Daily Caller/ Don’t forget your hijab, soldier!

[twa]

Utter horse****

http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/31/dont-forget-your-hijab-soldier-american-servicewomen-encouraged-to-wear-headscarves-in-afghanistan/

In an effort to get closer to the local population, American female soldiers stationed in Afghanistan are being encouraged to wear a Muslim headscarf when interacting with civilians. But some question whether the practice constitutes cultural sensitivity or a form of appeasement that is degrading to U.S. soldiers.

Major Kyndra Rotunda, executive director of the Military Law and Policy Institute and AMVETS Legal Clinic, told The Daily Caller that while the women are not being ordered to wear the head scarf, encouragement is tantamount to a demand.

“They say they are encouraging women to wear the headscarf when they are out and about and on patrol. But the problem is — and I think anyone who has been in the military understands that being encouraged to do something is about the same thing as being ordered — it really puts them in an uncomfortable position when their commander says, ‘We really want you to do this, technically you don’t have to, but we really want you to do this,’” she said.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/31/dont-forget-your-hijab-soldier-american-servicewomen-encouraged-to-wear-headscarves-in-afghanistan/#ixzz1IH4AHQT9

Female service members are not the only ones concerned. Retired Navy SEAL Scott Taylor told TheDC that he has been troubled by reports of women wearing the headscarves with their uniforms.

“I am completely oppose appeasement to a culture rather than respecting it,” Taylor wrote in an email. “My personal Middle Eastern experience in a very conservative country has taught me that Muslims can feel respected without submitting to an impersonation of their culture. There is little or nothing gained by an American woman in a Hijab, in what is deemed by some as cultural sensitivity. Women in Female Engagement Teams can successfully complete their stated mission without utilization of the Hijab. Encouraging (which coming from leaders is basically an order within the military) this approach is against what the American soldier in uniform stands for. Soldiers operating covertly are a different story.”

Colonel Martha McSally is hopeful that the experience she had in Saudi Arabia being forced to wear the abaya will not be repeated in Afghanistan with the hijab.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/31/dont-forget-your-hijab-soldier-american-servicewomen-encouraged-to-wear-headscarves-in-afghanistan/#ixzz1IH4jEz9t

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

When in Rome......

[twa]

When a US soldier in Rome...you dress as a soldier period

****ing PC BS is ridiculous

[Burgold]

“My personal Middle Eastern experience in a very conservative country has taught me that Muslims can feel respected without submitting to an impersonation of their culture. There is little or nothing gained by an American woman in a Hijab, in what is deemed by some as cultural sensitivity. Women in Female Engagement Teams can successfully complete their stated mission without utilization of the Hijab. Encouraging (which coming from leaders is basically an order within the military) this approach is against what the American soldier in uniform stands for. Soldiers operating covertly are a different story.”

My first instinct is that showing courtesy is never a bad thing. If I visit a neighbor and they take their shoes off in the house I don't demand to keep mine on. The above is a good point though.

[Teller]

So long as Muslim soldiers are "encouraged" to wear crosses in plain view when they're in Christian countries, I don't see the problem.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

So long as Muslim soldiers are "encouraged" to wear crosses in plain view when they're in Christian countries, I don't see the problem.

I don't necessarily equate a Hijab with the cross but I do understand your point. :2cents:

[Teller]

I don't necessarily equate a Hijab with the cross but I do understand your point. :2cents:

I don't either, and to be clear, I was being sarcastic.

I'm not a fan of a member of any religion being "forced" to wear symbols or clothing connected with another religion. IMO, there's not much that's more deeply personal than one's faith. I'm also not a fan of wearing articles of clothing that aren't part of one's uniform. At all.

[The 12th Commandment]

My initial reaction is mirrored here, but isn't anything that helps the mission worth it? Does it even help the mission and was the mission even considered when they came up with this encouragement or was it purely PC? Maybe after you've been there a while you would see this as common sense and consider the arguments as PC. I guess my point is once I started thinking about it, it seemed a little more nuanced than it did at first.

