2012: Trade it all for the #1 pick(Probably Luck), even 2013 picks if needed?

[GibbsFactor]

RG3 is going to win the Heisman this year. In a blow out.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Ryan Fitzpatrick's contract is up this year....

[darrelgreenie]

Very true, because there's no time to adjust your thought-process. Instead of having four years to win you over in spite of his height, he's now got a couple of months of trash-talk about his height, because it was dropped on everyone as a surprise. It then overshadows his skill-set.

You might be right.

But then I thought of Mike Vick, but then again he could be the exception to the rule.

Vick was/is 6' standing on his tippies.

But he had the skillset to go number 1; height didn't stop him.

But then again Mike's skillset was pretty much undeniable even if you only saw him play once.

---------- Post added September-27th-2011 at 08:06 PM ----------

Ryan Fitzpatrick's contract is up this year....

But I though you had to take a QB high in the 1st round to get a QB?

Fitzpatrick isn't good its an illusion.

[SuperBash]

Let me see RGIII against a real pass defense before I jump on this bandwagon, but I like what I see so far. Looks to be able to run the WCO with a bit of ease.

[dallasfan]

RG3 is going to win the Heisman this year. In a blow out.

no he won't

Here are the last 20 heisman winners:

Cam Newton (10'), Mark Ingram (09'), Sam Bradford (08'), Tim Tebow (07'), Troy Smith (06'), Reggie Bush (05'), Matt Lienart (04'), Jason White (03'), Carson Palmer (02'), Eric Crouch (01'), Chris Wienke (00'), Ron Dayne (99'), Ricky Williams (98'), Charles Woodson (97'), Danny Wuerffel (96'), Eddie George (95'), Rashad Salaam (94'), Charlie Ward (93'), Gino Torreta (92') and Desmond Howard (91').

Looking at the list, 14 of the winners either won the national championship or played in the national championship game.

Ricky Williams and Ron Dayne won because they set the NCAA all time rushing mark (Ricky in 98', Dayne in 99), and Eddie George and Rashad Salaam were on 1 loss teams (Ohio State lost their bowl game, but had 1 loss when it was awarded).

Carson Palmer (2 losses when awarded) and Tim Tebow (3 losses when awarded) are the only 2 players within the last 20 years to win the award w/o being on a dominant team, so at minimum, Baylor would have to be 9-3 for Griffen to win it and even then it would be close.

[GWinSkins83]

Let me see RGIII against a real pass defense before I jump on this bandwagon, but I like what I see so far. Looks to be able to run the WCO with a bit of ease.

He did last year vs Texas. Which had 3 cbs drafted.

[dallasfan]

You might be right.

But then I thought of Mike Vick, but then again he could be the exception to the rule.

Vick was/is 6' standing on his tippies.

But he had the skillset to go number 1; height didn't stop him.

But then again Mike's skillset was pretty much undeniable even if you only saw him play once.

Mike Vick is definately the exception, not the rule, and while RG III is a great athlete, he's not in the same class as Vick. Another exception is the QB taken with the first pick in the second round, the same year as Vick, Drew Brees. He's 6'0, but he also imo, is the most accurate QB in the league.

[mistertim]

When will you learn. do you think Luck will be better than 7 players and another player in 13. I beat we do our draft due diligence, we don't need luck.

If Luck ends up being as good as many people think he will be (certainly not a foregone conclusion, but he definitely is one of the better prospects to ever come out it seems) then yes, IMO he would be better than those 7 players unless you get insanely lucky and end up with 3 or 4 perennial All Pro players with those 7 picks. Sorry but you just can't downplay the importance of having a top flight QB in this league.

[GWinSkins83]

Mike Vick is definately the exception, not the rule, and while RG III is a great athlete, he's not in the same class as Vick. Another exception is the QB taken with the first pick in the second round, the same year as Vick, Drew Brees. He's 6'0, but he also imo, is the most accurate QB in the league.

