Art Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Om, you are a master. I love the way you write, as well as your points. I totally agree.Art as far as overpaying, I do not think we do, as much as we used to. Case in point, we worked out a deal for Jenkins, wanted more money, and we told him to take a hike. Rumors of us and Jenkins appear vastly overstated. We all thought we were in the heavy petting stage with Jenkins, then pulled out and signed Bowen in a minute. In fact, the first person we contacted in free agency was Bowen and we had been working with him the whole time. I have ZERO doubt we were possibly looking at Jenkins, but due to age and injury issues, we were looking at him for less than we gave Bowen. And his side may have tried the typical, "Going to Washington," thing to see if it could drive his price up. Turns out he was always option two for us and we weren't playing his game with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Rumors of us and Jenkins appear vastly overstated. We all thought we were in the heavy petting stage with Jenkins, then pulled out and signed Bowen in a minute. In fact, the first person we contacted in free agency was Bowen and we had been working with him the whole time. I have ZERO doubt we were possibly looking at Jenkins, but due to age and injury issues, we were looking at him for less than we gave Bowen. And his side may have tried the typical, "Going to Washington," thing to see if it could drive his price up. Turns out he was always option two for us and we weren't playing his game with him. Great insight, thanks Art. Again though, the perception of going to the Redskins to finish out your career and get a big payday is changing...is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I I see no way he gets cut. Santa was signed because Skins lost out on Holmes. I was surprised at this move because it goes against the new "under 28" direction. Skins are gong to have a tough time getting to "53." I predict alot of signings of "old" skins are just for TC purposes. Sellers, Doughty, Horton, Moore, McIntosh as well as Moss will be on the "bubble" and likely to be "cut candidates" when push comes to shove. Injuries during TC will play huge part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Moss is too old, has lost a few steps and is injury prone. My guess is that he will pull a hammy and Mike will get fed up.I see Clemens winning the QB battle and throwing to the young studs. This is a development year until they grab a "franchise" QB in 2012 Draft. Makes no sense to keep him ... contract guaranteed only for one year at relatively low level ... Austin, Robinson and Banks all can play out of slot. I'm amazed at how Redskins fans undervalue Tana. Just last year he had 90 catches and over 1100 yards - thats one of the better receiving years in franchise history. Yes he may have lost a step from when he was 24 but he can still get behind most corners in this league and consistently gets open. Working out of the slot he will still be one of the more productive receivers in the league. As for pulling a hammy he has missed very few games in his time as a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Haven't we heard this before? How about Spurrier's second season? How much better the team would be with Zorn in year two, etc. I'm not drinking the Kool-aid any more. I'm looking forward to years 3-4 under Shanny (hopefully he'll last that long) and root against the Eagles in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm amazed at how Redskins fans undervalue Tana. Not a question of liking Tana cause of his productivity. Its a question of what's best for team. Skins not going anywhere this year without "elite" QB. They will finish 4th in NFCEast. Why play an over-the-hill player just to add to his stats? Instead they should play and develop the younger guys. Santa sucks off meaningless reps by taking playing time away from the rookies. When you have a YOUTH movement ... you've got to be non-sentimental. I love Santana ... but its time to pass the baton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 If we had a well known QB in town that people respected, then there would be optimism. There isn't. Neither Beck nor Grossman have the panache to wrangle support. So in a QB league, when you don't have either a definite starting QB or a "QB of the future" that you are grooming, then obviously there are going to be question marks. The only thing to do now is to wait and see what happens. I am predicting that the defense is going to be better than folks expect, and the offense will be average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Not a question of liking Tana cause of his productivity. Its a question of what's best for team. Skins not going anywhere this year without "elite" QB. They will finish 4th in NFCEast. Why play an over-the-hill player just to add to his stats? Instead they should play and develop the younger guys. Santa sucks off meaningless reps by taking playing time away from the rookies. When you have a YOUTH movement ... you've got to be non-sentimental. I love Santana ... but its time to pass the baton! But if Tana can be productive for the next 3 maybe 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Preach on OM. I've been saying this for the past week or so, the team message coming out of Redskins park right now is refreshing to hear. No longer is it about Portis/Haynesworth/McNabb but rather it is about a group of individuals