When will we EVER learn? Redskins fans, some of the biggest hypocrites around .....

[Beans]

Most in this thread are way off. The Skins' free agency reputation is largely built from the Bruce Smith and Sanders signings. Smith was 38 at the time. 3-8. Sanders was 33. Much older than any of the guys the so called "hypocrites" are pining for in this free agent class. The free agent class of 2006 was a disaster. Lloyd didn't really wanna play (yet). We tried to make Randle El a bonafide #2--the dude is just not a starter nor an every down player period. Arch deluxe was just bad. Andre Carter was a nice player.

I don't see anything wrong with signing free agents. They just have to fit in with what you're trying to build. This isn't some Madden franchise were players actually have some esoteric overall rating that will translate into similar play on any roster.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

They got those picks by trading their best player. Something we should have done last year with the likes of Cooley, Carter, and others.

Instead, we decided to win now.

Yeah, I'm positive we have several players on the roster who would generate that type of Hershel Walker-type trade, you betcha :thumbsup:...

Oh jesus man, they signed those players when they were playoff teams shooting for a super bowl.

You are smart enough to know the differences between these teams and us, and how completely different the team building strategies should be.

did you actually read the post I was responding to? lol...And if it was YOUR post, hoo boy ...

The post I responded to made the claim that you never hear of teams like the Pats and Eagles signing prominent free agents. I simply showed that wasn't the case. To paraphrase Gibbs Hog Heaven, "why they did it is irrelevant".

[HailGreen28]

Packers- Charles Woodson was a huge signing

Eagles- Assante Samuel huge signing/Also reportedly very interested in Asomugha

Pats- Randy Moss huge signing

Pats signed Randy Moss, remember? They also signed Junior Seau.

Eagles signed Asante Samuel and Jason Peters.

Those teams don't try making the big splash every year like we do. Look how far back we have to go, for the guys discussed.

Woodson to the Packers - 2006

Samuel to the Eagles - 2008

R. Moss to the Pats - 2007

Seau to the Pats - 2007

Peters to the Eagles - 2009

Meanwhile in the same timeframe, we sign a "big name" every year.

2006 - Archuleta

2007 - one year we did good. Fletch was the biggest "name", and he worked out.

2008 - J. Taylor

2009 - Fat Albert

2010 - McNabb

2011 - Atogwe

I love most of Skins history, especially Gibbs I. But this is one bad trend we seem to be stuck in! Unlike the lately more successful teams mentioned.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I can imagine Cullen Jenkins having played a handful of games each of those two years and most calling for him now asking "just WTF did we sign a 30 year old injury prone chump to a big contract" if that helps Cali man.

Hail.

*Edit* And the continued hypocrisy there in STILL being totally lost on them.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I can imagine Cullen Jenkins having played a handful of games each of those two years and most calling for him now asking "just WTF did we sign a 30 year old injury prone chump to a big contract" if that helps Cali man.

Hail.

I can also imagine 90% of ES members calling for the heads of Kareem Moore, Reed Doughty and Kevin Barnes if they aren't playing at Pro Bowl level by week 4...and I can see them calling Jarvis Jenkins and Leonard Hankerson "busts" if it takes longer than 7 1/2 games for them to become dominant.

[Beans]

Those teams don't try making the big splash every year like we do. Look how far back we have to go, for the guys discussed.

Woodson to the Packers - 2006

Samuel to the Eagles - 2008

R. Moss to the Pats - 2007

Seau to the Pats - 2007

Peters to the Eagles - 2009

Meanwhile in the same timeframe, we sign a "big name" every year.

2006 - Archuleta

2007 - one year we did good. Fletch was the biggest "name", and he worked out.

2008 - J. Taylor

2009 - Fat Albert

2010 - McNabb

2011 - Atogwe

I love most of Skins history, especially Gibbs I. But this is one bad trend we seem to be stuck in! Unlike the lately more successful teams mentioned.

Your list is nice and all. But McFlabbulous and Jason Taylor were not free agents. We traded second round picks. FA is not the problem. Dumbasses in the Skins' org are the problem. You can't make stupid personel decisions and expect to win. Talent counts, coaching only gets you so far.

