Drafting O-Line in the First Round

[touchdownwashington]

We need a white QB, mostly all white O line and black stud receivers and running backs. If you look at the last 4 or 5 superbowl champion teams and you see this trend. This is not a racial opinion it is what you see. Just saying

[gutlead74]

We need a white QB, mostly all white O line and black stud receivers and running backs. If you look at the last 4 or 5 superbowl champion teams and you see this trend. This is not a racial opinion it is what you see. Just saying

its the white QB guy again! like a Family Guy recoccuring character. George Preston Marshal might be a better user name.

[The Tris]

We need a white QB, mostly all white O line and black stud receivers and running backs. If you look at the last 4 or 5 superbowl champion teams and you see this trend. This is not a racial opinion it is what you see. Just saying

Josh Freeman is going to seriously **** with your childlike world view.

Also, while everything you said is retarded, the OL comment is just blatantly not true.

[touchdownwashington]

I wish Josh Freeman all the best, nothing against him at all. The Redskins need to make alot of freaken changes if they ever want to stop cleaning up the cellar in the NFC east which is freaken sad. Go look at the previous 5 superbowl champions and let me know what you come up with. I

[21Knock_U_Out]

• We had the last ranked defense
  
• We are transitioning to a 3-4 defense
  
• This draft class is one of the strongest in a while in terms of huge defensive ends, nose tackles, and outside rushing linebackers (all of these positions are significant to a 3-4 defense)
  
• There are some key offensive linemen we can pick up in the following free agency period
  
• Our offensive line is actually a middle of the pack group that began to grow together at the end of the season
  
• We're getting Mike Williams back next year at RG
  
• and there are no OL (especially ZBS linemen) worth the top 25 picks
  

Man this pretty much sums it up for me! Can we also throw a wideout in the mix?

[Conn]

We need a white QB, mostly all white O line and black stud receivers and running backs. If you look at the last 4 or 5 superbowl champion teams and you see this trend. This is not a racial opinion it is what you see. Just saying

This statement is borderline ****ing retarded. I won't say retarded, because that would be an insult to the retarded among us. Like Texasaurus.

[darrelgreenie]

Um.

LoL.

Wow.

Okay.

[wildbill1952]

I find it strange that so many posters speak lovingly of BPA over need until it comes to QB, then bring up need as justification for getting a QB. Like meeting a congressman you know is dishonest at church, you're never quite sure what you should say.

The team is in desperate need of a center and guards, and if they let Jamaal Brown go, another tackle. Although I believe Pouncey is the best center in the draft, I would love to see Kalil from Carolina picked up in free agency. But this team, from a need standpoint, has to have one or the other. If Cook or Montgomery were ready to take Rabach's spot, they would have played in the last 3 games of 2010. They didn't. So unless they're just inches away from being starters (very doubtful), this team will be in the same shape on offense next year unless they find a replacement for Rabach,

Of Lichtensteiger, Rabach and Montgomery, none are as good as Mike Pouncey, whether he plays center or guard. Is he worthy of a 10th round draft pick? Probably not. But, is he the draftee, assuming free agency doesn't resolve the issue at center, that provides the best improvement in the offense? I would have to say, that all other things being equal, a large improvement at center has a bigger improvement to the team than any other position. More time to the QB equals more time the offense is on the field. More time of the offense on the field means better stats for the defense. An improved running game, and improved short game (3rd and 1, anything and goal) provide 3 to 7 additional points per game. Seven points per game in 2010 means 11 and 5 instead of 6 and 10. Still too many holes to make it to the Super Bowl, but a lot closer.

Wil there be better players at number 10? We'll throw out QB since that has been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum. But you won't have the best WR, LT, RB, LB, DE, or CB left at number 10. The second best of each of those positions will probably be there. The question as always, is the second best at one of those positions better than the best player at center? Most would agree the need is greater at center. At what point do you say the second best of any position is better than the best at another?

I hope the Skins draft board shows Pouncey higher in their rankings or I hope they have a lock on getting Kalil in Free Agency. But if neither become a Redskin, it's going to be another long season for the Redskins.

[Oldskool]

Well lets be realistic too, there's not an OG or OC worth a 1st round pick, so while you may like the idea of doing it, there's no way I see us reaching poorly for an OL and bypassing a talent like Julio Jones, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus

I disagree completely. There isn't an OL worth a top 10 pick but there are plenty of OL that are going to be late 1st and early 2nd round steals due to the depth at OLB and DL in the 1st round.

