The potential value of keeping only 2 QB's but 7 WR's

[@DCGoldPants]

Listening to a lot of Sportstalk the past week, there have been a few callers suggesting that there is no need to keep 3 QB's on the active roster considering the current situation. Instead, the smart move would be keeping 2 and a QB on the PS and give that extra spot to a WR who will also be playing special teams.

At first I wasn't really sure about this. But after seeing Clemens with the 3rd stringers....I am starting to agree. If we lost both Beck and the Sex Cannon in the same game, we've got bigger issues than not having a true QB come in to finish the game.

HOWEVER...an extra WR who also plays special teams could help out a lot despite the struggles of Danny Smith's coverage teams.

When camp started there were questions about Banks and Austin possibly not being on the final roster. I know Banks is banged up...but I say "Why not both?" Or...if not Banks (because I think Austin is going to be too hard to cut), then him Niles Paul who otherwise would end up on the PS.

Not all our WR's can play teams. But we all know that NO QB's can do it.

So..... there is my rare stadium thread (I know I posted recently about a feather tattoo).

Lastly, if you live in a hurricane area. Stay safe today. If the rain is flying sideways and you can hear the wind. That Mickey D's run probably isn't worth it.

OH....and by the way. If the Steelers were to cut Dennis Dixon. I would prefer picking him up as the #3 and then going with 6 WR's.

[terpskins10]

Given the new 3rd QB rule, I'd be all about signing a former college QB who is a WR now in the NFL and have him available for wildcat/trick plays. That way we have our gameday third stringer but get to keep an extra WR.

[@DCGoldPants]

Question is.....do you HAVE to keep a 3rd QB on your roster? If you don't. Do you lose that spot on the active roster? Or can you use it for another position. I haven't heard anybody address this.

[braindx]

I agree with "keeping" 7 WR... but that is only if Banks isn't put on IR. Otherwise, we keep 6.

Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Austin, Hank, then Banks/Paul. Robinson can go to PS.

Don't forget that of the 53 active players on the roster, only 47 suit up for game day anyway. So if you have an "extra" WR they may just be sitting on the bench anyway; the other player we would keep as a DB most likely would be sitting on the bench as well.

[Octane67]

If you have 2 QB's go down in a game odds are we are not gonna win that one....

I like the idea, not like we are trying to hide some huge talented QB or even have a prospect to develop.

[SuperDaveVA1975]

I love the idea also but im clueless about the new 3rd QB rule? If it was under last season rules id say keep only 2 qbs and save that roster spot for a rb or wr or cb.

[SWFLSkins]

If you have 2 QB's go down in a game odds are we are not gonna win that one....

I like the idea, not like we are trying to hide some huge talented QB or even have a prospect to develop.

Good point, and especially with the thrid QB coming in to get slaughtered.

[rebornempowered]

There really needs to be a rule that allows teams to protect drafted players for a year on the practice squad. I am of the opinion that the Redskins should keep Niles Paul and Hankerson (obviously) but Paul will play teams and Hankerson won't. I think Hankerson will be a better WR but this season he is just going to be taking up roster space.

[@DCGoldPants]

Personally, with a league as rich as the NFL. I don't understand why gameday and overall rosters aren't much bigger right now. Gameday should be closer to 60 with your developmental guys getting special teams reps. The overall roster should be closer to 70+ including PS.

[Darth Tater]

Question is.....do you HAVE to keep a 3rd QB on your roster? If you don't. Do you lose that spot on the active roster? Or can you use it for another position. I haven't heard anybody address this.

Technically, you don't have to have any QBs on the roster. In fact, using old school terms, any time you are in a spread shotgun, there is no qb on the field, the guy throwing the ball would be called a TB. In a wildcat, technically, the QB would be the guys lined up behind the OL on the strong side. Remember, Sammy Baugh? He did not play QB until 1945.

[jpillian]

Personally, with a league as rich as the NFL. I don't understand why gameday and overall rosters aren't much bigger right now. Gameday should be closer to 60 with your developmental guys getting special teams reps. The overall roster should be closer to 70+ including PS.

I think that's a great point. No idea why they only have 53 players on the roster.

[texasthunder]

There really needs to be a rule that allows teams to protect drafted players for a year on the practice squad. I am of the opinion that the Redskins should keep Niles Paul and Hankerson (obviously) but Paul will play teams and Hankerson won't. I think Hankerson will be a better WR but this season he is just going to be taking up roster space.

If I remember correctly we do have the option to match contracts another team gives our PS players, which could in effect keep them with the Redskins. And concidering they are buried that deep on our depth chart, then they are not going to move to a starting role with another team. But that is all to be determined by how much value our FO puts on those players.