[jflow78]

Last years Packers with an average age of 25 is another great recent example as noted above. A team that's set up to dominate for the long haul too. Go figure.

Hail.

Absolutely, but you do realize that the Packers actually started having a "turnover" system back in the 90's when they traded for Brett Favre, signed Antonio Freeman, Reggie White, and a ton of other veteran FAs right? They have had a successful system in place, partially because they started it out with solid, hard working, veteran leaders. NOT because they ONLY drafted players. Currently they have stays mostly away from FAs, but even now they haven't completely stayed away. Howard Green played a major role in their rotation at NT last season.

They don't stay away from FAs nearly as much as you guys like to think, since most of my family are Packers fans I tend to talk about this stuff a LOT, they're just smarter with their signings:

These are all players they got from outside the draft and UDFAs, who I consider part of the draft, who were on the SB team this season:

DE Ryan Pickett (UFA)

CB Charles Woodson (UFA)

LB Brandon Chillar (UFA)

CB Jarrett Bush (waivers)

RB Ryan Grant (trade)

S Anthony Smith (trade)

FB John Khuh (waivers)

LB Diyral Biggs (waivers)

NT Howard Green (waivers)

and that isn't counting the guys they signed in FA, traded for, or picked up off of waivers, who they later cut, so you can safely double that list. That's still not many, compared to MOST teams, but it's more than you all are letting on.

Now, that's not a ton, but the way they've really made their team isn't through the actual draft either, it's been through UDFAs THAT is where we should really be hoping our team hits it big, and that's why they have so much depth. They had 38 players drafted who are still on the team and 28 UDFAs that are still on the team, who they picked up right after the draft and have NEVER played for another team. You expect to have about half your players from the draft, but to have nearly half from UDFAs is freaking remarkable no matter what team you are.

No doubt, they've been MUCH smarter with their FA signings, but they've been MUCH smarter with nearly ALL their transactions, even compared to the best teams in the league.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I can also imagine 90% of ES members calling for the heads of Kareem Moore, Reed Doughty and Kevin Barnes if they aren't playing at Pro Bowl level by week 4...and I can see them calling Jarvis Jenkins and Leonard Hankerson "busts" if it takes longer than 7 1/2 games for them to become dominant.

Their a whole other bunch of hypocritical morons who claim to want one thing and then ***** and moan if it doesn't give instant success when we do it.

Hail.

[Boston Skins]

I don't mind going after free agents at all during the rebuilding phase, as long as the goal is to get progressively better each year. It should be a goal to finish better than 6-10 in 2011, otherwise why are you out there? Forfeit the season.

I want to go after free agents now because I TRUST that Bruce Allen won't offer up another Haynesworth contract. I finally have semi-peace of mind that if the staff is targeting a 30 year old free agent that they will structure the contract in such a way that is beneficial to the organization. The McNabb trade was a disaster, but Allen actually got Donovan to sign on the dotted line that he can be dropped by the Redskins on September 10th, 2011 and we wouldn't owe him a penny afterwards. I mean, come on, GENIUS.

We are in a great position to play around in the free agent market now. The Redskins had a very strong draft and are looking to upgrade in a few other areas. Adding veteran leadership, through free agency primarily, to the team will only help this team in the long run, as long as it is done correctly.

[HailGreen28]

Your list is nice and all. But McFlabbulous and Jason Taylor were not free agents. We traded second round picks. FA is not the problem. Dumbasses in the Skins' org are the problem. You can't make stupid personel decisions and expect to win. Talent counts, coaching only gets you so far.

You're right about "dancing with the stars", but not "McFlabbulous" (lol good new one).

My point is we make the big splash every year, like we're one player away from a SB. Meanwhile the teams that ARE one player away concentrate on building from within. The one exception I've noticed cited in this thread: The Pats who built by signing mid-level cut-from-other-teams FAs that fit their system, while still accumulating LOTS of picks to give more chances of draft hits. Even the Pats don't go for the "big name" every season.

edit: :doh: I saw "Flab" and assumed Fat Boy not McNabb. Still, they were the biggest "names" available at the time, and we got 'em. And again, it worked SO well for us. :doh:

[Beans]

Let's not kid ourselves. While Ted Thompson does draft well, the Packers are awesome because of Aaron Rodgers, not because they stay away from the big signing. Flip flop the Rodgers and Campbell picks, and the Packers's fans are presently talking about tanking the season to get into the Andrew Luck sweepstakes...

