merge please... how would you identify Obama politically

[Baculus]

Your expectations are your own affair. Those are the choices given. He is not center or center left IMO. The only other choices are right, Chaves left or Far Left. It is what it is.

Actually, my expectations are shared by millions of Americans. They aren't solely my affair. And you no made effort to backup your assertion. I can only conclude that your judgment is based upon rhetoric while avoiding on-the-ground facts which others have discussed on this thread.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

No, it is accurate. The Romney plan was modeled after the Dole plan, which the Republicans offered as a compromise to Hillarycare.

Yuuup.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_06/024280.php

But as long as the GOP keeps pushing this, I'm inclined to remind them that the individual health care mandate is a Republican idea. It was always a Republican idea, ever since it started gaining traction in GOP circles in the 1970s.

Indeed, this isn't an idea Republicans were willing to tolerate in years past as part of negotiations with Democrats, but rather, this was an idea Republicans came up with.

The roster is pretty long of prominent Republicans who've either endorsed the individual mandate, voted for a plan with an individual mandate, co-sponsored legislation with an individual mandate, or all of the above. It includes George H.W. Bush, Richard Nixon, John McCain, Bob Dole, Mitt Romney, Scott Brown, Orrin Hatch, Chuck Grassley, Bob Bennett, Tommy Thompson, Lamar Alexander, Lindsey Graham, and Judd Gregg, among others.

[Baculus]

Yuuup.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_06/024280.php

They will deny that until the cows come home. I've mentioned this on countless occasions, but Gingrich, just two, maybe three years ago, called the individual mandate a "responsibility mandate."

Even when the GOP get their way, they stomp their feet and scream.

[HBnotBlades]

On an international political scale Obama would be right-center, but on an American scale he's left-center. Thus, I voted center.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Has nothing to do with ideology. If you have 70 - 80% of the country supporting tax increases on the rich, that looks to me like it's the centrist position.

And what will that number be when the tax man finishes soaking the Rich and comes knocking on the middle class I wonder? 70 - 80% will not be the number. The numbers will be 100% against it. No, it's not right.

I really dislike this argument because you imply since it doesn't solve the whole problem, why should we do it at all? Because without those increases, you get more pain on the middle class and the poor. I have no idea why we should cut medical care for the elderly, or food stamps for the poor, while allowing millionaires to keep their $100K tax break. Not only do I think the economics of that is poor, but it's immoral as well.

I don't imply, I am straight out saying it won't work. Why should only a certain segment of America be forced to pay for this and the rest skate? The problem here is not going to be solved by taxing the Rich. Why should me and mine suffer when the solution proposed will not even fix the problem? What is immoral here is that you think it's OK for other people to take what does not belong to them. The money is not yours and it's not the Governments. The money belongs to those who worked for it.

The entire tax code needs to be reformed, but as part of this, the rich need to see their taxes go up. It's absurd they can pay a 15% rate on most of the income they earn.

Meanwhile, 50% of America pays no Federal Taxes at all. Yeah, absurd is exactly the right word. Perhaps the solution is to increase taxation on the rich as much as you like but in turn, whatever that percentage ends up being, that same tax increase should be passed on to everybody who is paying nothing. That would give you the desired tax increase on the rich and would also bring in much needed revenue to pay down the debt. We could say that the taxes that are collected off of those increases can only be used to pay down the debt. Perhaps that might be a good compromise.

No, it is accurate. The Romney plan was modeled after the Dole plan, which the Republicans offered as a compromise to Hillarycare.

No, it's not. The Romney plan is not the same as Obamacare. Also, it was not the Dole plan, it was the Health Equity and Access Reform Act of 1993 and that was created by John Chaffee. However, it was never ratified, nor was it ever scored or voted upon. I.E., it was not a Republican Position because many in the Republican Party did not support it. Obamacare and the Health Equity Reform Bill were not the same. In the HERB of 1993, it was not mandatory to participate. In Obamacare, it is.

---------- Post added July-14th-2011 at 10:04 AM ----------

Actually, my expectations are shared by millions of Americans. They aren't solely my affair. And you no made effort to backup your assertion. I can only conclude that your judgment is based upon rhetoric while avoiding on-the-ground facts which others have discussed on this thread.

Conclude what you will. He's Far Left in my opinion. You and your millions of Americans can accept that or don't. It's not going to change my opinion one way or the other.

[Prosperity]

Conclude what you will. He's Far Left in my opinion. You and your millions of Americans can accept that or don't. It's not going to change my opinion one way or the other.

