The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

If we promised Beal we wouldn't trade him, then we definitely shouldn't trade him.  I believe a front office should keep their word when they make those kinds of promises.  They need to deal with their players in good faith.

 

If we didn't promise him that, then Beal should only be dealt for a Godfather type offer.

[RonArtest15]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If we promised Beal we wouldn't trade him, then we definitely shouldn't trade him.  I believe a front office should keep their word when they make those kinds of promises.  They need to deal with their players in good faith.

 

If we didn't promise him that, then Beal should only be dealt for a Godfather type offer.

 

If he rejects the 3/111, I think the team should explore moving him.  Though Beal could gamble on himself this year and shoot for the all-NBA to get the super-max w/ the Wizards.  However, seeing what happened with Gil Arenas after getting the big contract after injury, I'd have to think that the team would tread lightly. 

 

We've talked about it before, but I think Beal and his camp were 100% behind the media leaks early on in the season.  He's no dummy.  He sees what's going on around the league and knows that there is no way that this team is going to be contending for anything due to their salary cap issues.  By the time they do, he's going to be in his late 20s.  Is it worth sticking around for that? 

 

 

[Going Commando]

I don't understand the relationship that the team has with Beal.  There have been hints that Beal has a much bigger role within the organization than we've suspected.  It wouldn't shock me RA15 if you are right that he orchestrated Ernies departure.

 

If it's true that the FO has been treating him like a partner and promised him they wouldn't trade him, then to go back on that kind of promise and trade him would be very damaging.  That's the kind of thing that could poison future negotiations.

 

But what we get out of that sort of relationship is that it would be a signal that Beal plans to stay.

[StillUnknown]

1 hour ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

If he rejects the 3/111, I think the team should explore moving him.  Though Beal could gamble on himself this year and shoot for the all-NBA to get the super-max w/ the Wizards.  However, seeing what happened with Gil Arenas after getting the big contract after injury, I'd have to think that the team would tread lightly. 

 

We've talked about it before, but I think Beal and his camp were 100% behind the media leaks early on in the season.  He's no dummy.  He sees what's going on around the league and knows that there is no way that this team is going to be contending for anything due to their salary cap issues.  By the time they do, he's going to be in his late 20s.  Is it worth sticking around for that? 

 

 

 

maybe its just me, but I start looking at players a little funny when they re-up in bad situations. I mean I'm happy if it benefits the team, but you're kind of telling me winning isn't most important to you. Felt that way when Kerrigan reupped, Very glad that he did, but why?

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't understand the relationship that the team has with Beal.  There have been hints that Beal has a much bigger role within the organization than we've suspected.  It wouldn't shock me RA15 if you are right that he orchestrated Ernies departure.

 

If it's true that the FO has been treating him like a partner and promised him they wouldn't trade him, then to go back on that kind of promise and trade him would be very damaging.  That's the kind of thing that could poison future negotiations.

 

But what we get out of that sort of relationship is that it would be a signal that Beal plans to stay.

 

this is another reason they need to go ahead and give Shepp the damn title. He cannot make any trade with Beal, even if it ultimately benefits us, on what is essentially an interim tag.

[Destino]

I got the impression Beal really enjoyed himself last season, he might just like being the top dog.  He might not be in a hurry to sign on to someone else’s team.  

[RonArtest15]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

I got the impression Beal really enjoyed himself last season, he might just like being the top dog.  He might not be in a hurry to sign on to someone else’s team.  

 

But will John set his ego aside to let Beal be the true #1 option?  It should be Beal's squad.  He's grown up into a true leader.  Guys like Troy Brown and Thomas Bryant REALLY look up to him.  No knock on Wall, but I can't recall and younger players really taking to him like we're seeing some of the young guys do with Beal.  Beal, is everything you'd want in a franchise player.  There's been a void of leadership on this team since Paul Pierce's departure, but I think Beal "gets" it. 

[Destino]

6 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

But will John set his ego aside to let Beal be the true #1 option?  It should be Beal's squad.  He's grown up into a true leader.  Guys like Troy Brown and Thomas Bryant REALLY look up to him.  No knock on Wall, but I can't recall and younger players really taking to him like we're seeing some of the young guys do with Beal.  Beal, is everything you'd want in a franchise player.  There's been a void of leadership on this team since Paul Pierce's departure, but I think Beal "gets" it. 

If the locker room and the front office is behind Beal, It’s his team.  Wall most likely isn’t playing this season, and he’s got a long way to go before he’s seen as anything more than a bad contract.  Wall is a smart guy, I’m sure he understands that.  