There isn't a solid Left Tackle in this years 1st round but guys like Nate Solder, Tyron Smith, Derek Sherrod, and Mike Pouncey are all solid OL that will go mostly on day 1 of the draft.

[terrifNick21]

We need a white QB, mostly all white O line and black stud receivers and running backs. If you look at the last 4 or 5 superbowl champion teams and you see this trend. This is not a racial opinion it is what you see. Just saying

Anytime someone says something isn't something, such as you saying it's not a racial opinion, 11 times out of 10, yes, it is.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Best option might be to trade out of #10 for a late 1st and 2nd. Say Cam Newton falls to us and his hype is off the charts.

Then get a C and NT with late 1st and our 2nd, BPA from WR/DE/G/LB with the extra second.

Or we could draft the best TE at #10 and the second best TE with our second rounder. We could be 4 deep at TE. No other NFC East team can say that! Championship!

[rookieskin]

With all the busts that we have seen from our first round picks, I have No Issues at all with over-reaching for an O-lineman in the first round.

It is our biggest need, and the central core component of a successful team.

Look at it this way, would you rather have an overpaid serviceable Olineman or a complete bust of a WR?

[The Tris]

IIs he worthy of a 10th round draft pick? Probably not. But, is he the draftee, assuming free agency doesn't resolve the issue at center, that provides the best improvement in the offense?

Right logic, but wrong question. The question should be, "is he the draftee that provides the best improvement in the team?"

We must consider both sides of the ball, and with the talent available at needed defensive positions, its simply not true that Pouncey is the best player available in terms of improving the team as a whole. There is no possible scenario in the draft where Pouncey will be the better prospect than whatever DE or OLB is available.

[Chump Bailey]

Right logic, but wrong question. The question should be, "is he the draftee that provides the best improvement in the team?"

We must consider both sides of the ball, and with the talent available at needed defensive positions, its simply not true that Pouncey is the best player available in terms of improving the team as a whole. There is no possible scenario in the draft where Pouncey will be the better prospect than whatever DE or OLB is available.

I think you guys are really selling some of the OT's short in this draft.

[KDawg]

I think you guys are really selling some of the OT's short in this draft.

I don't. None of them are on par as prospects with the Von Millers, Da'Quan Bowers, Patrick Petersons, etc.

Sure, there are some who look like they'll have good careers. Heck, there might be some that have tremendous careers. But they aren't close in the lay of the land when it comes to prospect. Generally you want a guy who you feel is going to be an outstanding player that has tremendous upside and has the measureables. The offensive tackles in my opinion are good players with good upside and have the measureables.

There's your difference.

[The Tris]

I think you guys are really selling some of the OT's short in this draft.

I would take Tyron Smith before Pouncey, sure.

I still wouldn't take either before Nick Fairley, Cameron Jordan, Robert Quinn, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, Aldon Smith, Da’Quan Bowers, Akeem Ayers or J.J. Watt.

[Hail Gibbs]

As much as I agree with the OP that we need an upgrade at C and OG, I don't think we should use a 1st round pick on either as the consensus seems to be that there are no OL worthy of a top 10 pick in this draft and the only guys approaching top 10 stats are all OTs. I am all for drafting OL but 10th overall seems early for a C or G unless they are top prospects and many quality G,C are found in later rounds. With the way this draft class looks I hope the Skins take the BPA from DL,LB,WR @ 10.

[PlayAction]

WildBill1952 "The team is in desperate need of a center and guards, and if they let Jamaal Brown go, another tackle. Although I believe Pouncey is the best center in the draft, I would love to see Kalil from Carolina picked up in free agency. But this team, from a need standpoint, has to have one or the other. If Cook or Montgomery were ready to take Rabach's spot, they would have played in the last 3 games of 2010. They didn't. So unless they're just inches away from being starters (very doubtful), this team will be in the same shape on offense next year unless they find a replacement for Rabach"

Yes, there are serious questions with Jamaal Brown and the Skins may not be willing to give him the contract he wants to stay. He's made it clear that he prefers to play LT and may even play better there with the injury he had to his right labrum. So, the RT need may not have been resolved by the Skins. Unfortunately, the Skins also have their center/guard issues. Cook may be too tall to play Center effectively or at least he he wasn't good enough as a rookie to supplant Rabach. I think Montgomery did quite well in his short stint at Center but I don't think the Skins had anyone that they could count on long-term to take Montgomery's place at Guard. Selvish Capers is still a project - - we don't even know whether he'll be a tackle or eventually move inside as an athletic Guard. I think many of us are hoping that the Skins can pick up some quality (not necessarily "name") OL free agents. If the Skins can't count on free agency due to the CBA then I find it highly unlikely that they can hope to be competitive in 2011.

