The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Gator Bait]

Irving >>>>Wall. He is a better shooter, better scorer, and just a better basketball player in general. I think both of them are franchise caliber, but if I could trade Wall straight up for Kryie right now...I'd do it 10 times out of 10. As far as the defense argument is concerned...there should be no argument....both suck at defense.

Wall's supporting caste is much better than the Cavs...that's why both teams stink (Cleveland because they have very little talent around Kyre and Washington because our best player was out all year)

Destino....the reason he compared him to Nene is because both have injury histories. Nene hasn't been healthy in three years and Wall has now had a major injury early in his career.

This team (in my opinon) is good enough to be around a 4 seed when healthy for a full year. We should be adding another immediate impact player through the draft or a draft day trade....so we could be very surprising to a lot of folks next year.

[Going Commando]

What I like is that Falk says he has season tickets as if it's proof he follows the team and then it comes out he's only been to four games. He's full of it.

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 01:33 PM ----------

Irving >>>>Wall. He is a better shooter, better scorer, and just a better basketball player in general. I think both of them are franchise caliber, but if I could trade Wall straight up for Kryie right now...I'd do it 10 times out of 10. As far as the defense argument is concerned...there should be no argument....both suck at defense.

Compared to Kyrie, Wall does not suck at D. And Wall has moments when he's dialed in where he is a lock down defender and makes game winning defensive plays. Kyrie is one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

[nuposse87]

Wall's supporting cast is better? They won 5 games w/o him...Wall his faults, mostly his jumpshot, but that and some rather dumb TOs are his only real faults given his experience level.

[RonArtest15]

Like someone said in the comments section on BF:

(not verbatim)

Falk's expertise is making money...not evaluating talent.

*Personally, I don't give a **** about what David Falk thinks. He's had sour grapes w/ the organization for a while.

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 01:53 PM ----------

Its odd to me how Irving only gets praise, but his team is still pretty bad. Wall gets destroyed because the Wizards suck, Kyrie doesn't get that same criticism.

Wall has obvious flaws, but people seem to just glass over the flaws in Kyrie's game.

I notice this as well.

And like I've been saying...the Wall/Irving comparisons are beyond tired. They are two COMPLETELY different types of point guards. One has the ceiling of a prime Gilbert Arenas and the other could turn out to be just like Rondo.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2013/02/14/washington-wizards-go-their-separate-ways-for-all-star-break/

Wizards talking about All-Star break plans, writer slips up in hilarious fashion

Trevor Booker plans to watch his younger brothers play college basketball in South Carolina. A.J. Price will go home to New York. Emeka Okafor will also go to New York and relax with his pregnant wife. Kevin Seraphin and Jan Vesely both plan to go to Miami and spend some time on the bench, but they don’t expect to actually cross paths.

[Gator Bait]

What I like is that Falk says he has season tickets as if it's proof he follows the team and then it comes out he's only been to four games. He's full of it.

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 01:33 PM ----------

Compared to Kyrie, Wall does not suck at D. And Wall has moments when he's dialed in where he is a lock down defender and makes game winning defensive plays. Kyrie is one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

both of them are pretty bad on defense...so it is what it is. Wall makes more spectacular plays (blocks and steals) but he is a pretty terrible defender in general.

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 03:40 PM ----------

Wall's supporting cast is better? They won 5 games w/o him...Wall his faults, mostly his jumpshot, but that and some rather dumb TOs are his only real faults given his experience level.

Um...yeah...MUCH better....

Beal, Okafor, Nene, Webster vs. Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee

....I think we are better at every position besides PG. Cleveland is Horrible w/o Kyrie!

[Gator Bait]

Trade Idea....

The Hawks are trying to move Josh Smith because they don't want to give him max money this summer. They would like salary relief and a young center. I propose we trade them Ariza, Seraphin, and a swap of first round picks in this year's draft for Smith.

Okafor

Nene

Smith

Beal

Wall

...that is not only a playoff roster, but a contender's starting lineup! Smith would a great fit here...a primary scoring option....I can actually see Beal/Smith/Nene/Wall each averaging over 15ppg, which would be awesome to have the scoring spread around like that.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Gator Bait

[Destino]

Smith isn't worth a max deal though. Also is he really shooting 50% from the free throw line this season? I'm hoping that's a glitch.

