The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[nuposse87]

Size always matters in basketball. That's why guys like JaVale McGee and Brenden Haywood get 10-12 million per year. Josh Smith is one of the best athletes in the NBA; he is very fast and agile/athletic for a guy his size. He can defend the majority of current NBA players....that's a huge asset to have on a team.

Yah cause then guys like Haddidi should be so awesome. You can be tall as hell, but if you can't put the ball effectively in the basket what good are you to the team? McGee sure as hell isn't warranting his contract thus far, nor is hibbert. I'll give you he is a good defender, but I'm not sure his offensive inefficiencies can be masked by his D. If he played under control and ONLY attacked the basket, sure...but he doesn't.

You obviously aren't much of a basketball guy, haven't been to a game, or maybe you are just plain dumb (do you flip burgers for a living...just curious) because anyone with any kind of basketball knowledge who has been to a game knows it is much different than watching on TV. The cameras don't capture the whole court and all the players at once. When you are at the game you can see plays develop...just like hockey and football. You can watch someone's off the ball movement on offense and defense. It makes a big difference.

First of all, no I do not flip burgers. 2nd of all, there is no difference, you get a more holistic picture of the court, but that also depends on the viewing angle from the TV. Again this isn't a way to objectively judge a player. Having a wizards logo tatted onto you doesn't make you an expert on basketball, just makes you look weird.

a tweener is a player who doesn't fit in as a PF or a SF....doesn't have a true position. Too weak/small to be a PF, or not quick/athletic enough to be a SF. Josh can play both positions at a high level. You don't have to be an outside shooter to be a good SF in the NBA. It definitely helps, but it is not a must. MKG can't shoot and he went 2nd in the draft this year. He is an elite defender and has a high motor....he creates matchup problems and can get to the rim.

To play SF in today's current NBA you need to be able to shoot. At least to be an elite one. He has the size of a big SF but he doesn't have the offensive skill. He's about as athletic as a SF from the outside, but he's just getting older. If he could shoot .35% from beyond the 3 than he should be out there most the time, but this is the only year he's been doing that, and it also is his contract year...kind of skeptical to me. MKG is 19, he actually can improve his shot, he's in that stage of his career, Josh Smith is 27, he is what he is. Some basketball knowledge you're exuding.

it's ignorant for you to think he is bad in the FT category now and that he will not improve. Bwood raised his FT% almost 20% one year because of the shooting coach we employed that year....but you already know that since you watch 90% of games.

If there was a trend upwards, you may have a point, but look at his FT % the last three years. It has gone steadily down. He use to be 72%, but the last two years have been bad. Why should I believe he'll revert back? Oh and what good is it for haywood to shoot 70%+ one year and then go back ****ty shooting? Seems more like an aberration in his FT shooting career arc to me than a trend.

Anyone who can score 17-20 ppg, pull down 8 rebounds, and get 4 assists per game is an elite player. I'll take 8 boards from my SF all day....although he might drop one or two boards if he was primarily a SF for us. You call his TS% bad....but he is barely under the league average. He is just about average when it comes to TS%...and he will be above average once that FT% comes up.

Still not sold that he can be full time SF, so 8 rebounds from him doesn't do much for me. He isn't putting up bad PER stats as far as PFs go....but If I'm going to throw 8 figures to anyone, I'd rather bring in Paul Milsap. He's efficient and a solid player. So you want your "elite" player to have an "average" TS%? You want your elite player to have below average efficiency and be ok with it? How does that not seem like a bad way of justifying that? He'll be slightly better than average if he can fix his FT %. Max money players should be a bit better than average with regards to TS.

None of the guys mentioned in your top three are primarily SFs.....LeBron has been used primarily as a PF this year and last year during the playoffs...they typically play with a smaller lineup so they can utilize all their best players (which are all wings). Carmelo Anthony, like LeBron, plays PF for his team as well....same type situation, they aren't deep in the front court and usually play with a small lineup. Durant is better (obviously). Pierce is just about done, he used to be better, but at this point I wouldn't say so. I agree with you on Batum...I love his game; he is the epitome of a do it all SF, but I find it interesting you know Gay and Smith for being "inefficient" players, yet Batum shoots 42% from the field and you don't seem to have much of a problem with that.

