhetoric. We really don't. How impactful are Ugandan affairs on your daily existence? They don't have oil, they aren't a threat, and have little to no international affairs.

It seems more likely that these articles are to ridicule societies/cultures different from ourselves and draw a reaction, which is exactly what you are doing. What about the other 30+ million Ugandans that live 'normal' lives? That isn't newsworthy.

[SWFLSkins]

So you don't believe God has given everyone a conscience?

Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.

I'll answer yours if you answer mine, how do you feel about killing someone convicted of witchcraft, homosexuality, attacking or cursing a parent, incest, beastiality, working on the Sabbath, adultery, blasphemy, falsely claiming virginity at the time of marriage, and failure to confine a dangerous animal that results in death?

God gave us all that and how we use it is free will, correct?

I asked first/ But I see where your going, and that is why I asked you,C/O, and as I said a sin is sin and I am not worthy to JUDGE a person who committed them as I am a sinner as well.

BTW, I enjoy our discourse, that may surprise you.