USA Today: Schools enforce year round conduct rules

[AsburySkinsFan]

It's not the school's responsibility to raise your kids. That's the parent's job.

Why is that always left out in these types of arguments?

Why is it always left out of these arguments the fact that the very same people supporting these policies are the very same people who complain that the we have a nanny state. Good gravy people make up your mind.

[DCSaints_fan]

I think alot of you are missing the 'school activities' qualifer... students only have a right to an education.. they don't have a right to be on the football team or in debate club ... I don't see how penalized students have much of a legal argument as long as said policy is non-discriminatory.

[SellersHappens]

I agree with DCSaints_fan in that the policy is Constitutional. Standards for extracurricular activities based on charged conduct do not by themselves violate the 14th Amendment.

With that being said, the policy is truly atrocious and should be repealed immediately, IMHO

[twa]

Anyone else think extracurricular has outpaced curricular to public education's detriment?

I agree with sellershappens it is both legal and excessive

[Bang]

I have no problem with it.

As to that making me a hypocrite because I drank and smoked in high school... here's a clue.

I'm not a hypocrite. I'm an adult. I grew up. Back then I was a stupid kid. THere's a difference. There's a lot of things I did then that I don't want my kid doing now.In fact, I'm trying to give him the exact opposite of my high school experience. I had fun, and no one got hurt, luckily. But for as many times as I was driving around after drinking or getting stoned we were lucky no one got hurt. I'd prefer my son not take the same chances I did, not turn into the pothead I did, not spend his time chasing a buzz. There's plenty of other fun that he can get into, and if hindsight is 20/20, I wish back then I'd have listened to my own advice.

It's funny when you grow up. You realize that some of the things you did were stupid mistakes.

Then some young guy who hasn't achieved this yet tells you you're a hypocrite.

Much as I did when I was a kid.

~Bang

[Tweedr01]

I have no problem with it.

As to that making me a hypocrite because I drank and smoked in high school... here's a clue.

I'm not a hypocrite. I'm an adult. I grew up. Back then I was a stupid kid. THere's a difference. There's a lot of things I did then that I don't want my kid doing now.In fact, I'm trying to give him the exact opposite of my high school experience. I had fun, and no one got hurt, luckily. But for as many times as I was driving around after drinking or getting stoned we were lucky no one got hurt. I'd prefer my son not take the same chances I did, not turn into the pothead I did, not spend his time chasing a buzz. There's plenty of other fun that he can get into, and if hindsight is 20/20, I wish back then I'd have listened to my own advice.

It's funny when you grow up. You realize that some of the things you did were stupid mistakes.

Then some young guy who hasn't achieved this yet tells you you're a hypocrite.

Much as I did when I was a kid.

~Bang

Ding ding ding, exactly right. I was a little wishy washy on the situation because I think the parents need to be the one's to discipline their own kids, but some parents these days don't care enough. They aren't expelling the kids, they are keeping them from doing extracurricular activities. And whats to say that this doesn't hinder a few kids from drinking and driving, which under the previous circumstances these kids would be out driving around drunk and kill someone. We'll never know...thankfully.

Again, agree with what Bang said, not wanting my kids to do what I did in highschool is not hypocritical, it's a parent wanting whats best for their kid. When I was in hs I always thought my parents were out to get me, and that we were just having fun, but what I thought was fun then looks completely stupid now. I don't want my kids to do what I did, if that's hypocritical then I'll be the biggest hypocrit(lol, sp?) ever!

[jpillian]

I feel it may be legal, but it is a trend that definitely needs to be reversed. The public schools' mandate and jurisdiction should end at school and school activity. Outside of that, it's simply encroachment into a part of students' lives (and students' families lives) that is overbearing, futile, and useless.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I feel it may be legal, but it is a trend that definitely needs to be reversed. The public schools' mandate and jurisdiction should end at school and school activity. Outside of that, it's simply encroachment into a part of students' lives (and students' families lives) that is overbearing, futile, and useless.

I agree.

[Popeman38]

How old were you when you had your first drink or smoke?

You of course do not have to answer that, however if the answer is "before it was legal" you're an absolute hypocrite.

If your answer is "after it was legal" or "never" you qualify as either a saint or a nerd. Possibly both.

No, I am not. The school does not say that if you are caught smoking or drinking you will be expelled. They say that you will not be able to participate in school related activities - i.e. sports. I signed a code of conduct in high school. I played sports. I also did my share of partying - all the while knowing if I got caught I would be kicked off the teams I played on.

The people claiming that this policy somehow violates the Constitution, what are you currently smoking? There is no right to play sports. It is illegal to drink under 21 and smoke under 18. If caught in public you are violating federal and state statutes as well as a school policy. Just like people do when they post inappropriate stuff to Facebook and get fired.

I am not a hypocrite. I just believe that kids need to be held responsible for their actions.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Let's replace the nanny state with nanny schools! Yay!

