The Hokies are the Philadelphia Eagles of College Football

[Drew_Fl]

Drew_Fl everyone. He'll be here all week.

Keep making Bobby Bowden jokes if you want. They will serve you well when you realize that FSU took the last decade off because they kept Bobby around, and now that he's been replaced with a competent HC who follows Saban's model of program building, things are drastically different in Tallahassee compared to how they've been in recent years.

FSU has an excellent shot at pulling in the #1 recruiting class in the country this year (and possibly their best class in at least a decade) and has 6 commits playing tonight in the Under Armour All American game and will likely finish this class with 13 or 14 of the ESPN150 recruits, more than any other program in the country.

FSU's problem over the years hasn't been talent- it's been terrible coaching, conditioning, and player development with the high school talent they've had.

Meanwhile, the book is out on VT. Bud Foster's "lunch pail" defense peaked in 06 and 07 when he was still considered a truly "hot" DC coordinator and his style of defense featuring small front 7's is not going to beat heavy o-lines with depth, and VT's o-line is too small and weak to stack up against athletic, large fronts, regardless of Stinespring's play calling.

I think VT will be an excellent program for as long as they want, the way they're currently built. But that's their ceiling. They don't have access to the amount of talent needed to take the next step and they don't have the coaching or conditioning either.

The next big Hampton Roads thing?

That's EJ Manuel.

You make WAY too many assumptions, but it's ok b/c i see your biased. FSU used to be great b/c they practically had an NFL team on the field at their best. FSU's downfall is primarily from the other FLA schools snatching up talent, especially after the ACC expanded and FSU wasn't the only show in town besides the Gators.

Honestly I would love to see FSU back to the level they were b/c then maybe the ACC could get on par with the SEC and Pac 10. But the way you try to sell everyone that FSU all the sudden has everything figured out, it's just wrong. I don't see how FSU is a better team next year losing the guys they are. If these recruiting classes are as good as you say they are, then obviously maybe in a couple years when these guys actually get on the field.

FACT: The only good teams FSU played last season, they lost to them. This team is not as good as you think.

[Sticksboi05]

ix - Virginia Tech is only relevant because Florida State and Miami have taken the decade off.

[bushwack]

The next big Hampton Roads thing?

That's EJ Manuel.

He very well could be, but I'm interested to see what, if anything, Phillip Sims from Oscar Smith in Chesapeake, can do at Alabama.

[Hdf561]

I flat out love it..........EVERY Tech Fan I know is a pompus AHOLE, and I love when they fall flat on there face in the big games. Always overrated and they belive the hype.....wow you won the ACC its a baskeball conference....ACC has been garbage the past decade, let us not forget Tech did not win the ACC last season, they were not even the 2nd best team as they didnt even play for a championship.

Everyone knows that teams get bowl births based on following not talent. Notre Dame always gets offers cause people will go follow them, and they have not been good in a while.

I'm trying to be respectful since this is a Redskins forum and we all are fans of the Skins, but I wonder did any of you go to Tech? I personally compare someone who roots for a college team they didnt go to, similar to that of a Cowboys fan from Virginia whos never been to Dallas. Where is your buy in. Sure I like College football and I love watching the games but I have no buy in as my college is a Subdivisions school (Eastern Kentucky University in the OVC....we have 2 National Championships BTW) I still root for the Maroon and White cause I went there, but I know people who have seaosn tickets to Tech games, or UVA games that could never get into community college much less a school like either of them. Sure I have been to games, and I like a good game, but the outcome matters not to me as far as fandom, cause I didnt go there, and have no buy in.

I think its time to remeber while I like college sports these are schools, and if I were alumni I wouldnt want "wanna be's" drooling all over my team, and my school and infecting my campus every weekend...just like I dont want Dallas fans coming to Fed Ex....but hey thats just me.

[Drew_Fl]

I flat out love it..........EVERY Tech Fan I know is a pompus AHOLE, and I love when they fall flat on there face in the big games. Always overrated and they belive the hype.....wow you won the ACC its a baskeball conference....ACC has been garbage the past decade, let us not forget Tech did not win the ACC last season, they were not even the 2nd best team as they didnt even play for a championship.

