WP: Dispelling the myth of Robert E. Lee

[RansomthePasserby]

But if Washington had lost, and if Virginia were still part of England, and Virginia still named schools after him, anyway?

It'd never happen. England wouldn't allow it.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

How many of them were citizens of the United States, and actively held command in the US military, at the time?

Irrelevant. They're still history's losers...why should they be honored? They took up arms against the US. FWIW I agree that Lee and other Confederates shouldn't.

[Predicto]

How many of them were citizens of the United States, and actively held command in the US military, at the time?

This is a good point.

I'm looking forward to the Benedict Arnold celebrations and glorification. After all, he was a very good general who just happened to fight to a lost cause.

[Larry]

Irrelevant.

Yeah, treason against the country who's military you're a member of really isn't important, is it?

At least, it's irrelevant to you.

[sundown]

This is a good point.

I'm looking forward to the Benedict Arnold celebrations and glorification. After all, he was a very good general who just happened to fight to a lost cause.

Completely different scenario, he plotted to surrender a post while in command of troops. although technically he would be considered a traitor to start the war as well......

[Henry]

Again: Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln, had negatives and did great things.

With Lee, the negatives are the only thing he did.

The folks honoring Lee aren't overlooking the fact that he was a traitor and a slaver, they're endorsing the fact that he was a traitor and a slaver. They are the only items on his resume.

That's not exactly true. Lee was a Mexican War hero. He was, as I have pointed out, also very instrumental in getting Confederates to lay down their arms and accept defeat after Appomatox. After the war ended he was very vocal about supporting re-integration and reconciliation with the North, and respect for the Union. After the war was over he became the President of Washington College, using his prestige to turn it into a prominent school, which eventually became Washington and Lee University.

[sly]

The folks honoring Lee aren't overlooking the fact that he was a traitor and a slaver, they're endorsing the fact that he was a traitor and a slaver. They are the only items on his resume.

"Pros:" A top graduate at West Point, 32 years of service in the US Army, asked by President Lincoln to command the entire Union Army, president of Washington College (later becoming Washington and Lee University), and established the first school of professional journalism education in the country.

[bcl05]

I truly don't understand the "honoring" of Confederate generals/officials. These traitors wanted to continue slavery, fought against the USA, and lost. Thank goodness they lost. The world would have been a far worse place if they had won. Do people who celebrate Lee actually wish that he had won? I can't believe that they do.

[Larry]

Completely different scenario, he plotted to surrender a post while in command of troops. although technically he would be considered a traitor to start the war as well......

Yeah, you're right. That's vastly different from an officer in the US Army, standing in a place where the locals have declared war on the United States, deciding that "You know what? I'm gonna join 'em. In fact, I'm gonna command one entire Army of their troops."

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Yeah, treason against the country who's military you're a member of really isn't important, is it?

At least, it's irrelevant to you.

So you're okay with honoring people who killed American soldiers? Sure sounds like it.

[sundown]

Yeah, you're right. That's vastly different from an officer in the US Army, standing in a place where the locals have declared war on the United States, deciding that "You know what? I'm gonna join 'em. In fact, I'm gonna command one entire Army of their troops."

Lee never plotted to surrender his troops in order to switch sides DURING a war. He made a decision to lead troops from his home state.

[Larry]

That's not exactly true. Lee was a Mexican War hero. He was, as I have pointed out, also very instrumental in getting Confederates to lay down their arms and accept defeat after Appomatox. After the war ended he was very vocal about supporting re-integration and reconciliation with the North, and respect for the Union. After the war was over he became the President of Washington College, using his prestige to turn it into a prominent school, which eventually became Washington and Lee University.

"Pros:" A top graduate at West Point, 32 years of service in the US Army, asked by President Lincoln to command the entire Union Army, president of Washington College (later becoming Washington and Lee University), and established the first school of professional journalism education in the country.

And I'm sure he was very kind to his dog, too.

Which of those accomplishments do either of you feel are being honored, when some southern school district names a school after him?

[Thiebear]

Do we erase the names of all people that have lost a civil war in all countries throughout history.

Even the Union soldiers gave their brothers a hug when they got back from service.

People fought for what they believed in and were wrong and luckily they lost.

Robert E. Lee was a great General and scholar and apparetly other things.

Moveon.org man.

[Henry]

And I'm sure he was very kind to his dog, too.

Which of those accomplishments do either of you feel are being honored, when some southern school district names a school after him?

You said there was nothing on his resume except his generalship in the Civil War. That's not true.

He was very highly respected even before the Civil War and continued to be so, by both sides, afterwards.

More importantly, he used that respect to make the transition back to a peaceful union a lot smoother than it could have been. When the war was over he used his considerable influence for something good. I do think that counts for something.

That said, does any of this warrant the status he has enjoyed over the years? Probably not.

But we shouldn't pretend every single Civil War general was some mustache-twisting villain. That's not history. It's ok to look at the whole person.

[sly]

And I'm sure he was very kind to his dog, too.

It was your claim that leading the Confederate Army was the "only thing he did." Pretty simple to dispel that.

Which of those accomplishments do either of you feel are being honored, when some southern school district names a school after him?

Not everyone in this country looks at Robert E. Lee as a traitor.

[Larry]

So you're okay with honoring people who killed American soldiers? Sure sounds like it.

I'll concede that you've got a bit of a point.