improving together. Shannahan is instilling a necessary belief in his football players for any team to be successful and that is that no one is above the team. ---------- Post added August-4th-2011 at 11:24 AM ---------- Not a question of liking Tana cause of his productivity. Its a question of what's best for team. Skins not going anywhere this year without "elite" QB. They will finish 4th in NFCEast. Why play an over-the-hill player just to add to his stats? Instead they should play and develop the younger guys. Santa sucks off meaningless reps by taking playing time away from the rookies. When you have a YOUTH movement ... you've got to be non-sentimental. I love Santana ... but its time to pass the baton! Why does playing younger guys help their development? Jim Zorn was handed a HC job after being a QB coach and was way in over his head, having that opportunity to develop actually turned out to drastically slow his development. Now rather than possibly being an OC somewhere Jim is back to being a qb coach. I'd argue that coaching players and ensuring their 100% adequately prepared to enter into the game before they ever see live action, could easily have a much more positive impact on their development than say a rookie WR going through a shortened training camp and then being thrown at the wolves week 1. Point being throwing someone in over their head will lead to an some impact on said persons development, but it could easily be negative. Let's let Hankerson get some work in against nickel/dime backs/safeties before we expect him to face up against Nnamdi. As far as are other young WR's go they'll most likely be put on PS and elevated if it becomes necessary much like Austin last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Point being throwing someone in over their head ... could easily be negative.Yea ... but so what ... its not as if the Skins are contending for a Playoff spot. Given the rebuild state of the Skins ... you play the odds that playing the youngsters will help ... not hinder! At least for some. See AA last year. I would love to see at least two from the group consisting of Hankerson, Paul, Robinson or Austin emerge this year. Playing Tana will only reduce these odds. Of course, if the Skins go 4-0 before the bye ... I might reconsider! It should only happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan4life83 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Santa was signed because Skins lost out on Holmes. I was surprised at this move because it goes against the new "under 28" direction.Skins are gong to have a tough time getting to "53." I predict alot of signings of "old" skins are just for TC purposes. Sellers, Doughty, Horton, Moore, McIntosh as well as Moss will be on the "bubble" and likely to be "cut candidates" when push comes to shove. Injuries during TC will play huge part. I still see no real way he gets cut. Barring a catastrophic injury during preseason he will be here and more than likely finish out his career in Burgundy and Gold. No way Shanahan doesnt keep some Vets on this team for the regular season. If John Beck is our starting QB, which I think he will not be, then it probably wont matter much. But I see Rex starting and Moss having another great statistical year. As I said before Shanny has always had nothing but high praise for Moss and I dont see him keeping a bunch of unproven rookies over a established guy like Santana. ---------- Post added August-4th-2011 at 03:26 PM ---------- Point being throwing someone in over their head ... could easily be negative.Yea ... but so what ... its not as if the Skins are contending for a Playoff spot. Given the rebuild state of the Skins ... you play the odds that playing the youngsters will help ... not hinder! At least for some. See AA last year. I would love to see at least two from the group consisting of Hankerson, Paul, Robinson or Austin emerge this year. Playing Tana will only reduce these odds. Of course, if the Skins go 4-0 before the bye ... I might reconsider! It should only happen. Shanny will have a mixture of Vets and young guns. I dont see him starting a bunch of guys who have done nothing in the NFL with the hope they produce. Keep the Vets so they have someone to learn from, which will make their transition easier IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yea ... but so what ... its not as if the Skins are contending for a Playoff spot. Given the rebuild state of the Skins ... you play the odds that playing the youngsters will help ... not hinder! But you don't know if it will help/hinder it's a gamble. In my opinion it would be better to "hedge" my bets by ensuring every player is 100% fully prepared before they see the field. I want my players reacting not thinking, putting a player in situations where they don't have a high probability of success could cause players to be thinking about what they're doing. At least for some. See AA last year. AA is a perfect example of Shannahan playing the best many for the job and not the house-hold name veteran. Once AA showed Shanny he was ready for playing time, he got it. I would love to see at least two from the group consisting of Hankerson, Paul, Robinson or Austin emerge this year. That's not very realistic. The hit rate throughout the entire draft isn't much higher than 50% IIRC, hoping 2 of the 4 mid-late rd draft picks -- 3 of which are rookies -- will "emerge" this year, might lead to some serious disappointment. Playing Tana will only reduce these odds. Of course, if the Skins go 4-0 before the bye ... I might reconsider! It should only happen. Playing Tana does multiple things. 