Quickly, LBJ and Melo are 3s that CAN play 4. They've always been traditionally been 3s, and LBJ has always excelled mostly as a point forward than a power forward. I've always thought in Melo's case, he's most useful when there is a stretch 4 next to him, to suck a big defender out (If Amare can actually become that, they might actually present an issue for Miami). Pierce is better right now, but it'll change very soon I imagine. Batum has a higher career 3 point percentage, is asked to play heavy minutes on a POR team that has no depth, has a better assist to TO ratio, WAYYYY better TS, Considerably better eFG%, better oRTG% and he has all these qualities on less usage then Smith, and he's 24. He could conceivably get better in the coming 2-3 years.

Gay and Smith are inefficient, your subjective "analysis" doesn't change the facts. Try again.

Edited February 19, 2013 by nuposse87

[RonArtest15]

Yah cause then guys like Haddidi should be so awesome. You can be tall as hell, but if you can't put the ball effectively in the basket what good are you to the team? McGee sure as hell isn't warranting his contract thus far, nor is hibbert. I'll give you he is a good defender, but I'm not sure his offensive inefficiencies can be masked by his D. If he played under control and ONLY attacked the basket, sure...but he doesn't.

First of all, no I do not flip burgers. 2nd of all, there is no difference, you get a more holistic picture of the court, but that also depends on the viewing angle from the TV. Again this isn't a way to objectively judge a player. Having a wizards logo tatted onto you doesn't make you an expert on basketball, just makes you look weird.

To play SF in today's current NBA you need to be able to shoot. At least to be an elite one. He has the size of a big SF but he doesn't have the offensive skill. He's about as athletic as a SF from the outside, but he's just getting older. If he could shoot .35% from beyond the 3 than he should be out there most the time, but this is the only year he's been doing that, and it also is his contract year...kind of skeptical to me. MKG is 19, he actually can improve his shot, he's in that stage of his career, Josh Smith is 27, he is what he is. Some basketball knowledge you're exuding.

If there was a trend upwards, you may have a point, but look at his FT % the last three years. It has gone steadily down. He use to be 72%, but the last two years have been bad. Why should I believe he'll revert back? Oh and what good is it for haywood to shoot 70%+ one year and then go back ****ty shooting? Seems more like an aberration in his FT shooting career arc to me than a trend.

Still not sold that he can be full time SF, so 8 rebounds from him doesn't do much for me. He isn't putting up bad PER stats as far as PFs go....but If I'm going to throw 8 figures to anyone, I'd rather bring in Paul Milsap. He's efficient and a solid player. So you want your "elite" player to have an "average" TS%? You want your elite player to have below average efficiency and be ok with it? How does that not seem like a bad way of justifying that? He'll be slightly better than average if he can fix his FT %. Max money players should be a bit better than average with regards to TS.

Quickly, LBJ and Melo are 3s that CAN play 4. They've always been traditionally been 3s, and LBJ has always excelled mostly as a point forward than a power forward. I've always thought in Melo's case, he's most useful when there is a stretch 4 next to him, to suck a big defender out (If Amare can actually become that, they might actually present an issue for Miami). Pierce is better right now, but it'll change very soon I imagine. Batum has a higher career 3 point percentage, is asked to play heavy minutes on a POR team that has no depth, has a better assist to TO ratio, WAYYYY better TS, Considerably better eFG%, better oRTG% and he has all these qualities on less usage then Smith, and he's 24. He could conceivably get better in the coming 2-3 years.

Gay and Smith are inefficient, your subjective "analysis" doesn't change the facts. Try again.

I agree with all of your points regarding Smith. ESPECIALLY the part about SFs in today's NBA. They have to be able to stretch the floor. Josh Smith, for all his athleticism, doesn't do that. If he can keep the overwhelming majority of his shots in or near the paint, that's fine...but what's the saying about not being able to change a zebra's stripes? At 27, what have we seen from Josh Smith that shows he has improved drastically from season to season? He is what he is...there's nothing wrong with that, but he wouldn't be a good fit on this roster going forward. ESPECIALLY since he's looking to command a max deal. Do we really want Smith getting that money from the Wizards? There's a reason why Atlanta is trying to drive the market for him. Danny Ferry is no dummy.

[nuposse87]

apparently MIL is a front runner for him...which is a massive relief. With any lucky he could go to the bucks, completely **** that team up and leave the 8th spot open for like a 37 win team. That would be our most hopeful scenario in any Josh Smith trade.

[RonArtest15]

apparently MIL is a front runner for him...which is a massive relief. With any lucky he could go to the bucks, completely **** that team up and leave the 8th spot open for like a 37 win team. That would be our most hopeful scenario in any Josh Smith trade.

