Kyle Shanahan's comments on the 2010 offense

[addicted]

The Bucs game. 150+ rushing yards in the first half, only to basically abandon the approach in the second half.

In the first half of the season man

My point is that the Pass to Run ratio for the entire year was off because of how it took forever to find someone productive to run the ball

DG just wants to ignore how the first half of the season hurt that stat

You can't ignore game plans, you can't ignore personnel, you can't ignore anything

Is this just a whinny poster saying "Run the damn ball, you don't run it enough" without looking at any of the facts that might have concluded us to run less?

That's what I read

Point is you can want one thing and have another and ignore that

How we started is not how we finished. Only looking at a ratio stat for the entire year will fudge up the stats and not tell the whole story

[darrelgreenie]

In the first half of the season man

My point is that the Pass to Run ratio for the entire year was off because of how it took forever to find someone productive to run the ball

DG just wants to ignore how the first half of the season hurt that stat

You theory is plausible but again there are a bunch of plausible theories behind our resultant pass/run ratio.

But, again your diatribe has very little to do with my question in the OP.

You can't ignore game plans, you can't ignore personnel, you can't ignore anything

You're doing it again with the assumptions.

Of course gameplan, personnel etc have an effect on the pass/run ratio; I never said it didn't.

Is this just a whinny poster saying "Run the damn ball, you don't run it enough" without looking at any of the facts that might have concluded us to run less?

That's what I read

Well you often read what you want to read regardless of the actual post.

My OP asked a question and included a statement from Kyle Shanahan saying that one of his main objectives was to run the ball more and to run the ball better.

Or is Kyle being too whinny?

Point is you can want one thing and have another and ignore that

You can want one thing and have another.

But to use you terminology if want one thing and end up with another maybe you didn't do what you had to do to get what you wanted?

How we started is not how we finished. Only looking at a ratio stat for the entire year will fudge up the stats and not tell the whole story

Huh?

Your just begging the numbers.

The ratio is what it is, you can explaining it away and rationalize as much as you want but the stats in this case don't lie.

[Hitman21ST]

We ran the ball more, and our offense looked completely different.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Yup, a majorly refreshing step in the right direction H21ST.

Still a lot of work to do when it comes to third downs and red zone scoring; but meh, they've not so much as practiced in pads as yet so that will hopefully improve as they go. The massive increase in runs was a major step forward and hopefully a sign of way more balanced playcalling going forward,

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

So far so good.

Regardless of the reason it appears that at least for preseason Kyle is sticking to his words from the OP.

The offense looks more like Mike's traditional Denver WCO then at any point last year.

Balance in the run/pass, bulk of the passing game stems from boot-action.

There was even diversity in the run game:

o HB draw

o Pump fake pass HB draw

Pitches are tough, as you said the defensive speed in the NFL is ridiculous but the back has to have great vision too. I'm confident the running game in 2011 is going to be more diverse with Helu/Torain/Hightower leading it.

o I even saw my favorite runnning play called for Draughn (sp?) toss/sweep right

[darrelgreenie]

I'm glad we're playing a team that's good against the run.

Imo the most important aspect of this team will be the running game.

It will be a good test how our ZBS will work against one of the better run fronts in the league.

Equally important, at least for me, this game will test how much Kyle will commit to the run. (maybe because then again it is only preseason)

Its easy to run when it 2nd and 5 or less.

But, it much harder to call a run on 2nd and 8.

A good sign came against the Colts.

Hightower runs on 1st down for a gain of 1 or 2 yards.

Kyle called another run and Hightower break off a 40+ yard run.

Last year I have my doubts about wether Kyle calls that second run last year.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm glad we're playing a team that's good against the run.

Imo the most important aspect of this team will be the running game.

It will be a good test how our ZBS will work against one of the better run fronts in the league.

Equally important, at least for me, this game will test how much Kyle will commit to the run. (maybe because then again it is only preseason)

Its easy to run when it 2nd and 5 or less.

But, it much harder to call a run on 2nd and 8.

A good sign came against the Colts.

Hightower runs on 1st down for a gain of 1 or 2 yards.

Kyle called another run and Hightower break off a 40+ yard run.

Last year I have my doubts about wether Kyle calls that second run last year.

This game (and this offseason) showed a commitment to the run that imo was absent last year.

We ran the ball 26 times @ 2.8 ypc; the ypc numbers aren't pretty but the number of attempts is gorgeous.

As on old coach told me 'I'll run it into a brick wall if I have too'.

Running the ball is like any relationship its not always easy and sometimes sticking even when it doesn't appear to be working/smoothly is neccesary to reap the benefits i.e. 8 in the box and play action passing.

My only complaint is with the creativity of the run plays themselves.

As creative as Kyle is with the passing game he's conversely vanilla in the run game.

