It's Dallas week! Keep your "tank the season" talk to youself. (Hello?!? You play to win the game!)

[McD5]

Socrates, I'm hoping for an incredibly physical game, with our Skins ringing some bells all over the field.

I want to see some violent(but relatively legal) hits on the cowgirls.

I also want to see our younger players get a shot, and light it up.

I also want to see us have the best opportunity in the future--when games in December will hopefully count. And that's with a higher draft pick, and easier schedule.

---------- Post added December-15th-2010 at 02:08 AM ----------

I don't get how you can praise Betts for solid work ethic, playing hard, and being committed to the team, when you yourself wish for the team to tank games just to gain draft position. You think Betts would be ok with purposely losing games just to ge a higher draft spot? If we have players that are ok with losing games from here on out, I don't want them on the team.

---------- Post added December-15th-2010 at 02:02 AM ----------

You think a 5-11 team or an 8-8 team has a better chance at reaching the playoffs the following season?

Can you name a single head coach in the NFL that would agree with you in tanking games?

1. Carlos quit weeks ago. So you don't want him back?

2. I believe a 5-11 team has a better shot in the draft, and with an easier future schedule, than 8-8 teams.

3. A coach that would agree publically while still employed? That might be hard to find. If they lose too many, they are fired. I do believe every NFL executive understands the benefits of higher draft picks. Whether in using them, or in trading them.

[s0crates]

The bottom line is that a higher pick is 10x more desirable than a win in a meaningless game. Both in the ability to choose any player you like, or to trade that higher valued pick to another team.

It's also why my thread "Thank God We Lost To San Francisco" went 90 pages or so years ago. And this one is on page 2.

98% of the fan base has learned, and now just silently nods in approval.

Poll added.

[elkabong82]

Poll added.

that's what she said

[GoDeep81]

Definitely dont want to hear any "lets loose to Dallas for a better pick" crap.. That'll be a good excuse if we do happen to loose, but until that happens DUCK FALLAS!!!! :point2sky:

[Redskins4ever]

Although the Redskins have beaten the Cowboys this season, they are still only one game in front of Dallas. To lose this game and be tied with Dallas at 5-9 for last place would be bad. There should be at least one game where the Redskins pull away and never look back. This should be that game.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Interesting paradox, saying in the thread title to keep all tanking talk to yourself, than asking the question in a poll.

But regardless, McD5 (perpetual fail? Certain posters want to look at their own reputation), is the only person thus far using his head in this thread and looking at the bigger picture and long term future of this team over short term gratification. Those calling him and anyone else with that attitude are thinking with their hearts, and not with their head. Personally, I'm totally down with him in hoping we lose out. There's way too many holes to fill and not enough ammo for that NOT to take precedent. I was happy as Larry last Sunday with the loss and the way most of the other games went in our favour with teams below us winning,

But this is Dallas. And I can't sit there through a Redskins/ Cowboys game wanting "THEM" to win. Totally defeats the object of having a rivalry for me. For those 3 hours or so Sunday, I'll be screaming my guts out at the TV in support of the B&G. But if we lose, as I fully expect us to, rationale will quickly return, and I won't be as bothered as I would of been under normal circumstances.

As for Herm "you play to win the game" Edwards, maybe he should of told that to his players and he wouldn't now be sat doing TV work having been out of coaching the last two years after compiling a not so winning 54-74 record.

Hail.

[Mackdaddydean]

I just had someone surprise me with tickets to the game. So you DANG right I'm rooting for us to win! Is that even a question? Win or lose, its not like our draft pick is going to suck at this point. We aren't going to have a good season record. We aren't going to win out even if we still had something to play for. So I say BEAT DALLAS and let the rest of the season be as it may. This is DALLAS guys!!! We HATE them!! And for my sake PLEASE help cheer on our Washington Redskins so that I may walk out of Cowboys Stadium victorious and hold my head high as the lowly Cowboy fans abandon ship once again!!!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I love the idea that winning another game or two will somehow lead to catastrophic draft results in April lol ...