[nuposse87]

both of them are pretty bad on defense...so it is what it is. Wall makes more spectacular plays (blocks and steals) but he is a pretty terrible defender in general.

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 03:40 PM ----------

Um...yeah...MUCH better....

Beal, Okafor, Nene, Webster vs. Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee

....I think we are better at every position besides PG. Cleveland is Horrible w/o Kyrie!

What were we without Wall then? Not horrible? At least Thompson and Co. are young and have upside. Beal is better than Waiters but I suggest you actually look at Thompson's numbers before dismissing him, dude has made great strides. Gee is no world beater, but he isn't a terrible SF. Point is, all our pieces are VERY dependent on Wall, which is why his success is just as vital to us as Kyrie is to CLE.

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 04:29 PM ----------

Smith is not a 3, and he definitely isn't worth max money. He isn't going to get much better either. The only reason to entertain Smith is we wanted to ship our Nene to clear cap. Doubt ATL would want to that though.

[Going Commando]

I'm against signing Smith to a long term deal. I agree with nuposse, the only reason to deal for him is to clear Nene's cap off the books. Not sure I want to do that either.

Smith is a poor offensive player. His face up game is not good enough to justify how inefficient he is. Signing him to a big deal is more crippling than Joe Johnson's deal was IMO. Joe Johnson was a better all around player when he signed his deal and it was crippling.

Wall and Beal have big deals coming their way eventually.

Our best bet is to get a young and upcoming talent if we are going to commit big money to the guy. Failing that, we've got solid, expensive vets already and we need to be trying to get rookie deals to swing for upside with minimal financial risk.

[Shabby]

Irving has a chance to be the best point guard in the NBA if he has some decent pieces around him. Cant say the same for Wall. Wall is more of a passer, but Until John develops a jumpshot, id pick Kyrie.

[Gator Bait]

Smith isn't worth a max deal though. Also is he really shooting 50% from the free throw line this season? I'm hoping that's a glitch.

dude scores 17 points per game and pulls down 8 boards from the SF position...he is definitely worth the max in a mid market team.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 02:33 PM ----------

What were we without Wall then? Not horrible? At least Thompson and Co. are young and have upside. Beal is better than Waiters but I suggest you actually look at Thompson's numbers before dismissing him, dude has made great strides. Gee is no world beater, but he isn't a terrible SF. Point is, all our pieces are VERY dependent on Wall, which is why his success is just as vital to us as Kyrie is to CLE

I'm not saying that Wall isn't important for our success, but our roster is wayyy better than Clevelands...are you even trying to debate that? You think thompson is better than Nene?

Smith is not a 3, and he definitely isn't worth max money. He isn't going to get much better either. The only reason to entertain Smith is we wanted to ship our Nene to clear cap. Doubt ATL would want to that though

Smith is definitely a 3...and he can play PF in small ball lineups. He is also worth the max in my eyes. He could be the second best player on a contender. I do agree that he isn't going to get much better, but with coaching and an elite PG to play with...he could definitely improve.

Why in the world would be want to ship off Nene? He is our best player and is locked in at under max money for the next 4 years.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 02:37 PM ----------

I'm against signing Smith to a long term deal. I agree with nuposse, the only reason to deal for him is to clear Nene's cap off the books. Not sure I want to do that either.

Smith is a poor offensive player. His face up game is not good enough to justify how inefficient he is. Signing him to a big deal is more crippling than Joe Johnson's deal was IMO. Joe Johnson was a better all around player when he signed his deal and it was crippling.

Wall and Beal have big deals coming their way eventually.

Our best bet is to get a young and upcoming talent if we are going to commit big money to the guy. Failing that, we've got solid, expensive vets already and we need to be trying to get rookie deals to swing for upside with minimal financial risk.

how in the world is Josh Smith inefficient? The guy is a do it all SF. He scores at a .46% efficiency (which is decent for that position) and he rebounds well and passes well. He is also a pretty good versatile defender who can defend on the perimeter and on the block. He has the potential to average 20-10-4 for us and he is only 27.