You can try and put RG3 down with the height but we don't know he is shorter than listed. And one can look and see he is not as short as Vick. Next RG3 has talent that can make him a star in the NFL. He is mobile, playmaker, and has a arm. He can absolutely dominate the NFL under Mike and Kyle and their system.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Sure, we can play that game all day.

There's only one game I want to play and that game ends with a bona fide starter for us. I clearly understand what sacrificing all these draft choices means. I also clearly understand that we need a QB some kind of bad. If we can get one of the top 3, whoever they end up being, I'll be satisfied.

Look, it is a bit foolish to trade away two drafts for one player. I think that a bunch of us are so damn tired of trotting out journeymen QBs that we'd go so far as to Ditka the draft this year for one.

I understand the emotion and am equally starved for a reliable, young QB. But there is a reason that emotional and reactionary personnel decisions don't typically end up well.

[darrelgreenie]

Mike Vick is definately the exception, not the rule, and while RG III is a great athlete, he's not in the same class as Vick. Another exception is the QB taken with the first pick in the second round, the same year as Vick, Drew Brees. He's 6'0, but he also imo, is the most accurate QB in the league.

I'm not saying that Griffin is in the same class as Vick.

Brees wasn't consider to have top level accuracy when he was prospect and his physical talent isn't in the same league as Griffin.

---------- Post added September-27th-2011 at 09:26 PM ----------

If Luck ends up being as good as many people think he will be (certainly not a foregone conclusion, but he definitely is one of the better prospects to ever come out it seems) then yes, IMO he would be better than those 7 players unless you get insanely lucky and end up with 3 or 4 perennial All Pro players with those 7 picks. Sorry but you just can't downplay the importance of having a top flight QB in this league.

Disagree.

The draft is as much about probability as it is about evaluation.

Anytime you pass give away a pick you give away the chance to acquire a great player.

1 pick cannot be greater then multiple picks.

Case in point trading up: the Jets traded up to get Sanchez but don't you think they would have been better off drafting Freeman and keeping the picks they traded?

Luck is a good prospect but there will be other QBs there might even be better QBs in his draft class.

When you think about what is Luck's bankable physical attribute that sets him apart?

It doesn't make sense to trade picks for Luck or anyother draft pick unless you believe in that player is all you need to win the Super Bowl.

[butzskins]

Vick? Where is he now he is hurt an will continue to be he is a running back with a strong arm not a pocket passer.He is a run first QB and we all see wh what that gets you int the NFL. HURT.

[dallasfan]

I'm not saying that Griffin is in the same class as Vick.

I know you weren't, just was pointing out the type of athleticism needed for a QB that size to succeed.

Brees wasn't consider to have top level accuracy when he was prospect and his physical talent isn't in the same league as Griffin.

Yeah, but Brees was a second round pick and really struggled until his 4th season, and appeared to be a bust

[skinsince72]

Why? So we can get JC again?

[tdigle]

Some of you are swaying me towards RGIII. Not to get off topic here, but it would be absolutely amazing if we could nab both him and Manti Te'o in next year's draft. Then, looking at 2013, we need to go for the best CB available.

[paloosa]

What a dumb thread. Three games, Grossman had a bad game as did the rest of the offense and now someone decides that we need to throw in all of our eggs into one basket for some college QB that may or may not be the answer. Andrew Luck is not the answer to what ails this team but rather a lack of execution. So what if we do that? What next? Play him right away? Let Grossman or someone else play a year while he rides the bench and learns? We will have to start him right away because we invested so heavily in him. But maybe we just don't listen to another illogical idea that will set back the franchise even more. Hell with this suggestion we might as well hire Mike Ditka or even our old friend Vinny Cerrato because only an idiot like that would make that move.

[The Fax]

Absoluteley yes. QB is the most important position on the team. With an elite QB you have a chance every game, every year. Andrew Luck is a future Hall of Famer.

[Conn]

You might be right.

But then I thought of Mike Vick, but then again he could be the exception to the rule.

Vick was/is 6' standing on his tippies.

But he had the skillset to go number 1; height didn't stop him.

But then again Mike's skillset was pretty much undeniable even if you only saw him play once.