How much more stupid would we look if we end up trading for Smith but were unwilling to trade the #3 for Harden?

SMH.

[Gator Bait]

Yah cause then guys like Haddidi should be so awesome. You can be tall as hell, but if you can't put the ball effectively in the basket what good are you to the team? McGee sure as hell isn't warranting his contract thus far, nor is hibbert. I'll give you he is a good defender, but I'm not sure his offensive inefficiencies can be masked by his D. If he played under control and ONLY attacked the basket, sure...but he doesn't.

this is getting really redundant, but I'm suborn and currently bored, so I'll continue to play along....

I never said all you need is size in the NBA, I said size matters....as in big guys who don't completely suck are gonna get paid! You think Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion would have gotten the contracts they had gotten if they were 6'6....no..of course not. You keep pointing out his "offensive inefficiencies" when the fact remains that he is not inefficient. He currently has a 46% FG average....that isn't great, but it isn't bad either. As Steve pointed out earlier....Smith could definitely grow as a player and improve playing along side a PG like John Wall. He is the perfect match...athletic forward who can get up and down the court and play above the rim......everything Vesely was supposed to be, but a player who can actually contribute.

First of all, no I do not flip burgers. 2nd of all, there is no difference, you get a more holistic picture of the court, but that also depends on the viewing angle from the TV. Again this isn't a way to objectively judge a player. Having a wizards logo tatted onto you doesn't make you an expert on basketball, just makes you look weird.

I probably shouldn't have called you a burger flipper...that was a bit out of line. But there is definitely a difference in watching a game on TV and in the arena...especially when you have good seats. Ask anyone on here that have used my tickets (like GACOLB) you can definitely see more when you are at the game.

To play SF in today's current NBA you need to be able to shoot. At least to be an elite one. He has the size of a big SF but he doesn't have the offensive skill. He's about as athletic as a SF from the outside, but he's just getting older. If he could shoot .35% from beyond the 3 than he should be out there most the time, but this is the only year he's been doing that, and it also is his contract year...kind of skeptical to me. MKG is 19, he actually can improve his shot, he's in that stage of his career, Josh Smith is 27, he is what he is. Some basketball knowledge you're exuding.

Paul George and Nic Batum both have lower FG% than Josh Smith...those are two of your "elite" SFs right now (and I agree with you), but it just goes to Show that Smith isn't as inefficient as you can make him out to be. Right now, on a Wizard's team that struggles to put the ball in the basket....I'll take a guy who will score me 18 ppg at 46% ALL DAY! LeBron James was a terrible shooter for most of his years in the league....he just got good at posting up and shooting within the last year. Josh Smith is no LeBron James, I'm just giving an example of a player who relied on athleticism and was successful at scoring by just getting to the rim; his newly developed post moves and outside shot just made him that better. Another example of someone who didn't learn to shoot until his latter years is Jason Kidd. Kidd couldn't shoot worth a **** early on...and he has become a pretty effective outside spot up shooter later in his career. Smith could very well have found the stroke and shoot 35% from beyond the arc for the rest of his career...only time will tell.

back to free throws....coaching has a big impact on this. It was no coincidence that the Wizards went out and signed the guy most famous for working with players on free throws and having Bwood's percentage go up 20%...that was no coincidence. Some guy named John Wooden once said that if a player was able to do something once, they could no doubt do it again....it's just about having the right coaching and proper motivation to get it out of them (I paraphrased of course). If Smith was an average FT shooter....his TS% would be through the roof.

If there was a trend upwards, you may have a point, but look at his FT % the last three years. It has gone steadily down. He use to be 72%, but the last two years have been bad. Why should I believe he'll revert back? Oh and what good is it for haywood to shoot 70%+ one year and then go back ****ty shooting? Seems more like an aberration in his FT shooting career arc to me than a trend.

give him a good FT coach...he'll be back up into the 70s.

Still not sold that he can be full time SF, so 8 rebounds from him doesn't do much for me. He isn't putting up bad PER stats as far as PFs go....but If I'm going to throw 8 figures to anyone, I'd rather bring in Paul Milsap. He's efficient and a solid player. So you want your "elite" player to have an "average" TS%? You want your elite player to have below average efficiency and be ok with it? How does that not seem like a bad way of justifying that? He'll be slightly better than average if he can fix his FT %. Max money players should be a bit better than average with regards to TS.

for a second here...I'll pretend that you are correct about him being inefficient (which he isn't) when it comes to scoring. He is still a very good rebounder and passer and he is elite on defense...I'll take him 10 times out of 10.

