wildbill1952 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I just hope that, if they draft a QB, as many are suggesting, that the people wanting one don't ask for another QB for 5 years. This team keeps treating the symptom - poor QB play, and so far, has poorly addressed root cause - poor oline play and too few big play receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 paul soliai should be our #1 target. hes massive, graded as one of the best NT in the NFL, and hes only 26. a rotation with him and bryant would be a huge help for our dline.and woodley would be nice, but hes gonna cost quite a bit. Ngata is only 26 as well. Plus the Ravens may be inclined to let him walk if the price gets steep because they have Terrance Cody backing Ngata up. Ngata backed up by Bryant would be beast. Woodley may be inclined to lean our way since we have the LB coach he credits with making him who he is. Lou Spanos could be a huge LB recruiting tool come FA. LBs love playing for him. Soliai is 27 BTW. He and Ngata are literally a month apart though. Soliai Dec 83, Ngata Jan 84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 30-7. I think I'll study a different team. Pretty dumb considering that the Chiefs were terrible last year and hosted a playoff game this season at HOME. Their entire team top and bottom is full of play makers on both sides of the ball. They drafted incredibly well, and their defense is solid. The offense gave the ball to the Ravens in the red zone like 3 times. So, yes I'd definitely study the chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 They did make some very gutsy picks and maybe the biggest IMO was Tyson Jackson #3 I understand he's a very good 3-4 DE for them but the man was mid to late 1st round pick he shouldn't have gone that high, although in hindsight it's turned out to be a great pick so who knows and its nothing out of the ordinary with Pioli to make those kinds of picks Actually Tyson Jackson has been a huge disapointment especially after reaching for him like that. He followed up a poor rookie season (as a starter) by being relegated to the bench as a rotational player. Glenn Dorsey on the other hand has been dominant at times despite appearing to be a poor fit for the scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Actually Tyson Jackson has been a huge disapointment especially after reaching for him like that. He followed up a poor rookie season (as a starter) by being relegated to the bench as a rotational player. Glenn Dorsey on the other hand has been dominant at times despite appearing to be a poor fit for the scheme. Interesting because from what I've been hearing they made it sound like he's been good for them but obviously goes to show how much I don't really know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigricky3469 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Our defense need much more than a NT and an OLB lmao, are you kidding me, we need an entire new DL plus one ILB, one OLB, one SS, one CB. That is a grand total of 7 new players but not just any players we need studs. Now tell me how in the hell do you fix that in one off season. If you ask me this is freaking sad!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The 3-4 defense is as good as the DC and we don't have the right guy in my opinion. Haslett hasn't done anything special with any defense he has ran and his record shows that. If you want the best coaches then you have to be picky about who you bring in and what type of scheme he runs. Changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 without anyone suited for the defense is just plain dumb. That is what they did so if there isn't any improvement this next year then you need to get someone else to replace Haslett and from what I saw this year it can't get any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homercles82 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It is amazing to me how many times threads about the 3-4 spring up and have near identical statements from both sides of the aisle in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It is amazing to me how many times threads about the 3-4 spring up and have near identical statements from both sides of the aisle in them. The only difference is that now the Skins are admitting that it takes several years to transition successfully to the 3-4 and that they don't have all of the personnel yet to be effective. Of course, the Skins don't name names but other NFC GMs have done so to reporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFK Lives Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I only read the last page of this thread so not sure if anybody mentioned the Packers. They would be worth a look as well. They, of course, had a killer draft getting Raji and then prototypical LB Clay Matthews. I like the Chiefs, I will have to see if I posted it in here, but I picked them to win that