NFP: Potential cracks in relationship between Snyder and Shanahan / Allen

[Skinzfever2010]

I dont think we should fire Shanny right now, but I do have a problem with him having all the player personnel power. But using your logic i guess you wanted to give Jim Zorn another 2 years to build his system here in DC? Sometimes the writings on the wall

lol Now you know Jim Zorn shouldn't have even been given the opportunity to be a head coach. Hell even Jim knew it. We should have promoted G.Williams as Coach Gibbs wanted all along.

Greg would have rebuilt the D-lines and O-lines.

He would have found a way to rational way to get rid of Jason Campbell.

LaRon would have never been taking silly angles at opposing players

Hindsight is beautiful. Jim is the playoffs, his QB is nice. He turned transformed Jason Campbell & Matt Hasselback into solid QB's. I would say he is living the life post all the bull **** he had to deal with here.

[SkinsFTW]

One was seeing Dan Snyder walking around red faced and looking quite upset. He looked frustrated at the loss, the 6-10 season, yadda yadda.

I wish the guy would just stay out of the locker room. I'm sure the players don't get more motivated to win when they see the little midget owner running around looking like he's about to throw a temper tantrum.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

The WR debacle left me very frustrated as well. If you search my posts during the season you will see just how "upset" I was. I mean if we were going to throw a 2nd rounder away for Old ass McNabb why not just keep Campbell and throw it away (for then) Denver Bronco WR Brandon Marshall.

Are we headed in the right direction ?

Personally, I have never seen a coach **** up so much (in Washington) in year one and keep his job. Not to mention still keep the faith from his players. Therefore, I would have to say yes. We have to be headed in the right direction. We add a new G, C, and two WR's to the offense and a NT, OLB, FS to the defense we should be a solid 8-8 next year.

Technically,

Nope. Its really yet to be determined. Will we play up/down to the opposing teams week in and week out or will we finally develop some real consistency?

What will our playoff record be if he start getting into the tournament?

Will we ever find a franchise QB post Brad Johnson?

Still some real questions that need to be answered by time & the new administration.

From one young fan to another HAIL!

Ive been saying the same thing. I said we should keep JC even after we traded for McNabb because once we trade JC that means that we HAVE to draft a young qb. And thats not something I really like to do because its such a crapshoot and you hav to wait a few years to find out if he can play or not.

And I agree if this were any other coach he would of been fired for this soap opera that we were this year.

I was also looking to see if we played up or down to our competition. Ive been complaining about for about the past 10 years or so. And thats what dissapointed me about Shanny this year. He didnt get the team to play consistently at one level. I feel that we should have a standard level of play no matter who we play. If that team cant play up to our level then sorry for them we'll just kick their *****, if they do then it will just be one hell of a game, but we should have a standard regardless.

With the Deep draft and free agency pool we should be able to fill some holes and be like you said around 8-8 next year. If we can get to a standard level of play then we have a chance to be better. If not then it will be the same up and down crap that we have been seeing.

[TheLongshot]

Nevermind Carolina also cut him, and they haven't got a single wide receiver in that town that didn't get hurt this year.

Personally, hard to hold that against him when their WRs were getting healthy and they had bigger fish to fry. Fact is, young players who change teams often don't have much of an impact unless they are forced to play. (See: Andre Brown)

I don't know if Thomas forced Shanahan's hand or not in this. In any case, we won't really know where he stands until he has had a full offseason with another team.

[Skinzfever2010]

Ive been saying the same thing. I said we should keep JC even after we traded for McNabb because once we trade JC that means that we HAVE to draft a young qb. And thats not something I really like to do because its such a crapshoot and you hav to wait a few years to find out if he can play or not.

And I agree if this were any other coach he would of been fired for this soap opera that we were this year.

I was also looking to see if we played up or down to our competition. Ive been complaining about for about the past 10 years or so. And thats what dissapointed me about Shanny this year. He didnt get the team to play consistently at one level. I feel that we should have a standard level of play no matter who we play. If that team cant play up to our level then sorry for them we'll just kick their *****, if they do then it will just be one hell of a game, but we should have a standard regardless.

