tr1 might have been right all along about DeMarcus Ware...

[jflow78]

Hahahahaha.......

I'm just playin' with you guys.

I don't care if Ware is the best, I just know I don't like it when he's playing against us on Sundays.

[tr1]

This is probably the stupidest thread I've ever seen on ES and that is saying something.

WB, please.

The Skins fans here have acknowledged the obvious...Wade has proven my point.

Please, unless you have something worthwhile to contribute, feel free to skip this thread.

BTW, did you happen to see Wade ACKNOWLEDGE that they ran a 5-2!!! Where there is almost always a BLITZ...something I pointed out years ago.

So, WB, take a seat...listen, understand, learn.

You should be humbled to be in the presence of great Skins' fans in this thread...I'm humbled by it.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 07:25 PM ----------

Westy BY FAR is making the most sense in this entire thread...shut it down!!!!

Funniest thing about this thread and all the conversation about Ware, was when TR1 said that "the reason D Ware has so many TFL (tackles for loss) was because he rushes the QB every play" ....which at that time that comment was made...... made me laugh so hard that i almost died...LITERALLY.....

Please explain what a 5-2 is designed to do.

I'll wait...and wait for your apology.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 07:27 PM ----------

So Ware is really a DE? The point that has been made ad nauseam is that Ware is not really an OLB. He is a stand up DE. Dallas has never run a 3-4 Def, it just gets classified as such because there is no run of the mill def for a 5-2. Wade has stated as much over and over and over. So comparing Ware to James Harrison isn't really far. Harrison drops in coverage quite a bit. Orakpo was asked to cover a TE quite a bit. So comparing Ware to Orakpo is like comparing Wilfork to Kevin Williams. Yeah, they "technically" play the same position (DT), but they don't in actuality play the same position.

Football logic is lost on puke fans.

Nice post.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 07:28 PM ----------

let me save TR1 from the time to do it......

if you wanna talk about the Skins and/or Rak pl;ease take it to the stadium...stay on topic please.....

Ware is an average player that benefits from the "scheme" that he is in, and pads his stats vs lesser teams and disappears in big games......

(add 50 smiles to it and there ya have it)

I know that Rak strikes fear in you puke fans...wait until you see our d-line in the fall.

Be afraid.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 07:32 PM ----------

Just because he does not do it that often does not mean he can not do it. I have seen him fall back and cover just fine.

Sure...

I've seen him NOT be able to dominate a game like super star lbs have in the past...Ray Lewis comes to mind...Where has never been dominant in a game...EVER.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 07:35 PM ----------

Congratulations, tr1, on another quality call on the Cowboys. :applause:

I just state the obvious about that pathetic franchise, it's coaches, fans and especially its GM.

[AKM311]

We'll see about that this year when he's actually asked to *gasp* cover someone.

I feel like I have read this thread about 6 years ago. Except it was Roy Williams being talked about and not Ware.

How did that turn out? Not saying it will happen again, but makes you think.

[tr1]

I feel like I have read this thread about 6 years ago. Except it was Roy Williams being talked about and not Ware.

How did that turn out? Not saying it will happen again, but makes you think.

I predict the pukes' opposition will purposefully choose formations putting Where in coverage...and, basically exposing him to embarrassment all season long.

Please, bookmark this post, puke fans.

[DeadExField]

I wish we rushed Orakpo as much as the cowboys rush/ed DWare

[tr1]

I wish we rushed Orakpo as much as the cowboys rush/ed DWare

Me, too.

Anything to take away from Where's mythology.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Product of the system or not. More DE than LB or not. Pass rusher on every down or not. The simple fact is, as much as it pains me to say it, DeMarcus (Be) Ware is an exceptional football player, who'll go into the books as one of the all-time greats. If Orakpo (someone that can't cover for **** , and is just as ineffective in run support; so he compares well to Ware in this basis) has even half as good and productive a career as Ware has had to date we'll have ourselves one HELL of a football player.

Side note: Westy, crawl back under that stone and polish your gun. The term silence is golden was thought up with you in mind.

Hail.