divsion. They did it the right way, built through the draft. They are young and barring injury, will win that division again next year. That just might seal Norv's fate in SD. The Ravens were a tough draw for them, and heck, you can't turn the ball over that many times and expect not to get blown out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 A NT is a must have for sure, but IMO more than anything you need elite LBs to truly make it work. In Pitt they've always had this, and the same goes for Baltimore. No doubt LBs are important to the scheme. Particularly your standup DE pass rusher type. Fortunately for us, we have a good one of those already in Orakpo. But I think it's the linemen that make this scheme run well. You're not going to find a good 3-4 defense without some awesome linemen on it. One of the first things the Patriots did in solidifying their 3-4 was going Richard Seymour (6th overall), Ty Warren (13th overall), and Vince Wilfork (21st overall) in a four year span. With great linemen up front, even ordinary linebackers can be productive (Tully Banta-Cain anyone?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 We need to draft O line again 1st round in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Too bad we didn't jump on Crennel when he was available. Why Haslett anyway? Ive been asking that from day 1. Not as much him but the switch to 3-4 and the result of a BAD defense. Also the switch created the whole AH debacle ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 02:46 AM ---------- Haslett has 3-4 experience (3 years in Pittsburgh as defensive coordinator under Bill Cowher) and Shanahan liked him enough to hire him. Pretty simple. WOW, 3 whole years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in which it went from 6th overall to the middle of the pack. DUDE isnt that good ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 02:47 AM ---------- Alot of my Pittsburgh friends say that when Lebeau retires, they want Haslett back They can have him and then the talent will make him look good for a year or two and then....................................... ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 02:51 AM ---------- There really isn't a reliable model to use for making the transition. The teams that have had a bit of success with it have all had wildly different time frames and methods for going about it. The ones that have had the most early success going from the 4-3 to the 3-4 simply seem to have found a number of players who have adapted to the scheme surprisingly well despite not having prior experience in it in addition to adding as few as one or two skilled players through the draft. Yes there is.....see the Packers. Got a "true" 3-4 coach and then drafted players to fit the system Raji and Clay. They didnt have a drop off. ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 02:54 AM ---------- We've already started the transition so hate it or love it going back to the 4-3 would set us back further. I never liked the 3-4 defense but at this point we're pot committed. WHAT??????? what transition.............You dont have a clue ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 02:56 AM ---------- They ran the 3-4 last season. They were not very good at all... but the only thing they changed on the front seven between this year and last year was their ILBs. And got a legit 3-4 coach ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 02:59 AM ---------- They also have one of the best 3-4 D Coordinators too and they had a lot of pieces in place early on that fit the 3-4. Pickett, Jenkins Hawk Barnett Woodson Bigby Collins and Harris at the time were all fits for the 3-4 and adding in Clay Matthews and BJ Raji made it a very good D OK. Take out the CBs and safeties in your angle cause its about the front 7. Like I said along w/ some others before I got to their posts is that they got a LEGIT coach and drafted Raji and Clay. ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 03:02 AM ---------- Anthony Bryant is a legitimate NT. And Rocky was playing ILB, not OLB. If all we needed was 2 OLBs rushing the QB, then they would have played Orakpo and Wilson (instead of Alexander) as starting OLBs. Bryant.....maybe. You have 6 games played this year to go by...............WAY too early ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 03:04 AM ---------- We need an elite NT. We need an elite OLB. If you have those 2 positions, you can make do with complimentary pieces. Dream (read: not going to happen) FA would be signing Haloti Ngata and Lamarr Woodley.LB: Orakpo, Fletcher, Riley, Woodley DLine: Carriker, Ngata, Golston CB: Rogers, Hall S: Landry, FA/draft Like your plan......maybe add a David Harris. Draft Prince (cb) from Nebraska. **** Carlos Rogers= SUX ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 03:06 AM ---------- Ngata is only 26 as well. Plus the Ravens may be inclined to let him walk if