[nuposse87]

dude scores 17 points per game and pulls down 8 boards from the SF position...he is definitely worth the max in a mid market team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html

He's played the 4 position for the last 6 years. He CAN play the 3, but would you want him to? He's a career .288% shooter from 3 point land, that is BAD.

I'm not saying that Wall isn't important for our success, but our roster is wayyy better than Clevelands...are you even trying to debate that? You think thompson is better than Nene?

Nene is better than Thompson right now, that is obvious, but look at thompson's stat line: Per 36: 13-10-1.5-1-1, on 53% TS and on 17% usage. The best part about that is his increase from last year. The kid has really worked on his game and is going to get better. Nene's stat line is better, but if you asked me, would I rather have thompson on his salary, or Nene...I'd go with Thompson, his production isn't bad enough to warrant him a cast off or something. Oh and in Jan/Feb he's averaging like 15-10. Which is essentially Nene.

Smith is definitely a 3...and he can play PF in small ball lineups. He is also worth the max in my eyes. He could be the second best player on a contender. I do agree that he isn't going to get much better, but with coaching and an elite PG to play with...he could definitely improve.

No he's an undersized stretch 4 who can't shoot but can play 3 if you want to be a treadmill team. 2nd best player on a contender? Are you insane? He's like a defensive version of Gallinari, not a bad guy to have on your team so long as you limit him to being the 3rd/4th option. Right now, I'd say Teague is a better PG than Wall, slightly, at least offensively, but Wall can surpass him. Smith's problem is that he doesn't listen well, he should be playing in the paint at all times, when he gets baited into taking jumpshots is when he fails miserably. If he were a bit more....competent than I could see him amending his ways. But alas, I can't.

Why in the world would be want to ship off Nene? He is our best player and is locked in at under max money for the next 4 years.

I don't want to ship off Nene. Nene is slightly overpaid but Smith at like 13 mil is overpaid as well. You can't have two quasi-PFs who are overpaid on your roster. At least Nene brings stability to the roster and competent team play. The only reason to make the trade is you think Nene can't stay healthy (Which is a valid concern, but he's held up well so far, and it is my hope we get two more solid seasons out of him).

how in the world is Josh Smith inefficient? The guy is a do it all SF. He scores at a .46% efficiency (which is decent for that position) and he rebounds well and passes well. He is also a pretty good versatile defender who can defend on the perimeter and on the block. He has the potential to average 20-10-4 for us and he is only 27.

No, he's not a SF no matter how many times you say he is. ATL plays Horford at the 5 and Josh at the 4. He gets spot minutes at the 3 but for the most part he is a 4. He also has a TS of 49.%% this year, which is below average (how's that for efficiency?). His usage rate is at nearly 27% which is pretty ****ing high. His Ortg is also 96 which is bad as well. He's a 6'9, athletic Jordan Crawford. His game isn't conducive to building a contender...especially at the price he wants. People who like Josh Smith prolly like Rudy Gay as well, they get in love with the highlight reel stats but don't take a look at what the numbers say.

[Going Commando]

Josh Smith is at least better than Rudy Gay because he's a top notch defender.

The problem is he's a bad offensive player. You can't pay max money to a bad offensive player IMO. I agree, having a player like him command a huge salary is not conducive to building a contender. He's not a great team player and he doesn't have a home on offense. His faceup game is just alright, he is not a good shooter, he doesn't have a good back to basket game.

That's why ATL is prepared to let him walk but they'll hold on to Horford.

[RonArtest15]

Irving has a chance to be the best point guard in the NBA if he has some decent pieces around him. Cant say the same for Wall. Wall is more of a passer, but Until John develops a jumpshot, id pick Kyrie.

Best PG in the NBA? How?

Let me ask you...even in Gilbert Arenas' prime, would you have considered him at ANY POINT in his career to be the best at his position?