[s0crates]

Interesting paradox, saying in the thread title to keep all tanking talk to yourself, than asking the question in a poll.

But regardless, McD5 (perpetual fail? Certain posters want to look at their own reputation), is the only person thus far using his head in this thread and looking at the bigger picture and long term future of this team over short term gratification. Those calling him and anyone else with that attitude are thinking with their hearts, and not with their head. Personally, I'm totally down with him in hoping we lose out. There's way too many holes to fill and not enough ammo for that NOT to take precedent. I was happy as Larry last Sunday with the loss and the way most of the other games went in our favour with teams below us winning,

But this is Dallas. And I can't sit there through a Redskins/ Cowboys game wanting "THEM" to win. Totally defeats the object of having a rivalry for me. For those 3 hours or so Sunday, I'll be screaming my guts out at the TV in support of the B&G. But if we lose, as I fully expect us to, rationale will quickly return, and I won't be as bothered as I would of been under normal circumstances.

As for Herm "you play to win the game" Edwards, maybe he should of told that to his players and he wouldn't now be sat doing TV work having been out of coaching the last two years after compiling a not so winning 54-74 record.

Hail.

I see your point about the poll. This thread did not originally have a poll. I only added one in response to a poster who said 98% of fans wanted to tank the season.

I cannot see your point about tanking the season though, for the reasons I have been discussing.

At least you won't be rooting for Dallas, but still, I simply cannot understand the "I hope we lose" attitude.

As for Herm, so what about his record, that speech is dead-on, and apparently a few posters need to hear it.

[elkabong82]

Interesting paradox, saying in the thread title to keep all tanking talk to yourself, than asking the question in a poll.

But regardless, McD5 (perpetual fail? Certain posters want to look at their own reputation), is the only person thus far using his head in this thread and looking at the bigger picture and long term future of this team over short term gratification. Those calling him and anyone else with that attitude are thinking with their hearts, and not with their head. Personally, I'm totally down with him in hoping we lose out. There's way too many holes to fill and not enough ammo for that NOT to take precedent. I was happy as Larry last Sunday with the loss and the way most of the other games went in our favour with teams below us winning,

But this is Dallas. And I can't sit there through a Redskins/ Cowboys game wanting "THEM" to win. Totally defeats the object of having a rivalry for me. For those 3 hours or so Sunday, I'll be screaming my guts out at the TV in support of the B&G. But if we lose, as I fully expect us to, rationale will quickly return, and I won't be as bothered as I would of been under normal circumstances.

As for Herm "you play to win the game" Edwards, maybe he should of told that to his players and he wouldn't now be sat doing TV work having been out of coaching the last two years after compiling a not so winning 54-74 record.

Hail.

Yeah, because those of us advocating winning out certainly couldn't be thinking that doing so will help the team gel, grow into the system further, and end the season on a high note to carry over into next season, instead of a 5-11 team with a big losing streak going into next season. Nope, just short term thinking, no long term at all.

And certainly we aren't thinking with our heads about establishing cohesiveness within the system, we're merely thinking with our hearts, and haven't already explained our position beyond that simplicity in this thread.

Oh, and since Herm Edwards isn't in football right now, that magically invalidates everything he said. In fact, he's probably the only coach advocating winning games regardless of record, every other coach tanks those final games always. Not a single other succesful head coach would prefer winning to losing out because of draft position.

Like I already said, a good personnel man drafts a great player in the first regardless of the spot. Losing out can be damaging to team psyche and cohesiveness, winning out can foster it. Who typically has a better shot at making the playoffs the following season, a 5-11 squad or an 8-8 squad?

[airborneskins]

EFF DALLAS! Who cares if we pick ahead of them?

Go out there and whoop that butt.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Completely and utterly missing the bigger picture on the current state of affairs with the Washington Redskins.