[No Excuses]

I'm not quite understanding the point of this. DeMarcus Ware is an exceptional pass rusher and football player who happens to ummm, rush the passer because that's what he does best. What is the fuss?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm not quite understanding the point of this. DeMarcus Ware is an exceptional pass rusher and football player who happens to ummm, rush the passer because that's what he does best. What is the fuss?

Ongoing pissing contest between the OP and 'Girls fans with victory being claimed on this one now the walking poster child for the Pillsbury Doughboy has confirmed the obvious argument winner.

And you thought the tailgate was out there .....

Hail.

[SirClintonPortis]

Why do people have such an affinity for disinformation?

Most 3-4 OLBs are going to rush the passer more. It's an established FACT that should be on the level of common sense, but people see OLB and think Marcus Washington and Rocky McIntosh regardless of whether talking about 3-4 or 4-3.

Generally, both outside linebackers can rush the passer and play the run. Outside linebackers in the 3-4 defense tend to be larger in comparison to linebackers in a base 4-3 defense. They are also often players who would play DE in a 4-3 defense as situational pass rushing specialists but who otherwise may not fit the expected role of a DE being somewhat smaller in size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linebacker#3-4_defense

This link talks about the VARIANTS of the 3-4, with the Phillips 3-4 being one of them: http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/265696

[Hitman21ST]

Why do people have such an affinity for disinformation?

Most 3-4 OLBs are going to rush the passer more. It's an established FACT that should be on the level of common sense, but people see OLB and think Marcus Washington and Rocky McIntosh regardless of whether talking about 3-4 or 4-3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linebacker#3-4_defense

This link talks about the VARIANTS of the 3-4, with the Phillips 3-4 being one of them: http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/265696

No one's arguing that. But Wade himself calls it a 5-2 and doesn't care about dropping them into coverage, something outside linebackers in a 3-4 DO need to do, which Ware doesn't. Ware is a liability in coverage, but that was just masked by Dallas' scheme. He will be exposed as nothing more than a situational pass rusher who gets beat routinely by tight ends and slot receivers when forced to cover.

[SirClintonPortis]

No one's arguing that. But Wade himself calls it a 5-2 and doesn't care about dropping them into coverage, something outside linebackers in a 3-4 DO need to do, which Ware doesn't. Ware is a liability in coverage, but that was just masked by Dallas' scheme. He will be exposed as nothing more than a situational pass rusher who gets beat routinely by tight ends and slot receivers when forced to cover.

I remember Ware dropping into coverage...once in a while.

The logic behind calling it a 5-2 is because he's sending 5 guys in total on most of the plays. In the sense of who are the down linemen who are the guys standing behind the linemen(the LBs), it's a 3-4.

In the fannation blog post, it mentions that the Phillips variant is always sending at least one outside backer. Even if Ware could cover well, he still should have been the one being sent the majority of the time, not the other guy(Spencer).

I don't believe most of the 3-4 OLBs are particularly great in coverage, with some exceptions(Timmons). However, those Cowboys fans operating under the delusion that Ware was one of the "special" OLBs who could cover have gotten a much deserved rude awakening.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Count me in with the "this thread is stupid" crowd. If you want to try and diminish Ware's pass-rushing ability by pointing out the obvious (that he rushes on just about every passing down) then you also have to diminish the talents of every 4-3 defensive end and penetrating defensive tackle that has ever played in the league. The likes of Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Warren Sapp, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Dexter Manley, and Deacon Jones clearly don't hold a candle to James Harrison because they never had to drop back in coverage every now and then.

No one's arguing that. But Wade himself calls it a 5-2 and doesn't care about dropping them into coverage, something outside linebackers in a 3-4 DO need to do, which Ware doesn't. Ware is a liability in coverage, but that was just masked by Dallas' scheme. He will be exposed as nothing more than a situational pass rusher who gets beat routinely by tight ends and slot receivers when forced to cover.

Phillips runs a 3-4 by virtue of the fact that there are only three guys with their hand in the dirt in the team's base defense. That's all there is to that bit of terminology. When Phillips likens it to a 5-2, he's referring to the spirit of his defensive philosophy as having five (nearly) full-time rushers. Don't read too much into it.