[Popeman38]

Let's replace the nanny state with nanny schools! Yay!

Umm, what are schools supposed to be doing? They are there to educate our children and {GASP} keep an eye on them. Part of education is teaching them that there are consequences for actions.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Umm, what are schools supposed to be doing? They are there to educate our children and {GASP} keep an eye on them. Part of education is teaching them that there are consequences for actions.

And in the next breath you're going to tell me that the government needs to stay out of our lives. Your congative dissonace must be blissful.

I want my school to teach my children the 3 R's (plus art, gym etc) and do that well, which apparently they aren't and you want to pile more responsiblities on the schools that are already overloaded...what a great idea. Schools need to get back to the basics of education and stop worrying about every single aspect of the student's lives, let their parents do that.

No nanny schools! A school has zero right to tell my child what they can or cannot do when they are not on campus or on school sponsored activities...NONE. Once they are off campus they are the parent's responsibility, if kids are drinking and smoking in their private time then call the cops.

[Bang]

I much prefer nanny schools, if that is what you want to call them.

I went to Suitland high school. My experience there was not good. I got a poor education, dealt with drugs, and the criminal element in my school had more sway than any administrator or teacher did. My downward spiral began in middle school (or Jr. high as we called it then.) Schools were rough, kids were bad, teachers didn't care. Teachers were actually in danger. (I recall in 8th grade watching a kid who should have been in 11th grade shove the art teacher into the supply room and all but rape her. Other thugs hung around the door to keep her in and everyone else out. I spent most of my school life just trying to survive, both literally and figuratively. Studies and succeeding were so far out of my priorities i don't even think they existed. All I wanted was to be out of there.

My son is now in high school, and the approach I'm seeing is entirely different.

The teachers give a damn. Imagine that. And they give a damn because the school isn't filled with thugs and criminals. And part of the reason why the school isn't filled with thugs and criminals is that starting in middle school, each student is placed into the stewardship of a team of teachers and administrators. This team is VERY involved with the kids and their every day activities at school. They are very involved with their education, beyond just teaching them when they're in their respective classrooms. The kids succeed, which tends to cut down on the thug attitude.

There have been times when my boy has gotten himself in trouble, academically or otherwise, and that team is on top of it, and whenever I've had to go in for a conference, I speak to the entire team, not just one overworked and frightened teacher who just wants to get thru the day, as had been my experience.

Since advancing to high school, this approach has followed, and not only is my son succeeding, the overwhelming majority of the school (a public achool, mind you) is as well. There aren't anywhere near the same problems as there were when I was younger because thy've taken the concept of "no child left behind" literally. They simply don't allow these kids to fall by the wayside. In my day, once you showed that you wanted to be a slacker, they just let you. Sit in the back, put your head down. Get out of my classroom.

Now it's entirely different.

And one reason why is the school decided to take a proactive approach in how they teach, treat and interact with these kids.

You call it nanny.. I call it being responsible to your students.

After all, they are just kids.

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

You call it nanny.. I call it being responsible to your students.

After all, they are just kids.

~Bang

Just about everything you stated has to do with academics, that IS the school's job. If you have thugs and drugs in school then deal with the kids, but once that child leaves the school I as a parent take over for the development of my child, not the school system. If I sent my kids to boarding school I would expect comprehensive care for my child, but not for public school.

[Bang]

Just about everything you stated has to do with academics, that IS the school's job. If you have thugs and drugs in school then deal with the kids, but once that child leaves the school I as a parent take over for the development of my child, not the school system. If I sent my kids to boarding school I would expect comprehensive care for my child, but not for public school.

No it's got more to do than with academics. Kids who succeed in school do not have the outside problems for the most part. Kids are growing, their minds are easily influenced both positively and negatively. It's about putting more positive influence into their lives, it's about the absolutel fact that kids WANT to succeed for the most part, and when they do not, it is almost always because of said outside influences. It's all tied together.

It's awfully nice when someone sits back and states so emphatically that as a parent the'll do this and that and whatever. Not knowing your own particular situation, i can tell you when people say such things they either don't have kids, or they can't remember what is was like when they were kids. Fact is once you do have a kid this age you find out that no matter how close your relationship is, you don't have nearly as much control as you think. Your parents didn't have it over you, why you think you'll hold it over your kid is a mystery.

There's a LOT of influences on your kids than you're most likely not aware of, and if you think for even a second that somehow they don't, you're being extremely naive.

You do have responsibility to your kid. And one of them is to teach them that certain behaviors are accepted and certain ones won't be tolerated. And just like when they're an adult, those behaviors can affect much more than their home life.

Anyway, to break it down, It's not comprehensive care. It is called setting standards. and then proactively doing what it takes to ensure those standards ar met and maintained.

Besides, as a taxpayer who's kid uses public schools, I don't see why my kid's edication has to be compromised ,threatened or even held back because of the kids who can't control themselves, or their worthless parents who use the school as a babysitter and couldn't give two ****s about what junior does. (Theose folks are a lot more common than you may think.)