With the Deep draft and free agency pool we should be able to fill some holes and be like you said around 8-8 next year. If we can get to a standard level of play then we have a chance to be better. If not then it will be the same up and down crap that we have been seeing.

Oh yeah. Bang has been preaching it (once I detached from the circus year I could decipher what he was trying to tell me) The Free agency pool & Draft are very deep. Our QB may not be out there this year but we have so many other holes it doesn't matter.

An 8-8, 2011 campaign with a team that doesn't play up/down against its opponent every week would be great. It would feel good. I want to see 110% effort every night. The same way we played Dallas (each time), Indy, Philly (first time) Green Bay every damn week.

I also want to beat the Giants. Coach Gibbs knew how to do it. I'm sure Shanny can figure it out as well.

Your good convo bro lol

Hail!

[Commander PK]

Personally for me, if Shanahan leaves by any other means other than he wants to retire from coaching after several successful years with the Redskins, I'm done with this team with Snyder as owner. I don't care if we win less games next year, which is entirely possible. Compare this roster to the Phallus, Eagles, and Giants rosters, and we don't even come close talent wise yet. I am fully prepared for another 5 to 7 win season again next year. Anybody who expects better than that, is not facing the reality of the situation. This team is not ready to make a run, and it won't be for at least one more season.

I really don't know if I would survive another idiotic move like the Marty firing.

P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E

[tex]

Allen and Shanahan should be allowed to stay so they can continue to build on what they've started. Dan and Vinny 1.0, 2.0, Hot lips Spurrier, Zorn, Bingo play caller, free agent bromances, etc., etc., have taken a terrible toll from these Redskins over many years. They now, finally, have some real pros leading the way and that ain't bad.

FWIW here is one fan that wants Allen and Coach Shanahan to stay.

[redskins55]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!

BOOM! There it is!

If Gibbs would've gone 6-10 in his second year he would've received one more year to get it right based off the fact that he was Joe Gibbs a Redskins legend. But Shanahan is just another coach. And if any of you want to keep him based off his resume from 10 years ago then your NUTTS! He should be evaluated on his accomplishments and progress next season and if there is none, then he should be dealt with.

And all of you that are expecting progress from last year you should temper your expectations big time cause Shanahan set us up to start over this year instead of starting over last year. So basically he's lost a year with mismanagement, giving away draft picks, neglecting youth and wasted trades. Expect us to be worse if he truly wants to infuse the team with youth as he stated. He's a season late and 4 traded draft picks short of that approach.

Great post man and dont listen to some of these ES folks who cant see 2 feet in front of their face about what today's NFL is all about! Win now or find someone who will!

[charles mannley]

Be real with yourself. If McNabb does nothing well then why is he a boarderline hall of famer and why did the genius Shanahan give up 2 picks to get him? Answer that for me

First off you didn't answer my question.

McNabb has not shown that he can do anything good this year. He's lazy, noncompetitive, inaccurate, throws int's at the end of games, and for how old he is still doesn't know how to get rid of the ball quickly. Considering Manning and Brady as HOFers I wouldn't mention McNabb in the same breath as those guys. This season showed he benefitted from Philly's system, and all those years in Philly they had one of the best defenses in the league.

I liked McNabb when we traded for him, but you need to be real he sucks.

[seriously]

There could very well be an "issue" and for the whole McNabb situation it could very well be...

Regardless, I honestly do not expect anything substantial out of our next season other than slight improvements- maybe a couple more wins. If Snyder fires either after next year I am done with this franchise until we get another owner. Both have proven to be capable elsewhere and with less "support" be it financially or with the fanbase.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Assuming Shanahan had no reason for cutting Thomas ignores the fact that he did so after seeing him in every practice, every meeting, every game, and knew everything about the player available to him. He also did it with serious holes in our WR corps, a corps DT couldn't crack all spring and summer.

You don't have that luxury, even if you think you do.

You were looking forward to what you saw out of Thomas last year. Based on what a football professional saw this year, that wasn't enough.

Nevermind Carolina also cut him, and they haven't got a single wide receiver in that town that didn't get hurt this year.