[Thiebear]

The Redskins are 45million under minimum = the opposite of the last 15 years.

The Redskins have no QB, no RB, no WR that are legit Redskins1 airjet pickup worthy.

That sounds new to me.

[KCClybun]

Their a whole other bunch of hypocritical morons who claim to want one thing and then ***** and moan if it doesn't give instant success when we do it.

Hail.

And there's a whole other group of people who want to sit on the high horses with smug smiles on their faces when the team sucks so they can say "I told ya so".

It's a tale of two warring factions in one fanbase who don't want to bring balance to the Force. Or the Redskins, as it were.

[Beans]

You're right about "dancing with the stars", but not "McFlabbulous" (lol good new one)..

Didn't we trade a 2nd and a 4th for McFlabbulous?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Those teams don't try making the big splash every year like we do. Look how far back we have to go, for the guys discussed.

That's because--wait for it--they are already established and don't have as many holes to fill lol..as has been often repeated on this thread.

It's also because they have had numerous drafts with numerous draft picks, so they had a lot of young depth developing on their team and ready to take over when needed:

Between 2006-2010:

Pats - 50 draft picks

Eagles - 47 draft picks

Redskins - 33 draft picks

Which do you think would have helped the Redskins more: not signing free agents, or drafting 17 more players over that timespan?

Woodson to the Packers - 2006

Samuel to the Eagles - 2008

R. Moss to the Pats - 2007

Seau to the Pats - 2007

Peters to the Eagles - 2009

Are you sure those were the only FA signings by those 3 teams? lol...

[Mahons21]

The Ram and Bucs are the two most recent examples, both being among the 5 youngest teams in the NFL.

Neither the Rams nor the Bucs have built a consistent contender yet. Rams drafted a once in a lifetime QB as well, I would argue that most teams that are lucky enough to attain such a player ie Manning can't be looked at as the norm.

They have sign veteran FAs, but only at positions where they were completely absent of young talent.

Completely absent of all young talent or just young talent that you might have heard of? Because I guarantee most fans around the league don't know name's like Kareem Moore, and would simply say that OJ was filling a position where we are absent of young talent, but obviously you live in ATL so you might have followed them more closely than the average skins fan.

The Falcons and Lions have also followed this path, signing just one "big FA" per offseason. We are talking about signing somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 vet FAs to be immediate starters.

You're adding the one big FA stipulation, that wasn't the argument I was currently having.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Let's not kid ourselves. While Ted Thompson does draft well, the Packers are awesome because of Aaron Rodgers, not because they stay away from the big signing. Flip flop the Rodgers and Campbell picks, and the Packers's fans are presently talking about tanking the season to get into the Andrew Luck sweepstakes...

...Yeah, that could very well be true :yes:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The one mistake that the Skins repeatedly made under previous regimes that they do not seem to be repeating under Shanahan is the idea that richest guy plays.

Of course, Shanahan may have taken his resitance to this idea to the point of idiocy last year. But there is no shame in bringing in a 28-year-old FA at a good price and moving him down the depth chart.

The fe times the Skins did this in the past turned into ridiculous pissing contests where the goal seemed to be to make the guy quit football (Lavar, Archuleta, etc). But I think that was a Gregg Williams' thing, not a Skins' thing.

[HailGreen28]

That's because--wait for it--they are already established and don't have as many holes to fill lol..as has been often repeated on this thread.

It's also because they have had numerous drafts with numerous draft picks, so they had a lot of young depth developing on their team and ready to take over when needed:

Between 2006-2010:

Pats - 50 draft picks

Eagles - 47 draft picks

Redskins - 33 draft picks

Which do you think would have helped the Redskins more: not signing free agents, or drafting 17 more players over that timespan?

