When will we EVER learn? Redskins fans, some of the biggest hypocrites around .....

[addicted]

I think its a little silly that you criticism the most successful team of the past decade because they haven't done anything lately.

No they have done lots lately right? They were perfect and crowded champions before they lost the biggest game in history (One good thing the Giants did). the media and so many fans were up there butts with praise and they got it handed to them, hahaha. And then they pulled off all of those 1 and done seasons leaving there fans with nothing but saddness. They done somethings but when it comes down to it they choked like the best of them.

Does your opinion really change that much if the Giants OL gets call for one of the 37 holds on the Tyree catch?

Does it even matter? Fact is I judge success as a whole. Truth is that sorry ass media favorite team are chokers now. They get all the credit and love from the fans and media and every year they suck. When you criticize them or mention how once they were caught with that cheating mess they haven't won anything the fans of the team get upset. It's awesome.

Sorry. I do to. But it is possible to do even in the East.

Since when did 10.something equal 12?

And speaking of the division, now is the time to start planning for a long run of dominance. There could be a window opening in the next few years where there is no dominant team, and we would be wise to be preparing to retake the mantle of best in the East.

Preparation for that starts now.

Well at least we can agree on something

[jflow78]

Vrabel (31)

Bruschi (33 and a stroke victim)

Seau (37)

Colvin (a spry 29)

3 of the 4 were FAs by the way. None were drafted by Belichik.

I had not realized that. Interesting.

I think the Pats/Eagles/Steelers/etc are great successful franchises and we SHOULD be patterning ourselves after them, but that doesn't mean we have to avoid FAs (even old ones if they have short term small contracts). The fact that Shanahan spent a large portion of his time off with Belichick tells me that that is part of the reason he ran FA like he did last season. Why avoid a source of talent, as long as you're not handicapping yourself with long term deals, if it can help you win?

That seems like Belichick's "system" to me.

[The Tris]

BUT, with the exception of Gerard Warren, the Pats signed a LOT of veterans to start, not just as depth. Besides, I completely forgot they signed Deltha O'Neal to start at CB, so that's pretty much a straight across trade.

Money will have to be spent, I just hope we do it smart, with guys who fit our system and are ready to work, rather than going after the biggest names.

The Pats sign a ton of veteran depth every year, and with the value of hindsight, those depth players ended up being contributors. Pretty much exactly like many of our FA signings last season.

It should hardly come as a surprise that there are injuries in the NFL, and these unplanned events elevate depth and role players.

Signing players like Vonnie Holliday and Gerald Warren, or Leigh Bodden or Phillip Buchanon, to the contracts these players signed is a very productive way of using FA.

Unfortunately we are simply going to disagree about the two blocking TEs the Pats signed. If you want to believe that they were anything other than depth for a position where the Pats had none, go ahead.

[jflow78]

The Pats sign a ton of veteran depth every year, and with the value of hindsight, those depth players ended up being contributors. Pretty much exactly like many of our FA signings last season.

It should hardly come as a surprise that there are injuries in the NFL, and these unplanned events elevate depth and role players.

Signing players like Vonnie Holliday and Gerald Warren, or Leigh Bodden or Phillip Buchanon, to the contracts these players signed is a very productive way of using FA.

Unfortunately we are simply going to disagree about the two blocking TEs the Pats signed. If you want to believe that they were anything other than depth for a position where the Pats had none, go ahead.

I agree that I'd rather do FA the way they do it than the way we approached it, but seriously man, they HAVE Crumpler listed as their #1 TE officially:

http://www.patriots.com/games-and-stats/depth-chart.html

And both their other guys were rookies (2nd and 4th), so I'm not surprised they started Crumpler, nor do I knock them for it, the guy is a great blocker.

[The Tris]

but seriously man, they HAVE Crumpler listed as their #1 TE officially:

http://www.patriots.com/games-and-stats/depth-chart.html

And both their other guys were rookies (2nd and 4th), so I'm not surprised they started Crumpler, nor do I knock them for it, the guy is a great blocker.

I understand what the website says. But if you look at the snaps, Gronk played 756 and Crump played 540.

He wasn't the #1 TE.

(aside: do you think there are heated debates about who the starting RDE for the 2010 Redskins was on other teams message boards?)

[jflow78]

I understand what the website says. But if you look at the snaps, Gronk played 756 and Crump played 540.

He wasn't the #1 TE.

Now you have found a source I do not have. Where did the snaps stat come from?

If you haven't noticed, I'm a big fan of numbers.

[The Tris]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post?id=4692559

Me too.

This article also speaks to the value of signing veteran depth players. I'd rather sign a vet DE as depth and to mentor Jarmon/Jenkins on a "Alge Crumpler" deal (2 years, $5 M) than go spend $40 M on 5 years of Cullen Jenkins.

Though it won't surprise me when they cut Crumpler for rookie Lee Smith. That's the Pats.

[Oldfan]

That quote wasn't aimed at you either. However, I thought you said we shouldn't sign any players over 30 as starters, because the Pats never do that. If I misunderstood, my bad. Like I said though, this was something I've heard from a lot of people this year, so I decided to see how true it was, turns out it's not true at all. The Pats almost ONLY sign FAs over 30, and if they use the FA as a starter, the player is almost always over 30.

The place where the Pats seem to do better is that they DO sign FAs over 30, generally to less expensive contracts, and usually they don't play on the team as a long term solution, they're used as a 2-3 year stopgap, though about half the FA starters they signed were with the team for about 4-5 years, which I'd consider long term.

You misunderstood. I didn't use the patriots as a model because Beleichik has never been in a rebuilding situation. I have been saying that we should only be after young FAs , 27 and under, QBs 30 and under -- until we have a solid core built -- only THEN should we use cheap FAs as gap fillers (as Belichik does).