I just think that Irving, for as good as he is, is not a type of player that you use to facilitate an offense. He IS the offense - and there is nothing wrong with that. However, he's more of a scoring guard in the Gilbert Arenas mold than being more of a guy in the mold of a Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo.

Just my .02

[Gator Bait]

He's played the 4 position for the last 6 years. He CAN play the 3, but would you want him to? He's a career .288% shooter from 3 point land, that is BAD.

first of all...if you are going to use a stats argument...you'd be more credible to use recent stats rather than career stats. Players do improve shooting over time. Josh is shooting 35% from behind the arc this year and he has also improved his midrange game as well. Next....he can definitely play the three...has the athletic ability and it would be his obvious position on the Wizards.

Nene is better than Thompson right now, that is obvious, but look at thompson's stat line: Per 36: 13-10-1.5-1-1, on 53% TS and on 17% usage. The best part about that is his increase from last year. The kid has really worked on his game and is going to get better. Nene's stat line is better, but if you asked me, would I rather have thompson on his salary, or Nene...I'd go with Thompson, his production isn't bad enough to warrant him a cast off or something. Oh and in Jan/Feb he's averaging like 15-10. Which is essentially Nene.

the problem here is you are looking at stat lines to dictate who is a better player. Nene is a great passer and very good defender, which doesn't figure into your stats. He is just a flat out better player. This all stems from you apparently thinking the Wizards don't have a much better roster than Cleveland (and we do)

No he's an undersized stretch 4 who can't shoot but can play 3 if you want to be a treadmill team.

can't shoot? He's no Kevin Durant, but he's no John Wall either....he's a good enough shooter to get by and has serious athletic ability and size to get to the rim (which is what I'd want from him anyway)

2nd best player on a contender? Are you insane? He's like a defensive version of Gallinari, not a bad guy to have on your team so long as you limit him to being the 3rd/4th option.

he's definitely the 2nd best player on a contender. The Hawks have been making the playoffs every year with him being the 2nd best player on their team. You put him on a team that is good inside (Nene), has a good shooter to stretch the floor (Beal), and a good point guard (Wall)....he is going to take his game to the next level.

I must not be understanding your comparison to Gallonari (a one dimensional player) Josh Smith is the epitome of a multi-dimensional player.

Right now, I'd say Teague is a better PG than Wall, slightly, at least offensively, but Wall can surpass him

Teague is not better than Wall....I should have just stopped right there.

.

Smith's problem is that he doesn't listen well, he should be playing in the paint at all times, when he gets baited into taking jumpshots is when he fails miserably. If he were a bit more....competent than I could see him amending his ways. But alas, I can't

.

this is the only valid argument you have. He can be an undisciplined player (but I wouldn't call him a cancer). I don't think Wittman is a good coach at all, so hopefully we'd get a new competent coach come in who can get Smith on board (along with the rest of the team.

I don't want to ship off Nene. Nene is slightly overpaid but Smith at like 13 mil is overpaid as well. You can't have two quasi-PFs who are overpaid on your roster. At least Nene brings stability to the roster and competent team play. The only reason to make the trade is you think Nene can't stay healthy (Which is a valid concern, but he's held up well so far, and it is my hope we get two more solid seasons out of him).

Nene is a big...he can play C or PF. Smith is a 3/4 hybrid...can play both. They are no where near the same player. Nene is not over-payed for the level of play he brings, but as you pointed out, if he can't stay healthy...he obviously isn't worth the money.

No, he's not a SF no matter how many times you say he is. ATL plays Horford at the 5 and Josh at the 4. He gets spot minutes at the 3 but for the most part he is a 4. He also has a TS of 49.%% this year, which is below average (how's that for efficiency?).

His usage rate is at nearly 27% which is pretty ****ing high. His Ortg is also 96 which is bad as well. He's a 6'9, athletic Jordan Crawford. His game isn't conducive to building a contender...especially at the price he wants. People who like Josh Smith prolly like Rudy Gay as well, they get in love with the highlight reel stats but don't take a look at what the numbers say.