Quickly, LBJ and Melo are 3s that CAN play 4. They've always been traditionally been 3s, and LBJ has always excelled mostly as a point forward than a power forward. I've always thought in Melo's case, he's most useful when there is a stretch 4 next to him, to suck a big defender out (If Amare can actually become that, they might actually present an issue for Miami).

Melo has actually played more 4 in his career than 3. NY uses him primarily as a 4 and so did the Nuggets (The Nuggets used to play the lineup of Nene/Melo/JR Smith/Afflalo/Billups a lot. LeBron was a 3 for most of his career, but Miami has found him to be more effective at the 4 (which I actually think is a much better position for him....creates more match up problems when he brings a big man out on the perimeter...and he can dominate just about anyone in the league in the past anyway) This is how he had that 13/14 night a couple weeks ago....he scored just about all those points in the paint posting up and on layups. I will agree with you that they are "traditional" 3s....but that isn't how their teams are using them.

I'll give you the 3/4 argument though. It does make more sense for Josh to play the 4, but he could absolutely play the 3 as well. I like the lineup of Okafor/Nene/Smith/Beal/Wall.....that could be one of the most dominate defensive lineups in recent history, but it's looking like Okafor will be involved with the trade if it does happen....so we'd have to shift Nene to center (which is fine) and put Josh at the 4.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 01:10 PM ----------

How much more stupid would we look if we end up trading for Smith but were unwilling to trade the #3 for Harden?

SMH.

I think it's funny that random message board fodders think they know purposed NBA deals....because the media told them. The Harden deal wasn't cut and dry as advertised...there was more to it.

[RonArtest15]

this is getting really redundant, but I'm suborn and currently bored, so I'll continue to play along....

I never said all you need is size in the NBA, I said size matters....as in big guys who don't completely suck are gonna get paid! You think Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion would have gotten the contracts they had gotten if they were 6'6....no..of course not. You keep pointing out his "offensive inefficiencies" when the fact remains that he is not inefficient. He currently has a 46% FG average....that isn't great, but it isn't bad either. As Steve pointed out earlier....Smith could definitely grow as a player and improve playing along side a PG like John Wall. He is the perfect match...athletic forward who can get up and down the court and play above the rim......everything Vesely was supposed to be, but a player who can actually contribute.

I probably shouldn't have called you a burger flipper...that was a bit out of line. But there is definitely a difference in watching a game on TV and in the arena...especially when you have good seats. Ask anyone on here that have used my tickets (like GACOLB) you can definitely see more when you are at the game.

Paul George and Nic Batum both have lower FG% than Josh Smith...those are two of your "elite" SFs right now (and I agree with you), but it just goes to Show that Smith isn't as inefficient as you can make him out to be. Right now, on a Wizard's team that struggles to put the ball in the basket....I'll take a guy who will score me 18 ppg at 46% ALL DAY! LeBron James was a terrible shooter for most of his years in the league....he just got good at posting up and shooting within the last year. Josh Smith is no LeBron James, I'm just giving an example of a player who relied on athleticism and was successful at scoring by just getting to the rim; his newly developed post moves and outside shot just made him that better. Another example of someone who didn't learn to shoot until his latter years is Jason Kidd. Kidd couldn't shoot worth a **** early on...and he has become a pretty effective outside spot up shooter later in his career. Smith could very well have found the stroke and shoot 35% from beyond the arc for the rest of his career...only time will tell.

back to free throws....coaching has a big impact on this. It was no coincidence that the Wizards went out and signed the guy most famous for working with players on free throws and having Bwood's percentage go up 20%...that was no coincidence. Some guy named John Wooden once said that if a player was able to do something once, they could no doubt do it again....it's just about having the right coaching and proper motivation to get it out of them (I paraphrased of course). If Smith was an average FT shooter....his TS% would be through the roof.

give him a good FT coach...he'll be back up into the 70s.

for a second here...I'll pretend that you are correct about him being inefficient (which he isn't) when it comes to scoring. He is still a very good rebounder and passer and he is elite on defense...I'll take him 10 times out of 10.