Also, you would have to be truly naive to believe that a competent defensive coordinator would utilize a scheme that regularly requires Ware to drop back in coverage.

[Tweedr01]

This is definitely the stupidest post I've ever seen on ES and that is saying something.

Why don't you find the original thread before commenting on a thread referring to THAT thread, then you won't sound like a Cowboy's apologist. The argument had to do with whether Ware had inflated stats due to the fact that he rushes the QB more than any other LBer in the league, since he never has to cover anyone EVER.

And the point of the article had nothing to do with what Wade is doing now, but what Wade was doing when he was IN Dallas.

And, yes, I was kidding. Stop over reacting and go hold your chubby coach's feet to the fire.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 04:08 PM ----------

Yes they did.

---------- Post added May-10th-2011 at 04:10 PM ----------

I know it's extremely difficult for you Cowboy's fans to do two things at once.

You are ugly, and your breath stinks.

hahahahahahaha

jflow wins the thread

---------- Post added May-11th-2011 at 07:57 AM ----------

Just because he does not do it that often does not mean he can not do it. I have seen him fall back and cover just fine.

i have seen you wearing a redskins jersey. just because you do not do it that often does not mean you don't.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Please explain what a 5-2 is designed to do.

I'll wait...and wait for your apology.

apologize for what??? You being ignorant or in other words a total lack of knowledge in regards to Football????

This thread is awesome....it was put on here to give you some credit yet it further buried you and your theory and straight owned you!!!!!! That is what I call a GREAT THREAD!!!!!

Thanks to the OP!

TR1's major claim on Demarcus Ware was not only that he benefited from the "scheme in which he plays but to go on and say that Ware would be nothing more then an AVERAGE AT BEST DE in a 4-3....which anyone that can read can see that this article is saying that Ware is a great pass rusher and is used primarily as a rush END.......hahahahah

Too funny!

Any more threads out there to "defend the honor of TR1? HAHA!!!!!!!

HAHA!!!

---------- Post added May-11th-2011 at 08:30 AM ----------

hahahahahahaha

jflow wins the thread

---------- Post added May-11th-2011 at 07:57 AM ----------

i have seen you wearing a redskins jersey. just because you do not do it that often does not mean you don't.

the real winner in this thread is EVERYONE not named TR1........He was straight owned in a thread that was designed to give him credit. I looove it LMAO!

---------- Post added May-11th-2011 at 08:49 AM ----------

Ongoing pissing contest between the OP and 'Girls fans with victory being claimed on this one now the walking poster child for the Pillsbury Doughboy has confirmed the obvious argument winner.

And you thought the tailgate was out there .....

Hail.

absolutely false accounts across the board...TR1's claim that Ware was nothing special and benefited from the scheme also included statements from him of "Ware would be nothing more then average player, if he was a DE in a 4-3...a notion that has been proven false by this article alone. Ware is a superb pass rusher and it matters not how he gets there, from the DE position or the OLB position.......

This thread as it was initially started to give credit to the TR1, actually did the very opposite and showed him to be wrong in his assertion of Ware.....

One would walk away from this article and the thread saying "Demarcus Ware is a great pass risher, which is EVERYTHING Cowboys fans have said about him in his defnese....

You act like Dallas fans argue with TR1 and say no sir, not only can he rush the passer, he can drop into coverage like he is D. Revis......palease..........Dallas fans know that Ware is "capable' if being in coverage, when the very few instances he is asked to do so he can, but ALL COWBOY fans.........want to see D Ware rushing the QB 100% of the time.

Why would any Def Cord take a GREAT pass rusher like Ware and use him in coverage on passing downs??? who would do that and why?> Its a very simple way to fired is what it is........

Would any Redskin fan (lets see a show of hands) want to see Brian Orakpo dropping into coverage or lined up on a slot receiver on 3rd and 15??????

this thread is hilarious!

[VCDefectors]

While Ware is among the best pass rushers in the game today, I would argue that Ware doesn't belong in that elite category of "greatest of all time". Ware is productive and any team would be glad to have him. But give me a Lawrence Taylor or Charles Haley any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Those elite players did more than just get the sacks, they put the fear in the opposition. LT and Haley got into people's heads. I don't see Ware doing that. He doesn't have that game-changing personality, at least on a consistent basis.