Good to see you're opinions aren't burdened by such trivial things like "reality" or "truth"

seriously, though, it is refreshing to see people actually admit they won't change their opinion. It saves everybody a lot of time.

[twa]

http://www.smartassproducts.com/images/blog/ObamasFriends.jpg

iL_BkIG9RNI

:pfft:

[Teller]

Good to see you're opinions aren't burdened by such trivial things like "reality" or "truth"

seriously, though, it is refreshing to see people actually admit they won't change their opinion. It saves everybody a lot of time.

I think philosophically, he is very far left. But again, in practice that hasn't been the case. And I respect that a lot.

Also, to LKB's points about his foreign policy; I think that's been the most pleasant surprise of this administration. For someone who was painted as completely incapable of dealing with such things, he's done masterful job, IMO.

[twa]

I think philosophically, he is very far left. But again, in practice that hasn't been the case. And I respect that a lot.

Also, to LKB's points about his foreign policy; I think that's been the most pleasant surprise of this administration. For someone who was painted as completely incapable of dealing with such things, he's done masterful job, IMO.

Well the Middle East hates him more than W....I guess we can count that as a plus

[Teller]

Well the Middle East hates him more than W....I guess we can count that as a plus

I don't get that impression at all. Or maybe it's just not being reported. I don't know.

[twa]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100096840/bush-trumps-barack-in-the-arab-world-president-obama-is-proving-an-embarrassing-flop-in-the-middle-east/

According to the report’s author, the Democrat adviser James Zogby:

After improving with the election of Barack Obama in 2008, U.S. favorable ratings across the Arab world have plummeted. In most countries they are lower than at the end of the Bush Administration, and lower than Iran’s favorable ratings (except in Saudi Arabia).

… While many Arabs were hopeful that the election of Barack Obama would improve U.S.-Arab relations, that hope has evaporated. Today, President Obama’s favorable ratings across the Arab World are 10% or less. Obama’s performance ratings are lowest on the two issues to which he has devoted the most energy: Palestine and engagement with the Muslim world.

The Zogby poll overwhelmingly demonstrates that weakness and a markedly softer approach to the projection of American global power do not make the US president more popular abroad. In fact they simply strengthen the position of America’s enemies, undermine her effectiveness as a global power, and draw contempt and derision from both friend and foe alike.

Of course, world leadership is not a popularity contest, nor should it be. But it should be deeply worrying for the White House when a genocidal tyrant like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is now viewed more favorably across many parts of the Middle East than the leader of the free world. George W. Bush may not have been loved in the Arab world, but at least he was feared and respected.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good to see you're opinions aren't burdened by such trivial things like "reality" or "truth"

seriously, though, it is refreshing to see people actually admit they won't change their opinion. It saves everybody a lot of time.

Hey Prosperity.

If we were sitting down having a conversation, you and I, I think that I would probably lable him a bit differently but what lable would that be? This President, for me, is very difficult to lable. I certainly don't think he is Moderate or even to the center. I don't believe that his policies are either. Is this the result of my political ideals? Possibly. I have often looked at the Presidency of George W. Bush and felt as if he was much more to the center in his Presidency then most on the left give him credit for so there is that very real possibility.

However, based on the choices provided, I would have to conclude that he is Far Left.

[Jumbo]

I thought it's been obivious. He's a faux Christian/secret Muslim/radical leftist-socialistic-commie with right-side neocon hawk tendencies. :pfft:

[ABQCOWBOY]

I thought it's been obivious. He's a faux Christian/secret Muslim/radical leftist-socialistic-commie with right-side neocon hawk tendencies. :pfft:

Hey Jumbo. How you been?

[Jumbo]

Hey Jumbo. How you been?

Strange as ever. And thinking later this summer I need a trip to 6th Ave in Austin.

If I do, fill that 10 gallon hat of yours with a single malt and have some chips, salsa, and spicy BBQ wings ready. Man at my age has to mind his nutrition.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Strange as ever. And thinking later this summer I need a trip to 6th Ave in Austin.

If I do, fill that 10 gallon hat of yours with a single malt and have some chips, salsa, and spicy BBQ wings ready. Man at my age has to mind his nutrition.

Say the word and we are there. I have zero problem with any of those suggestions.

[Teller]

Say the word and we are there. I have zero problem with any of those suggestions.

Call me. A beer with His Jumbousness is #37 on my bucket list.

[Jumbo]

Call me. A beer with His Jumbousness is #37 on my bucket list.

Hopefully, #1-36 involves enticing women of suspect virtue and questionable judgement accented by beautiful natural scenery in various configurations.

I now cease derailing the thread.

[Prosperity]

Hey Prosperity.