Melo has actually played more 4 in his career than 3. NY uses him primarily as a 4 and so did the Nuggets (The Nuggets used to play the lineup of Nene/Melo/JR Smith/Afflalo/Billups a lot. LeBron was a 3 for most of his career, but Miami has found him to be more effective at the 4 (which I actually think is a much better position for him....creates more match up problems when he brings a big man out on the perimeter...and he can dominate just about anyone in the league in the past anyway) This is how he had that 13/14 night a couple weeks ago....he scored just about all those points in the paint posting up and on layups. I will agree with you that they are "traditional" 3s....but that isn't how their teams are using them.

I'll give you the 3/4 argument though. It does make more sense for Josh to play the 4, but he could absolutely play the 3 as well. I like the lineup of Okafor/Nene/Smith/Beal/Wall.....that could be one of the most dominate defensive lineups in recent history, but it's looking like Okafor will be involved with the trade if it does happen....so we'd have to shift Nene to center (which is fine) and put Josh at the 4.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 01:10 PM ----------

I think it's funny that random message board fodders think they know purposed NBA deals....because the media told them. The Harden deal wasn't cut and dry as advertised...there was more to it.

If I'm going off of the media as my source that we turned down the trade and you're going off of the media that there wasn't a deal to begin with, I'm not sure if you're in any place to call someone out for their viewpoint on the matter.

[Gator Bait]

If I'm going off of the media as my source that we turned down the trade and you're going off of the media that there wasn't a deal to begin with, I'm not sure if you're in any place to call someone out for their viewpoint on the matter.

I didn't get my info from the media.

[Skins199021]

Trade Okafor, Booker, Vesely, and a future pick (not the 1st in this upcoming draft)

[nuposse87]

this is getting really redundant, but I'm suborn and currently bored, so I'll continue to play along....

I'd rather avoid studying today so I'll play as well, I'm sure we're both equally stubborn.

I never said all you need is size in the NBA, I said size matters....as in big guys who don't completely suck are gonna get paid! You think Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion would have gotten the contracts they had gotten if they were 6'6....no..of course not. You keep pointing out his "offensive inefficiencies" when the fact remains that he is not inefficient. He currently has a 46% FG average....that isn't great, but it isn't bad either. As Steve pointed out earlier....Smith could definitely grow as a player and improve playing along side a PG like John Wall. He is the perfect match...athletic forward who can get up and down the court and play above the rim......everything Vesely was supposed to be, but a player who can actually contribute.

Regarding size, it can only help in the NBA, but if your game is predicated on a style it doesn't hurt to be slightly oversized or undersized for a position. Millsap is a 6'8 PF, with decent standing reach, but nothing spectacular, but his game is nice. He's fluid, efficient and is able to be a factor. I don't think Josh Smith uses his size well. If you say he is a SF, he should be living in the post all day, just posting up smaller SFs, but he doesn't. He wastes his natural ability. Regarding Vesely, while he a bust for where he was drafted, he still has time to become a "role player" in the NBA. If Josh Smith was Vesely's ceiling, i'm not sure I would have drafted him, AK-47, sure.

I probably shouldn't have called you a burger flipper...that was a bit out of line. But there is definitely a difference in watching a game on TV and in the arena...especially when you have good seats. Ask anyone on here that have used my tickets (like GACOLB) you can definitely see more when you are at the game.

TY, and if you took any offense to my comment about your tattoo, my bad (not a fan of em, but to each their own, prolly my pompous side speaking). I've sat "pretty close" a couple times but honestly, the only opportunity it provides is players off the ball or that are leaking out. With HD experiences I do think live sporting venues do lose some of their utility (for football probably more).

Paul George and Nic Batum both have lower FG% than Josh Smith...those are two of your "elite" SFs right now (and I agree with you), but it just goes to Show that Smith isn't as inefficient as you can make him out to be. Right now, on a Wizard's team that struggles to put the ball in the basket....I'll take a guy who will score me 18 ppg at 46% ALL DAY! LeBron James was a terrible shooter for most of his years in the league....he just got good at posting up and shooting within the last year. Josh Smith is no LeBron James, I'm just giving an example of a player who relied on athleticism and was successful at scoring by just getting to the rim; his newly developed post moves and outside shot just made him that better. Another example of someone who didn't learn to shoot until his latter years is Jason Kidd. Kidd couldn't shoot worth a **** early on...and he has become a pretty effective outside spot up shooter later in his career. Smith could very well have found the stroke and shoot 35% from beyond the arc for the rest of his career...only time will tell.