It's like this, if you don't take our coach's word for it, take those others. Fox has been a Super Bowl, not like he's clueless, and could't find a place for him on a team with no receivers. Same with the McNabb flap. If you don't believe Shanahan, believe Reid.

It's not "blind faith" to understand that you lack knowledge of the situation that they have. It's not "blind faith" to measure his reactions against other coaches to see if they make more sense.

However, what IS blind faith is assuming from our once-a-week seat in the stands or on our sofa that we CAN see more than them, and that we know more than them when moves happen that make no sense to us.

Andy Reid always cuts players that people scratch their heads over. Bill bellichek does too. Team leaders, guys who can play.. they think nothing of moving them along if they see something that doesn't sit well with them. And they're right WAY more often than they're wrong.

Accountability is a strangve beast. In some people's minds that means that we expect results in a timely fashion. Me, I expect to be respectably over .500 starting in 2012, and never looking back from there. Next year I expect some more growing pains, and a little more clarity.

I think he's learned from his mistakes.. His escapades with McNabb pretty much show me that. Lots of guys would never admit that mistake, and would never make moves to move past it. In the past he hasn't shown much desire to do that,,, but I also think that his decision is also based in the fact that he's not ensconced here, and he's got to earn his keep.

We can all gas about our opinions, but no matter how much all of us think we know, we all hit that wall where our knowledge ends due to lack of personal experience. And where that ends, even among the most knowledgeable fan, the coach's picks up. Even the worst coaches.

~Bang

And your the typical fan that thinks the coach knows best just because he's the coach. I guess coaches never make mistakes huh? I guess they're not human and dont hold personal grudges against players for whatever reason. No he's the coach and he always makes the right choice becaue he's there everyday. Take that BS somewhere eles. If this was a perfect world then maybe I would buy it.

Ive played sports I know how the game goes, Ive seen good players not get time because the coach had a personal problem with them...and given the fact that I already knew Shannahan had a huge ego exscuse me for not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Just ignore the fact that we all saw Thomas have good games and show some promise. Ignore the fact that other players said how good he was and his potential, this year Randle El said that he sees Thomas as a Anquan Bolden type and he didnt unerstand why he cant get a chance. And was on the field with him, in the study room with him for 2 years...but lets just ignore that because Shannahan can do no wrong. Lets ignore the fact that Jerry Gray another coach who coached players going up against Thomas everyday for 2 years said that the kid can play, is a hard worker, and just needs the opportunity to go out there and show what he can do.

And im a knowledgable fan and im guessing that you are as well...so when I combine what I hear all the players say, what I hear the coaches say, and the talent that i see plain as day on the field then yea im going to assume that shanny had a personal problem with the kid. Especialy seeing that he didnt even give him a chance to succeed this year. And thats why he didnt give him a chance because he knew that aslong as Thomas is an unknown than he can justify cutting him. Because fans like you are going to believe anything he says and back any move that he makes.

And I dont think he's learned from his mistakes especially when ive been following the guy for over a decade. If he learned from his mistakes that he made in Denver then he wouldnt of made the mistakes that he made here in DC. How was i able to say (the day we hired him) that he has too much ego and he needs to get in check. Because he already showed that in the past. And he has shown it here in his first year here...so no i dont think he has learned.

Stop being naive...he doesnt get credit for admitting McNabb was a mistake. Common sense tells you its a mistake if you give up 2 picks to trade a guy and then only keep him for 13 games. Thas common sense...he had to admit it. What else was he goin to say? He has to justify him getting rid of McNabb some way. And you fans are falling for it hook line and sinker.

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 05:37 PM ----------

Oh yeah. Bang has been preaching it (once I detached from the circus year I could decipher what he was trying to tell me) The Free agency pool & Draft are very deep. Our QB may not be out there this year but we have so many other holes it doesn't matter.

An 8-8, 2011 campaign with a team that doesn't play up/down against its opponent every week would be great. It would feel good. I want to see 110% effort every night. The same way we played Dallas (each time), Indy, Philly (first time) Green Bay every damn week.

I also want to beat the Giants. Coach Gibbs knew how to do it. I'm sure Shanny can figure it out as well.