If we were sitting down having a conversation, you and I, I think that I would probably lable him a bit differently but what lable would that be? This President, for me, is very difficult to lable. I certainly don't think he is Moderate or even to the center. I don't believe that his policies are either. Is this the result of my political ideals? Possibly. I have often looked at the Presidency of George W. Bush and felt as if he was much more to the center in his Presidency then most on the left give him credit for so there is that very real possibility.

However, based on the choices provided, I would have to conclude that he is Far Left.

If he is Far Left, who is he Far Left of?

What do you call people significantly to the left of him? Farther Lefter?

[jpyaks3]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100096840/bush-trumps-barack-in-the-arab-world-president-obama-is-proving-an-embarrassing-flop-in-the-middle-east/

According to the report’s author, the Democrat adviser James Zogby:

After improving with the election of Barack Obama in 2008, U.S. favorable ratings across the Arab world have plummeted. In most countries they are lower than at the end of the Bush Administration, and lower than Iran’s favorable ratings (except in Saudi Arabia).

… While many Arabs were hopeful that the election of Barack Obama would improve U.S.-Arab relations, that hope has evaporated. Today, President Obama’s favorable ratings across the Arab World are 10% or less. Obama’s performance ratings are lowest on the two issues to which he has devoted the most energy: Palestine and engagement with the Muslim world.

The Zogby poll overwhelmingly demonstrates that weakness and a markedly softer approach to the projection of American global power do not make the US president more popular abroad. In fact they simply strengthen the position of America’s enemies, undermine her effectiveness as a global power, and draw contempt and derision from both friend and foe alike.

Of course, world leadership is not a popularity contest, nor should it be. But it should be deeply worrying for the White House when a genocidal tyrant like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is now viewed more favorably across many parts of the Middle East than the leader of the free world. George W. Bush may not have been loved in the Arab world, but at least he was feared and respected.

Sorry don't trust Zogby polls simply because in the past they have been so bad/had flawed methodology.

That article is pretty absurd trying to prescribe what the numbers mean. However, I wouldn't doubt that he has very low ratings across the region, what exactly has he done to earn better rankings. We still unconditionally support Israel, still screw over Palestine, still support dictators, still are in Iraq and Afghanistan, I see no reason why his numbers should be favorable. Would be interesting in a true heads up who would win, Bush or Obama?

Personal experience is that people at least in Cairo still like him a hell of a lot more than Bush but that doesn't say very much.

For content Obama is center right anywhere but the United States. In the US he is slightly left.

[abdcskins]

Occidental College represent! Yeah I went there, so did he. :cool:

[twa]

Sorry don't trust Zogby polls simply because in the past they have been so bad/had flawed methodology.

.

Well it is comparing Zogby poll results to each other

but I do agree they generally suck

[ABQCOWBOY]

If he is Far Left, who is he Far Left of?

What do you call people significantly to the left of him? Farther Lefter?

In truth, I would describe Obama as Solidly Left. Just Left, but that was not an option. As to who I would say he is left of, off the top of my head I might say Clinton. I would consider Clinton more of a Centrist on the Democratic Presidential side then I would Obama.

[Baculus]

Conclude what you will. He's Far Left in my opinion. You and your millions of Americans can accept that or don't. It's not going to change my opinion one way or the other.

This isn't a serious reply.

Show us some examples to WHY he is "far left," as I showed you examples to why he isn't. Again, people who are actually on the far left would disagree with your statements which are devoid of any demonstrable evidence. But I suppose that is how you operate, basing opinions on "just because," which is not an informed opinion,

If you can't explain the difference between revisionists and revolutionaries, then your claim isn't based upon any realistic measurables. Simply put, you don't know how to diagnose the far left, because you don't even know what they want.

---------- Post added July-14th-2011 at 07:58 PM ----------

In truth, I would describe Obama as Solidly Left. Just Left, but that was not an option. As to who I would say he is left of, off the top of my head I might say Clinton. I would consider Clinton more of a Centrist on the Democratic Presidential side then I would Obama.

Back in the day, the Republicans declared Clinton as the most "left wing president in history," claiming that he would destroy the country. Rush Limbaugh also said that Clinton would destroy the U.S. "as we know it," too. Neither of which came true, so why should we trust any right-wing judgment on Obama?

[techboy]

If you can't explain the difference between revisionists and revolutionaries, then your claim isn't based upon any realistic measurables. Simply put, you don't know how to diagnose the far left, because you don't even know what they want

I actually tend to agree with you, but it's important to remember that "left" and "right" are somewhat subjective terms at best. In France, you'd be a conservative, and ABQCOWBOY would be a fascist.