I believe I've already described how Batum is more efficient, the same applies with Paul George regarding TS, eFG, Ortg, 3 pt % and doing it all on lower usage. Both are also younger, and could conceivably get better. The problem with equating him to LBJ as an example of someone who got better...is that LBJ is HOF level...He had/has desire to be GOAT. You can't say that about Smith, I'm sure he tries, but...LBJ, Kidd, these are some of the true greats. Smith doesn't have that glow about him. If he changes, kudos to him...I'm not sure I want to take that bet though. I'd rather be cautious with the Wiz given how asinine some of our moves have been in the past. Regarding his shooting, I think he'll come back down to like 32-33...which is still an improvement for him...but nothing to really write home about.

back to free throws....coaching has a big impact on this. It was no coincidence that the Wizards went out and signed the guy most famous for working with players on free throws and having Bwood's percentage go up 20%...that was no coincidence. Some guy named John Wooden once said that if a player was able to do something once, they could no doubt do it again....it's just about having the right coaching and proper motivation to get it out of them (I paraphrased of course). If Smith was an average FT shooter....his TS% would be through the roof.

He takes 4 FTs a game, assuming he made one more I don't think he'd break 52% TS. I believe a player his age should have a very high TS (like 55+) to warrant the money he wants.

give him a good FT coach...he'll be back up into the 70s.

Clearly the FO of every team he's been on since that season have missed that memo lol.

for a second here...I'll pretend that you are correct about him being inefficient (which he isn't) when it comes to scoring. He is still a very good rebounder and passer and he is elite on defense...I'll take him 10 times out of 10.

He is a good rebounder for 4, but not elite. He gets assists...but turns it over quite a bit too. His offensive game just need to be curtailed. He's a 6'9 Jordan Crawford who knows how to play D...not a bad player...but a max player? Even if the market will pay him that doesn't logically justify him making that money.

Melo has actually played more 4 in his career than 3. NY uses him primarily as a 4 and so did the Nuggets (The Nuggets used to play the lineup of Nene/Melo/JR Smith/Afflalo/Billups a lot. LeBron was a 3 for most of his career, but Miami has found him to be more effective at the 4 (which I actually think is a much better position for him....creates more match up problems when he brings a big man out on the perimeter...and he can dominate just about anyone in the league in the past anyway) This is how he had that 13/14 night a couple weeks ago....he scored just about all those points in the paint posting up and on layups. I will agree with you that they are "traditional" 3s....but that isn't how their teams are using them.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

every year but this year has been listed as SF. I'm sure he plays small ball when it matters, but I tend to think he spends more his time at the 3 (melo that is).

I'll give you the 3/4 argument though. It does make more sense for Josh to play the 4, but he could absolutely play the 3 as well. I like the lineup of Okafor/Nene/Smith/Beal/Wall.....that could be one of the most dominate defensive lineups in recent history, but it's looking like Okafor will be involved with the trade if it does happen....so we'd have to shift Nene to center (which is fine) and put Josh at the 4.

I'd much rather trade for Millsap. Him and Nene would provide good floor spacing.

[Going Commando]

We can't beat and offer of Monta Ellis and I wouldn't try to.

But I'm a lilttle surprised Danny Ferry would want Ellis.

[Gator Bait]

Millsap is a 6'8 PF, with decent standing reach, but nothing spectacular, but his game is nice. He's fluid, efficient and is able to be a factor.

I like Millsap, I'd take him.

I don't think Josh Smith uses his size well. If you say he is a SF, he should be living in the post all day, just posting up smaller SFs, but he doesn't.

agree...if we traded for him, hopefully Witman's replacement would make this a priority.

Regarding Vesely, while he a bust for where he was drafted, he still has time to become a "role player" in the NBA. If Josh Smith was Vesely's ceiling, i'm not sure I would have drafted him, AK-47, sure.

I have a hard time believing Vesely will ever bee a rotation player. The only thing he seems to do well is get into passing lanes. AK47 was/is a nice role player, but I'd rather have a Josh Smith.

if you took any offense to my comment about your tattoo

nope...don't really care what men think about my body :

I've sat "pretty close" a couple times but honestly, the only opportunity it provides is players off the ball or that are leaking out. With HD experiences I do think live sporting venues do lose some of their utility (for football probably more).

agree with the football part....you can see plays develop, blown coverage etc. Although I like watching football better at home. Hockey is another game that is way different in person...you see a lot more. Baseball you see how infields and outfields adjust to each batter (they don't always show that on TV) and Basketball as I originally mentioned...you can see off the ball movement...which separates the good players from the great players...or the good from the bad. Rip Hamilton comes to mind as a great off the ball player...that guy is constantly working through and around screens to get the open J.