Your good convo bro lol

Hail!

lol you too man I can tell that you really know football. Most people dont look at the little details in sports. As pros you would think that they would have the pride to come out and play to a certain level every week. Thats why i said in 05 that this team had no heart and would never win big time. Everytime we become good and people start to believe in us we lose to a team that isnt on out level. Then when are backs are to the wall and have nothing to lose and people say we suck we come out and beat a good team. It drives me crazy.

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 05:42 PM ----------

Personally, hard to hold that against him when their WRs were getting healthy and they had bigger fish to fry. Fact is, young players who change teams often don't have much of an impact unless they are forced to play. (See: Andre Brown)

I don't know if Thomas forced Shanahan's hand or not in this. In any case, we won't really know where he stands until he has had a full offseason with another team.

Yea that Carolina argumet doesnt hold water if you really know and watch football. Carolina has a few yong good recievers that are starting to develope, and not to mention Steve Smith. So why would you expect Thomas to come in and play right away when those recievers were there working al offseason to get some playing time. You knew that it would take time for him to learn their system...its not like he was going to come in right away and start...thats not how the NFL works.

Like you said once he has a whole offseason with a team and gets on the field you really cant make a judgment on hm or a fair one atleast.

[SkinsFTW]

But Shanahan is just another coach. And if any of you want to keep him based off his resume from 10 years ago then your NUTTS! He should be evaluated on his accomplishments and progress next season and if there is none, then he should be dealt with.

That's the whole problem. Evaluated by WHO? Our non qualified to be anything but a fan, owner? Hey, I didn't like the hiring of Shanahan either. Look at my history, but it takes more than 2 seasons to turn a cluster**** around. The whole problem is that we still don't have a real GM to Coach relationship. Shanahan is basically the boss, the owner is the only one above him and I wouldn't trust that guys "evaluation" process of anything. He's still the same guy who fired Schottenheimer so he could bring back his best buddy and hire Steve Spurrier. He has 0 clue about anything and so how would he evaluate the job that Shanahan is doing?

[ChillSkinzFan84]

First off you didn't answer my question.

McNabb has not shown that he can do anything good this year. He's lazy, noncompetitive, inaccurate, throws int's at the end of games, and for how old he is still doesn't know how to get rid of the ball quickly. Considering Manning and Brady as HOFers I wouldn't mention McNabb in the same breath as those guys. This season showed he benefitted from Philly's system, and all those years in Philly they had one of the best defenses in the league.

I liked McNabb when we traded for him, but you need to be real he sucks.

Ok to answer your question he throws deep balls well, thats why he was close to breaking the single season pasing yards record and why Armstrong was close to 1000yds and why his yds per catch average is so high, he throws screens well, he avoids the rush and can extend plays. We should have alot more sacks than we do but he avoided many.

You dont have to mention with hall of famers but the NFL community does...so I dont think he's worried about you.

[charles mannley]

Ok to answer your question he throws deep balls well, thats why he was close to breaking the single season pasing yards record and why Armstrong was close to 1000yds and why his yds per catch average is so high, he throws screens well, he avoids the rush and can extend plays. We should have alot more sacks than we do but he avoided many.

You dont have to mention with hall of famers but the NFL community does...so I dont think he's worried about you.

And thats why he sucks because now he is easy to gameplan against. Everyone knows he wants to go deep everytime. In this system its timing, rhythm, and spreading the ball around. . McNabb is a backyard quarterback(like Roethlisbuerger without the competitive fire and the ability to hit the intermediate routes) that doesn't fit the system shanahn runs. He is not a student of the game.

I personally think Shanahan saw the wins on McNabbs record, as we all did, but found out he can't be coached.

I know he doesn't care what I think. I am just sayin.

[pimpumd]

This thread is hilarious. Fans still claiming Devin Thomas is great based on what his teammates said about him. Hilarious. What do you expect them to say, that he sucks? I can't recall the last time I heard a player just come out say that one of his teammates (or former teammates) sucked. Yeah, Shanahan made a mistake about McNabb, and he's admitted it.