What position does LeBron James play? answer....he plays the 3 and the 4....Josh smith is the same. Just because ATL played him primarily at the 4 doesn't mean he can't play primarily at the 4 for us. You prove my Favorited point in this portion of your argument though. You are very similar to many other people on this board....who look up box scores and stats (don't watch the games) and think you are a subject matter expert when it comes to basketball. I watch games, I've coached, I've played....I know the game of basketball. Both Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are good players. They are large 3s who can slash and get into the paint to score. That is what efficient scoring is. The reason Josh has a "low" TS%...which it really isn't that low....is because he is a very bad free throw shooter. Brenden Haywood is living proof that a shooting coach can completely turn around a free throw percentage. I could teach a dog how to shoot a free throw....it's all about muscle memory and consistency. It can be fixed.

so you continue to look at numbers, and I'll continue to watch the games and decide who is good and who isn't that way.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 03:43 PM ----------

Josh Smith is at least better than Rudy Gay because he's a top notch defender.

The problem is he's a bad offensive player. You can't pay max money to a bad offensive player IMO. I agree, having a player like him command a huge salary is not conducive to building a contender. He's not a great team player and he doesn't have a home on offense. His faceup game is just alright, he is not a good shooter, he doesn't have a good back to basket game.

That's why ATL is prepared to let him walk but they'll hold on to Horford.

ATL is letting him walk because they are rebuilding a midmarket team. They aren't satisfied with being the 4 seed every year...so they shook things up. They traded Joe Johnson, and now they are going to part with Josh (in hopes to get to the next level)

I'm still not sure how you can call the guy inefficient or bad on offense. He averages almost 20ppg and has a pretty good shooting %.

[Going Commando]

Shabazz is the best perimeter player in the class IMO. It's not as clear cut as the past three drafts where Wall, Irving, and Beal were obviously the top perimeter players IMO. McLemore is pretty close to Shabazz and Marcus Smart lurks in third place. But all in all, I think, Shabazz is the best perimeter player in the class.

If we were to draft Shabazz, it would mean that we got the best perimeter player in the class 3 of the past 4 years.

One of the misconceptions I think draftniks make is that you're not really drafting Shabazz to compete with the LeBrons or Durants or Melos of the world. Shabazz is 19 and those guys will be old by the time he hits his prime. You're drafting him to compete with the guys around the same class as him.

So if we get him, it'll mean we hogged a ton of talent on the perimeter. By the time Wall, Beal, and Shabazz would hit their prime at 26 or 27, we'd have three of the best perimeter players in the league. That should be enough to contend with.

Is that a balanced team building approach though? Should we go for a guy with lesser upside if he's a big to try and balance out the roster more? I don't know, I think you probably have to go BPA picking as high as we will.

Anyways, I like all of the talk that has Chad Ford having guys like Bennett, McLemore, and Smart climbing into the top spots while the previous cream of the class Noel, Zeller, and Shabazz is "falling." It means we're more likely to have one of them fall to us.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 04:47 PM ----------

I'm having an argument on RealGM about Shabazz vs. Otto Porter. I'm arguing that Shabazz is better than Porter and a couple of guys are arguing that Porter is ahead of Shabazz. To me this seems obviously ridiculous and Shabazz is clearly a better prospect than Porter, and further, it's not really that close. One month ago, I think there would have been universal agreement for my side. What happened to Shabazz and Porter in a month?

Thoughts?

[SuperBash]

I'm pretty pumped to see Beal in the Rising Stars challenge. NBA All Star weekend is usually pretty good. MLB's All Star festivities are still my favorite out of all the four major sports, though.

[nuposse87]

What position does LeBron James play? answer....he plays the 3 and the 4....Josh smith is the same. Just because ATL played him primarily at the 4 doesn't mean he can't play primarily at the 4 for us.

Josh Smith is a VERY poor man's LBJ. To even mention him in some sort of analogous fashion proves the incompetence of your argument.

You prove my Favorited point in this portion of your argument though. You are very similar to many other people on this board....who look up box scores and stats (don't watch the games) and think you are a subject matter expert when it comes to basketball.