[Tweedr01]

They shouldn't be 'encouraged' to wear this as it is not part of their uniform, and they did not train with them on. What happens when it gets in the way of their sight while they are being attacked? Plus it's not like it will help much anyways as men do not show much respect for women in that culture as it is, women in their culture wear those everyday and get disprespected, why would American soldiers who wear them be treated any differently?

[styx491]

Those look hot

[Predicto]

I don't see any problem with this at all. It has nothing to do with being PC. We want to succeed in our mission over there. The planners think this would help us succeed. It costs us nothing (except a misplaced sense of wounded pride).

[TheGoodBits]

That actually looks pretty bad ass. Walking around wearing a hijab, carrying a gun. It's an neat way to make the locals look at you in a different light and maybe help to empower some local women along the way.

[Tweedr01]

I don't see any problem with this at all. It has nothing to do with being PC. We want to succeed in our mission over there. The planners think this would help us succeed. It costs us nothing (except a misplaced sense of wounded pride).

Or a misplaced sense of sight. These weren't made for combat. The fact that you don't see a problem with putting our soliders, who are already in harms way, at a bigger disadvantage speaks volumes.

That actually looks pretty bad ass. Walking around wearing a hijab, carrying a gun. It's an neat way to make the locals look at you in a different light and maybe help to empower some local women along the way.

lol, did you just say 'empower some local women' in reference to wearing a hijab in the middle east? i laugh sir, haha

[TheGoodBits]

lol, did you just say 'empower some local women' in reference to wearing a hijab in the middle east? i laugh sir, haha

You don't think that wearing it could at least spark a small connection in their minds? Make it seem that they are not so different from these American women, who happen to be carrying around automatic weapons and kicking ass right alongside the men?

[Corcaigh]

[Predicto]

Or a misplaced sense of sight. These weren't made for combat. The fact that you don't see a problem with putting our soliders, who are already in harms way, at a bigger disadvantage speaks volumes.

No it doesn't. First you assume that doing this puts them in harm's way, then you assume that I don't care about our soldiers being in harm's way.

Both of the assumptions are unfounded, and I suspect they "speak volumes" about the length some people will go to keep their anger sharpened toward those darn liberals.

IF the headscarves are genuinely dangerous, then I oppose this. The fact that some guy on the internet named Tweedr SAYS they are dangerous doesn't hold much weight with me. The fact that he assumes without foundation that I don't care about our troops pisses me off, and makes me not give a damn what he says.

[Corcaigh]

First you assume that doing this puts them in harm's way, then you assume that I don't care about our soldiers being in harm's way.

The fact that some guy on the internet named Tweedr SAYS they are dangerous doesn't hold much weight with me.

Does the fact the some guy on the internet named Tweedr thinks the soldiers' commanding officers don't care if their troops are put in harms way hold much weight with you?

[Predicto]

Does the fact the some guy on the internet named Tweedr thinks the soldiers' commanding officers don't care if their troops are put in harms way hold much weight with you?

Why yes. I'd say it "speaks volumes" about him and the depth of his thought processes. Thanks for asking.

[Tweedr01]

You don't think that wearing it could at least spark a small connection in their minds? Make it seem that they are not so different from these American women, who happen to be carrying around automatic weapons and kicking ass right alongside the men?

no, and i'm married to a woman who was born and spent a good amount of time living in the middle east, their views of women are not positive

(pictures of policiticans wearing various religious clothing)

and not one of them was a soldier in a foreign land huh? oh yeah, and they also chose to wear this themselves, they are not forced to do anything

No it doesn't. First you assume that doing this puts them in harm's way, then you assume that I don't care about our soldiers being in harm's way.

Both of the assumptions are unfounded, and I suspect they "speak volumes" about the length some people will go to keep their anger sharpened toward those darn liberals.