I believe I've already described how Batum is more efficient, the same applies with Paul George regarding TS, eFG, Ortg, 3 pt % and doing it all on lower usage. Both are also younger, and could conceivably get better.

I see the argument on TS% but I still think FG% is very important as well....you can be a really good 3 pt shooter ( 45%) but miss most of your 2 point FGs....your TS% could still be good being that you drain almost half of your threes...but think about the momentum you kill from being a 40% overall FG shooter. You see what I'm saying?

The problem with equating him to LBJ as an example of someone who got better...is that LBJ is HOF level...He had/has desire to be GOAT

.

With LeBron more of it had to do with maturity rather than his skill level suddenly increasing....I think the light just turned on for him last offseason and he humbled himself enough to know he wasn't going to lead a team to a championship without improving his post game/ shooting. Josh needs this same light to turn on in order to reach his potential. I believe a change in scenery could do that for him (as it did with LeBron)

He takes 4 FTs a game, assuming he made one more I don't think he'd break 52% TS. I believe a player his age should have a very high TS (like 55+) to warrant the money he wants.

if his FT% improved...I think the coaches would try to get him in situations where he drives to the Rim more and gets fouled...then he will take more than 4 FT per game.

Clearly the FO of every team he's been on since that season have missed that memo lol.

the FO of most teams have missed many memos....there are only a handful of good ones in the league....we could go on and on about examples...my favorite is definitely Detroit shipping off Billups to get Iverson and then dumping him for cap room to sign Vilenueva and Gordon to long term ridiculous deals.

He is a good rebounder for 4, but not elite. He gets assists...but turns it over quite a bit too. His offensive game just need to be curtailed. He's a 6'9 Jordan Crawford who knows how to play D...not a bad player...but a max player? Even if the market will pay him that doesn't logically justify him making that money.

people in this thread keep calling him a max player....but he likely wont get max money. Look at him as a player....not a player about to get a max contract (because then it is based on assumptions that might and likely wont happen).

every year but this year has been listed as SF. I'm sure he plays small ball when it matters, but I tend to think he spends more his time at the 3 (melo that is).

I'm telling you...he has played majority at PF....I watch the Knicks a lot....because I hate them and love to see them lose. Melo is a three point jacking PF who can't defend anyone. No team will win a championship with him as their best players.....don't get me started on the Melo rants...please.

I'd much rather trade for Millsap. Him and Nene would provide good floor spacing.

I'll take Millsap all day...he's solid, would rather have Josh though.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 02:19 PM ----------

We can't beat and offer of Monta Ellis and I wouldn't try to.

But I'm a lilttle surprised Danny Ferry would want Ellis.

I'm surprised anyone would want Ellis....he sucks....talk about inefficient.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Gator Bait

[Gator Bait]

We can't beat and offer of Monta Ellis and I wouldn't try to.

But I'm a lilttle surprised Danny Ferry would want Ellis.

I'm surprised anyone would want Ellis....he sucks....talk about inefficient.

[Going Commando]

I'm surprised anyone would want Ellis....he sucks....talk about inefficient.

Can't play defense either. He's a good shooter and he's lightning quick but he just can't be anything more than a role player on a top notch team. He's too ball dominant to facilitate the offense as a PG or play off the ball with a top PG.

[Gator Bait]

Can't play defense either. He's a good shooter and he's lightning quick but he just can't be anything more than a role player on a top notch team. He's too ball dominant to facilitate the offense as a PG or play off the ball with a top PG.

I don't even think he's a good shooter...he can score, likely primarily layups and FTs I'd guess.

edit

I just pulled up his shot chart for this season.....he is a layup machine (just as I thought) He is a pretty horrible shooter and his TS% is lower than Josh Smith (who we've been arguing about the past couple days)

this guy is a death sentence for a team.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Gator Bait

[Going Commando]

I don't even think he's a good shooter...he can score, likely primarily layups and FTs I'd guess.

edit

I just pulled up his shot chart for this season.....he is a layup machine (just as I thought) He is a pretty horrible shooter and his TS% is lower than Josh Smith (who we've been arguing about the past couple days)

this guy is a death sentence for a team.