Everyone knows that teams get bowl births based on following not talent. Notre Dame always gets offers cause people will go follow them, and they have not been good in a while.

I'm trying to be respectful since this is a Redskins forum and we all are fans of the Skins, but I wonder did any of you go to Tech? I personally compare someone who roots for a college team they didnt go to, similar to that of a Cowboys fan from Virginia whos never been to Dallas. Where is your buy in. Sure I like College football and I love watching the games but I have no buy in as my college is a Subdivisions school (Eastern Kentucky University in the OVC....we have 2 National Championships BTW) I still root for the Maroon and White cause I went there, but I know people who have seaosn tickets to Tech games, or UVA games that could never get into community college much less a school like either of them. Sure I have been to games, and I like a good game, but the outcome matters not to me as far as fandom, cause I didnt go there, and have no buy in.

I think its time to remeber while I like college sports these are schools, and if I were alumni I wouldnt want "wanna be's" drooling all over my team, and my school and infecting my campus every weekend...just like I dont want Dallas fans coming to Fed Ex....but hey thats just me.

I didn't go to VT but I grew up about 25 minutes from campus, so that's why I root for VT and the Redskins. Now i go to the Univ of Charlotte and we don't even have a football team yet so i still watch and follow VT, but i'm not crushed/overjoyed when they lose/win.

I think geography plays the same role in collegiate and NFL fanhood. At least in my case it does.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I didn't go to VT but I grew up about 25 minutes from campus, so that's why I root for VT and the Redskins. Now i go to the Univ of Charlotte and we don't even have a football team yet so i still watch and follow VT, but i'm not crushed/overjoyed when they lose/win.

I think geography plays the same role in collegiate and NFL fanhood. At least in my case it does.

Also, VT isn't exactly the type of football program that would attract bandwagon fans. I don't see why it really matters why someone likes them. A fan is a fan regardless of why.

[Hdf561]

Also, VT isn't exactly the type of football program that would attract bandwagon fans. I don't see why it really matters why someone likes them. A fan is a fan regardless of why.

Yet we (Redskin fans) have posted and replied to countless threads about Never Been To Dallas syndrome, and the like.....why is it not ok in the NFL, but a knukle dragger who couldnt get into college can root for the local college team, or Someone from Virginia who has no connection to Oklahoma root for them and its cool? Just curious as to the logic?

[WALEOVECHKIN]

He very well could be, but I'm interested to see what, if anything, Phillip Sims from Oscar Smith in Chesapeake, can do at Alabama.

Boyd from Phoebus did good things in the Bowl game for Clemson too...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yet we (Redskin fans) have posted and replied to countless threads about Never Been To Dallas syndrome, and the like.....why is it not ok in the NFL, but a knukle dragger who couldnt get into college can root for the local college team, or Someone from Virginia who has no connection to Oklahoma root for them and its cool? Just curious as to the logic?

I can't explain that logic as I don't care who decides to become a fan of a team as long as they are a loyal fan. Someone growing up 1 minute from FedEx Field can choose to root for the Cowboys (in my mind) as long as that person supports the Cowboys during good years and bad years. I don't really care where someone lives since that's such a minor reason to root for a team (especially these days with access to any information you want...it's relatively easy to follow an out-of-town team).

So, someone living in Oregon and becoming a Hokie fan is unusual and odd, but I don't see it as a problem. Personally, I root for the Hokies (not like I do for the Skins) because I'm married to an alum.

[Skinz4Life12]

I didn't go to VT, i went to GMU who doesn't have a football team, but family members and friends of mine have gone to VT. so those two facts plus the fact that we are geographically located relatively close to VT makes me a VT fan.

[Drew_Fl]

Yet we (Redskin fans) have posted and replied to countless threads about Never Been To Dallas syndrome, and the like.....why is it not ok in the NFL, but a knukle dragger who couldnt get into college can root for the local college team, or Someone from Virginia who has no connection to Oklahoma root for them and its cool? Just curious as to the logic?

Dallas won 3 super bowls in a very quick span and became the popular choice. VT has won 0 championships and remain an unpopular choice to people outside of VA and alumni. No comparison here.