IF the headscarves are genuinely dangerous, then I oppose this. The fact that some guy on the internet named Tweedr SAYS they are dangerous doesn't hold much weight with me. The fact that he assumes without foundation that I don't care about our troops pisses me off, and makes me not give a damn what he says.

i'm not assuming wearing a hijab puts them in harms way, i know they are already in harms way before they are even asked to wear this, and i might be a little presumptuous about what you do/do not care about which was not my intention and i'll retract what i said about that.

what does this have to do with political standing? way to throw out your 'victim' card, lol

i'll go ahead and assume that you wouldn't have anyways since you painted me into a neo-con corner because i oppose something that has nothing to do with either side of the political paint.

---------- Post added April-1st-2011 at 01:07 PM ----------

Does the fact the some guy on the internet named Tweedr thinks the soldiers' commanding officers don't care if their troops are put in harms way hold much weight with you?

Why yes. I'd say it "speaks volumes" about him and the depth of his thought processes. Thanks for asking.

sarcastic little...

[oisn1]

In Afghanistan, hijabs tend to be secular headwear, as opposed to burqas which are the fundamentalist religious wear. In essence, hijabs are worn more due to culture, than religion. Judging by the picture provided in the article, the soldiers are wearing modern hijabs: loose, colorfully decorated scarves worn with fashion in mind. I think it is good to show people who were brought up in an extremely repressive regime modern clothing while maintaining cultural sensibilities.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Yeah, Tweeder is married to a Pakistani woman...I think he would know considering some of Pakistan (the northern section especially in the Kashmir/Waziristan) is as backwards as Afghanistan.

[Predicto]

i'm not assuming wearing a hijab puts them in harms way, i know they are already in harms way before they are even asked to wear this, and i might be a little presumptuous about what you do/do not care about which was not my intention and i'll retract what i said about that.

Fair enough. Accepted.

what does this have to do with political standing? way to throw out your 'victim' card, lol

i'll go ahead and assume that you wouldn't have anyways since you painted me into a neo-con corner because i oppose something that has nothing to do with either side of the political paint.

I painted you into that corner because you called me out for not caring about our troops, the same thing that some of the stupider conservative posters on this board do all the time. I don't mean all the conservatives here, since most are very thoughtful and honest, I just mean the knee-jerk Glenn Beck talking point ones.

Anyhow since you retracted what you said, I retract what I said, and I drop any assumptions about your political persuasions.

[Corcaigh]

and not one of them was a soldier in a foreign land huh? oh yeah, and they also chose to wear this themselves, they are not forced to do anything

:

The images demonstrated that showing a little respect in certain situations is considered by many as beneficial to our interests. Do you think the simple act of showing respect will not help them in their role with the locals? 99% of the time their role is essentially police action and community relations. I have a gut feeling they'd be authorized not to wear the headscarf on an actual combat mission.

[oisn1]

lol, did you just say 'empower some local women' in reference to wearing a hijab in the middle east? i laugh sir, haha

You laugh because it is true...? Hijabs are not burqas. Hijabs were brought over from Eastern Europe to the Middle East far before Islam even existed. The headscarves exist as more than a religious symbol; it is also a cultural symbol. Before the Taliban took over, Afghan women were not forced to wear hijabs, but still wore thin scarves for fashion. When the Taliban took power, burqas were forced upon the women and that became the norm. Now, female soldiers have the ability to re-introduce modern clothing to afghan women (and men) and slowly change opinions. Hijabs are most definitely empowering to Middle-Eastern women, just ask young Muslim girls in the US.

[Madison Redskin]

When a US soldier in Rome...you dress as a soldier period

****ing PC BS is ridiculous

It's not "PC BS." We're fighting a war in which we're trying to "win over" the local populace. If asking female soldiers to wear the hijab improves relations with the local population and, by extension, helps us achieve our objectives, I'm all for it. If forcing our soliders to wear elf costumes would help us achieve our objectives, I'd support orders forcing soldiers to wear elf costumes.

IMO, if you place a higher premium on us "doing our thing" than us achieving our objectives, you're priorities are out of whack. Fashion concerns are of secondary importance. Our military objectives are priority #1.