But if you write off 2011 as a rebuilding year knowing that eventually you will be able to sign free agents then you still should maximize value with your first and second round picks. Assuming no trade downs are possible, then the Skins should pass on the OL in round 1 based upon the currently available information regarding the draft prospects. In the second round it might be possible to pick up a RT or Center.

[LD0506]

I see people talk about "reaching" in the draft all the time, as though even the most cursory look at recent draft history isn't littered with highly touted prospects that bombed. How is it a reach to get a young talent that actually fills a critical need, even if he's picked higher than the experts think he should be? I recall quite a bit of flak over choosing Trent and we saw how that worked out, the kid is going to be a star for us.

Quite often those college stars that have had their ego stroked for years as top pick worthy are the most likely to stumble in the pros, often because they have the mindset that they are already good enough, they must be because of all the attention. In the same way unnoticed late rounders shine their way into the HoF because they had something to prove.

Money is irrelevant, we are talking about the franchise that filled Haynesworth coffers afterall, and that's really all you're talking about w/ draft position, how much the contract is worth. Just for example I'd rather see a kid drafted @10 while ranked high 2nd round that actually panned out, played a decent career for us instead of another swing-and-a-miss. Solidifying the O-line longterm is more important than any perceived draft "value" or rank.

[Chump Bailey]

I would take Tyron Smith before Pouncey, sure.

I still wouldn't take either before Nick Fairley, Cameron Jordan, Robert Quinn, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, Aldon Smith, Da’Quan Bowers, Akeem Ayers or J.J. Watt.

KDawg and Tris

I think Von Miller, Green and Peterson IMO are the only one's I would elevate above Tyson and Sherrod. I think for the most part the top DE's/DT's are pretty much on par with Tyson and Sherrod. I just do not agree that there exists this huge chasm of talent difference. Sherrod is being compared to Trent Williams and Tyson projects well also. I hate draft sayings such as 'it takes three years for a WR to develop' I think that's utter BS. One I do agree with though is that it's very hard for a rookie DL to make an immediate impact. There are always exceptions certainly, but I still stand by my claim that I would be as content with Tyson, Sherrod at #10 just as much as if the selection were Jordan or Quinn.

[The Tris]

Quite often those college stars that have had their ego stroked for years as top pick worthy are the most likely to stumble in the pros, often because they have the mindset that they are already good enough, they must be because of all the attention. In the same way unnoticed late rounders shine their way into the HoF because they had something to prove.

While I agree that this is true in some cases, some more sustaintial proof is going to be needed before your ancedotal evidence is to be take as fact. This sounds like something ripped directly from the pages of a Gregg Easterbrook column about the mores of football.

Money is irrelevant

Yes it is, especially as there will be a rookie cap in place before the next rookie deal is signed. This is no longer a concern.

Just for example I'd rather see a kid drafted @10 while ranked high 2nd round that actually panned out, played a decent career for us instead of another swing-and-a-miss. Solidifying the O-line longterm is more important than any perceived draft "value" or rank.

We have had an extraordinarily high success rate with our first round picks, so I am not sure where this swing-and-miss talk is coming from. If anything, our highly drafted busts have come when we choose need (Thomas, Rogers, Campbell, Ramsey, Garnder) over simply the best prospect available.

Solidifying the OL is but one of many looming needs on this team. The best strategy is to take the best prospect available that fills a need. Luckily, this draft is chock full of defensive front seven players, where we are prehaps even more needing than the OL.

[rookieskin]

How is it a reach to get a young talent that actually fills a critical need, even if he's picked higher than the experts think he should be?

...for example I'd rather see a kid drafted @10 while ranked high 2nd round that actually panned out, played a decent career for us instead of another swing-and-a-miss. Solidifying the O-line longterm is more important than any perceived draft "value" or rank.

:applause::applause::applause:

[Skinsinparadise]

Will there be better players at number 10? We'll throw out QB since that has been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum. But you won't have the best WR, LT, RB, LB, DE, or CB left at number 10. The second best of each of those positions will probably be there. The question as always, is the second best at one of those positions better than the best player at center? Most would agree the need is greater at center. At what point do you say the second best of any position is better than the best at another?

