worstSeat Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you haven't read Malcolm Gladwell, he's the guy who wrote The Tipping Point, the book that explains, among other things, why keeping the subways in NYC worked to reduce crime where wars on specific, high-level crimes didn't. He's writing about the NBA on Grantland, Bill Simmons' thought-experiment at ESPN, but mentions Snyder as the anti-rational owner: But most of all professional sports owners don't have to behave like businessmen. For every disciplined and rational operator like the Patriots' Robert Kraft or Mark Cuban, there is also someone like Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder. Snyder was a brilliant entrepreneur, who at the age of 36 sold Snyder Communications — the marketing company he built from scratch — for an estimated $2 billion. He has subsequently run the Redskins like a petulant 14-year-old fantasy owner. Actually, it's not very Snyder-bashing at all, at least not as a businessman. Snyder Communications was a business. The Redskins are a toy. The former he ran to solely maximize profit. The latter he runs for his psychic benefit — as a reward for all the years he spent being disciplined and rational. I'd really like to see Gladwell and ASF go at it for a while. Anyhow, thought it was interesting reading about the owner. 'Psychic Benefits' and the NBA Lockout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The book is halfway right. Snyder RAN (past tense) the Skins like a fantasy team - with Vinny Cerrato. He runs (present tense) the Skins like an actual football franchise now - he lets Allen and Shanahan make the decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worstSeat Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 The book is halfway right. Just to be clear, the book is The Tipping Point, and is what made Gladwell famous back in 2000. These quotes are from his article freshly posted to Grantland called "'Psychic Benefits' and the NBA Lockout," where he essentially compares a racist Red Sox owner from the 50s with Snyder and art collectors. His main point is that rational businessmen make irrational choices in other arenas, including their behavior with sports teams. Apparently a study suggested that 28% of the "value" of a piece of artwork is psychic benefit only ("I'm a refined, cultured schmoe who just spent $100 million on a painting that's really only worth $72 million as a collector's item because of the status and irrational happiness it gives me!"), and Gladwell suggests that sports owners do the same sort of thing with their teams. They overpay for teams not to make money from them, but to feel awesome about themselves. They're elite. [And the corollary is that the NBA owners need to STFU about losing money. The NBA isn't a business qua business. It's like buying a painting. Owning a team isn't about making money, Gladwell argues. The implication, of course, is that NBA players need to clue and remind owners that they're more like actors than sales clerks. If the NBA isn't making enough money, it's because professional sports team ownership isn't about profit either. It's about mental/psychological rewards for owners. Another implication: Simmons, please, stop asking Stern why teams still sell. It doesn't mean owners expect to make money off of them. It's like you're asking asking why Picassos still sell for millions to rich schmoes. It's not simply because the rich stand to make cash. It's so that they can tell their friends, "Hey, schmoer schmoe, I own a Picasso. Suck on it."] Honestly, though Skins Buckle Wearing Danny must gain some sort of benefit from owning the team, I'm not sure I see his getting lucky with Snyder Comm a result of being brilliant (ASF would have to back me up here, I guess) nor his approach to the Redskins primarily driven by something other than profit. From afar, he seems the easy example of a rational businessman going mad with a sports team, but what those of us who know more about Snyder really see is a guy who ain't a great, ethical businessman without a lot of help. And yes, I too hope Bruce & Mike can be that help. Still, interesting to see a pretty big name in pop-academia weigh in on the NBA, and then use our favorite team's owner as his paradigmatic example of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, psychically-driven, wacky owners. Cuban seems to get a pass -- wonder if it's because he really does seem to treat his players well or because he's [now] won. I think we can safely say Gladwell isn't the most knowledgeable sports fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Nothing new here, this has been common knowledge for years. But as Hitman said, Snyder has changed for the better, the grownups are finally in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worstSeat Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Nothing new here, this has been common knowledge for years. But as Hitman said, Snyder has changed for the better, the grownups are finally in charge. What's new is that Snyder's rep is being used (and I argue miused) by a dude as influencial as Gladwell to represent irrational, status-seeking, union busting owners. Snyder has become a whipping boy by "the" pop-academician as he's trying to make what's otherwise an interesting point on labor in professional sports. Or, perhaps, folks think Snyder deserves it. But then I like Bill Simmons and am intrigued by Grantland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Levi Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm kinda sick of talking about Dan Snyder, pro or con. I don't like him, I think he's been a terrible owner, and it boggles my mind that there are Redskins fans who defend him. That being said, I just want him to stay the hell out of the way, and stay out of the press. Out of sight, out of mind. He's obviously not going anywhere, but I'm totally sick of the whole discussion. If he can lay low