Kyle Shanahan via Rich Campbell: "We’re not playing to conserve the clock. You’re trying to win, & the best thing we've got to move the ball is throwing it at the time."

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Um wow.

If this is what you believe then you don't understand coaching/football at all.

Coaches certainly gameplan around the strengths of their QB and minimize plays that exposes their weaknesses.

That's coaching 101.

If your gameplan has plays that your QB can't execute then its most certainly the OC's fault and yes you lose.

Um I'm pretty sure we won against the Giants and the Cards right?

kyle has to assume that rex can make the plays he calls. thats what he was doing yesterday. he thought rex could execute, he couldnt.

you dont just punt as a coach and say, "well he sucks lets just run the ball 400 times", which if you remember wasnt working whatsoever. obviously you play to your players strengths and weaknesses, but just flat out saying "rex cant do this", he cant have that mentality, especially in the NFL.

[darrelgreenie]

kyle has to assume that rex can make the plays he calls. thats what he was doing yesterday. he thought rex could execute, he couldnt.

you dont just punt as a coach and say, "well he sucks lets just run the ball 400 times", which if you remember wasnt working whatsoever. .

Dude what are you talking about?

The only person saying Rex sucks is you.

Kyle doesn't 'assume' that Rex can make plays, he knows Rex can plays.

There is no way Kyle thinks Rex's sucks, I don't even like Rex and I don't think he sucks.

I forgot what its like trying to have a discussion with you.

You just create strawman after strawman to the point that it get tedious

Where did I say Rex sucks and because he sucks we should run the ball 400 times?

Making that claim is such a stupid way to post.

obviously you play to your players strengths and weaknesses,

It so obvious that YOU in your previous post said that coaches should just call the 'correct' gameplan and if Rex can't execute 'too bad':

kyle cant base his gameplan on the concept that his QB sucks. he calls the correct game plan, if rex cant execute, too bad, and we lose.....................and frankly, theres no gameplan anyone can execute to get rex to win,

but just flat out saying "rex cant do this", he cant have that mentality, especially in the NFL

This is a strawman of your construction.

You can argue against this point all you want; but everyone can see that it has nothing to do with anything I've posted.

-HTTR

[NavyDave]

kyle has to assume that rex can make the plays he calls. thats what he was doing yesterday. he thought rex could execute, he couldnt.

you dont just punt as a coach and say, "well he sucks lets just run the ball 400 times", which if you remember wasnt working whatsoever. obviously you play to your players strengths and weaknesses, but just flat out saying "rex cant do this", he cant have that mentality, especially in the NFL.

In otherwords, Shanny jr should not be expected to adapt to what happening in front of him because "his system works." A Cam Newton would struggle here because Shanny Jr would not gameplan to his strengths as the Panthers are doing. Then again there aren't that many strengths of Rex to gameplan for.

The cowpokes were subbing in defensive players due to fatigue and packages and not once was there an idea to go hurry up to prevent that.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

In otherwords, Shanny jr should not be expected to adapt to what happening in front of him because "his system works." A Cam Newton would struggle here because Shanny Jr would not gameplan to his strengths as the Panthers are doing. Then again there aren't that many strengths of Rex to gameplan for.

The cowpokes were subbing in defensive players due to fatigue and packages and not once was there an idea to go hurry up to prevent that.

i think hes proved his system works. it seemed to work fine in houston, we've seen flashes of what it can do here with mcnabb and grossman, so i dont know why he should be adjusting his gameplan on a game to game basis, based on which rex shows up.

this is all bunk anyways, rex is gone as soon as we draft a real QB so arguing about a sub par scrub QB is not much fun (as far as back and forths go), as anyone with a half a brain knows hes not any sort of long term answer for this team. i hope he does as well as he can but bottom line is, he pretty much sucks.

[Commander -JB-]

The Redskins weren't running the ball effectively early & im sure some fans were crying "throw the ball" & then when he throws because the run game wasn't working at all they cry "run the ball!". Its a double edged sword & everybody blames the playcalling when it doesn't go your way. Guys dont execute. Im not saying I haven't questioned some of the mans playcalls, however, I think he has been a good playcaller thus far this year. The whole "sky is falling/whining %&@#$" mentality is horrible.

[NavyDave]

i think hes proved his system works. it seemed to work fine in houston, we've seen flashes of what it can do here with mcnabb and grossman, so i dont know why he should be adjusting his gameplan on a game to game basis, based on which rex shows up.

Yeah the Good Rex Bad Rex phenomenon.

this is all bunk anyways, rex is gone as soon as we draft a real QB so arguing about a sub par scrub QB is not much fun (as far as back and forths go), as anyone with a half a brain knows hes not any sort of long term answer for this team. i hope he does as well as he can but bottom line is, he pretty much sucks.

True and while I did admit back in the spring that I could accept drafting and filling in key position sans QB, while hoping that we suck (not tank) enough to Luck out in the 2012 draft. That did not men I wanted to lose to the cowpokes but a split with the iggles and a victory at Fed Ex against the cowpokes while still being able to the next Elway / Peyton Manning would be sweet but highly unlikely.