It to my eye mainly consisted of Singleback outside zone stretch.

And IIRC maybe 1 inside lead zone from I-form.

In my heart of hearts I would like to see a bit more diversity in the run game.

A few traps, a few draws and a few toss/pitch.

But, I'll gladly settle for 25+ carries.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

DG,

I commend KS for sticking to the run, but I agree with you that I think we can switch it up a bit. I know that our personnel is built for the stretch play, but I saw us run the ball up the gut just as well, if not better, on the last drive when we were running out the clock. Obviously the Giants knew we were running and we still picked up a first down or two before having to punt. In fact, the runs up the middle were probably the biggest gainers of the entire second half. I wonder if we could sprinkle in some more of those during the course of the game so that defenses have to defend the entire field.

[darrelgreenie]

DG,

I commend KS for sticking to the run, but I agree with you that I think we can switch it up a bit. I know that our personnel is built for the stretch play, but I saw us run the ball up the gut just as well, if not better, on the last drive when we were running out the clock. Obviously the Giants knew we were running and we still picked up a first down or two before having to punt. In fact, the runs up the middle were probably the biggest gainers of the entire second half. I wonder if we could sprinkle in some more of those during the course of the game so that defenses have to defend the entire field.

Re:Cards game.(I hope someone will post the vids)

IIRC there was more inside zone and inside trap/pulls w/ Lichtensteiger pulling from (L) to ®.

I even recall a couple of lead draws.

I would still like us to be a little more run focused, but I'm learning to accept that we're a passing team.

[daveakl]

Re:Cards game.(I hope someone will post the vids)

IIRC there was more inside zone and inside trap/pulls w/ Lichtensteiger pulling from (L) to ®.

I even recall a couple of lead draws.

I would still like us to be a little more run focused, but I'm learning to accept that we're a passing team.

I think we need to accept that the league as a whole is a passing league.

[darrelgreenie]

I think we need to accept that the league as a whole is a passing league.

It may be a passing league, but it doesn't have to come at the expense of balance.

---------- Post added September-24th-2011 at 07:11 PM ----------

“We weren’t as balanced as we wanted to be last year, not even close. I think we’re doing a better job of that this year....”

^^^^I love it when Kyle talks this way!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-showing-more-balance-on-offense/2011/09/24/gIQAef6atK_blog.html#pagebreak

[SkinsFTW]

I think they will run the ball a lot early to slow down Ware and the pass rush, like they did against the Cards when they were rushing Grossman on every pass play in the 2nd quarter.

[DieselPwr44]

It may be a passing league, but it doesn't have to come at the expense of balance.

I agree. You cannot be one dimensional in this league and expect to win anything of consequence.

Look at the Eagles. Andy Reid has no interest in running the ball. He's most happy with a 70-30 pass run ratio and what has that gotten them?

One Super Bowl appearance in his 12+ year tenure there.

So glad that we're putting more emphasis on the run than we did last year.

[Larry]

This game (and this offseason) showed a commitment to the run that imo was absent last year.

We ran the ball 26 times @ 2.8 ypc; the ypc numbers aren't pretty but the number of attempts is gorgeous.

As on old coach told me 'I'll run it into a brick wall if I have too'.

Running the ball is like any relationship its not always easy and sometimes sticking even when it doesn't appear to be working/smoothly is neccesary to reap the benefits i.e. 8 in the box and play action passing.

My only complaint is with the creativity of the run plays themselves.

As creative as Kyle is with the passing game he's conversely vanilla in the run game.

It to my eye mainly consisted of Singleback outside zone stretch.

And IIRC maybe 1 inside lead zone from I-form.

In my heart of hearts I would like to see a bit more diversity in the run game.

A few traps, a few draws and a few toss/pitch.

But, I'll gladly settle for 25+ carries.

I'm with you.

Heck, I thought Marty didn't run the ball enough.

[Laxpunk2006]

DG,

I commend KS for sticking to the run, but I agree with you that I think we can switch it up a bit. I know that our personnel is built for the stretch play, but I saw us run the ball up the gut just as well, if not better, on the last drive when we were running out the clock. Obviously the Giants knew we were running and we still picked up a first down or two before having to punt. In fact, the runs up the middle were probably the biggest gainers of the entire second half. I wonder if we could sprinkle in some more of those during the course of the game so that defenses have to defend the entire field.

I don't disagree that our running game could use a bit more diversity but it worth considering that maybe those between the tackle runs late in the game were successful because of the early stretch runs. Beyond the idea that maybe the defense begins to bias itself towards stopping a stretch run, all of that lateral movement tires a defensive line quickly. Linebackers and safeties are accustomed to going sideline to sideline but the defensive line is not. On inside runs they can anchor and close gaps. On stretch runs they are forced to run and move laterally. Over the course of a game the defensive line will become exhausted and that is hopefully when the longer runs start to appear. New York has the benefit of a deep defensive line even with the injuries they sustained but the majority of the teams we play will not. It wouldn't surprise me to see some big fourth quarters for our running game this season, if we can remain committed for four quarters.

