Poll: Should welfare and/or food stamp recipients be subjected to drug testing?

[shk75]

Should home owners that claim an interest deduction be subjected to drug testing?

Should people that are collecting social security be subject to drug testing?

Should people that are on medicare/medicade be subject to drug testing?

I am not sure if the original question is suggesting that people that accept money from the gov't should be subject to drug testing or that people that are at or below the poverty level should be subject to drug testing.

I addressed this last page but the reason food stamps and welfare are targeted is because there is a history in this nation of blaming those who don't succeed in life and putting the fault at their feet.

[sportjunkie07]

Should home owners that claim an interest deduction be subjected to drug testing?

Should people that are collecting social security be subject to drug testing?

Should people that are on medicare/medicade be subject to drug testing?

I am not sure if the original question is suggesting that people that accept money from the gov't should be subject to drug testing or that people that are at or below the poverty level should be subject to drug testing.

well, i think a dividing line here is whether or not you are paying taxes.

[Predicto]

So am I. But that was part of the decision to quit. When you're spending $80-90 a week on alcohol, you have to make a choice; even if you're not using food stamps (which I wasn't.)

What I did use (eventually) was a little bit of common damned sense.

I'm glad you did. But if it took you two and a half years to figure it out rather than one and a half years, or even more... I still wouldn't want our society to deny you food.

[shk75]

well, i think a dividing line here is whether or not you are paying taxes.

Honest question though. Have you ever been to or lived in a developing nation? Do you know what it is like to have droves of people too poor to eat and living on the streets? To only give benefits to taxpayers is something that would harm not only the security of the nation but also what we stand for "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

[Toe Jam]

I addressed this last page but the reason food stamps and welfare are targeted is because there is a history in this nation of blaming those who don't succeed in life and putting the fault at their feet.

Who's fault is it, then?

Does THE MAN make it impossible for every low income person in this country to succeed?

No, I think not.

[elkabong82]

It was my choice to drink heavily every night for a year and a half after my divorce. It was my choice to stop. (I went through DT's, the whole nine yards. If you're looking for sympathy for drug addicts, I'm afraid you'll have to bark up a different tree.)

good thing you weren't poor so you could afford detox. and I'm sure just as you had your reasons for alcoholism, others have their reasons for becoming addicted as well. Now imagine if we had a system that helped by providing rehab instead of one that is now trying to make poor people pay for a piss test and will just cut off anyone who fails.

how does drug testing recipients handle alcoholics? how is it fair to the welfare mothers abandoned by their husbands/boyfriends after becoming pregnant, that now have to foot the bill for a urine test because some politicians think all recipients are drug addicts?

and I wasn't looking for sympathy for addicts, I was pointing out that your presentation of food vs. drugs as an unbiased choice is severely flawed.

[CrypticVillain]

Who's fault is it, then?

Does THE MAN make it impossible for every low income person in this country to succeed?

No, I think not.

Yeah they do. The man makes low income people pick up the crack pipe. They made the people across the street from me roll that jay. The Man asked me to stay home and not go to the school and collect the benefits.

I kick The Man in the nuts everyday by doing what I have to do to keep my pockets straight and my belly full. Why should people be rewarded for not doing it?

[sportjunkie07]

Honest question though. Have you ever been to or lived in a developing nation? Do you know what it is like to have droves of people too poor to eat and living on the streets? To only give benefits to taxpayers is something that would harm not only the security of the nation but also what we stand for "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

i have been to panama, turkey, egypt, china, guam, tonga, new caldonia, mexico,etc....i agree with you.

reread dave's post and youll see what i was referring to, he's saying that if we drug tested those on welfare, then everyone should be drug tested because they receive something from the gov't. im saying that if drug tests are incorporated, the test should be limited solely to those who arent paying taxes (those receiving welfare)

[shk75]

Who's fault is it, then?

Does THE MAN make it impossible for every low income person in this country to succeed?

No, I think not.

That is not the point. The point is that this type of mentality is detrimental to a nation.

---------- Post added May-6th-2011 at 02:12 PM ----------

i have been to panama, turkey, egypt, china, guam, tonga, new caldonia, mexico,etc....i agree with you.

reread dave's post and youll see what i was referring to, he's saying that if we drug tested those on welfare, then everyone should be drug tested because they receive something from the gov't. im saying that if drug tests are incorporated, it should be limited to those who arent paying taxes (those receiving welfare) only

No problem, also I wasn't directing my post at him just in response to the general notion that only taxpayers should receive government support.

[daveakl]

well, i think a dividing line here is whether or not you are paying taxes.

We all pay taxes. Are you talking about income tax?

[sportjunkie07]

We all pay taxes. Are you talking about income tax?

those on welfare arent paying taxes.

[daveakl]

I addressed this last page but the reason food stamps and welfare are targeted is because there is a history in this nation of blaming those who don't succeed in life and putting the fault at their feet.

Right but I want to know why that is the original posters poll. Why did they choose welfare/food stamps and did they mean to include gov't assistance as a whole, tax credits, etc.

---------- Post added May-6th-2011 at 06:18 PM ----------

those on welfare arent paying taxes.

You buy a gallon of gas you pay tax on it, you purchase shoes you pay taxes on it. Are you saying that people whose entire revenue comes from the gov't should be subject to drug testing but people that get some stuff from the gov't but not everything from it should not?

[DCsportsfan53]

Seeing as I have a major fundamental problem with the way drugs are treated and legislated in this country I'm going to go with hell no.

[elkabong82]

Who's fault is it, then?

Does THE MAN make it impossible for every low income person in this country to succeed?

No, I think not.