[Hdf561]

I can't explain that logic as I don't care who decides to become a fan of a team as long as they are a loyal fan. Someone growing up 1 minute from FedEx Field can choose to root for the Cowboys (in my mind) as long as that person supports the Cowboys during good years and bad years. I don't really care where someone lives since that's such a minor reason to root for a team (especially these days with access to any information you want...it's relatively easy to follow an out-of-town team).

So, someone living in Oregon and becoming a Hokie fan is unusual and odd, but I don't see it as a problem. Personally, I root for the Hokies (not like I do for the Skins) because I'm married to an alum.

Ok, But I think you proved my point, you have buy in for the Hokies, albeit through your wife but buy in none the less.....I would say that you are not the typical Redskins fan, as from what I have seen on here people trash fans of other teams with thos unusual circumstances you mention (Oregon guy becoming tech fan).

[Popeman38]

I flat out love it..........EVERY Tech Fan I know is a pompus AHOLE, and I love when they fall flat on there face in the big games. Always overrated and they belive the hype.....wow you won the ACC its a baskeball conference....ACC has been garbage the past decade, let us not forget Tech did not win the ACC last season, they were not even the 2nd best team as they didnt even play for a championship.

Everyone knows that teams get bowl births based on following not talent. Notre Dame always gets offers cause people will go follow them, and they have not been good in a while.

I'm trying to be respectful since this is a Redskins forum and we all are fans of the Skins, but I wonder did any of you go to Tech? I personally compare someone who roots for a college team they didnt go to, similar to that of a Cowboys fan from Virginia whos never been to Dallas. Where is your buy in. Sure I like College football and I love watching the games but I have no buy in as my college is a Subdivisions school (Eastern Kentucky University in the OVC....we have 2 National Championships BTW) I still root for the Maroon and White cause I went there, but I know people who have seaosn tickets to Tech games, or UVA games that could never get into community college much less a school like either of them. Sure I have been to games, and I like a good game, but the outcome matters not to me as far as fandom, cause I didnt go there, and have no buy in.

I think its time to remeber while I like college sports these are schools, and if I were alumni I wouldnt want "wanna be's" drooling all over my team, and my school and infecting my campus every weekend...just like I dont want Dallas fans coming to Fed Ex....but hey thats just me.

I didn't go to Tech. I root for them. I have been to campus at least 100 times in my life. I used to watch them practice outside Lane on the practice fields. I used to go to games before the expansions, when VT was nothing.

Is VT on par with UF or Alabama? No, not at all. At least not when UF or Alabama is at their best. VT would be a middle of the pack SEC team. But so would every team that is not in the SEC. Not really a fair comparison. Frank Beamer has built a very good, respected program. Bud Foster has a tradition of Defense. Wanna knock VT/Beamer? Go ahead. When your team is playing Northeast Louisiana Institute of Technology, he is playing a home-n-home with LSU, Texas A&M. Opening the season with Alabama and Boise St. Future home-n-home with Pitt, Kansas St, Wisconsin. Take a look at the SECs out of conference schedule. Outside UF-FSU, it is a joke.

[Hdf561]

Dallas won 3 super bowls in a very quick span and became the popular choice. VT has won 0 championships and remain an unpopular choice to people outside of VA and alumni. No comparison here.

Plenty comparison here, lets take VT out of it, Im from Va but what if I rooted for Miami, I have no buy in to Miami, never even been to Miami, yet they won a bunch of titles so I root for them.

To me that scenario does not make sense, just like go who didnt go to Tech, UVA or any school rooting for a college team, why whats the connection? I just dont get it, and I guess I never will....I root for The SKins, Nationals, Capitals, and EKU, they are the closest teams to Richmond Va, and I went to EKU.....thats my buy in. Makes sense to me, but I guess Im the only one.

[lovetoaster]

He very well could be, but I'm interested to see what, if anything, Phillip Sims from Oscar Smith in Chesapeake, can do at Alabama.

I thought he was transferring...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Makes sense to me, but I guess Im the only one.

Not necessarily the only one...but you have to keep an open mind. I don't really care WHY someone BECOMES a fan of any team (and I think you'll find this same sentiment everywhere on this board). It's more important to me that they stay with that team and not bounce around to just the good teams.