[darrelgreenie]

http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandlers-real-redsk/2011/09/did-the-redskins-abandon-the-run.html

Did the Redskins abandon the run?

By Rich Tandler

......................Second half

27 plays

7 runs for 24 yards, 3.4 yards per carry

20 passes for 112 yards, 5.6 yards per pass play

It gets really out of whack here. Dallas had a substantial advantage in time of possession as they held the ball for about 18 minutes to around 12 for the Redskins. Let’s look at the individual drives to see where it got that way.

Redskins get the ball at own 24 9:31 left in third quarter game tied at 9

5 runs (all Hightower) for 20 yards, 4.0 yards per carry

4 passes (all complete) for 56 yards, 14 yards per pass play

This is the touchdown drive, a nice mix of Rex Grossman passes and Tim Hightower runs. Kevin Barnes’ interception gave them possession and it looked like they were going to take control of the game after the scored on Grossman’s one-yard pass to Hightower to take a 16-9 lead with 4:00 left in the third.

Redskins get ball at own 25 0:14 left in third quarter leading 16-12

3 passes, all incomplete

This is where the chatter about too many passes started. After a solid, balanced drive, the Redskins burn all of 30 seconds off of the clock and punt it away to the Cowboys.

Redskins get ball at own 10 13:03 left still leading 16-12

1 run (Helu) 3 yards

3 passes (1 complete) 15 yards

The Redskins do get out of a hole at their own 10 with a 15-yard first-down pass from Grossman to Jabar Gaffney. But from the 25 it’s Helu for three yards (where’s Hightower?) and then two incompletions, one shallow and one deep.

Redskins get ball at own 17 6:58 left leading 16-15

1 run (Helu) for 1 yard

5 passes (3 complete, 1 sack) for 24 yards plus a 15-yard penalty

To be fair here, the passes were working initially. A screen to Helu picked up 14 yards and then Grossman went to Chris Cooley for four yards and then to Moss for six. A 15-yard personal foul was tacked on to Moss’ catch and the Redskins were at the Dallas 44 nearing field goal range. It falls apart when Helu runs for one and then Grossman is sacked for a loss of eight. The third and 17 pass has no chance and the Redskins punt

[darrelgreenie]

When it comes to offensive production, the Redskins are striving to find a balance between running and passing the ball. The team has thrown the ball 143 times and run it 122 times, meaning 53.8 percent of its plays are through the air and 46.2 percent are on the ground.

The Redskins are seventh in the league in proportion of run plays called (Houston is first, at 54.8 percent, followed by Jacksonville, Oakland, San Francisco, Minnesota and Kansas City). Conversely, that puts them at 26th in proportion of pass plays called.

But it also means that Washington is the sixth most-balanced team in the league through four games. The 7.6 percent differential is behind all of the aforementioned teams but Houston; Minnesota, which has called 112 run plays and 111 pass plays, is clearly the leader.

http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2011/10/05/a-look-at-the-numbers-how-balanced-is-the-redskins-offense/

Without a doubt Kyle is doing better then he did last year.

I know he likes to pass and has great concepts in the passing game.

But we don't have the personell especially at the QB position to put the game in the hands of the QB like Kyle wants.

Heck, even Houston who does have the personnel both at QB and WR to air it out is the most balanced offense in the league, which ironically is in true keeping with Mike Shanahan's Denver WCO roots.

[Win4us]

Wasn't there a story about back in the day we were playing the turds and the o-line pretty much told the play to the defense right beforehand...and still had a decent gain? That's the level I want our team to get back to eventually with o-line improvement. It's awesome when errrbody in the stadium knows a run is coming and still get 5+ yards on it.

[darrelgreenie]

Wasn't there a story about back in the day we were playing the turds and the o-line pretty much told the play to the defense right beforehand...and still had a decent gain? That's the level I want our team to get back to eventually with o-line improvement. It's awesome when errrbody in the stadium knows a run is coming and still get 5+ yards on it.

Without elite talent up front along the OL its gonna be impossible to just line it up and run 40gut over and over again.

But, if an offense can mix up the running game they can keep the defense off balance then they can have success.

There are run plays that complement each other.

There are inside runs that complement outside runs, there are draws, pitches and tosses.

A great example was 3rd and 1 vs the Cowboys Kyle called a fake FB dive RB toss/pitch it was a great playcall that resulted in a 1st down.

They expected an inside run and we gave them an outside run.

But the run still worked.