Another p[oster implied that Belichik signed one or two high-priced FAs a year. I think Adalius Thomas was the only signing that would fit that description.

---------- Post added July-12th-2011 at 06:37 PM ----------

...The majority of this thread has offered the position that the Skins should never sign anyone over 30 (more or less). Also' date=' New England has been shown as an example of the "right way" to do things. [/quote']I think you must be scan-reading. The idea that the Skins should NEVER sign anyone over 30 hasn't been offered. And, unless I've missed it no one has offered the Patriots as an example of how the Skins should be rebuilt.

[CommanderDOOM]

would love an Asomugha jersey and would hate to see him on any other team in the 'beast'.

[Beans]

I think the Pats/Eagles/Steelers/etc are great successful franchises and we SHOULD be patterning ourselves after them...

Off topic, but I think part of the Steelers success is they are the most juiced team in the league. Just like their 70s teams. Look at how unnatural most of their players look. I think James HGHarrison is the poster child for how performance enhancing drugs can make you a millionare.

[Skins199021]

how about the fans stop acting like politics. You need balance...... not lets only do the draft, or lets only do FA.

how about a mixture of good drafting, and signing good FAs that can all impact the team.

People act like signing FAs is what ****ed us over..... No being dumbasses is why we have sucked

[skinfan2k]

Off topic, but I think part of the Steelers success is they are the most juiced team in the league. Just like their 70s teams. Look at how unnatural most of their players look. I think James HGHarrison is the poster child for how performance enhancing drugs can make you a millionare.

no they just draft bad asses and guys who know how to play football. we have primedonnas everywhere

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

no they just draft bad asses and guys who know how to play football. we have primedonnas everywhere

Had ..... we 'had' primedonnas everywhere. Shanahan and Allen have slowly but surely more or less weeded them all out, with one lard ass exception.

Hail.

[skinny21]

It's pretty clear that we have some positions that we are completely devoid of any young talent that could possible start an NFL game this year. Those are the positions we should look to be adding FA starters with the intention that those players we would sign would be long term (5 year) solutions.

I have previously said I believe those positions to be RT, RG, and QB. (Although depending on where you see KL and/or WM ending up, we could be looking for a LG or a C, based on where their highest and best uses are respectively)

It is also clear that we have some positions where there is either a "young" player who has demonstrated competence or a highly drafted rookie. Those are positions where we should not be adding FA starters (despite the fact that in most cases the FA would be an upgrade for 2011).

I have previously said I believe those positions to be CB, ILB, NT, DE, WR, and RB.

I agree - to me, RT is the key spot for a higher-priced FA starter, otherwise...

I would leave C alone between Cook and our two current guards, though we may need a

G if one moves to C. I'm guessing you (like me) wouldn't mind FA competition brought in for the second set of positions you mentioned. For example, I don't really want a stud CB brought in, but an experienced nickle back to challenge Barnes for the 2 spot would make me happy. Younger would be better for this, but I wouldn't be opposed to guys closer to 30.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Had ..... we 'had' primedonnas everywhere. Shanahan and Allen have slowly but surely more or less weeded them all out, with one lard ass exception.

Hail.

I was about to say lol ...who the hell is on the team that would be considered a primadonna? (besides Haynesworth, that is)

[Going Commando]

Though it won't surprise me when they cut Crumpler for rookie Lee Smith. That's the Pats.

Lee Smith is a really nice prospect. He's an OT playing TE. He easily was one of my favorite TEs in the class. Belicheck has a beastly good eye for the position.

[ILikeBilly]

I didn't read every entry, so this may have been said already. WE MAY HAVE TO SIGN A LOT OF FREE AGENTS. If McNabb is traded and someone else signs Grossman, we have no choice but to sign a starting caliber QB. If Moss leaves, we could stick with our young WRs, but if CRogers and PBucannan leave, we have to sign a starting caliber CB. We had the same problem at safety, but already made the signing. Linebacker could be a problem if Rocky leaves and nose tackle if Kemo leaves.

I would perfer to extend some current contracts with the 45mil, but there will be some signings, with some forced upon us.

[The Tris]

I guess it all comes down to whether you think internally promoting home grown talent, or paying for FAs, is the best way to build a roster.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I guess it all comes down to whether you think internally promoting home grown talent, or paying for FAs, is the best way to build a roster.

That's only an obvious choice if the players from both category are the same caliber.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

That's only an obvious choice if the players from both category are the same caliber.

I'm pretty sure that Moore is every bit the free safety that Atogwe is...or will be in the next year or two. :yes:

[The Tris]

That's only an obvious choice if the players from both category are the same caliber.

Well usually there are two variables: are they the same caliber today? and who will be the better player X years from today?

[jflow78]

(aside: do you think there are heated debates about who the starting RDE for the 2010 Redskins was on other teams message boards?)

Didn't see this the other night.

No, and unless you pull some amazing stat out, I will refuse to believe you

No one but reporters cares about our team.

[The Tris]

Didn't see this the other night.

No, and unless you pull some amazing stat out, I will refuse to believe you

No one but reporters cares about our team.

Yeah, I hardly see Texans fans arguing about whether Kedric Golston was our starter or not as they debate signing DE depth in their new 3-4.

[Oldfan]

I guess it all comes down to whether you think internally promoting home grown talent, or paying for FAs, is the best way to build a roster.

Back in 2007, I authored a thread which included my own study on the 2006 All Pro team. I found that 53 of the 56 players still belonged to the team that drafted them. There were two FAs and one player acquired by trade (Champ Bailey).

As a general rule, teams draft and keep their best players through their prime years.

[Reaper 21]

damn oldfan thats the most logical thing i ever saw from u