I know a guy who came to this country and picked his NFL team out of one of those gumball machines that spit out NFL helmets. This was in the 1980s and he got stuck with the Seahawks. It took a long time for that to pay off and, even then, I wouldn't call the run they had a few years ago all that great. But, he's a Seahawks fan to this day so he's a true, legitimate fan. Even though he never grew up or visited Seattle, why is his fandom (or whatever the word is) any less valid than some Birkenstock-wearing dude from Washington state?

[Skinz4Life12]

To me that scenario does not make sense, just like go who didnt go to Tech, UVA or any school rooting for a college team, why whats the connection? I just dont get it, and I guess I never will....I root for The SKins, Nationals, Capitals, and EKU, they are the closest teams to Richmond Va, and I went to EKU.....thats my buy in. Makes sense to me, but I guess Im the only one.

I didn't go to VT, i went to GMU who doesn't have a football team, but family members and friends of mine have gone to VT. so those two facts plus the fact that we are geographically located relatively close to VT makes me a VT fan.

[bushwack]

I thought he was transferring...

Where did you read or hear this from? The last article I read stated rumors about Sims transferring and he had a drug problem and was being suspended, but seemed to be only rumors. The article has a quote from his father (since Saban doesn't allow freshman to talk to the media), stating “We had a meeting with coach Nick Saban on Monday and he said (Phillip) will be ready to take over this team when they come out of the bowl game,” Jeffrey Sims said. “From talking to people down here they believe No. 14 (Phillip’s number) is going to bring them a national title. They love him down here.”

Here is a link to the entire article:

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/11/football-former-oscar-smith-quarterback-phillip-sims-doing-well-alabama

On a side note, I know that Penn State 3rd string QB Kevin Newsome from Western Branch (my HS) in Chesapeake, is transferring from Penn State due to lack of playing time, and I'm hoping he decides to come to the FCS level so he doesn't have to sit out a year and come back home and play for ODU. Because he would be an automatic upgrade over senior QB Thomas DeMarco.

[lovetoaster]

Where did you read or hear this from? The last article I read stated rumors about Sims transferring and he had a drug problem and was being suspended, but seemed to be only rumors. The article has a quote from his father (since Saban doesn't allow freshman to talk to the media), stating “We had a meeting with coach Nick Saban on Monday and he said (Phillip) will be ready to take over this team when they come out of the bowl game,” Jeffrey Sims said. “From talking to people down here they believe No. 14 (Phillip’s number) is going to bring them a national title. They love him down here.”

Here is a link to the entire article:

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/11/football-former-oscar-smith-quarterback-phillip-sims-doing-well-alabama

On a side note, I know that Penn State QB Kevin Newsome from Western Branch (my HS) in Chesapeake, is transferring from Penn State due to lack of playing time, and I'm hoping he decides to come to the FCS level so he doesn't have to sit out a year and come back home and play for ODU. Because he would be an automatic upgrade over senior QB Thomas DeMarco.

It had been a little while since I had heard anything about Sims, but I heard that he was upset that they were recruiting a JUCO QB. But I guess that fell through because I do not see one on their commitment list.

I am interested to see what happens to Newsome. Who knows, I have heard talk about Virginia, ODU and JMU.

[ixcuincle]

Lol nearly all the VT fans I see here went to there, including me

It wouldn't make any sense for me to bandwagon on them if I didn't attend the university myself and sit in the Lane Stadium metal bleachers

[renaissance]

Plenty comparison here, lets take VT out of it, Im from Va but what if I rooted for Miami, I have no buy in to Miami, never even been to Miami, yet they won a bunch of titles so I root for them.

To me that scenario does not make sense, just like go who didnt go to Tech, UVA or any school rooting for a college team, why whats the connection? I just dont get it, and I guess I never will....I root for The SKins, Nationals, Capitals, and EKU, they are the closest teams to Richmond Va, and I went to EKU.....thats my buy in. Makes sense to me, but I guess Im the only one.

Sports are generally more enjoyable if you have some kind of rooting interest, and many people either didn't go to college or went to non D1 football schools. I have no problem with these people choosing a team. In most cases, I think they choose a regional team or a team which they have some kind of tie to - friends or family went there, their fav NFL player went there, they really like the school's traditions, etc. I really don't see what the problem is with this. Do you also take issue with someone in Iowa picking a random NFL team to root for?