He's definitely an inefficient shooter, that's for sure. I've seen him get hot and really drain it from range, especially pulling up off the dribble. He's a good shooter in the way that Nick Young or Jordan Crawford are good shooters. They can make high difficulty shots and go on streaks. But they also take a ton of bad shots.

You're right, he's too unreliable to be a knock down shooter and a true off guard. Not a good enough facilitator to be a true PG either.

He's born to be a high usage scorer for a bad team that needs a guard to shot jack and fill it up. I don't know why ATL would trade Josh Smith for him. Going big for small? And supposedly Ellis is going to opt out of the final year of his deal anyway and be a FA this summer too.

That trade would be shuffling the deck chairs on a sinking ship.

[Gator Bait]

He's definitely an inefficient shooter, that's for sure. I've seen him get hot and really drain it from range, especially pulling up off the dribble. He's a good shooter in the way that Nick Young or Jordan Crawford are good shooters. They can make high difficulty shots and go on streaks. But they also take a ton of bad shots.

You're right, he's too unreliable to be a knock down shooter and a true off guard. Not a good enough facilitator to be a true PG either.

He's born to be a high usage scorer for a bad team that needs a guard to shot jack and fill it up. I don't know why ATL would trade Josh Smith for him. Going big for small? And supposedly Ellis is going to opt out of the final year of his deal anyway and be a FA this summer too.

That trade would be shuffling the deck chairs on a sinking ship.

I wouldn't call it a good shooter....i'd call it a volume streaky shooter....which is really bad to have unless they are making way less money than Ellis makes (that way you can use him as a 6th man...if he is cold, you yank him out)

Josh is good at many things and Ellis isn't good at anything....I'll take Josh all day on any team over Ellis.

[Destino]

We can't beat and offer of Monta Ellis and I wouldn't try to.

But I'm a lilttle surprised Danny Ferry would want Ellis.

I think it's an issue of "take what you can get". From all reports I've heard every team is low balling because no one wants to give him a max deal and they know the Hawks have to trade him.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 06:52 PM ----------

I wouldn't call it a good shooter....i'd call it a volume streaky shooter....which is really bad to have unless they are making way less money than Ellis makes (that way you can use him as a 6th man...if he is cold, you yank him out)

Josh is good at many things and Ellis isn't good at anything....I'll take Josh all day on any team over Ellis.

He's a gunner. The league used to be filled with them but the recent move towards efficiency has this species on the brink of extinction. I still think gunners make good 6-8 depth chart players.

[Going Commando]

Yeah I agree with both Gator and Destino about Ellis. You can't have a player like that be a starter for you. He needs to be a reserve that you can plunk down on the bench when he starts chucking. It's nice to have his creativity on the second line where he'd probably play against lesser players.

And you can't pay Ellis money like what he actually gets because he's only a reserve on a winner.

Josh Smith is definitely better than Ellis. First off, he's a good sized and powerful 4 instead of an undersized 2. That alone gives him an advantage in usefulness. You can find 2 guards way more easily than 4s. Plus he's a legit starter with 20-21+ PER upside in his good years. And no matter how bad he gets on offense, he's still an elite defender and pretty good rebounder. Ellis has got nothing when his shot isn't falling.

Trading Smith for Ellis would be a pretty damn lopsided deal in favor of Milwaukee.

[StillUnknown]

http://tedstake.monumentalnetwork.com/wittman/index.jsp

Stay with it. Work hard, believe in the system, believe in the players. Don't whine, work harder, defense is the way you earn your minutes.

A very good read on Coach Randy Wittman. I respect what he has done for us in a season where we are truly just becoming a healthy team, and a more confident team. I think this team has character and grit and is greatly improved. Our coach and staff persevered and have shown great leadership in very tough times. Onward to the second half of the season, starting tonight.

We're stuck with him

[Going Commando]

Rebounding well so far tonight but not shooting well.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 07:18 PM ----------

How on Earth was that not a foul on Webster?

[SuperBash]

Good god, Seraphin. I'm glad he's cheap. No way in hell I want the Wizards paying him unless he starts playing smarter and rebound.

[Going Commando]

They aren't calling anything on Toronto tonight.

---------- Post added February-19th-2013 at 07:31 PM ----------

Two dumbass off ball fouls on Seraphin. Bad turnover earlier. Not a good start for him tonight.

[SuperBash]

Wizards need to stop all the fouling.

[Going Commando]

Awful quarter for us.

[CrypticVillain]

What the heck is wrong with the shot clock....