The corporations shipping many, many jobs overseas or hiring illegals here to exploit cheap labor that the poor could do. The government's complete lack of financial regulation, which allows jobs to go overseas and sends bailouts to large, corrupt financial institutions, yet wants to make a welfare recipient pee in a cup. Heck, at the very least if the government mandated that all employers had to pay their employees salaries which at a minimum matched the cost of living in the area, it would go a long way in helping out the less fortunate.

there is also the poverty cycle, and not a lot of people recognize or understand just how hard it actually is to break that cycle. It's not as simple as just getting a job. If you start off poor, then the money has to go to immediate expenses, which makes saving money to improve your condition very difficult.

[shk75]

Right but I want to know why that is the original posters poll. Why did they choose welfare/food stamps and did they mean to include gov't assistance as a whole, tax credits, etc.

I would tend to believe that the reason is that these beneficiaries are seen as not deserving of government aid whereas other program beneficiaries are.

[sportjunkie07]

You buy a gallon of gas you pay tax on it, you purchase shoes you pay taxes on it. Are you saying that people whose entire revenue comes from the gov't should be subject to drug testing but people that get some stuff from the gov't but not everything from it should not?

if we instituted some kind of drug testing program, yeah, pretty much.

however, on the whole, i think we need to rework the whole system.

[shk75]

there is also the poverty cycle, and not a lot of people recognize or understand just how hard it actually is to break that cycle. It's not as simple as just getting a job. If you start off poor, then the money has to go to immediate expenses, which makes saving money to improve your condition very difficult.

Not only is there a poverty cycle as a person there is also a poverty trap as a nation much like there is a wealth trap as a nation as well.

[gbear]

I keep seeing "welfare" and "food stamps" used interchangably in this thread. Having used WIC for specialized formula for a foster kid we had with us, I can assure you food stamps do not equal $. When we got them, they were a book of coupons with specific items and size packages specified for which they were redeemable. As it is, I got questioing looks going through the checkout line because I hadn't taken off my work ID. Clearly I had a job and was a man using WIC stamps. Why was I using food stamps seemed to be the question though only the casheer asked.

Also, it seems worth noting, "welfare" is a term whose Webster's definition is "provision of of economic or social benefits to a certain group of people provided by the government or private agencies to the disadvantaged or disabled." Using this Webster's definition, should drug tests be required for all veterans, all elderly, all sick, etc. I think my biggest problem reading through this thread are all of the preconceptions people have about not just what welfare is but also who is on it. I look through the thread, and I see post after post about drug addicts living and starving on the street. Maybe people need to stop watching 21 Jump Street reruns for their cultural impressions of who the people are receiving "welfare" money. Welfare money may be going to the drug addict, but I'll bet dollars to donuts there are at least 10 (probably a 100 fold) elderly people collecting social security for every stereotypical drugged out homeless person living under a bridge using welfare benefits for crack.

[daveakl]

if we instituted some kind of drug testing program, yeah, pretty much.

however, on the whole, i think we need to rework the whole system.

Why drug testing? What about smoking, eating unhealthy, speeding, or any dangerous/illegal activities?

[shk75]

Why drug testing? What about smoking, eating unhealthy, speeding, or any dangerous/illegal activities?

Because that is something they do and thus they would never be for regulating those behaviors

[DeaconTheVillain]

Life isn't so black and white like you seem to think it is. For some people that are addicted to drugs every day is a struggle because they need to feed their habit in order to even feel normal, it's not always about getting high. If you've never been there yourself then it's easy to pass judgment on others and paint it as a simple decision.

Most of the time needing the drugs/alcohol to not be seriously ill.

[Darth Tater]

Would the drug testing apply to the biggest welfare queens, the CEOs of many businesses?

[Darth Tater]

If you receive dole or charity from anybody, you are subject to whatever controls they or their fiduciaries decide upon.

[DeaconTheVillain]

so they decide to mate drug testing AND foot the bill to recipients. if they pass they get a refund, and I'm sure that won't be a long, tedious process, nor will paying for the test be a problem for someone on foodstamps, smh.

drug testing is only effective against pot smokers, everything else is out of the system within days. and it's not the pot smokers that drag down the system, it's the people chemically addicted to hard drugs.

I think the proposal is insulting and stereotypical as well. And how is this going to work exactly? A 1 time test? That won't stop anybody. A continual test? Great, I'm sure welfare recipients won't have trouble ponying up that cash each time.

And when they don't pass the test, what are the consequences? No stamps, so no food. So they are starving, oh and coming down off hard drugs, yeah I'm sure that won't increase muggings and other types of theft.

If government ever wanted to get serious about drug problems with welfare recipients, then they'd try and actually understand the drug and addiction and make decisions based off that instead of off the naive view that drugs are bad and can be quit if someone really wants to. They should pay for the drug test if they really want to force it on people, and those who fail go to a paid rehab. In the long run, those initial costs of drug testing and rehab will be less than someone who skirts the system and stays addicted and on foostamps for their life.

This is a great post, but I will say that crack and opiate addicts will fail these tests because there is hardly a real addict that can stop for the three days necessary to get it out of the system.

I voted yes to the question. But there are a lot of "what ifs." Like what if a mom of 4 fails for weed? She won't get a check to enable her to feed the kids? I am against that.

I am totally against having the welfare people pay for it themselves in any way.

[Major Harris]

That's a different story.

I'm talking about the healthy, obviously not disabled people in front of me at the grocery store talking on their iPhones about how lit they were last night and paying for three carts of groceries with food stamps.

Hope that clears up my position.

i've seen some questionable things with food stamps before, having worked in a grocery store and growing up and living in an area with some poverty. i've yet to see anything like this. i always hear this scenario (usually followed by a beamer in the parking lot sitting on 22"s with spinners), but i've yet to see it.

this idea was proposed in WV 2 years ago (i posted it somewhere in the 'gate), but it died before it ever got to a vote.