Which is cool, it's your prerogative to chose to believe which ever way would be to the best merit for this team. Heck, under normal circumstances, I'd be screaming louder than most about momentum carrying over to set you off on the right foot the next year. But this isn't one of those situations.

Hail.

[elkabong82]

How is this not one of those situations? We're about to wrap up year 1 of a new regime with a new GM, HC, OC, DC, their respective new schemes, new QB, etc. Shanny himself said we're not ina rebuild, so the best thing from an overall perspective, not merely just POV of higher draft position, would be for the team to finish strong so it can carry over strong for the next season and help solidify the players under the coach.

Isn't a team that finishes with a 3 game win streak to even out at 8-8 in better position, typically, for the following season than a team ending on a 5 game losing streak and finishing at 5-11?

How am I missing the big picture "completely and utterly?" I've acknowledged losing out gives you a higher draft pick, and anyone can derive from it that higher picks increases the likelihood of getting a star player. I've countered it though, but all you've done in here is comment as if I haven't made any points to back my claim up.

-I've shown the positives of winning out, I've shown that great players can be had several spots lower. I'm not missing the big picture, you're simply refusing to even acknowledge the points being made on the other side of the debate. Both sides have merit, yet McD5 and now you completely dismiss anything contrary to your POV in here by calling those who disagree "foolish" "haven't learned yet" "thinking with their heart, not their head" "completely and utterly missing the big picture," rather than actually discussing the points we are making. Rhetoric does not negate valid points.

[Vrikk]

You are saying we will finish with a 3-game W streak. We won't. However, if we beat Dallas I'll be ok. 6-10 will hurt, but 4-12 was harder to swallow. Baby steps with this franchise. Next year we will be 8-8. After that 10-6...

I'm ok with that.

F Dallas. I'll never date someone who is a Dallas fan.

[elkabong82]

You are saying we will finish with a 3-game W streak. We won't. However, if we beat Dallas I'll be ok. 6-10 will hurt, but 4-12 was harder to swallow. Baby steps with this franchise. Next year we will be 8-8. After that 10-6...

I'm ok with that.

F Dallas. I'll never date someone who is a Dallas fan.

I actually did not say we will finish on a 3 game win streak, just that it would be better for the team to finish that way than to finish on a 5 game losing streak. Honestly I don't think we will win all 3 remaining games. I think we can beat Dallas, but I see Jax beating us, and Giants too unless they rest starters.

However, that doesn't mean I'll root for us to lose out just because of draft position. Tho I doubt it happens, I would prefer us to win out. But if we beat Dallas and Giants either straight up or because of them resting players, then we finish 7-9, and 4-2 in the division, I think that is something good to build off of, and changes the perspective of this team, improves it from what it currently is.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Show me where I even suggested anything along the lines of you not "backing your claim up" Elkabong man and I'll give you a cookie. Heck, I'll give you two. While your at it, show me where I don't see both sides when I clearly stated I'm norm\ly a big advocate myself of momentum carrying over from one year to the next.

I didn't counter because there's nothing to counter that wouldn't elicit a response from you less than to debate something in a light hearted thread that doesn't call for any further debate. Aside from the fact we only had a darn thread on this not two weeks back discussing the exact same thing. I tried to diplomatically let it die by saying that was your prerogative to take the counter view and that it was cool; but apparently that doesn't sit well with you as witnessed by your response.

You think I'm wrong by wanting to lose out for the chance at a higher pick. Which is cool, no problem there, But don't take umbrage when someone takes the differing view that in their opinion, your missing the bigger picture on the state of the job at hand right now with this franchise, and what would be for the best.

I appreciate the opposite view, even if I don't agree. Please do the same instead of retorting in a condescending manner that initially resulted in you trying to slight McD's board reputation.

Hail.

[Hazel-Ra]

Die you Dallas dogs, die!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Show me where I even suggested anything along the lines of you not "backing your claim up" Elkabong man and I'll give you a cookie. Heck, I'll give you two.