I actually like what I've seen under Shanahan this year. Under Zorn, we had zero semblance of a running game. Zero. Now, we have Torain (and others), who many would say is not a top RB talent, putting up good numbers behind an o-line we all know is still in need of significant improvement. We throw the ball deep now. We've seen what the offense can look like with a QB that knows how to run it when Rex played well. We know he isn't the answer but at least we know our scheme is capable, which is far more that we had with Zorn (and Spurrier, and to some extent Gibbs).

Fans seems to have a hard time accepting the fact that the team was completely devoid of talent when Shanny took over, and it takes TIME to undo what previous management did. It seems all the Shanahan bashers are hanging their hat on the McNabb trade. Big effing deal. Shanny thought McNabb could play/learn his offense, he couldn't, Shanny admitted it was a mistake and we've moved on. It's worth the risk to get a potential franchise QB, it just didn't work out. The draft picks we lost on that trade weren't going to make us contenders by any means. If it becomes a pattern, then I'll be worried.

[Bang]

Personally, hard to hold that against him when their WRs were getting healthy and they had bigger fish to fry. Fact is, young players who change teams often don't have much of an impact unless they are forced to play. (See: Andre Brown)

I don't know if Thomas forced Shanahan's hand or not in this. In any case, we won't really know where he stands until he has had a full offseason with another team.

True.

I don't have anything against him, but I don't think he's going to do much.

Maybe he'll be like Lloyd and grow up somewhere someday and be something.

Unless I miss my guess, hadn't he only played on year of football before we drafted him? He was very raw then,, might be he's too raw.

~Bang

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 04:02 AM ----------

You'd think after a decade of having coaches last an average of 2 years that fans would learn that it is one of the big reasons why we haven't been very good.

While I wasn't a big fan of the Shanahan hire, or with some of his decisions, I know that this team needs to stick with some plan for longer than two years and whoever was hired for the job should be someone we stick with for the long-term.

Exactly. Ultimately, he may fail.

But if we start rolling heads (except Danny smiths :pfft: ) prematurely we can all but guarantee the next guy will fail, too.

~Bang

[Skinzfever2010]

This thread is hilarious. Fans still claiming Devin Thomas is great based on what his teammates said about him. Hilarious. What do you expect them to say, that he sucks? I can't recall the last time I heard a player just come out say that one of his teammates (or former teammates) sucked. Yeah, Shanahan made a mistake about McNabb, and he's admitted it.

I actually like what I've seen under Shanahan this year. Under Zorn, we had zero semblance of a running game. Zero. Now, we have Torain (and others), who many would say is not a top RB talent, putting up good numbers behind an o-line we all know is still in need of significant improvement. We throw the ball deep now. We've seen what the offense can look like with a QB that knows how to run it when Rex played well. We know he isn't the answer but at least we know our scheme is capable, which is far more that we had with Zorn (and Spurrier, and to some extent Gibbs).

Fans seems to have a hard time accepting the fact that the team was completely devoid of talent when Shanny took over, and it takes TIME to undo what previous management did. It seems all the Shanahan bashers are hanging their hat on the McNabb trade. Big effing deal. Shanny thought McNabb could play/learn his offense, he couldn't, Shanny admitted it was a mistake and we've moved on. It's worth the risk to get a potential franchise QB, it just didn't work out. The draft picks we lost on that trade weren't going to make us contenders by any means. If it becomes a pattern, then I'll be worried.

Under Zorn we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out? I honestly don't want to read anything else you have to say.

Ugh,...

[Redskins4ever]

Mike Shanahan will be around for a while. Why fire him? Why? This is nothing more than some sports writer talking out of the side of his neck. Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen are still trying to undo the mess that Snyder and Cerratto made. That's going to take some time.

[Skinzfever2010]

Mike Shanahan will be around for a while. Why fire him? Why? This is nothing more than some sports writer talking out of the side of his neck. Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen are still trying to undo the mess that Snyder and Cerratto made. That's going to take some time.

Exactly

Slow news day. We pretty much opened ourselves up to be picked on after the circus years that were 09-10. So honestly its whatever at this point. Pick right on and keep picking until there is nothing left to pick.