I do like the OP's reasoning in regard to keeping WR's, and really like the idea of signing Dennis Dixon as a 3rd qb.

Kellen C. has not impressed me at all, and maybe I am expecting more, but this guy is not mobile and not accurate, and he has been a starter in the NFL. Wow.

[Laxpunk2006]

Technically, you don't have to have any QBs on the roster. In fact, using old school terms, any time you are in a spread shotgun, there is no qb on the field, the guy throwing the ball would be called a TB. In a wildcat, technically, the QB would be the guys lined up behind the OL on the strong side. Remember, Sammy Baugh? He did not play QB until 1945.

Interesting bit of knowledge. What did TB stand for? Could make for some good trivia some day.

[Est.1974]

I also brought up the notion of carrying 2 QB earlier today, to accomodate an extra WR/RB/FB-TE type player. I was thinking of a guy like Keiland Williams in this situation, trying to see where, if anywhere, he fits in now.

I think Shanahan has done this before, ie carried 2 QB's, so I wouldn't rule this out.

With regards to the 3rd QB rule changing, It was noted that it would help guys like Tebow, who could be brought in in specific red-zone situations, then taken out of the game allowing say the #2 QB back into the game. Perhaps a guy like Terrelle Pryor also benefits from this rule down the road...

Time to go re-sign ARE again...

PS - I concur with the stay safe sentiment. Hope you all remain safe over the coming days. :helmet:

[Darth Tater]

There really needs to be a rule that allows teams to protect drafted players for a year on the practice squad. I am of the opinion that the Redskins should keep Niles Paul and Hankerson (obviously) but Paul will play teams and Hankerson won't. I think Hankerson will be a better WR but this season he is just going to be taking up roster space.

Well, when they had a real IR, rosters were smaller but the use of IR for extending your roster was an abuse to easy to do. Slots 47-53 are the roster slots for such action due to making IR unavailable for such action. There is limited protection given to you for the guys on the PS, however, I would like the ability to at least assign a guy directly to the PS (maybe pay him full) on the last cut date and not have to take him through waivers.

---------- Post added August-27th-2011 at 10:55 AM ----------

I think that's a great point. No idea why they only have 53 players on the roster.

47 was the roster size when IR emphasized the reserve and often ignored the injured part (basically 2 deep at every position plus a kicker, a punter and a 3rd QB although you actually could use that extra as you saw fit and you usually carried just 8 OL, so you could go deeper elsewhere). Slots 48 to 53 were added to make up for the fact that you could no longer extend your roster via the IR. To a lesser degree, that's pretty much the why of the PS.

[HigSkin]

I like the idea. With the way the NFL protects QB's you don't need 3 on your active roster. I also don't think it necessarily needs to be for 7 WR's, RB's and DB's could be a bigger need.

[Darth Tater]

Interesting bit of knowledge. What did TB stand for? Could make for some good trivia some day.

TB is the tail back. You could also say that QBs like Cam Newton and Blaine Gabbert, who also operated from the spread shotgun, rarely played QB in college (the spread shotgun was probably developed in the 1920s but the earliest playbooks I've seen were Dutch Myer's from when he coached Baugh, in any case, its a pretty old formation).

[wildbill1952]

The third QB rule was pretty simple. Note the "was". It was dropped for 2011.

From Wikipedia:

The full text of the rule was:

Teams will be permitted an Active List of 45 players and an Inactive List of eight players for each regular-season and postseason game. Provided that a club has two quarterbacks on its 45-player Active List, a third quarterback from its Inactive List is permitted to dress for the game, but if he enters the game during the first three quarters, the other two quarterbacks are thereafter prohibited from playing.[3]

Although it is not specifically indicated, the NFL had interpreted its rule to mean that in order to designate a third quarterback, the two on the active roster must both be "bona fide" quarterbacks, not other position players merely designated as quarterbacks.

The third quarterback rule was instituted for the 1991 NFL season in reaction to a 1990 game between the Washington Redskins and Philadelphia Eagles. In that game—sometimes called "The Body Bag Game"—Redskins lost both starting quarterback Jeff Rutledge and backup Stan Humphries to injuries. Without a third quarterback on their active roster, Washington had to either use a different player for that position or forfeit the game. Brian Mitchell, a running back who played quarterback in college, completed the game in the quarterback position. The Redskins lost to the Eagles, 28-14.[4]

The rule was abolished for the 2011 season. There will be no third quarterback exception and the active roster will be increased by 45 to 46.

That article references this article. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/nfl-drops-third-quarterback-rule-46-active-players-on-game-day/

Click the link for the rest of the article but here's the start of it:

With everyone focusing on how the league’s finances will change for the 2011 season and beyond, little attention has been paid to the rules changes that will affect the teams on game days. But one change that the owners and players to agree to will come into play on Sunday afternoons.