the price gets steep because they have Terrance Cody backing Ngata up. Ngata backed up by Bryant would be beast. Woodley may be inclined to lean our way since we have the LB coach he credits with making him who he is. Lou Spanos could be a huge LB recruiting tool come FA. LBs love playing for him. Soliai is 27 BTW. He and Ngata are literally a month apart though. Soliai Dec 83, Ngata Jan 84 Ngata actually plays DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sknz45 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Ngata actually plays DE Ngata is is a NT http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 WHAT??????? what transition.............You dont have a clue Thank you for your insightful and respectful response. Gems like these are what make ES such a friendly and thought provoking community. What transition you ask? How about alienating our best defensive lineman? He was the best part of our 4-3 defense and now is no longer an option. How about bringing in Anthony Bryant and Adam Carriker. Neither are world beaters but are clearly 3-4 players and will not be as effective in a 4-3 defense. Or replacing 4-3 lineman with guys like Vonnie Holiday, and Maake Kemoeatu, Joe Joseph, and Darion Scott. Or replacing 4-3 ends with linebackers like Rob Jackson, and slimming down Lorenzo Alexander from a DT to OLB. These are tangible roster changes. Whether they were effective or not (in most cases not) these are changes that have already been made. That is part of a transition. Those are just personnel moves. We've also asked our entire defensive line to learn two gap responsibilities. We've asked Rocky McIntosh (who I'm aware most likely will not return), London Fletcher, H.B. Blades, and Perry Riley to take on and shed offensive lineman. We've changed the way our OLB's (former DE's) approach pass rushing from a stand up position. We've changed the way Landry plays (one of our few successes defensively) and the way our secondary in general attacks the ball (and opposing QB's on blitzes). Some of these things could carry over back to an aggressive 4-3 scheme but many do not. I was not a fan of the switch last spring and I'm not a fan of it now. In my opinion the 3-4 is highly overrated by fans. Success defensively is more a factor of finding the right personnel and playing to their strengths than it is some magical scheme. However we have started a transition and consistency and continuity are more important than what scheme we choose to run. If you can't see that then you are the one that is clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^^^^ Bryant and Carriker both played in 4-3 prior so they could play DT if we switched back, get AH back on board (if possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Ngata is is a NT http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx It doesn't matter what they have him listed as, watch a game or two. Ngata is a DE in the 3-4...Kelly Gregg is the NT. Ngata is CAPABLE of playing NT, and might be listed as a DT/NT...but he's their DE when Gregg is healthy. That's the important part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I say give Haslett a break. He really had nothing to work with this season. We don't have a NT we don't have 3-4 Outside LBs ,we dont have 3-4 D Ends, we dont have a ball hawk FS, and Fletcher and Rocky are both adjusting to the 3-4 at MLB. If I was given that bag of goods to turn into a 3-4 style defense I'd probably consider passing to save my reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald362 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 In all fairness to the Chiefs D, the O couldnt stay on the field, and kept giving the ball up to the Ravens. By the time the 4th quarter came around, the D was blowing chunks from being out so long. yeah and let the ravens put up 30...study the ravens or steelers not the cheifs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Ngata actually plays DE Ngata is is a NT http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx He may rotate in there but as he moved to DE when Kelly Gregg got healthy. Look at the depth chart instead of the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If we really want to build a successful 3-4 , all we have to do is look at the Chief's on how to do it. Just be prepared for a boring road ahead come draft time.Chief's 2008 and 2009 top 5 picks were spent on their defensive ends, Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson. Also in 2005 and 2006 they spent their 1st rounders on linebackers, in Derrick Johnson and Tali. They also got lucky with some great 2008 mid rounders panning out well in Flowers and Carr. So for everyone wanting the flashy picks like Julio Jones, A.J. Green, or Cam Newton, just be prepared for a few J.J. Watt's or Ryan Kerrigan picks. Or just cross your fingers Fairley falls. Dorsey and Jackson haven't lived up to their top 10 pick in the draft. In fact, Dorsey was almost cut. He has struggled, as well as Jackson. ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 09:06 AM ---------- I say give Haslett a break. He really had nothing to work with this season. We don't have a NT we don't have 3-4 Outside LBs ,we dont have 3-4 D Ends, we dont have a ball hawk FS, and Fletcher and Rocky are both adjusting to the 3-4 at MLB. If I was given that bag of goods to turn into a 3-4 style defense I'd probably consider passing to save my reputation. Actually, Carricker is a 3-4 DE. He played the position at Nebraska. The last 2 games he played well. Why? Bryant didn't get pushed back. It starts with the NT in the 3-4. The Skins can build around Carricker and Bryant. ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 09:08 AM ---------- ^^^^ Bryant and Carriker both played in 4-3 prior so they could play DT if we switched back, get AH back on board (if possible). Carriker failed in the 4-3 defense, thats why he was traded. He played the 3-4 in college. Haynesworth? Come on, dude! Its over. ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 09:12 AM ---------- I was not a fan of the switch last spring and I'm not a fan of it now. In my opinion the 3-4 is highly overrated by fans. Success defensively is more a factor of finding the right personnel and playing to their strengths than it is some magical scheme. However we have started a transition and consistency and continuity are more important than what scheme we choose to run. If you can't see that then you are the one that is clueless. 3-4 isn't overrated. There is a reason why teams are switching to the defense. ---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 09:19 AM ---------- Our defense need much more than a NT and an OLB lmao, are you kidding me, we need an entire new DL plus one ILB, one OLB, one SS, one CB. That is a grand total of 7 new players but not just any players we need studs. Now tell me how in the hell do you fix that in one off season. If you ask me this is freaking sad!!!!! The team can build around Carricker and Bryant. Those 2 played very well down the stretch. How do you fix it in one offseason? Draft and FA!! There will be more turnover on this roster. You can count on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper 21 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 study the ravens or steelers not the cheifs also try the jets patriots, packers chargers any of these other great defenses will do as well. It starts up front not with big names necessarily at first these guys need to be hungry to create thier own names in the system, does not need to be expensive... yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^^^^ Bryant and Carriker both played in 4-3 prior so they could play DT if we switched back, get AH back on board (if possible). And Andre Carter played ina 3-4 in San Fran, he must be a great OLB right? I'm not saying they can't in a 4-3, I'm saying they are better suited for a 3-4. Dorsey and Jackson haven't lived up to their top 10 pick in the draft. In fact, Dorsey was almost cut. He has struggled, as well as Jackson. Dorsey actually rebounded huge this season. 69 tackles and 2 sacks from a 3-4 is pretty impressive. He is a big reason their defense has been improving. Jackson on the other hand has done the exact opposite and struggled heavily this year. 3-4 isn't overrated. There is a reason why teams are switching to the defense The team can build around Carricker and Bryant. Those 2 played very well down the stretch. How do you fix it in one offseason? Draft and FA!! There will be more turnover on this roster. You can count on that. I think it is overrated by fans, not GM's and coaches. It is a perfectly good defense I just don't think it is inherently better than a proper 4-3 scheme with proper personnel. Depending on one gap two gap principles it is basically the same thing anyway. If you look at Wade Phillips 3-4 you'll see it's essentially a 4-3 with a DE standing up. I also completely agree about Carriker and Bryant. Neither are all pros but they are the kind of players that make a 3-4 defense work. Considering they cost us basically nothing they may have been the steals of 2010 for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 He may rotate in there but as he moved to DE when Kelly Gregg got healthy. Look at the depth chart instead of the rosterWell, if you wanna use the Depth Chart Ngata is listed as a DT. Remember, Baltimore runs more of a 4-6 than they do a true 3-4. Pitt, NE, GB, NYJ run a true 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well, if you wanna use the Depth Chart Ngata is listed as a DT. Remember, Baltimore runs more of a 4-6 than they do a true 3-4. Pitt, NE, GB, NYJ run a true 3-4. I looked on nfl.com depth chart and it has him at DE. I watched the game and thay had him at DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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