So, I don't agree with the OP about Ware being a product of the system, I don't see Ware as a 'God among men' type of player, either

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You do rant some nonsense at times TRPB.

I've argued with the OP through countless threads about the HoF (IMHO) headed talents of DeMarcus Ware, and what those talents are. Why you'd negate that recount in this very thread and go on to bestow those same virtues Ware brings to the table is an amusing waste of a post.

And if your seriously contending other Dallas fans haven't argued against tr1 in Ware being the product of the system and not just an all time great pass rusher then you've clearly either not been reading the threads over the years; or are just taking the points you want to take.

Hail.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

While Ware is among the best pass rushers in the game today, I would argue that Ware doesn't belong in that elite category of "greatest of all time". Ware is productive and any team would be glad to have him. But give me a Lawrence Taylor or Charles Haley any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Those elite players did more than just get the sacks, they put the fear in the opposition. LT and Haley got into people's heads. I don't see Ware doing that. He doesn't have that game-changing personality, at least on a consistent basis.

So, I don't agree with the OP about Ware being a product of the system, I don't see Ware as a 'God among men' type of player, either

He certainly is one of the best in the game and your right far from one of the best of all time. I just watched a clip of him wired up and the clip was also comparing him to Charles Haley and its just not there yet, and most likely never will be. We are talking about the greatest of all time, thats a feat that is pretty dag on hard to get to, and if Ware has the production that he has for another 10 years,m then "maybe" thats a whole other story, but i dont see that happening either, just based on how he plays and partially on the fact that he tends to get hurt in games (in that head neck area) alot and will probably not play ball for more then 5-6 more years from now.

all that being said, he is a top 3-4 DE/OLB...AKA pass rusher in the game today. on top of that, he is WAY better then average at setting the edge and playing the run.

---------- Post added May-11th-2011 at 09:50 AM ----------

You do rant some nonsense at times TRPB.

I've argued with the OP through countless threads about the HoF (IMHO) headed talents of DeMarcus Ware, and what those talents are. Why you'd negate that recount in this very thread and go on to bestow those same virtues Ware brings to the table is an amusing waste of a post.

And if your seriously contending other Dallas fans haven't argued against tr1 in Ware being the product of the system and not just an all time great pass rusher then you've clearly either not been reading the threads over the years; or are just taking the points you want to take.

Hail.

nonsense is anyone that would discredit a player based on the scheme in which he plays.

You can make life on yourself very simple and just ignore me then, because quite frankly i could care less what you think about me and my post.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Why would I ignore a faceless name on a message board who's views are neither here nor there to me? I was just passing an observation.

Another one would be if you take things so much to heart, as certain outbursts would suggest; maybe this isn't the forum for you.

Hail.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Why would I ignore a faceless name on a message board who's views are neither here nor there to me? I was just passing an observation.

Another one would be if you take things so much to heart, as certain outbursts would suggest; maybe this isn't the forum for you.

Hail.

Ya got me wrong.....but most do. Have a nice day

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Ya got me wrong.....but most do. Have a nice day

Just a thought. Maybe you need to look at the tone of a certain amount of your responses of late to explain just why your being read wrong.

But regardless, have a nice day too man.

Hail.

[tr1]

Also, you would have to be truly naive to believe that a competent defensive coordinator would utilize a scheme that regularly requires Ware to drop back in coverage.

The point is (as Wade has pointed out), Where is a product of scheme. That's not to diminish that he's an okay athlete, but he ISN'T a COMPLETE player...making him much, much less than an ALL TIME GREAT.

Puke fans think he's HOF material...he isn't.

He can't dominate a game, as many COMPLETE defensive players have in the past.

His numbers are a result of the scheme he's in AND exception play by others AT TIMES on the d-line.

Is this that hard to understand?