You may very well be right. But before the draft process, was it known that he was 6'0" at the most, or was he listed as taller? That's really what we were talking about.

[tr1]

Hoping for the #1 pick encourages a losing mentality.

I'd prefer to have the last pick in the first round.

[88Comrade2000]

I posted the poll as a response to comments made by others in SHF's thread. If you read my post later down on page one; I said I was against this. I voted no. Just posting the poll for discussion.

[Taylorfan2179]

Just an FYI - Mel Kiper (one of the biggest Draft Guru's - if you want to call him that) on JaMarcus Russell before he was taken #1

---------- Post added September-27th-2011 at 04:58 PM ----------

I was stating to your claim that "USC offensive players generally suck" and arguing that Fred Davis does not, in fact, suck... that is all. No TE is worthy of a first rounder

Considering he has had 3 good games in what 3 years? I'm saying generally speaking, I have not been impressed with any offensive player out of USC with 2 exceptions. Carson Palmer and Marcus Allen. that is a very long span of nothing. I may be wrong, but thats all that comes to my mind. I'm not spot on with college to pro so maybe Im missing a lot.

[88Comrade2000]

I don´t like trading up unless you are already in the playoffs and you are really one player away from the SB (Like Atlanta did)....but I´m not that much ´in love´ with Luck. I even start to think that he might get a little hyped up. Sure he is good, but Manning like? People are talking about him like he is going to come out and just be one of the top QB's in this league. Really?

So I say noooooooooooh.

Atlanta made a mistake, They aren't one player away from a superbowl. Actually, Atlanta has never had back to back playoff seasons. They are going to be one of the biggest disappointments of 2011.

---------- Post added September-28th-2011 at 12:34 AM ----------

All those arguments change for Luck, though. Most of those teams take him if they're at #1. There are a few interesting questions if certain teams get the pick:

Jags or Vikings- Just picked a QB with a first, will they take another. Possibly, if it's Luck, but who can be sure?

Bengals- Only because they're such an insanely bad franchise, maybe they draft a K #1.

Colts- Gotta believe they take Luck, but maybe they decide Peyton is such an "icon" that they should trade the pick and build up the supporting cast for Manning's final couple of seasons.

If I were the Colts, I would find a way to trade Manning. Don't know if his contract makes it's possible. They could tell Peyton, that the Colts have decide it's time to move on and they will trade him somewhere of his choosing where he can finish his career. QBs, even ones with successful careers don't always stay with the same team at the end of their careers.

[Gurgeh]

The problem for the Colts has always been that no-one who's any good wanted to be the backup to Manning, because they'd never get a game. If they do draft Luck then you might not see Luck play for years. My guess would be they'd keep him on the bench for at least 2 years and then try to trade Manning. The Colts might be better off waiting 2 years for the next QB and using the time to address, well, everything else in their team; the drop-off in performance without Manning has shown just how good a QB he's been - makes you wonder what Manning's stats would be if he'd ended up with the Patriots for example.

Rather than focusing on the one player for a future QB I think we just need to focus on getting the best QB we can without sacraficing too much - maybe the top two picks in 2012, plus some pick from the following year. A top 5 QB surrounded by a good team will do a lot better than the number 1 QB forced to carry his squad.

[Water Boy]

Im about 100% sure that if the rams was to get the 1st overall pick, they would trade out of it. They already have sam bradford, why would they take luck?!! If it WAS the rams, than you make one heckuva deal and see if you can land it. If the shanaplan is to get him by every means necessary, ill be on board. Even if i dont think it was necessarily necessary.

Agree totally. If the Skins fans want to get back to the glory days in these days it starts with a Franchise QB. The days of picking up retread QB's are over.

[XEL]

Honestly I'm split. We've got a great defense but may need to start grooming a MLB, pending on how long Fletcher plays. Offensively, the line is holding it's own, we have a good receiving corps and a great running back trio. I prefer to keep the picks and have Shanahan work his find-players-late-magic. BUT, talent like Luck just doesn't come around very often. He's been called the best QB prospect in over 25 years and personally, I believe that when his NFL career ends, he'll be above Peyton Manning.