[Floodzone004]

Without elite talent up front along the OL its gonna be impossible to just line it up and run 40gut over and over again.

But, if an offense can mix up the running game they can keep the defense off balance then they can have success.

There are run plays that complement each other.

There are inside runs that complement outside runs, there are draws, pitches and tosses.

A great example was 3rd and 1 vs the Cowboys Kyle called a fake FB dive RB toss/pitch it was a great playcall that resulted in a 1st down.

They expected an inside run and we gave them an outside run.

But the run still worked.

I remember I yelled yes when they ran that play. Absolutely brilliant decision. That play gave me a lot more faith in the potential of a balanced, creative Kyle offense.

[Win4us]

Without elite talent up front along the OL its gonna be impossible to just line it up and run 40gut over and over again.

But, if an offense can mix up the running game they can keep the defense off balance then they can have success.

There are run plays that complement each other.

There are inside runs that complement outside runs, there are draws, pitches and tosses.

A great example was 3rd and 1 vs the Cowboys Kyle called a fake FB dive RB toss/pitch it was a great playcall that resulted in a 1st down.

They expected an inside run and we gave them an outside run.

But the run still worked.

My fingers are crossed that 2 of our first 4 rounders next April go towards a guard and RT to eventually get us that stud line again.

Didn't see the game but know and love the play you're referring to. Seems to work pretty good on weakside pitchout when it's ran too.

[darrelgreenie]

My fingers are crossed that 2 of our first 4 rounders next April go towards a guard and RT to eventually get us that stud line again.

^^I think that every draft & FA.

Your fingers to Bruce Allen's desk.

Didn't see the game but know and love the play you're referring to. Seems to work pretty good on weakside pitchout when it's ran too.

Look at the WR holding their blocks!

---------- Post added October-6th-2011 at 09:18 AM ----------

Needless to say he gets the 1st down and then some, coulda broke it.

[Fight for ole DC]

Wasn't there a story about back in the day we were playing the turds and the o-line pretty much told the play to the defense right beforehand...and still had a decent gain?

I think you might be referring to a story about Russ Grimm in Redskins/Cowboys game when he was matched up against Randy White and mauled White repeatedly, even telling him we would run right at him. I love the story! It brings back fond memories of the Hogs and how we used to pound on teams with the run game.

I would love to see us run the ball more when we have a lead in the 2nd half. I thought it was mistake to throw the ball as much as we did last week after the success running with Torain. The Rams had no answer to our run game yet we let them back in the game because we did not run the ball enough.

Trying to defend the coaches, I assumed they saw something the Rams were doing that led them to call so many pass plays (a match-up they liked, extra defenders to stop the run, etc.) instead of running it down their throats. Who knows? I don't know enough about coaching to have an answer and I think the view on the TV does not always show enough for viewers to see exactly what is going on with the defense. The TV usually only shows the area around the line of scrimmage with the defensive backfield out of view.

[Win4us]

^^I think that every draft & FA.

Your fingers to Bruce Allen's desk.

... pics...

Needless to say he gets the 1st down and then some, coulda broke it.

Yep that's the one. Looks fantastic when executed properly. Appreciate the pics you through in for visual aid as well.

Here's to Shanallen piecing us an 0-line from hell starting with the next draft.

---------- Post added October-6th-2011 at 11:16 PM ----------

I think you might be referring to a story about Russ Grimm in Redskins/Cowboys game when he was matched up against Randy White and mauled White repeatedly, even telling him we would run right at him. I love the story! It brings back fond memories of the Hogs and how we used to pound on teams with the run game.

I would love to see us run the ball more when we have a lead in the 2nd half. I thought it was mistake to throw the ball as much as we did last week after the success running with Torain. The Rams had no answer to our run game yet we let them back in the game because we did not run the ball enough.

Trying to defend the coaches, I assumed they saw something the Rams were doing that led them to call so many pass plays (a match-up they liked, extra defenders to stop the run, etc.) instead of running it down their throats. Who knows? I don't know enough about coaching to have an answer and I think the view on the TV does not always show enough for viewers to see exactly what is going on with the defense. The TV usually only shows the area around the line of scrimmage with the defensive backfield out of view.

I believe you're correct on Grimm pwning White all day. Would absolutely love to start hearing stories like that again in the near future.

Not 100% sold on the whole zone blocking scheme yet but that's just my opinion. I'd much rather we had 330lb maulers across the line but as long as we get the yardage and points on the ground it's definately just as good.

Kyle just needs to listen to his old man on ground game tutoring and the benifits that come with it. As Darrelgreenie pointed out a few posts above we'll have to mix and match playcalls until we get that beast line again.

[cphil006]

They do seem to cherish the run a lot more this season... Time of Possession has been key and we've been great with it so far this season...