[KCClybun]

The Redskins weren't running the ball effectively early & im sure some fans were crying "throw the ball" & then when he throws because the run game wasn't working at all they cry "run the ball!". Its a double edged sword & everybody blames the playcalling when it doesn't go your way. Guys dont execute. Im not saying I haven't questioned some of the mans playcalls, however, I think he has been a good playcaller thus far this year. The whole "sky is falling/whining %&@#$" mentality is horrible.

Never once have I ever heard a fan go "why are we running the ball?".

Nor am I saying the sky is falling. I'd rather have Kyle Shanahan over a whole lot of coordinators in the league. I think he's aggressive, and he has some great concepts. Out of the young coordinators who will become head coaches eventually--Greg Olsen down in Tampa Bay, Schotty in New York for the Jets, Jay Gruden one day, probably, even a Jason Garrett---I'd want no one but Kyle. I think he has a great mind for football and is an up and coming coach who will be great down the line, if not for us, for someone else.

...That said, there are still times where youth can be a disadvantage. That's why I said it's a lack of maturity. It's not a lack of smarts, it's not a lack of a system, it's not a lack of talent. It's just a lack of understanding sometimes. An inability to get out of his own way and just keep it simple.

Like...like the shovel pass, early in the game.

We've run that shovel pass, I think, three or four times since Kyle has been here. It never, EVER works. We're not fooling anyone with it, especially not an experienced defense like Dallas. The negative play off the shovel pass, in the red zone...why? I mean, I think we wound up getting a first down after that, but still. That wasn't the time and place for it. And seeing as how that play and the end around have never worked here, you'd think he'd kind of chuck it.

Running Cooley on 3rd and short? Yeah, I don't mind that, I thought it was a ballsy, gutsy call that I was impressed with, along with Cooley really doing well in that H-Back role. Wouldn't mind seeing more formations like that. But then, running with Cooley AGAIN on 3rd and short, when the defense is sort of expecting it? Yeah, not so much.

And continuing to pass, when it's late in a game, and you know your team is struggling to get it in the end zone...

Just...sometimes it pays to keep it simple, is all I'm saying.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

NLC, I was wondering why we were running the ball from the 10 on the first two plays right after we recovered that fumble. I think we were far too conservative in the red zone.

[MrJL]

all this talk about plays Grossman can't make. He can make 20 and 30 yard passes easily.

[SirClintonPortis]

Daddy needs to ground Kyle for a week and cut off his allowance.

[NoVaSkins21]

If your "playing to win", and so aggressive; why are you so conservative inside the 20?

Hail.

Exactly. WTF was that :pooh: after Dallas turnover inside the 10. Run, run, pass? Go for the kill there. :mad: I think us Skins fans need to prepare ourselves for a lot of WTF moments as far as the offensive playcalling is concerned for the rest of this year.

[jayneal7]

Kyle play calls like a buffoon with a lead. Painful.

[terrifNick21]

Ok. People call Jim Harbaugh an idiot for taking the 3 points last week to give the 49ers a two possession lead instead of accepting the penalty and running more clock and possibly NOT scoring, yet they bash Kyle for essentially doing what you called Harbaugh an idiot for NOT doing? :rotflmao: Wow.

[SirClintonPortis]

Ok. People call Jim Harbaugh an idiot for taking the 3 points last week to give the 49ers a two possession lead instead of accepting the penalty and running more clock and possibly NOT scoring, yet they bash Kyle for essentially doing what you called Harbaugh an idiot for NOT doing? :rotflmao: Wow.

Um, I'm sorry, but I think people are asking for Kyle to Riggo drill in the fourth quarter to eat clock. That's EXACTLY THE SAME THING people were skewering Harbaugh for not doing.

[terrifNick21]

Um, I'm sorry, but I think people are asking for Kyle to Riggo drill in the fourth quarter to eat clock. That's EXACTLY THE SAME THING people were skewering Harbaugh for not doing.

No. Harbaugh was being conservative i.e. taking the FG and declining the penalty. Kyle was agressive.

[KCClybun]

NLC, I was wondering why we were running the ball from the 10 on the first two plays right after we recovered that fumble. I think we were far too conservative in the red zone.

Which was weird, because in the preseason, whenever we got a turnover, it seemed like right away we tried to go for the big play.

Our play action pass game works well even if we don't run the ball well because teams have to respect Hightower and Helu's ability to make plays. The touchdown in the red zone? Play action pass. Last week, Fred Davis' touchdown catch? Play action pass. Big plays? Play action pass.

Aggressive on the drive, and then weirdly conservative in the red zone. Won't get it done.

[SirClintonPortis]

No. Harbaugh was being conservative i.e. taking the FG and declining the penalty. Kyle was agressive.

It's okay to have conservative or aggressive tendencies. But neither should have the force of law should the situation not be suitable for such a call. The principle Harbaugh and K. Shanahan are being [or should be] bashed by is being completely oblivious to situational football.

[Jumbo]

This post is in response to some of the posts I read in threads not about Kyle or his play-calling, yet the posters were seriously slamming his performance.