1.) Eases the rookies in, as I've said I don't think it's smart to have Hankerson facing off against opponents #1's ie Nnamdi (who's now in our division).. I'd rather let him get in some work against a NB/Safety allow him to get comfortable and build some confidence, and then when Moss/AA/Gaffney go down with an injury Hankerson will be ready to step up. 2.) He can serve as a mentor both through his words, and through example. Almost every coaching staff to come through here has touted Moss and his practice ethic. 3.) Allows the coaches to evaluate other positions. If you're #1 WR is supposed to run a post but runs a slant, the entire play design is botched. Having a consistent Santana as our #1 will assure that the coaches can focus on fine-tuning their own play-book as well as evaluate other players, specifically WR/RB/QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Skins are gong to have a tough time getting to "53." I predict alot of signings of "old" skins are just for TC purposes. Sellers, Doughty, Horton, Moore, McIntosh as well as Moss will be on the "bubble" and likely to be "cut candidates" when push comes to shove. Injuries during TC will play huge part. You are high. Sellers may get cut. We didn't sign our own vets just to cut them. No organization would do that, because players pay attention and won't re-sign with an organization that does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 We didn't sign our own vets just to cut them. Don't be so sure ... the guys I called out are so marginal ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Don't be so sure ... the guys I called out are so marginal ... We didn't sign our own vets just to cut them. No organization would do that, because players pay attention and won't re-sign with an organization that does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewk78 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 more hot air as usual. wish owners could be fired. gone on for far to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudechain Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Don't be so sure ... the guys I called out are so marginal ... I don't think I would say Santana Moss is marginal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Moss cut? now thats some funny stuff right thar, ya know! With a good QB like Manning{ Peyton} Moss would be a yearly pro-bowler, IMO. I could see him easily getting 1500+ yds and 15+ TD's, and I'm sure Shanny knows this too; nothing worse than letting a WR with his skills go to another team and tear it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMeast Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Fantasic piece OM. I think Gibbs II brought that sense of team back to DC, but it was hendered mostly due to the lack of talent and proper front office. Gibbs is/was a leader of men. He can take the crappiest group of nothings and make them winners. He took the 'Skins to the playoffs twice during a four year run and that's more than anybody else has been able to do. I think Shanahan is part of the same ilk, but he has a proper front office to better attain his/our/their goals. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I don't think I would say Santana Moss is marginal. You are entitled to your opinion ... but so am I. In the context of the Skins rebuilding program (YOUTH Movement), and Santana's age, declining skills, and chronic injury vulnerability ... and propensity to drop passes at clutch moments ... he is quite marginal. Putting sentiment aside I would rather play Austin and Robinson in his spot. There would be little or no loss in production in doing so ... and the reps will help develope these youngsters now!. Santana had his day (who can ever forget the Dallas Monday-night game and the Brunell bombs!) But ... on a rebuilding team ... he is superfluous. Please don't kill the messenger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudechain Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You are entitled to your opinion ... but so am I.In the context of the Skins rebuilding program (YOUTH Movement), and Santana's age, declining skills, and chronic injury vulnerability ... and propensity to drop passes at clutch moments ... he is quite marginal. Putting sentiment aside I would rather play Austin and Robinson in his spot. There would be little or no loss in production in doing so ... and the reps will help develope these youngsters now!. Santana had his day (who can ever forget the Dallas Monday-night game and the Brunell bombs!) But ... on a rebuilding team ... he is superfluous. Please don't kill the messenger! propensity for injury? They guy has only missed four games since 2006. Not sure where you get the dropped passes from, but I can't say I have seen him drop more in comparison to other wide receivers. I also don't agree with his skills declining as much as you allude to. The guy caught 93 passes last season on a horrible offense. Sure I would like to see the younger guys get in there, but the is a short off-season. Receivers notoriously take some time to develop, and there's a chance guys like Austin simply don't progress. Still trying to figure out why a team would cut him when they just resigned him to a 3yr contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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