I hope the Skins draft board shows Pouncey higher in their rankings or I hope they have a lock on getting Kalil in Free Agency. But if neither become a Redskin, it's going to be another long season for the Redskins.

If we draft Pouncy at #10, we'd likely be the talk of the first round because no one is talking about him going this high, still OK, but it is very rare for a guard or center to go as a top 10 pick, they got to be IMO like a Larry Allen type who is unbelievable (who went in the 2nd round). Generally the top guards and centers go in the 2nd round. If getting a center is the be all and end all for our offense (I disagree but I'll play along) why not go for the center from Penn State, who is likely a 2nd rounder and is more of a pure center than Poncey.

[LD0506]

While I agree that this is true in some cases, some more sustaintial proof is going to be needed before your ancedotal evidence is to be take as fact. This sounds like something ripped directly from the pages of a Gregg Easterbrook column about the mores of football.

Ha! Well played, but you know what I mean, I sure as hell don't want us to get the next Bosworth....

We have had an extraordinarily high success rate with our first round picks, so I am not sure where this swing-and-miss talk is coming from. If anything, our highly drafted busts have come when we choose need (Thomas, Rogers, Campbell, Ramsey, Garnder) over simply the best prospect available.................Solidifying the OL is but one of many looming needs on this team. The best strategy is to take the best prospect available that fills a need. Luckily, this draft is chock full of defensive front seven players, where we are prehaps even more needing than the OL.

Didn't mean that as a vote for O line specifically, more about the whole "reaching"/draft ranking discussion and how little they really mean as far as pro success. There needs to be a lot more to it than just "Mayock says this guy's a lock!" or "Oooooooo, Kiper said some good stuff about __________"

Best prospect ≠ highest draft rank ≠ best pro career

And I see a lot of talk about players not worth #10, trading down for more picks, yaddayaddayadda, yeah, wouldn't it be great to finagle 3 2nd rounders....again!

[Skinsinparadise]

I see people talk about "reaching" in the draft all the time, as though even the most cursory look at recent draft history isn't littered with highly touted prospects that bombed. How is it a reach to get a young talent that actually fills a critical need, even if he's picked higher than the experts think he should be? I recall quite a bit of flak over choosing Trent and we saw how that worked out, the kid is going to be a star for us.

When we needed a corner after Fred Smoot left via FA we did just that and got Carlos Rogers with others like Ware, Merriman and Aaron Rogers on the board. When we were desperate for a weakside LB, we were zoned in on Rocky McIntosh, took him by trading up in the early 2nd and gave up next years 2nd for him. I recall few had Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey as first round grades, but we needed a QB. I can give a lot of examples like this, look at the dolphins, they needed a speedy WR, they reach for Ginn as the 9th pick. Jimmy Johnson wanted his Emmitt Smith type when he took over the Dolphins and took Avery in the first round even though most saw him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. You had the Raiders shock everyone when they drafted Hayward Bey over Crabtree, Maclin, Nicks, and Harvin.

Sometimes the reaches work out but plenty of times they don't. i recall the draft when we picked Laron Landry how many of us on the board were crying about needing a pass rusher and thought we should have taken Jamal Anderson at the time. Look am all OK if Shanny thinks that lets say Pouncey is the best center he's ever seen, and is the best player on his board despite what the draft geeks think. But if lets say Quinn is there at #10 or Jones or whomever and he's rated higher -- I think its silly to force a pick and grab a center especially considering the first round isn't the operative round to find centers or guards. When was the last time the Giants for example took a guard or center in the first round?

Money is irrelevant, we are talking about the franchise that filled Haynesworth coffers afterall, and that's really all you're talking about w/ draft position, how much the contract is worth. Just for example I'd rather see a kid drafted @10 while ranked high 2nd round that actually panned out, played a decent career for us instead of another swing-and-a-miss. Solidifying the O-line longterm is more important than any perceived draft "value" or rank.

Vinny's gig for the most part has been finding some success with highly rated first round picks. Scoring with late rounders diamond in the roughs have been our problem IMO. So am not so sure that ignoring the hyped up first round type picks like a Sean Taylor, Brain Orkapo, Laron Landry, Chris Samuels and instead reaching for lower regarded less hyped players with our high first rounders is our formula for success.

Why not build the team normally? Find premier talent in the first round and find the diamonds in the rough in the later rounds. the Patriots aren't known for shake your head reaches in the first round. that's the Raiders. If we want to model a team that goes against first round hype its the Raiders as opposed to the Packers, Steelers, Patriots.