While I'm no supplicant to the "appeal to authority" argument, it's amusingly typical that we have a good pro football coach like Chucky commenting all throughout the game on Kyle's play-calling and giving it a big thumbs-up, and we have seen (if paying attention) a number of pros (not just media heads; football people) rating Kyle as solid and growing in his position, and we have all the relevant, and very real, other limitations of this team and organization, especially being early in the 2nd year of a new system with lots of personnel turnover, current personnel shortcomings (like experience in many cases--i.e. new O-line gelling) and obvious needed change yet to come (likely at the key QB spot), but here we have guys calling Kyle out in the most definitive terms as a real problem.

In most games other than really dominant ones for a given team, any numbers of plays "go bad" for that team, obviously, and on both sides of the ball. And in most of those cases, fans watching TV hardly have a clue as to what happened in total context that made it so. They see the flashy tips of the iceberg and are, at best, helped along by commentators. Then they leap even from what they can ascertain to the really hard to know aspects of play-calling critique, and do so with assuredness.

Those fans love to post on message boards, and a big reason may be that it sure as hell is the closest they'll ever get to anyone in the football world listening to their expertise.

And here they get paid exactly what it's worth. :pfft:

Using critical thinking and evidence, I don't think Kyle's play-calling is any kind of a real problem for this team. The body of evidence suggests his past success was "real" (according to his former coworkers and players) and that he's doing pretty well at this early point in the second year of this system with the tools at his disposal.

And that claim neither is refuted by, or made in denial of, the valid contention that he and the team have a long way to go to become anything like a top team in this league (which is the standard we should hold). Speaking of tools, I now yield the floor to the play-calling experts, and I are not one.

[KCClybun]

I'm not trying to argue that Kyle isn't a good coordinator. Like I said before, I wouldn't want any other young coordinator in football right now. I love the scheme, for the most part. I think the playcalling through the first two weeks has been pretty spot on.

My issue is that we got away from what really helped us win the first two games. Davis is non factor. We abandon the run game. We don't try to run time off the clock. Some of the choices we made in the red zone were confusing and didn't make much sense. We need to keep dancing with what bought us 2 wins, and that's running the football, and throwing the football off play action. And for the love of God, keep throwing the ball to Fred Davis.

[Mooka]

Were you all watching the same game as I was?

We certainly weren't grinding out any first downs on the ground. We would've gone 3 and out and everyone would be ****ing about Kyle sitting on a 1 point lead.

[Jumbo]

Were you all watching the same game as I was?

We certainly weren't grinding out any first downs on the ground. We would've gone 3 and out and everyone would be ****ing about Kyle sitting on a 1 point lead.

Yup. Again, while I hardly regard myself some armchair expert in play-calling, this game seems easy to "defend" re: Kyle's calls. Hence I made my post more general.

[MartinC]

Um, I'm sorry, but I think people are asking for Kyle to Riggo drill in the fourth quarter to eat clock. That's EXACTLY THE SAME THING people were skewering Harbaugh for not doing.

Riggo and the Hogs retired quite a few years ago now - the days when we could grind out first downs at will to burn the last 6 minutes off the clock went with them. We averaged 3 yards a carry against Dallas - run, run, pass punt was not the way to go with a one point lead away from home. We played to win which I liked and on the last drive we had while leading we made a couple of first downs, burnt over 3 or 4 minutes and changed the field position. That's a decent drive in those circumstances.

If the defense gets off the field on 3rd and 21 we are not even having this conversation.

[addicted]

I'm fine with us coming out throwing the ball, but we completely abandoned the run at the same time. So instead of clock burning drives, we had 3 and outs which only took seconds off the clock.

And this is important,

That 3 and out after we scored got the Cowboys defense rested

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Riggo and the Hogs retired quite a few years ago now - the days when we could grind out first downs at will to burn the last 6 minutes off the clock went with them. We averaged 3 yards a carry against Dallas - run, run, pass punt was not the way to go with a one point lead away from home. We played to win which I liked and on the last drive we had while leading we made a couple of first downs, burnt over 3 or 4 minutes and changed the field position. That's a decent drive in those circumstances.

If the defense gets off the field on 3rd and 21 we are not even having this conversation.

That's essentially how I see it in a nutshell. If people really believe that running the ball would have yielded a better result when we had the ball up 16-15, I believe they are being intellectually dishonest. We moved the ball from inside our 20 to inside the Dallas 45 and chewed up some clock. One more first down and we are probably hitting a FG to put us up 4. The play that stopped our momentum was the one-yard run from the Dallas 45 yard line on first and 10. That FORCED us into a passing situation which led to a sack and eventual punt.

[addicted]

lol, the OC should know the limitations of his QB.

If the OC puts the game in the hands of a QB knowing that QBs limitation its that playcallers choice.

Therefore if/when their QB fails the OC shares the blame for putting the game in the QB hands.

Very well put

And this is the reason I've thought that it wasn't just the Offensive Cordinator who lost us this game

It was the Defensive cordinator who cost us this game