We need an exceptional draft, and some good free agent pick ups. The mainsteam American Journalism & Mass Communications department has hit the ****ter anyway.

Hail!

[p0rtis26]

Umm...I believe it. This is the same owner who put vanilla ice cream on a coach's desk, hired a bingo caller to call plays, fired Shotty after a late season run in his first year, and had Vinny Cerrato as his GM/VP of Raquetball for the better part of ten years! Everyone needs to get their heads out of their rear ends and wake up! The media is not against the redskins. We do it to ourselves...we are the Raiders!!!

[Skinzfever2010]

Umm...I believe it. This is the same owner who put vanilla ice cream on a coach's desk, hired a bingo caller to call plays, fired Shotty after a late season run in his first year, and had Vinny Cerrato as his GM/VP of Raquetball for the better part of ten years! Everyone needs to get their heads out of their rear ends and wake up! The media is not against the redskins. We do it to ourselves...we are the Raiders!!!

Don't believe the hype

Same owner that hired Joe Gibbs and stepped back. The same owner who said out of his mouth he wants Shan to retire here.

S

L

O

W

News day

[p0rtis26]

Stepped back? You're kidding, right?

[Skinzfever2010]

Stepped back? You're kidding, right?

Danny let Joe run the show. Joe picked his players Vinny signed them. This was explained to me more than a few times this past season by several different posters. I'm very serious.

[Conn]

Stepped back? You're kidding, right?

Even if he didn't with Gibbs, there's NO evidence that he hasn't stepped back now, with Shanahan. And that's all that matters now.

If anything, Snyder and Vinny HAD to fail on their own, with full control, before Snyder could realize that he just couldn't keep that up.

[Bang]

And your the typical fan that thinks the coach knows best just because he's the coach. I guess coaches never make mistakes huh? I guess they're not human and dont hold personal grudges against players for whatever reason. No he's the coach and he always makes the right choice becaue he's there everyday. Take that BS somewhere eles. If this was a perfect world then maybe I would buy it.

Ive played sports I know how the game goes, Ive seen good players not get time because the coach had a personal problem with them...and given the fact that I already knew Shannahan had a huge ego exscuse me for not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

"I've played sports"

Really ? Has it ever been your career? Have you played sports for a living for a few decades?

As you like to say.. "take that **** somewhere else" That's a joke.

They do make mistakes. I've never once said otherwise.

But it's also a fact he knows more about football than you and I combined. To pretend otherwise is the height of arrogance and ignorance. Are you the typical fan who DOES think he knows more than the coach? I don't want to tell you how patently ridiculous that is. I'm sure you've got a job, but I bet it's not anything to do with football.

Just ignore the fact that we all saw Thomas have good games and show some promise. Ignore the fact that other players said how good he was and his potential, this year Randle El said that he sees Thomas as a Anquan Bolden type and he didnt unerstand why he cant get a chance. And was on the field with him, in the study room with him for 2 years...but lets just ignore that because Shannahan can do no wrong. Lets ignore the fact that Jerry Gray another coach who coached players going up against Thomas everyday for 2 years said that the kid can play, is a hard worker, and just needs the opportunity to go out there and show what he can do.

And you just ignore the fact that two NFL coaches have complained about his work habits, and he's on his third team in one year. Young players who can play don't end up in that situation.

As someone else said, I don't think I've ever heard any player say anything negative about a teammate. In fact, if we watch some football together sometime I'll show you a nifty trick. When they interview the coach or any player, I can tell you almost exactly what they'll say BEFORE they say it. And the cool thing is,, so can you! It's as predictable as the sunrise. They almost all say the same things. It's rarely negative, rarely does that get into the public eye straight from a teammate's mouth. When it does, it's news.

But nah, you saw him do well in a couple games last year, so from your position on the couch, you don't get it.

That's fine, you don't get it. But you don't seem to leave the possibility open that there might be a problem there that you DON'T see. You've got it all figured out, and believe you don't get it because they have it wrong.

Teams just love to get rid of talented young players. They do it all the time. Especially when they are rebuilding and don't have any receivers. That is usually when these awesome guys get cut, mid season. Coaches love to do that, especially when they come to a team that has so many needs.