I've watched 90% of the wizards games since Jordan was on the team, I watch most any ESPN/NBA TV/TNT and playoff game when I get a chance. I've seen a sufficiently large sample size of the games themselves. You aren't seeing anything I'm not seeing. Your eyes are more than likely not better than mine. You've coached? Who gives a damn if you've coached if you think Rudy Gay and Josh Smith are efficient players. That just means you are terrible at interpreting stats within their context. Your arguments are entirely subjective. Saying Player X is "good" doesn't make him good. Especially when the futility of ATL and the stats say otherwise

I watch games, I've coached, I've played....I know the game of basketball. Both Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are good players. They are large 3s who can slash and get into the paint to score. That is what efficient scoring is. The reason Josh has a "low" TS%...which it really isn't that low....is because he is a very bad free throw shooter. Brenden Haywood is living proof that a shooting coach can completely turn around a free throw percentage. I could teach a dog how to shoot a free throw....it's all about muscle memory and consistency. It can be fixed.

Josh Smith is a tweener, Rudy Gay is a hyper athletic 3 who could never become efficient. Slashing and getting to the paint mean **** when you can't convert. And FTs absolutely do matter, if he can't convert, he's a liability offensively, YOU should know this, YOU have coached. He's a career 66% FT shooter, and actually gotten WORSE over the past two years.

so you continue to look at numbers, and I'll continue to watch the games and decide who is good and who isn't that way.

I'll continue to look at the numbers AND watch the games. You're trying to make sense out of the senseless. Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are not efficient players. Do they have some utility? Absolutely, but not at their asking price. If he could be had for like...7-8 mil a year, then yes, he is worth it...but lord knows there is some stupid GM that'll give him what he wants. And then I remember who runs the show here in DC.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 05:09 PM ----------

[/color]I'm having an argument on RealGM about Shabazz vs. Otto Porter. I'm arguing that Shabazz is better than Porter and a couple of guys are arguing that Porter is ahead of Shabazz. To me this seems obviously ridiculous and Shabazz is clearly a better prospect than Porter, and further, it's not really that close. One month ago, I think there would have been universal agreement for my side. What happened to Shabazz and Porter in a month?

Thoughts?

Shabazz is still the better prospect IMO, but I could see a rationale in taking Porter. It also depends on value. Shabazz isn't playing like a number 1 overall pick (not to say he's playing bad). Porter is hitting his stride though. I think Porter at like...8 is better value then Shabazz at 2. Say for instance we land the number 2 pick, and we could ascertain the number 7/11 (depending on how PHX ends up) by trading back while giving up a player (say seraphin). Who would you rather have:

Shabazz+Seraphin

or

Porter+Austin (beginning to like his game as of late)

Although it might be for moot if we go in the direction of Noel.

[SuperBash]

Giving a max deal to Josh Smith would be foolish. Some team is going to do it for sure tho.

[Gator Bait]

Josh Smith is a VERY poor man's LBJ. To even mention him in some sort of analogous fashion proves the incompetence of your argument.

your reading comprehension sucks. The only comparison I made between LeBron and Josh was their size...and that was spot on.

I've watched 90% of the wizards games since Jordan was on the team, I watch most any ESPN/NBA TV/TNT and playoff game when I get a chance. I've seen a sufficiently large sample size of the games themselves. You aren't seeing anything I'm not seeing. Your eyes are more than likely not better than mine. You've coached? Who gives a damn if you've coached if you think Rudy Gay and Josh Smith are efficient players. That just means you are terrible at interpreting stats within their context. Your arguments are entirely subjective. Saying Player X is "good" doesn't make him good. Especially when the futility of ATL and the stats say otherwise

I find it hard to believe you've watched 90% of all wizards games since Jordan...but that's another argument. I've I stated before...I go to a lot of games (both college and pros) you see a lot more when you are at the game. Not to mention my girlfriend could watch a million basketball games, but that doesn't mean she would know what the **** she is talking about when it comes to the sport. You can watch all you want, but that doesn't make you a subject matter expert.

Josh Smith is a tweener, Rudy Gay is a hyper athletic 3 who could never become efficient. Slashing and getting to the paint mean **** when you can't convert. And FTs absolutely do matter, if he can't convert, he's a liability offensively, YOU should know this, YOU have coached. He's a career 66% FT shooter, and actually gotten WORSE over the past two years.