Frankly, I'll admit that I was looking for some reason to dismiss the comparison.

(Although, I'll point out that the fact that Lee was a citizen, and a military officer, of the US, when he decided to make war against them, whereas, say, Sitting Bull was defending his home from foreign conquerors, isn't exactly "irrelevant", either.)

After thinking about it, I have to say that no, I don't feel the same way about honoring Lee as I would about, say, Sitting Bull. But no, I can't come up with a hard and fast, binary reason to logically separate the two.

[Henry]

After thinking about it, I have to say that no, I don't feel the same way about honoring Lee as I would about, say, Sitting Bull. But no, I can't come up with a hard and fast, binary reason to logically separate the two.

Because the against the CSA the USA was the good guy and against the Native Americans the USA was the bad guy.

[Predicto]

I truly don't understand the "honoring" of Confederate generals/officials. These traitors wanted to continue slavery, fought against the USA, and lost. Thank goodness they lost. The world would have been a far worse place if they had won. Do people who celebrate Lee actually wish that he had won? I can't believe that they do.

No, they don't think about it like that. They romanticize the Confederacy, think it wasn't really about slavery, and assume that slavery would have just died a natural peaceful death a few years later. Of course, they are full of :pooh: on all of those things, but good luck trying to discuss it with them - anything you say will be viewed as an attack on their heritage. Their mythology is very important to them.

[Popeman38]

No, they don't think about it like that. They romanticize the Confederacy, think it wasn't really about slavery, and assume that slavery would have just died a natural peaceful death a few years later. Of course, they are full of :pooh: on all of those things, but good luck trying to discuss it with them - anything you say will be viewed as an attack on their heritage. Their mythology is very important to them.

Get off it man. Manassas National Battlefield Park. Gettysburg National Military Park. Antietam National Battlefield. Stonewall Jackson's Birthplace. The Lee House at Arlington. These are all US National Park Service managed sites. Why is that? Because the Civil War is part of this countries history. You can't gloss over it. You can't ignore it. You can't pretend it never happened. Right or wrong, it galvanized the country. We survived, and are better off for it.

You castigate a group of people for holding their view, a contrary view to yours. At the same time, you do exactly what you dismiss them for doing. You think you are right in every way, and therefore the opposing POV can't possibly be right? Arrogant.

And you are too good of a poster to do that too...

[TheGoodBits]

Confederate soldiers were just as much Americans and a part of American history as Union soldiers. It's easy to sit here now and say they were traitors, but it's also very much ignorant. These days we've been through 2 world wars, a cold war, and 250 years of history together as a nation. We consider ourselves Americans before Virginians, etc. At that point the country was still young and people identified with their states much more than their country. So of course they would choose to fight for their state, their home. That doesn't make them traitors. And it's not about "romanticizing the Confederacy." It's about recognizing the important role the Confederacy played in the history of America.

[Larry]

Now, as long as we're comparing Lee to other historical figures, though . . .

How about John Brown?

Both he and Lee attempted to overthrow the government of the US. Both of them lost. (Brown lost somewhat quicker. Although that's both a plus and a minus. He accomplished a lot less, and he also did a lot less damage.)

Somehow I'm willing to bet that Lee has a lot more schools named after him than Brown does, though.

(The fact that Lee fought the US to preserve slavery, and Brown fought to end it, couldn't possibly be part of the reason.)

[Popeman38]

Now, as long as we're comparing Lee to other historical figures, though . . .

How about John Brown?

Both he and Lee attempted to overthrow the government of the US. Both of them lost. (Brown lost somewhat quicker. Although that's both a plus and a minus. He accomplished a lot less, and he also did a lot less damage.)

Somehow I'm willing to bet that Lee has a lot more schools named after him than Brown does, though.

(The fact that Lee fought the US to preserve slavery, and Brown fought to end it, couldn't possibly be part of the reason.)

Hey Larry, how do you know about John Brown? Did they teach you about him in American History? If so, how did he get into American History? Seeing as you know about him, methinks John Brown is a celebrated historical figure......

[Larry]

Confederate soldiers were just as much Americans and a part of American history as Union soldiers.

Absolutely. And not one person has said differently.

It's easy to sit here now and say they were traitors, but it's also very much ignorant.

Uh, granted, I got a lot of my elementary education in Illinois, so maybe I have a Yankee bias or something. But as I understand it, "ignorant" and "fact" are not exactly synonyms.

And it's not about "romanticizing the Confederacy." It's about recognizing the important role the Confederacy played in the history of America.

Please, explain to me the important role the Confederacy played in the history of America. (Well, other than the "attempted to destroy the nation, to protect slavery" part.)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Please, explain to me the important role the Confederacy played in the history of America. (Well, other than the "attempted to destroy the nation, to protect slavery" part.)

I'm not someone who would fancy myself a Rebel, but you could easily make the case that everything they contributed to our nation prior to seceding from the Union was important.

[bcl05]

I'm still not celebrating the confederacy. I do think that it is critical that we maintain, visit, and honor the sites of the Civil War battles. When we visit these sites, we should remember the grotesque amount of blood shed on that ground, shudder, and say "never again." The amount of lives lost in that war is really incredible. It is a stain on our history - the worst episode in our past, not something to be "celebrated." The people that were responsible for starting it, for declaring war on the USA, should be remembered as the worst villains in our history.