Are you sure those were the only FA signings by those 3 teams? lol...

I'm talking big money, big name contracts. We make a splash every year. They don't.

Agreed about using picks instead of trading them away.

Didn't we trade a 2nd and a 4th for McFlabbulous?

Right. I thought of Fat Albert when I saw that moniker.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Detroit is light years ahead of us in talent now. Where has their FA class been?

Is Detroit's talent that good? They have an awesome D-lineman and an awesome receiver and a QB who may be good if he could ever stay upright. I'm hardly ready to "crown their asses" right now.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Let's not kid ourselves. While Ted Thompson does draft well, the Packers are awesome because of Aaron Rodgers, not because they stay away from the big signing. Flip flop the Rodgers and Campbell picks, and the Packers's fans are presently talking about tanking the season to get into the Andrew Luck sweepstakes...

Lol. A fair and pertinent point.

Which also adds weight to those that would be happy if we ended up with one of the worst records this year to enter the Luck/ Jones sweepstakes. But that's for another thread.

Hail.

[jflow78]

Their a whole other bunch of hypocritical morons who claim to want one thing and then ***** and moan if it doesn't give instant success when we do it.

Hail.

Part of our issue is that we don't look at a full team and hope our guys play like "the Steelers" or "the Packers" or "the Pats". We see individual players and think, "man I hope our QB plays like Brady" or, "I hope our WR plays like Fitzgerald" etc. We tend to forget that all these teams only have a handful of super-stars, the rest of the guys are role players who know their job and execute it the way it's supposed to be done, not an entire team of Pro Bowl caliber players.

If we honestly looked at those teams and said, "I hope our starting RBs can combine for a little over 1,000 yards" (like the Packers RBs barely did last year) then we'd see that having the RB group we had last year actually wasn't THAT bad, we'd see that we HAVE a 2nd string WR that had better stats than the Patriots' 2nd string WR, and more yards than their 1st string (and only starting 11 games) and even more yards than Hines Ward.

The Skins don't need to be blown up, we need to make smart personnel decisions, which we haven't done, but signing a couple decent OL, or a NT is not an awful idea that's going to set us back for another decade. Granted, I don't want to see our young guys sit the bench, we need to go through growing pains to grow, but we can't expect to do that without SOME help from outside. NO TEAM has done that, NONE, and you can look it up if you want, but EVERY team that's EVER won a SB or even been slightly competitive has signed a few FA starters, since FA began.

Show me ONE team that has won a SB and not had a single FA starter, or a FA with significant playing time, on the team, then I'll submit and say we should completely stay away from FAs.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The Dallas dynasty of the '90's was overhauled with youth and mid-twenties experience in the main.

Hail.

That was a) pre-salary cap and,

largely the result of the most one-sided trade in NFL history.

That model is 100 percent utterly and totally impossible now.

For God's sake, the Cowboys had two young QBs on the roster who were both taken with #1 picks. If a team did that now, they would be destined to go 2-14 for five straight years.

(It is a marvelous fantasy football approach though. Holler!)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Agreed about using picks instead of trading them away.

And that's where our concern needs to be as fans right now: will Shanny and Allen continue the Give Away Draft Picks bonanza that went on before they got here, or will they realize the value that numerous draft picks hold? This past draft makes it seem as if they see the light and understand. Trust me, if we end up with 30 or more players drafted between 2011-2013, it won't matter one iota if we signed Cullen Jenkins lol ...

What pisses me off, though, it imagining having 17 extra draft picks at our disposal these past 5 years...even if we only kept half of them, that would mean 8-9 extra players who are young and starting to enter the primes of their careers right now, this season. :doh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The Packers are a very young team and deep. Thats why they could withstand so many injuries and win a Superbowl.

Can anyone point to me the big FA classes the Packers brought in over the past 5 years?

Or the Steelers?

The Steelers seem to be a special case. It helps that they have not missed on a first round pick since the 90s and seem to draft pro bowlers in the 4th round on a regular basis.

Also, the Steelers have been good to great for about 18 years now. They keep filling holes with mid to late round picks - which is basically a magic trick.