Smith isn't a tweener....he is a legit 3 that can also play 4. he is a much better fit at 3 because of his quickness, athleticism, and size. I never called Rudy Gay efficient...I said he was a good player, and he is. 66% ft. shooter is bad, but as I said before (you must have missed it) is that ft shooting can be improved with coaching.

I don't love to have a guy who can't shoot free throws..but if they are dominate at other things like Defense, rebounding, passing, and also a pretty good scorer....I can get over that.

I'll continue to look at the numbers AND watch the games. You're trying to make sense out of the senseless. Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are not efficient players. Do they have some utility? Absolutely, but not at their asking price. If he could be had for like...7-8 mil a year, then yes, he is worth it...but lord knows there is some stupid GM that'll give him what he wants. And then I remember who runs the show here in DC.

again...I never called Gay an efficient player, but he is elite at his position.

you aren't getting a guy like josh Smith for 8 million a year....players like him make at least 12 million a year.

Shabazz isn't playing like a number 1 overall pick

Within the system at UCLA, Shabazz is definitely playing like a #1 over all pick....it's hard to stick out there with the system they play in. Same actually goes for G'town...that's why Greg Monroe and Roy Hibbert are both better pros than college players. Same will likely go for Otto Porter. As far as UCLA comparison....look at Russell Westbrook in college compared to now in the NBA....he is a much better NBA player.

Although it might be for moot if we go in the direction of Noel.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 07:05 PM ----------

Giving a max deal to Josh Smith would be foolish. Some team is going to do it for sure tho.

not if you already have a few pieces together like we do. The Wizards with Josh Smith are contenders in the NBA next year.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 07:05 PM ----------

Josh would add between 15-20 points per game; he adds another good defender to an already elite defensive team.

[Going Commando]

Josh Smith is far too expensive for what he brings to the table.

This team can not afford to break the luxury tax barrier before it's in the midst of contending with Wall and Beal. They need to make sure they've got the books cleared off for when Wall and Beal are due their second contracts.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I'm having an argument on RealGM about Shabazz vs. Otto Porter. I'm arguing that Shabazz is better than Porter and a couple of guys are arguing that Porter is ahead of Shabazz. To me this seems obviously ridiculous and Shabazz is clearly a better prospect than Porter, and further, it's not really that close. One month ago, I think there would have been universal agreement for my side. What happened to Shabazz and Porter in a month?

Thoughts?

Basically, Porter has elevated his game over the last month. I'm not saying that Porter is a better prospect than Muhammad but his overall game is more well rounded.

Porter is better in every category other than scoring average...and that can be explained by the fact that Muhammad takes more shots.

Edit: I do think Muhammad's a better prospect...mainly because he's a better one on one player.

Edited February 16, 2013 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

Basically, Porter has elevated his game over the last month. I'm not saying that Porter is a better prospect than Muhammad but his overall game is more well rounded.

Porter is better in every category other than scoring average...and that can be explained by the fact that Muhammad takes more shots.

Edit: I do think Muhammad's a better prospect...mainly because he's a better one on one player.

Fair enough. Porter is undoubtedly a better passer and rebounder and he's taller. He'll always be taller than Shabazz and I think he'll probably always be a better passer and rebounder than Shabazz.

But I think Muhammad is a better athlete and scorer and that's the main advantage for me. He's got more of that star player make up to him whereas I see Porter as being a Tayshaun Prince/Nic Batum like role player. Good player and worth a lotto pick for sure. But I wouldn't take him over Shabazz. I think Shabazz can be a special scorer like Manu. Maybe even a little Joe Johnson in his game when you consider his size and his tendency to want to post up and score with his back to the basket.

I think Shabazz's body is also more NBA ready. Muhammad is a year younger and he's still pretty raw, but I could see him developing and contributing more quickly than Porter.

[shuler74]

I like this guy for the wiz, he can flat out play plus we need a SF....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oekBTHJOL4

Edited February 16, 2013 by shuler74