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

But will John set his ego aside to let Beal be the true #1 option?  It should be Beal's squad.  He's grown up into a true leader.  Guys like Troy Brown and Thomas Bryant REALLY look up to him.  No knock on Wall, but I can't recall and younger players really taking to him like we're seeing some of the young guys do with Beal.  Beal, is everything you'd want in a franchise player.  There's been a void of leadership on this team since Paul Pierce's departure, but I think Beal "gets" it. 

 

John isn't an egotistical player and Beal has already been playing first option and leading the team in scoring.  I've never understood the narrative that they can't coexist, it has never been true.

 

John also had his teammates in awe when he was younger.  Including the vets.

 

Beal says all of the right things, and he has a good temperament, but the truth is a big part of leadership is on court dominance.  Leading by example.  And I'm not sure Beal is good enough to be that kind of a leader.  He strikes me as more of a cog in the machine type.

 

But Beal is a no bull**** low maintenance all star who is a stabilizing presence in an organization and a good culture guy.  He'd work well in a strength in numbers type of culture.

[RonArtest15]

9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

John isn't an egotistical player and Beal has already been playing first option and leading the team in scoring.  I've never understood the narrative that they can't coexist, it has never been true.

 

John also had his teammates in awe when he was younger.  Including the vets.

 

Beal says all of the right things, and he has a good temperament, but the truth is a big part of leadership is on court dominance.  Leading by example.  And I'm not sure Beal is good enough to be that kind of a leader.  He strikes me as more of a cog in the machine type.

 

But Beal is a no bull**** low maintenance all star who is a stabilizing presence in an organization and a good culture guy.  He'd work well in a strength in numbers type of culture.

 

Though it’s not completely John’s fault, the organization NEVER provided him with a stable culture, aside from the year PP34 was here, to develop any sort of leadership skills. Yes, 100%, guys are in awe of him, but that’s based more off of his natural talent than his ability to lead. Even with it being an extreme, you can say the same about JR Smith lol.  I can’t recall ANY young players like TB31 and TBJr looking up to Wall the way they do with Beal. I’m a huge Wall believer, but there is a different vibe with the team having Brad as the lead dog. Could be a shift in culture, but it’s just different. 

 

Now, we’re in the midst of a rebuild. There’s a cloud of uncertainty around the status of both Wall/Beal.  If Beal truly wants to be here and see this rebuild through, then a hard decision needs to be made on Wall. It’s not that these two can’t co-exist, but the org will have made their decision as to who the face of the franchise is, and that would be Beal.  

[@DCGoldPants]

11 hours ago, Destino said:

If the locker room and the front office is behind Beal, It’s his team.  Wall most likely isn’t playing this season, and he’s got a long way to go before he’s seen as anything more than a bad contract.  Wall is a smart guy, I’m sure he understands that.  

 

If Beal is here when Wall attempts his comeback. That would be something to watch. We know they seem "good" now. But we'll see what happens when Beal would clearly be the guy in better shape and having had played while Wall watched. Can't be two Batmans....and for a while it felt like we had 2 Robins. 

[StillUnknown]

11 hours ago, Destino said:

If the locker room and the front office is behind Beal, It’s his team.  Wall most likely isn’t playing this season, and he’s got a long way to go before he’s seen as anything more than a bad contract.  Wall is a smart guy, I’m sure he understands that.  

 

Michael Lee and Fred Katz have both talked about the dichotomy of Wall's basketball intellect and how he plays. They both talk about how he is damn near savant like in his recollection of defenses he faced. Despite his clear ability to diagnose an issue, he's lacking in something to make the necessary changes.

[RonArtest15]

4 hours ago, StillUnknown said:

 

Michael Lee and Fred Katz have both talked about the dichotomy of Wall's basketball intellect and how he plays. They both talk about how he is damn near savant like in his recollection of defenses he faced. Despite his clear ability to diagnose an issue, he's lacking in something to make the necessary changes.

 

Hearing this makes me feel even better about what he'll do in his return.  As we've said, the athleticism won't be the same....but if he can channel 30+ year old Jason Kidd (who also had a ridiculously high bball IQ,) his game will age well even with the major leg injuries. 

[StillUnknown]

2 hours ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

Hearing this makes me feel even better about what he'll do in his return.  As we've said, the athleticism won't be the same....but if he can channel 30+ year old Jason Kidd (who also had a ridiculously high bball IQ,) his game will age well even with the major leg injuries. 