---------- Post added May-11th-2011 at 10:04 AM ----------

While Ware is among the best pass rushers in the game today, I would argue that Ware doesn't belong in that elite category of "greatest of all time". Ware is productive and any team would be glad to have him. But give me a Lawrence Taylor or Charles Haley any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Those elite players did more than just get the sacks, they put the fear in the opposition. LT and Haley got into people's heads. I don't see Ware doing that. He doesn't have that game-changing personality, at least on a consistent basis.

So, I don't agree with the OP about Ware being a product of the system, I don't see Ware as a 'God among men' type of player, either

VCD has become a favorite puke fan poster of mine...he lives in reality.

A 5-2 system, however, will always produce a guy with good rushing stats...that's what it's designed to do.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Just a thought. Maybe you need to look at the tone of a certain amount of your responses of late to explain just why your being read wrong.

But regardless, have a nice day too man.

Hail.

I got ya......there is a lot going on, but for the most part man, I really just like to talk football and X's and O's.....and I really do love talking to Skins fans, the 'knowledgeable" ones..........

Please know this....a 5-2 is absolutely no different from a 3-4. Its just terminology......the basic defenses are the exact same.....trust me, Wade Phillips knows this too. There is absolutely no difference in the 2 Defenses.....at the NFL level. Now, the 5-2 I teach and install is in fact different.........and I also teach/install 2 separate 3-4 fronts. I went off the playbook last year and drew up and they ended up keepers for me. The two defenses were slightly different from each other, a 3-4 "Jets" package...and a 3-4 "Ravens" package.......I say this for a couple different reasons and one being that, there are so many different combinations of defenses....and so many different variations, but basically, it all boils down to a 7 man Front.....

if you or anyone else is at all interested in it, I could also talk specifically about Wade's defense and some of the calls he makes (or at least what he "made" when he was in San Diego.....and they way the calls effect each OLB (weak side and strong side).........

EDIT: All that said, I will have to keep in mind what you just said about my post too....because another good poster here and someone i respect and like, said the same thing....and even though I disagree completely, its obviously something you guys are seeing that i am not.

[pjfootballer]

EDIT: All that said, I will have to keep in mind what you just said about my post too....because another good poster here and someone i respect and like, said the same thing....and even though I disagree completely, its obviously something you guys are seeing that i am not.

Probably me. You used to be cool and calm. I liked your posts and your knowledge of X's and O's. You're letting it get to you around here. I think everyone is on edge because the NFL is at a standstill. I just go into other forums and occasion around here because the lack of football talk is driving me crazy. Take a breath and relax before you post. You're a pretty knowledgable guy.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Probably me. You used to be cool and calm. I liked your posts and your knowledge of X's and O's. You're letting it get to you around here. I think everyone is on edge because the NFL is at a standstill. I just go into other forums and occasion around here because the lack of football talk is driving me crazy. Take a breath and relax before you post. You're a pretty knowledgable guy.

Good point....no football is killing me. The Cowboys need the off season more then most. JG has not yet had an off season with his "system"...and with a nee DC they need that extra time as well...

What some people dont realize is that when you have a new coach/staff.......in the NFL, then you are granted extra time as it is to get into camp and get your system implemented. The NFL has always done that giving 2-3 weeks to those teams with new coaches. Now....no one is gonna have that extra time, and it will hurt those teams with coaching changes the most....

But the good in the lock out (if there can be any) is that it gives me more time for my own stuff and my own playbook material. I have been working on a whole new playbook and a Whole lot of new plays....on top of having to come up with some new verbiage for my new team.

So I will be ready to go come June (mini camp) with all my new stuff.....and to boot i am signed up for a ton of coaching clinics...........hahaha

AND...a couple 7-7 passing leagues.

Come on NFL.....this is getting to the point where its ridiculous, because there will also come a point in time where its just too late, and we may indeed miss an entire season. I don't think its going to happen, but it could.

EDIT: and this place is full of good people that know a ton about the game.......X's and O's included, I certainly do not feel at all that i know any more then anyone else here.....however i get somewhat frustrated at specific football stuff, just knowing what BS it truly is....and i think most of the members here know its BS too....but just because of the "rivalry" nothing gets said....its just grazed past...and ignored......that does frustrate me (hahahaha) admitting-ly it does. hahahaha