for a decade or two that would be fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 " For every disciplined and rational operator like. . . Mark Cuban" That's where the author lost all credibility. ---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 11:54 AM ---------- I'm kinda sick of talking about Dan Snyder, pro or con. I don't like him, I think he's been a terrible owner, and it boggles my mind that there are Redskins fans who defend him. That being said, I just want him to stay the hell out of the way, and stay out of the press. Out of sight, out of mind. He's obviously not going anywhere, but I'm totally sick of the whole discussion. If he can lay low for a decade or two that would be fine with me. I couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 " For every disciplined and rational operator like. . . Mark Cuban" thought i was the only one who had to read that part twice. before this year, i thought everyone considered him a goof. now he's disciplined and rational? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The book is halfway right. Snyder RAN (past tense) the Skins like a fantasy team - with Vinny Cerrato.He runs (present tense) the Skins like an actual football franchise now - he lets Allen and Shanahan make the decisions. I want more data before I proclaim that he has fully changed the way he runs the team. For now, things look good but he's only 2 years into this "new managerial style". Let's see if he sustains it long-term and, more importantly, after Shannahan leaves. ---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 12:11 PM ---------- thought i was the only one who had to read that part twice.before this year, i thought everyone considered him a goof. now he's disciplined and rational? I don't think so. He is an impulsive attention-whore. I wouldn't use Cuban to compare/contrast Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool as Crud Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm kinda sick of talking about Dan Snyder, pro or con. I couldn't agree more. You can always just ignore the thread. That's what thread titles are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Let's see Jerry Jones has done a lot of damage with Dallas. He bought the team, fired Tom Landry. If it wasn't for Jimmy Johnson and the Herschel Walker deal the Cowboys would have never even been close..I'll admit that is the only difference between Snyder and Jones and it is a big difference but then Jerry and Jimmy can't share credit and Jimmy leaves (Jerry Jones was fool.). Costing the Cowboys possibly another 2 Superbowls not including the one they would have also won with JJ that they did with Switzer....LMAO..I thank Jerry everyday for that fiasco...seriously! All the while Snyder has grown as an owner and even had a few squads the media hyped could win the SB!!...Now Snyder has a legit GM and HC but it still continues. it's laughable. When the media lambastes Jerry day in and day out forever then I will start to listen to what they might have to say. But their biased rhetoric wears thin and no longer bears any resemblance of the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Jerry Jones is the next Al Davis in waiting Excellent point AzSkinsFan63 I predict sooner rather then later that the media starts giving Jerry the negative attention he is deserved For example of what I mean... The Redskins take too much crap about the 2008 draft we bombed. The negativity is deserved however I can't help but wonder to myself where is the same level of negativity shown to Dallas for it's abysmal 2009 draft which happened two years ago? Dallas in 2009 drafted 12 guys and out of that group has only found one starter. Who was pick #172 and is a Kicker. If your not familiar with this have a look at this hot smelly pile of crap http://bleacherreport.com/articles/571787-dallas-cowboys-2009-nfl-draft-review And then please anyone can you justify why that crap happened only 2 years ago and no one holds the Cowboys to the level of scrutiny of drafting failures that we are held to for an older draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you haven't read Malcolm Gladwell, he's the guy who wrote The Tipping Point, the book that explains, among other things, why keeping the subways in NYC worked to reduce crime where wars on specific, high-level crimes didn't.He's writing about the NBA on Grantland, Bill Simmons' thought-experiment at ESPN, but mentions Snyder as the anti-rational owner: Actually, it's not very Snyder-bashing at all, at least not as a businessman. I'd really like to see Gladwell and ASF go at it for a while. Anyhow, thought it was interesting reading about the owner. 'Psychic Benefits' and the NBA Lockout Who is this guy? What has he done to make him an expert on the subject? Robert Kraft is a crook in my opinion. Anyone that just sits back and allows his coach to get caught cheating is in on it also. Mark Cuban is a in your face type of guy always whining about how his team is getting picked on until he won a championship and maybe it was due to Stern giving him that bone to just shut him up. Dan Snyder ran his team like a fanatasy owner and it didn't work out for him But what if all those things would have worked out for him? Would he be hated as much as he is? I say yeas. Because the NFl has never accepted Snyder as a real owner because he wasn't their first choice to have buy the team. The owners wanted JKC's son to keep it but his father knew that his son wouldn't had been a good owner otherwise he would have let his son run it long before he died. No, Dan Snyder is not a saint but he is viewed even worse than Paul Brown for what? Trying to make his team better no matter what it takes? If that is what they hate about him then I am glad to have them. At least you know where he stands on winning. If you think he is worse than Paul Brown then you don't need to be a fan of Washington's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The