 

Game is different now though. Kidd was also much more consistent defensively which added to his value. More than anything else, Wall has to develop a consistent shot. You cant reach certain levels in todays nba being a guard with no shot. Second is his off the ball movement. If he cant embrace that, its gonna be a hard few years. He cant live in todays nba of spacing and movement the same as he was doing before he went out. He's clearly smart enough to realize it, i just hope he's kicked the stubbornness out

[Destino]

1 hour ago, StillUnknown said:

Game is different now though. Kidd was also much more consistent defensively which added to his value. More than anything else, Wall has to develop a consistent shot. You cant reach certain levels in todays nba being a guard with no shot. Second is his off the ball movement. If he cant embrace that, its gonna be a hard few years. He cant live in todays nba of spacing and movement the same as he was doing before he went out. He's clearly smart enough to realize it, i just hope he's kicked the stubbornness out

Agreed.  Inconsistent defense (often absolutely horrible), no off ball movement, and no three point shot are major weaknesses in any guards game.  Unless there is star level play to offset it a guard with those weaknesses wouldn't even get consistent minutes in todays NBA. 

[StillUnknown]

 

it will be interesting to see how long the contract runs. i wanted a fresh face, but whatever. I'll judge him on his own merits

Edited July 19, 2019 by StillUnknown

[CRobi21]

 

"Long term."

 

Maybe we'll get the details next week.

Edited July 19, 2019 by CRobi21

[TradeTheBeal!]

Ernie is gone.

 

Sheppard has shown competence thus far.

 

I choose to be optimistic...

[Renegade7]

Theres really no point in being mad about this, is what it is.  Theres no way I would've believed us staying in house when Ernie got fired.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Renegade7

[RonArtest15]

4 hours ago, StillUnknown said:

 

Game is different now though. Kidd was also much more consistent defensively which added to his value. More than anything else, Wall has to develop a consistent shot. You cant reach certain levels in todays nba being a guard with no shot. Second is his off the ball movement. If he cant embrace that, its gonna be a hard few years. He cant live in todays nba of spacing and movement the same as he was doing before he went out. He's clearly smart enough to realize it, i just hope he's kicked the stubbornness out

 

Kidd didn't become a perennial 35% 3pt threat until he turned 31.  John has had at least one season of doing that, but he needs to be a guy who can consistently make at least 35% of his shots from behind the arc.  If he can do that, everything he does off the ball becomes that much easier.  Plus, it will open things up for everyone on the court if you have guys 1-5 that have proven that they can knock down mid-range/3balls. 

 

The way Wall sees the floor and can pass is VERY similar to Jason Kidd.  Where the difference is between the two guys is in two areas:

 

1.  The ability to limit TOs.  This has been Wall's weakness since day 1.  With diminishing athleticism, maybe.....just maybe, slowing things down will benefit him in this aspect.

 

2.  Playing tough defense.  It's not a skill deficiency, it's more of a "want" than anything.  The team needs Wall to become more engaged and locked in on defense. Simple as that.  I'm not saying giving 110% on each defensive possession, but moving his feet, clogging lanes...giving at least 80-90% effort. 

 

45 minutes ago, CRobi21 said:

 

"Long term."

 

Maybe we'll get the details next week.

 

"More changes to follow...."

 

Hmmm...

 

 

[CRobi21]

 

[StillUnknown]

Katz's last article mentioned they tried to get Mo Cheeks from OKC, but he turned them down. Cavs had a historically bad defense last season, very possible we see the same this year this season

 

[Rocky21]

I think we all knew for a while that Shep was going to be the guy.  I would have preferred a new face / new direction but we all know Washington is the equivalent of NBA purgatory and no one worth a **** would wants their career in the league to be here.

 

Shep has made some moves that seemed like the opposite of EG (read competent) so I’m willing to give the guy a chance. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Tommy Sheppard has instituted a structural change in how the Washington Wizards operate since taking over from Ernie Grunfeld as interim general manager, according to Fred Katz of The Athletic.

 

Sheppard will be unveiled as the permanent general manager of the team on Monday.

 

The Wizards are "significantly more collaborative" under Sheppard than the top-down approach of Grunfeld, with Sheppard receiving more input from members below him on the organization chart.

 

The team are also expected to make further additions within the basketball operations group in the upcoming weeks, according to The Athletic. 

[CrypticVillain]

Just feels like he's using the same exact strategy he's used for the Caps. Any thing is better than that bum Grunfeld, so I'll take it.

[Destino]

I want to see evidence of a culture change.  First one is easy, I want to see if players show up in shape.  This may seem like nothing, but players here have played their way into game shape for years and years.  When they’re traded or sign elsewhere, suddenly they’re in the best shape of their lives.  Baby steps.