I appreciate the opposite view, even if I don't agree. Please do the same instead of retorting in a condescending manner that initially resulted in you trying to slight McD's board reputation.

This statement by you may say otherwise:

McD5...is the only person thus far using his head in this thread and looking at the bigger picture and long term future of this team over short term gratification.

In that one sentence, you dismiss opposing views as having any basis in intelligence and of there not being any possible long-term benefits in those posters' scenarios of winning out instead of tanking.

I'm guessing that telling people that is your "lighthearted" way of debating this topic? lol ...

Elkabong more or less went into detail in his follow up post in order to show explicitly that the "try and win out" stance is not merely based on emotions of the moment, and really does have long term effects...now, you could have either acknowledged that there is validity in that notion or show why you feel there really is no validity to his thinking...that's how people who sincerely appreciate opposing views tend to respond...that's how debates are supposed to work, lighthearted or not lol...But ya dint.

[PorkSkins]

"There are three great things in life: Winning the lottery, having a baby, and beating the Cowboys..." - Mark May, after a 41-14 route of Dallas in 1986.

"This is 'DD Day.' That is, 'Defeat Dallas Today!'" -Jack Kent Cooke, Jan. 22, 1983, just prior to kickoff of the NFC Championship

"Plain & Simple - WE HATE DALLAS" - home made sign hung at RFK Stadium during the 1982 NFC Championship game.

NEED I SAY MORE???

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Let's look at that Cali man.

The first piece you highlighted has no connection to the the original sentence you then put up. Saying in my opinion McD was the only person thinking with his head rather than from his heart as regards the bigger picture over one game, after all the flack he was getting, has no relation to the question you highlighted about me apparently asking Elkabong to back up his stance.

As side from the fact that was the first general post of mine in the thread. WHEN Elkabong and I started talking, I openly said I would normally favor the same approach. If that's not validating the opposing view, I don't know what is.

Geez man, there all on the same page. It's not hard to follow, and I know your far from one who would struggle to.

Hail.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

If I may clarify: I don't think anyone here wants the Skins to tank the season to get a higher draft pick. At least I'm not saying that. What I mean is if they lose it won't really matter as much to me because they will be in a better position to get a really good player in the draft.

Do you really expect this team to come out on fire and just light up the cowpies, the way the cowpies have been playing with Passion and fire since Wade was fired? I don't see that out of this team. Maybe it's just because they don't have the talent?

Like I said, I want them to win. I cheer for them to win. I hate Dallas just as much as the next Skins fan, but I don't expect them to win this game.

[Stugein]

Eff Dallas. I want the win. I want the sweep.

[MLiverpool]

The only sad part of this week is I have to watch this game off the internet. Here's to broomin' the bums to the curb! Go Skins!

[KingGibbs]

**** Dallas!!

This is our regular season Super Bowl right here. Hail!!!

Ugh. Opposing fans are laughing as they read the above quote. Hate to break tthe news to some of you, but until both teams can get back to winning ways there is no rivalry and please stop embarrasing the rest of us by treating a completely meaningless game as our "Superbowl."

Of course we love beating the 'boys, but are some of you really going to gloat about it if we win?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Ugh. Opposing fans are laughing as they read the above quote. Hate to break tthe news to some of you, but until both teams can get back to winning ways there is no rivalry and please stop embarrasing the rest of us by treating a completely meaningless game as our "Superbowl."

Of course we love beating the 'boys, but are some of you really going to gloat about it if we win?

Going a little off topic, if somewhat related, that's a very pertinent point on the "rivalry" KG.

Yes, it mean's a heck of a lot to the fans. More so on this side of the divide than down in Texas if truth be told. But to have a true rivalry by it's mere nature you surely need both teams at a high level so the game really means something outside of fan pride. This game hasn't really registered on a National level for nigh on two decades now, which is a sad indictment of both franchises.

It's be nice to be looking forward to a Redskins/ Cowboys game that mattered league wide again.

Hail.