[Spartacus87]

You make WAY too many assumptions, but it's ok b/c i see your biased. FSU used to be great b/c they practically had an NFL team on the field at their best. FSU's downfall is primarily from the other FLA schools snatching up talent, especially after the ACC expanded and FSU wasn't the only show in town besides the Gators.

This was not FSU's downfall, at all, in any way, shape, or form.

Talent was never an issue for FSU. Never.

The "Big 3" in Florida that has been dividing the talent up has always been Florida, FSU, and Miami, for a solid almost 30 year run. It really doesn't make any sense to suggest that because Miami joined the ACC in expansion, things became harder for FSU.

In fact, FSU lobbied for Miami to join the ACC, because Miami was previously able to get recruits who FSU couldn't because Miami was able to get them in under looser academic restrictions in the Big East, compared to what FSU was dealing with in the ACC. So FSU wanted to level that playing field out.

And anyways, FSU's downfall was a systemic collapse that came from Bobby Bowden turning into a bitter man who put himself and his sons before Florida State, resulting in lazy coaching and poor recruiting for elite kids (Bowden standing up Percy Harvin for a scheduled in-home visit so he could do a paid speaking engagement instead comes to mind...that really came back to haunt FSU).

I always laugh when VT fans act like Stinespring is the worst person to happen to offensive coordinating. At least Stinespring can recruit. And Stinespring might be bad at play calling, but not SO bad that it's really hampered VT that severely.

FSU fans would have traded Jeff Bowden for Stinespring in a heartbeat, and then VT fans could experience absolutely terrible play calling and offensive scheming. And awful recruiting efforts on top of it all.

I mean honestly- FSU, by 2006, was easily one of the most poorly coached and conditioned teams in the ACC. They had Mickey Andrews at DC, Kevin Steele (Clemson's current DC) as LBs coach, and Odell Haggins coaching the DTs. Those are the only 3 coaches on that entire staff that any other team in the conference would have hired. And the offensive coaching just flat out didn't exist.

That was just one part of why FSU fell into mediocrity for about a decade. If anything, UF benefited from FSU (and Miami) being unable to stop screwing things up because they had a better pick of talent as the only legit program in the state.

Honestly I would love to see FSU back to the level they were b/c then maybe the ACC could get on par with the SEC and Pac 10. But the way you try to sell everyone that FSU all the sudden has everything figured out, it's just wrong. I don't see how FSU is a better team next year losing the guys they are. If these recruiting classes are as good as you say they are, then obviously maybe in a couple years when these guys actually get on the field.

FSU doesn't lose anyone of real note next year except Christian Ponder and Rodney Hudson. Two guys. That's it. And Ponder's backup, EJ Manuel, was one of the most highly recruited QBs in the country a few years ago and is 4-2 as a starting QB for FSU (including as the Gator Bowl MVP against WVU) and came in during the Chick-Fil-A Bowl against South Carolina after Ponder suffered a concussion, before leading the game sealing TD drive basically on his own. So as much as I love Ponder and everything he's done for FSU (easily one of FSU's best/most important QBs ever), I'm not that worried about replacing him.

And it's not like FSU is just bringing in an absolutely stacked class this year. They brought in a top 10 class last year and a top 15 class in 2009.

FACT: The only good teams FSU played last season, they lost to them. This team is not as good as you think.

FACT: VT finished their regular season 11-2 with a strength of schedule of 27, based on Football Outsiders FEI index (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/fei), compared to FSU finishing in-season at 9-4 with a strength of schedule of 11. Not a big difference there.

And VT capped it off by getting murdered by Stanford while FSU at least beat the SEC East champions. So I'm not really sure what your point is.

FSU ended up with a final record of 10-4. First time they've won 10 games in a season since 2003, and first time they've won the Atlantic Division in the ACC since 2005, and they did it in the first year with a new HC.

FSU in fact ended up as a better team than I predicted- I said they'd finish with 7 or 8 wins in-season, not 9 and then a bowl win on top of it.

Also, FACT: Every time VT plays an elite team, they get their asses kicked. So it's probably better for the conference if a team that has easy access to the elite talent needed to compete against the top 5 teams that VT can't beat, actually was able to get and coach that talent so people could stop joking on the ACC's BCS record.