As you said, boarding schools are available for those who aren't happy with the direction the school is headed.

I've seen it the old way, when all the responsibility was left to the parents. It didn't work. In fact, it failed spectacularly, and n the 30 years since I left school, our academic standing in the world has gotten worse and worse and worse.

And I see it now that schools and parents are working in partnership with each other to help maximize the benefits the school can offer, and teachers are actively working toward the future of these kids, and that goes beyond the bell when they leave their classroom. Your teachers SHOULD care about your kid.

I'll take this way any day of the week. Twice. It's nice when teachers give a damn.

It's funny, On one hand we generally ***** about how the world is going to hell. Every week we see threads about idiot parents, violent kids, and we all lament over it.

But make any changes to try and address it, and oh no, it's the nanny state.

I see it this way. Among industrialized nations our students are lagging behind so many countries it's not even funny.Schools across this country are plagued with drugs and gangs, and not just the ones in the "bad neighborhoods".

And all I'm hearing is that finally taking a proactive stance is bad.

We all have laws we must follow. We all have consequences to our lives for our behavior. You can lose your job, even your freedom if you don't follow some standards.

Why shouldn't it be that every kid in school should not have to learn THAT particular lesson ? Why should they learn that no matter what they do, it's mommy and daddy's problem only? By the time we get to that point, it's already a failure on mommy and daddy's part. that should be obvious.

It's not, If a kid in that school is acting out, it affects my kid, too. So that mom and dad's failure to teach their kid basic right and wrong now has an adverse effect on how I'm raising my son, on his education, hell even on his physical well being, depending on how bad the other kid acts out.

Now how is that fair?

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

I'm sorry Bang but I don't trust schools to do much more than to educate the topics in the book. I love it that teachers and administrators care, but to establish rules that control the life of kids out of school is beyond the scope of a school's responsibility IMO. We've seen the inability of schools in controlling the behavior of students while they are on campus (bullying etc) what makes us so sure that they will do better trying to control the kid's out of school? What's more is that the kids who have connections have and will always use those connections to manipulate whatever system is presented to them, this off campus regulation will be no different. The sports stars will get away with murder while the rest pay the price, heck I saw this in a private Christian college where I was a drom director and caught a student drinking in his dorm, so why should I think that it'll be any different in the public school system?

[Bang]

I'm sorry Bang but I don't trust schools to do much more than to educate the topics in the book. I love it that teachers and administrators care, but to establish rules that control the life of kids out of school is beyond the scope of a school's responsibility IMO. We've seen the inability of schools in controlling the behavior of students while they are on campus (bullying etc) what makes us so sure that they will do better trying to control the kid's out of school? What's more is that the kids who have connections have and will always use those connections to manipulate whatever system is presented to them, this off campus regulation will be no different. The sports stars will get away with murder while the rest pay the price, heck I saw this in a private Christian college where I was a drom director and caught a student drinking in his dorm, so why should I think that it'll be any different in the public school system?

Those issues of bullies are being addressed much more strictly these days, as are the issues with drugs, violence, gangs, and all the other bad things that have infested our public schools. .

We've started to understand that our kids are not automatons, that we don't control them like we think we do. Parents of bullies are usually shocked that their kid acts like that, but if you look a little, you see it's no surprise.

We've seen the effects of saying "it's not the school's business".

Failure. Absolute utter and complete failure.

Gangs, drugs, poor academics,, all of it getting worse and worse and worse over the last 20 or so years.

It's a shame you don't trust the school to do more than read the textbook. I can tell you that if that is your attitude, that is probably all you'll ever see out of the teachers. Understand it's not this big facelss thing called "the school". They're people. And most of them are pretty decent people at that. And most of them sincerely care about what they do. Since he started kindergarten, I've met and worked closely with my son's teachers, and while i haven't been impressed with all of them over the years, the majority of them aregood people who are competent at their jobs and genuinely care about what they'r doing. After all, they ain't doing it to become rich. People become teachers for very idealistic reasons. And if an idealist is allowed to try and create the ideal they envision, they can be very effective. Much more than one who's ideals are met with 'I don't think you're competent do anything except read out of the textbook."

.

My school district is populated by the poorest people in my county, and the schools here do great.

And I believe that is because of the approach of the educators. They get involved. and what do you know, the kids respond.

~Bang

[RansomthePasserby]

I agree with Bang. When you're dealing with kids, you have to be involved beyond the academics.If kids sense you don't care, you're in a losing battle.

[SellersHappens]

It is important to note that extracurricular activities provide safe alternative to lounging around on the streets. Remember the Midnight Basketball effect.

Thus this policy tries to punish students for bad conduct by...giving them more opportunities to engage in illegal conduct. "Taking a stand" is meaningless if the punishment is counterproductive to the end goal. And I personally feel that school policy that focuses more on school reputation than actual consideration for what is best for students is abhorrent.