Cowturds have won three super bowls under Jerruh's tutelage; so he probably gets a free pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Levi Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You can always just ignore the thread. That's what thread titles are for. Thanks! I had NO IDEA! How do you ignore threads? ---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 12:50 PM ---------- Let's see Jerry Jones has done a lot of damage with Dallas. He bought the team, fired Tom Landry. If it wasn't for Jimmy Johnson and the Herschel Walker deal the Cowboys would have never even been close... And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon. Long story short, Jones has won THREE super bowls, and his team makes the playoffs often. Sorry but you can't mention him in the same breath as Snyder, they are not even in the same ballpark as far as successes go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool as Crud Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Thanks! I had NO IDEA!How do you ignore threads? I ignore threads by looking at who started it. When it says Crazy Levi, I move on. Everyone has their own method. Your results may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worstSeat Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Who is this guy?... No, Dan Snyder is not a saint but he is viewed even worse than Paul Brown for what? Trying to make his team better no matter what it takes? If that is what they hate about him then I am glad to have them. At least you know where he stands on winning. If you think he is worse than Paul Brown then you don't need to be a fan of Washington's. Malcolm Gladwell's a pretty popular dude in nonfiction publication. I linked to his Wikipedia page earlier. He's got some pretty major cred when it comes to why collectives do something. I missed where Gladwell said Snyder was worse than Brown. The point was just that Snyder was supposed to be a brilliant businessman (rly?) and bought the team more to be a plaything than an investment. I find that exceptionally backwards, but still, interesting that a guy who should be smart enough to figure out better (Gladwell), saw Snyder as the archetype for arguing that many owners are Dr. Jekyll in their business lives Mr. Hyde in their pro sports ownership. " For every disciplined and rational operator like. . . Mark Cuban"That's where the author lost all credibility. Maybe. You might not think Cuban is rational, but he does take care of his players, stay loyal to/be an advocate for them (though I've got to remember how the Nash deal ended up happening), and now, he's won. Ultimately, that is how you measure disciplined and rational. They don't win and the Kidd trade looks horrible. But, as it turns out, it worked. etc etc The reason why there's so much Snyder fatigue on this board, I think, is the way Snyder threads are so quickly reduced to a referendum on the team's record since he's been an owner. The thing I thought was interesting here wasn't whether Shanallen is working or Snyder's changed, but the way he's perceived in the avant garde sports press. To use him as the example for psychically motivated but brilliant business people who choose to buy into a major league sports team seems a strange choice for a NY Times bestseller like Gladwell. Oh well, sorry it wasn't all that interesting after all. Honestly, the Snyder/Gladwell/Grantland confluence is a pretty neat one. I didn't buy that Snyder works within Gladwell's schema here, and wondered if others saw the same disconnect. (But you really gotta RTFA to understand the question.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Anonymous Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I love how now Cuban is in there with Bob Kraft in their minds. It's like they think we're too stupid to remember when they were comparing Snyder and Cuban as horrible ******* owners. Whatever, the media can shove it. If Danny saved a drowning boy from the Potomac, they'd rip the fact that he saw the boy drowning because he cut down trees to see the potomac. This just in - he's an *******. This just in - so are the other 31 *******s who own teams. And what is with this deification of Bob Kraft, anyways? His team cheats; he's a falling down drunk and an emberassment to the league every time he opens his trap. Nope, Bob freaking Kraft is Jesus. Bob Kraft is a lifelong Patriots fan who got exceedingly wealthy and bought his favorite sports team. Even before the PAts were winning the SB, they treated him with kid gloves. Dan Snyder was a lifelong Redskins fan who got exceedingly wealthy and bought his favorite sports team. Other than the rings gained from cheating, what seperates the two? Danny should be more like Bob Kraft. From here on out Danny needs to start drinking at 6am and hire some "security" guys from CIA headquarters to stalk the NYG, Eagles, and Cowboys so he can be like Our Lord and Savior Almighty and All-knowing and All Drunk and All Powerful Lord Kraft of Foxborough. Kneel before King Kraft. Kneel... I should point out that Dan has been an utter joke, but he is hardly the only comedian owner playing this club. And for what it's worth; he's done what we asked the last two years and let the football people do their thing. That's why I still stand up for the guy when I read tripe such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMeast Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The book is halfway right. Snyder RAN (past tense) the Skins like a fantasy team - with Vinny Cerrato.He runs (present tense) the Skins like an actual football franchise now - he lets Allen and Shanahan make the decisions. So far ... so good. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Zoony wants to do things to Malcolm Gladwell's hair. Naughty things. Unspeakable things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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