I never said VT sucks and is about to go downhill. I said they'll continue to be an excellent program. But I'm not going to be surprised if they only win 1 out of every 3 or even 4 ACC titles from here on out, because the rest will be going to the Seminoles.

[Drew_Fl]

This was not FSU's downfall, at all, in any way, shape, or form.

Talent was never an issue for FSU. Never.

The "Big 3" in Florida that has been dividing the talent up has always been Florida, FSU, and Miami, for a solid almost 30 year run. It really doesn't make any sense to suggest that because Miami joined the ACC in expansion, things became harder for FSU.

In fact, FSU lobbied for Miami to join the ACC, because Miami was previously able to get recruits who FSU couldn't because Miami was able to get them in under looser academic restrictions in the Big East, compared to what FSU was dealing with in the ACC. So FSU wanted to level that playing field out.

And anyways, FSU's downfall was a systemic collapse that came from Bobby Bowden turning into a bitter man who put himself and his sons before Florida State, resulting in lazy coaching and poor recruiting for elite kids (Bowden standing up Percy Harvin for a scheduled in-home visit so he could do a paid speaking engagement instead comes to mind...that really came back to haunt FSU).

I always laugh when VT fans act like Stinespring is the worst person to happen to offensive coordinating. At least Stinespring can recruit. And Stinespring might be bad at play calling, but not SO bad that it's really hampered VT that severely.

FSU fans would have traded Jeff Bowden for Stinespring in a heartbeat, and then VT fans could experience absolutely terrible play calling and offensive scheming. And awful recruiting efforts on top of it all.

I mean honestly- FSU, by 2006, was easily one of the most poorly coached and conditioned teams in the ACC. They had Mickey Andrews at DC, Kevin Steele (Clemson's current DC) as LBs coach, and Odell Haggins coaching the DTs. Those are the only 3 coaches on that entire staff that any other team in the conference would have hired. And the offensive coaching just flat out didn't exist.

That was just one part of why FSU fell into mediocrity for about a decade. If anything, UF benefited from FSU (and Miami) being unable to stop screwing things up because they had a better pick of talent as the only legit program in the state.

FSU doesn't lose anyone of real note next year except Christian Ponder and Rodney Hudson. Two guys. That's it. And Ponder's backup, EJ Manuel, was one of the most highly recruited QBs in the country a few years ago and is 4-2 as a starting QB for FSU (including as the Gator Bowl MVP against WVU) and came in during the Chick-Fil-A Bowl against South Carolina after Ponder suffered a concussion, before leading the game sealing TD drive basically on his own. So as much as I love Ponder and everything he's done for FSU (easily one of FSU's best/most important QBs ever), I'm not that worried about replacing him.

And it's not like FSU is just bringing in an absolutely stacked class this year. They brought in a top 10 class last year and a top 15 class in 2009.

FACT: VT finished their regular season 11-2 with a strength of schedule of 27, based on Football Outsiders FEI index (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/fei), compared to FSU finishing in-season at 9-4 with a strength of schedule of 11. Not a big difference there.

And VT capped it off by getting murdered by Stanford while FSU at least beat the SEC East champions. So I'm not really sure what your point is.

FSU ended up with a final record of 10-4. First time they've won 10 games in a season since 2003, and first time they've won the Atlantic Division in the ACC since 2005, and they did it in the first year with a new HC.

FSU in fact ended up as a better team than I predicted- I said they'd finish with 7 or 8 wins in-season, not 9 and then a bowl win on top of it.

Also, FACT: Every time VT plays an elite team, they get their asses kicked. So it's probably better for the conference if a team that has easy access to the elite talent needed to compete against the top 5 teams that VT can't beat, actually was able to get and coach that talent so people could stop joking on the ACC's BCS record.

I never said VT sucks and is about to go downhill. I said they'll continue to be an excellent program. But I'm not going to be surprised if they only win 1 out of every 3 or even 4 ACC titles from here on out, because the rest will be going to the Seminoles.