And I'm a knowledgable fan and im guessing that you are as well...so when I combine what I hear all the players say, what I hear the coaches say, and the talent that i see plain as day on the field then yea im going to assume that shanny had a personal problem with the kid.

So what if he did? Maybe his personal problem stemmed from him sleeping in meetings. He's not the first coach that has complained about his work habits. Factor those into what you see.

Especialy seeing that he didnt even give him a chance to succeed this year. And thats why he didnt give him a chance because he knew that aslong as Thomas is an unknown than he can justify cutting him. Because fans like you are going to believe anything he says and back any move that he makes.

Right, becaue it makes SO much sense to have such a conspiracy. It really helps a team be productive!

I don't back everything he does. I'm arguing with your characterization of anyone who believes that he might know a bit more about the situation than we do.

And I dont think he's learned from his mistakes especially when ive been following the guy for over a decade. If he learned from his mistakes that he made in Denver then he wouldn't of made the mistakes that he made here in DC. How was i able to say (the day we hired him) that he has too much ego and he needs to get in check. Because he already showed that in the past. And he has shown it here in his first year here...so no i dint think he has learned.

I've been following about twice that long, and coaches in general for a whole lot longer. I can tell you this about them. They are ALL egotistical. ALL of them. People who compete for a living and lead for a living all think their **** doesn't stink, and that their decisions are right.

The difference is whether or not he can move on from a mistake. McNabb is a HUGE mistake. BIG time, especially considering the rebuilding that needs to be done. It's a disaster that it didn't work out.

I am well aware of his proclivity for making dumb free agent moves and trades. (Love his draft, tho).

I made a cartoon surmising that a "special needs" kid was actually doing his signings for him in Denver. Bronco Billy's been one of my most popular characters ever since.

Not sure how many of my cartoons you've seen, but I'm the guy who does a LOT more than just criticize these guys on a message board. I hammer them. Make fun of them mercilessly. And i get plenty of traffic watching them, including players and coaches alike.

I am so far from the type of fan you think I am it's not even funny, and I've got 7 years worth of radio shows and 150+ cartoons to bear me out when I say that.

Stop being naive...he doesnt get credit for admitting McNabb was a mistake.

really? Eating a gigantic mistake like that as publicly as it was done is not admitting an error?

Common sense tells you its a mistake if you give up 2 picks to trade a guy and then only keep him for 13 games. Thats common sense...he had to admit it. What else was he goin to say? He has to justify him getting rid of McNabb some way. And you fans are falling for it hook line and sinker.

Trouble is, the side of the road is littered with coaches who don't admit mistakes and try their best to claim that it's not even as it gets them fired.

Naive,, that's pretty funny. In the words of the immortal Bugs Bunny.. "he don't know me very well, do he?"

Yea that Carolina argumet doesnt hold water if you really know and watch football. Carolina has a few yong good recievers that are starting to develope, and not to mention Steve Smith. So why would you expect Thomas to come in and play right away when those recievers were there working al offseason to get some playing time.

Because all of them were HURT. Why did they sign him? Do teams sign players for no reason? They signed him and released him a few weeks later. With their injuries, if he could contribute he would, even on special teams. You think none of this has anything to do with Thomas himself?

He's failed to impress every coach he's had in the NFL. He had to fight to get on the field when he was a rookie, they complained about his work habits. Last year before he showed you that promise, he was again on the bench, playing only sparingly. I don't know how many more ways you need to see that the guy might have a problem that turns off his coaches.

Let's face it. Carolina's entire offense didn't know what it was doing all year. One more guy with no experience isn't OKing to make much difference.

But, that's why they're picking first and their coach is looking for a job, I guess.

You knew that it would take time for him to learn their system...its not like he was going to come in right away and start...thats not how the NFL works.

So, for some reason Carolina decided that they didn't even want to give him that, but they signed him anyway... for a few days. Why'd they do that?

Like you said once he has a whole offseason with a team and gets on the field you really cant make a judgment on hm or a fair one at least.

He's had three offseasons. Don't they count?

~Bang