The owners and players have agreed to expand game day rosters from 45 to 46 active players. The No. 3 quarterback will no longer be an “emergency” inactive player.

In other words, a team can insert its third-string quarterback for a short period at any point in the game, then take him out and put the starter back in. Previously, the first and second quarterbacks couldn’t re-enter the game if the No. 3 quarterback played before the fourth quarter.

That rule came up most prominently last season when the Bears bungled the backup quarterback situation in the NFC Championship Game. After starter Jay Cutler went down and backup Todd Collins struggled, Bears coach Lovie Smith inserted No. 3 quarterback Caleb Hanie into the game just in time for him to hand off twice in the third quarter. Smith’s decision to put Hanie in the game in the third quarter instead of waiting for the fourth meant that if Hanie had suffered an injury, the Bears would have been without a quarterback for the rest of the game.

So, if it isn't obvious from the above, there are now 46 men for game day rosters, there is no longer a 3rd QB rule and lastly, but most important to this discussion, there are still only 53 men on the roster, seven of whom do not suit out on gameday.

[Darth Tater]

Personally, with a league as rich as the NFL. I don't understand why gameday and overall rosters aren't much bigger right now. Gameday should be closer to 60 with your developmental guys getting special teams reps. The overall roster should be closer to 70+ including PS.

How about no roster limit but one naturally enforced by the cap (ie, all players on the active roster count towards the cap)?

[cc4life07]

I like thinking about 7 WRs but I think there is a little difference of opinion of who the 7 WRs are. My version would be : Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Hankerson (those 4 are guaranteed), Austin, Banks, and Stallworth.

Now, that is not necessarily the order as I think Austin has played better than Hankerson but he will NOT go to the PS. He would get picked up before he made it that far so he's a guarantee for the active roster. Now, I know Stallworth may be the stretch but he has looked consistent and it still a decent receiver that could fill in if needed. Niles Paul to me is the question mark....he could fill in for Banks (if he goes on IR or anything) or Stallworth. He hasn't showed anything special this preseason and has a possibility to "sneak" maybe...into the PS. If we go 6 WRs then Stallworth/Paul is probably the odd man out.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Too risky,

Who takes over at QB if you lose both your recognised ones, and maybe early in the game. Cooley? Does he spend all day handing off and thus making it an easy game for the opposing D?

In a game as violent as this, you just NEVER know when injury will strike. And with the greatest of respect to them, the O-line still has it ALL to prove going forward.

No, I wouldn't want to go with only 2 QB's out of 53 players. WAY too risky a situation on game day now the emergency QB rule has gone.

Hail.

[Jericho]

There seems to be a lot of confusion of the new rules, but I think wildbill1952 summed it up nicely

Old Rule: 53 man roster, 45 active, inactive "3rd QB" can enter the game under certain conditions

New Rule: 53 man roster, 46 active, no other rules

As to the original post, i see no reason to keep three QBs. The general paradigm is bona fide starter, capable back-up, young guy to develop. The Redskins have neither a bona fide starter or a young guy to develop. The team hopes someone steps up to become a bona fide start (most likely Beck). But there's no young QB here (outside of Chappell who hasn't played at all and won't do better than practice squad). Why keep three similar QBs? Grossman, BEck, and Clemens all were once highly drafted. Neither Clemens or Beck has played much. All are between 28-31.

The argument to keep Clemens is either: (1) if Beck and Grossman get hurt; or (2) because Clemens is good and will develop. As to the former, if Beck and Grossman go down, mine as will live with it as the team is going nowhere. As to the latter, its possible Clemens actually is better than Grossman or Beck. But is it worth keeping Clemens over a promising young player simply because Clemens might be a decent NFL back-up? It's widely believed this team will draft a young QB next year. So one of these guys will be gone. Odds and preseason point to Clemens. If the coaching staff is not that impressed with him, what's the point of keeping him?

[da#1skinsfan]

This is a no brainer, Clemens is no better than anyone we could pickup off the street. Get a young guy or undrafted FA who played a similar style offense in college, put them on the PS and instead keep Royster or Stallworth on the active roster.

[bowhunter]

Wonder If Lorenzo would be willing to learn the QB position as well

[tibbidoe]

I agree with "keeping" 7 WR... but that is only if Banks isn't put on IR. Otherwise, we keep 6.

Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Austin, Hank, then Banks/Paul. Robinson can go to PS.

Don't forget that of the 53 active players on the roster, only 47 suit up for game day anyway. So if you have an "extra" WR they may just be sitting on the bench anyway; the other player we would keep as a DB most likely would be sitting on the bench as well.

I've been trying to find out for awhile now: What is the point of gameday inactives? Why not just have 53 active players available?