I think you have me confused with a die-hard VT fan. I like to see them do well b/c i grew up near there, but thats it. Please don't tell me you actually believe FSU has not had a drop-off in talent over the last decade? Are you serious???? VT has their niche in college football and that's good for them and I believe FSU is capable of more, but they NEED BETTER TALENT. Did the coaches suck? I don't know and neither do you. Were you at practices, in huddles, in meetings??? What we do know is this is not the same kind of talent they had in the late 90's and early 2000's.

You are way too biased to have a debate with. I want FSU to do extremely well, as well as teams like Clemson and Maryland, but to sit here and claim FSU is going to win several ACC Championships in a row when they haven't won any of the last 5 is just boneheaded.

[ixcuincle]

Keep in mind no other ACC team has won a BCS bowl since 2003 other than Virginia Tech

The "new kids on the block" all came and failed. WF was supposed to be the next big thing, as was GT

Both failed to win their bowl

FSU lost to Penn State in overtime

[Spartacus87]

I think you have me confused with a die-hard VT fan. I like to see them do well b/c i grew up near there, but thats it. Please don't tell me you actually believe FSU has not had a drop-off in talent over the last decade? Are you serious???? VT has their niche in college football and that's good for them and I believe FSU is capable of more, but they NEED BETTER TALENT. Did the coaches suck? I don't know and neither do you. Were you at practices, in huddles, in meetings??? What we do know is this is not the same kind of talent they had in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Of course they've had a drop-off since 1994 but few teams will ever be as consistently stacked in talent as FSU's teams of the 90s. That's just not realistic and is a silly bar to compare today's recruiting to.

If the Hurricanes were to hold their talent standard to their 2001 championship squad, they might as well pack in the program now. Recruiting as a whole has changed dramatically with the explosion of the internet and Rivals and video streams of high school playoffs, so teams can't just pull out local studs who nobody outside of a 200 mile radius has heard of before. So no, I don't think FSU's talent for most of this decade compares to FSU's talent during their streak of top 5 finishes. That's a dumb point to suggest. And something I didn't say. However, FSU's talent by today's standards, compared to the monopoly they were able to maintain in the 90s over most of the rest of the country, has been fairly excellent. FSU and Miami have both averaged out as top 10 recruiting programs of the last decade by Rivals rankings (although both programs' coaching issues spoiled that).

And yes, I actually do know a lot about the coaching issues and organizational problems that FSU has dealt with in recent years. You might want me to prove my connections or something, but I honestly don't care whether you believe it or not since there's no really good way to explain how I know what I know, without sounding like I'm trying to brag or like I'm just making it up. But that's not my problem either. I don't claim to know a lot about what goes on in other programs, but I do know a lot about what goes on inside FSU, and more importantly in this case, what's happened there since about 2007, when Jimbo Fisher came in and began his overhaul of the program from Bowden's ways into a more Nick Saban-like structure.

You are way too biased to have a debate with. I want FSU to do extremely well, as well as teams like Clemson and Maryland, but to sit here and claim FSU is going to win several ACC Championships in a row when they haven't won any of the last 5 is just boneheaded.

Yeah, I'm so biased in fact, that I've been saying down in the NCAA forums since 2007 and 2008 that FSU wouldn't be consistently good again until Jimbo Fisher took over as the HC and began fully implementing his plan, around 2011. It's taken 3 or 4 years to get to this point, not like I'm just saying this right now.

It's also entirely irrelevant to this discussion what FSU was doing in the ACC in the last 5 years until now. That's actually "just boneheaded" to make that argument. Different HC, different staff on the defensive side of the ball, different recruiting methods, different strength & conditioning program, different off-season program, different internal controls, different monitoring of the players, I could go on and on.

Alabama hadn't won the SEC in 9 years before winning it en route to a BCS Championship in 2009. WVU hadn't won the Big East in a decade until Rich Rod took over and got things straightened out for them. These things do happen, especially if you have access to the talent needed (like in Florida) and you're actively trying to use that talent correctly. And yet you act like I should be concerned with what FSU was doing in 2006 or 2008 under a totally different regime compared to 2011.

But keep calling me boneheaded if you want.

(For what it's worth, I also think Clemson could be an elite team out of the ACC, but they had their own Bowden HC problem with Tommy Bowden, and they then hired a total moron in Dabo Swinney, from Bowden's staff no less, to be their HC...give them a real HC and they could be very good, fairly quickly, better than VT as well)